: New Apple TV... Anyone interested?


screature
Sep 2nd, 2010, 12:36 PM
To me this is a Meh release... still tied to iTunes and iTunes compatible formats, makes it a no go for me. At least with the old one you could "hack" it with aTV Flash and play VIDEO_TS (VOB) files, mkv files, etc. Without a hard drive I don't see how this new one can be hacked. Too bad, I really didn't expect much and not much was delivered. :(

DA187Suspect
Sep 2nd, 2010, 01:07 PM
I just pre ordered mine today - It's only $100, if I don't like it, I'll just sell it.

johnnyspade
Sep 2nd, 2010, 01:13 PM
I think many will be lured by the price point, though I've seen a few "how big is the hard drive?" posts in various forums which tells me people are a little confused about what it does exactly. I have a 40Gb Apple TV I never use so this new model is not for me but I expect it to see like hotcakes.

Skinner
Sep 2nd, 2010, 01:28 PM
Nope. I like being able to hack mine.

winwintoo
Sep 2nd, 2010, 01:35 PM
I'm thinking of buying one. I live in a seniors' highrise apartment building and often it would be nice to gather in the lounge and watch a movie together. This isn't one of those retirement communities for the filthy rich, we're all low income and we can't afford cable in the common room.

I'm thinking with the Apple TV, I could hook up to the TV down in the lounge and stream first run movies from iTunes.

Or am I one of the folks who doesn't understand what it does. I'm willing to be corrected.

Margaret

screature
Sep 2nd, 2010, 01:49 PM
I'm thinking of buying one. I live in a seniors' highrise apartment building and often it would be nice to gather in the lounge and watch a movie together. This isn't one of those retirement communities for the filthy rich, we're all low income and we can't afford cable in the common room.

I'm thinking with the Apple TV, I could hook up to the TV down in the lounge and stream first run movies from iTunes.

Or am I one of the folks who doesn't understand what it does. I'm willing to be corrected.

Margaret

No you are correct you would be able to do that. :)

i-rui
Sep 2nd, 2010, 02:02 PM
The new ATV HAS to have some sort of memory to run the OS. So i wouldn't rule out hacking it until it's released into the wild and people have a go at it.

I'm really hoping it can be hacked, since it does have a lot of pluses over the old units (which run way too hot - not helped by them being on stand by all the time). Hopefully the new units won't randomly turn itself on like the originals.

At $100 or so it still is an interesting option, if only as a substitute for people who might just want to stream music into a room. It's a similar price point as an airport express, but has loads more entertainment potential (of course missing the router function...but a lot of people don't need that if they only want to stream music)

So, ultimately I'm going to wait and see what happens with the new units. I'm cautiously optimistic.

As a side note how much are used ATVs going to be worth now? It seems they won't get any further updates, and their design is an issue with the heat. But they also still have a couple of things going for it (component and analogue audio connections in addition to HDMI) and the hard drives are not without some use.

dona83
Sep 2nd, 2010, 02:03 PM
I am definitely getting one. I'd rather not be limited to a 160GB HD to store content when my computers have much, much more capacity than that. At $259 it was ehhh... at $119 it's a no brainer. I have a lot of iTunes content I want to get on the big screen. My XBox works great for DivX videos which I stream off my computers so really streaming is not a dirty word for me.

Rps
Sep 2nd, 2010, 02:06 PM
Margaret, I wish to do this as well, but my concern is not so much the cost of the rental but the hit to the monthly internet billing..... I would like to hear from some users after a while to hear it they have had significant spikes in their bills.

If your cost conscious, I would still think Zip.ca on a monthly rental plan for DVDs is about a cheap a way to see new releases as you can find.

klukkluk
Sep 2nd, 2010, 02:07 PM
With Netflix on board, launches in Canada this fall, it is a very interesting option.

We already love our ATV but with Netflix we will say goodbye to commercials forever! yay!

And it won't break the bank to have one in the bedroom as well.

Elric
Sep 2nd, 2010, 02:08 PM
I think I'm going to preorder mine today actually, I like the idea of streaming to and from my other idevices.

Not to mention 99 cent episodes, even if I watch 90 shows in a month (in reality will be around 20), it's still cheaper than digital cable... with no commercials. And no "to watch that show, you need this channel, to get that channel you need this bundle..." screw that.

Dammacx
Sep 2nd, 2010, 02:12 PM
For $100 I think it is great for what it is designed for and I would get one if I didn't already have a Xbox and My Computer a few feet from my main TV anyways. But as a simple way to bring all your computer content to your TV I think it is great. For people who want more they already have a computer or other device hooked up. But for many people this is a great solution. Also the main purpose of this device is for you to easily get your iTunes content to your big screen.The easier they make it for people to do that the more they (people) will consume and the more money they (Apple - and their partners) will make.

I just wonder when they will finally rename iTunes to iMedia or something similar. iTunes has been more than a tunes player for a long time - they should have taken the opportunity with version 10 and the big release of the new Apple TV to jump on a new name so it (the name) makes more sense.

andreww
Sep 2nd, 2010, 03:06 PM
Apple's cost to rent a first run HD movie seems to be several dollars cheaper than Rogers in demand, so I could see picking one up at some point. It may not get used much, but I can see the youtube function being used quite a bit.

jrichardson
Sep 2nd, 2010, 03:30 PM
I like to watch TED talks on my ATV but I'm thinkingof picking up the new ATV, just for fun.

mguertin
Sep 2nd, 2010, 03:50 PM
I don't see myself picking one up. I hate the whole iTunes lockin personally. You can only buy content from iTunes and you can only stream video from iTunes. I don't use iTunes for video management or playback ... it's honestly not well designed for video at all and only being able to stream to the apple TV from iTunes pretty much kills it's usefulness to me. I run Plex on my mac mini's here and am very happy with it.

Rps
Sep 2nd, 2010, 03:51 PM
I like to watch TED talks on my ATV but I'm thinkingof picking up the new ATV, just for fun.

Say, i like to watch TED TALKS as well. I'm thinking of getting an Apple TV unit, how would that work.

DavidH
Sep 2nd, 2010, 03:55 PM
I am going to take a "wait & see" approach due to the fairly restricted amount of TV content that is going to be available.
You heard Steve's "jab" at the networks saying something to the effect "until the others see the light".

I think the new device is definitely on the right track, I just wish the content providers would "come around" to looking at new business models.
At the end of the day, Steve's new device is only as good as the content available from the media producers.

I still may get one just to get my computer content to the TV e.g. photos, home movies, video podcasts, music etc.

DavidH

Elric
Sep 2nd, 2010, 03:59 PM
I don't see myself picking one up. I hate the whole iTunes lockin personally. You can only buy content from iTunes and you can only stream video from iTunes. I don't use iTunes for video management or playback ... it's honestly not well designed for video at all and only being able to stream to the apple TV from iTunes pretty much kills it's usefulness to me. I run Plex on my mac mini's here and am very happy with it.

Yeah, I'm on the other fence, I have tried all the "other" media players, most do something really well, but none do everything like iTunes. I'm quite happy with iTunes features, and Ping is actually a really nice concept, but they need to add some more features. Like last.fm's database of what I've listened to and currently listening to. Allow Indie bands to have access to be followed as well, like "official" artists

Rps
Sep 2nd, 2010, 04:20 PM
Okay, so I'm interested in Apple TV, so here is the question. They have some older models on the Apple site for $169 or is the newer one better. Thoughts......

mguertin
Sep 2nd, 2010, 04:23 PM
Yeah, I'm on the other fence, I have tried all the "other" media players, most do something really well, but none do everything like iTunes. I'm quite happy with iTunes features, and Ping is actually a really nice concept, but they need to add some more features. Like last.fm's database of what I've listened to and currently listening to. Allow Indie bands to have access to be followed as well, like "official" artists

iTunes is good for playing music :D but for video playback for me it falls very much short. Each to their own I suppose. Ping is interesting, but at this point it seems like it's just a big upsell to get users to buy more music from the ITMS.

cap10subtext
Sep 2nd, 2010, 04:34 PM
I don't know if it's the size of it or the price or what but I'm actually psyched about the new Apple TV. Not something I ever even considered before.

There's only a few things I'm wondering and will probably just have to wait and see about once it's released. How well does streaming a video from the other room work? What's Netflix in Canada going to look like on the atv? One thing that might be inconvenient, if you purchase a movie on iTunes, would you have to go do that on your computer in the other room and wait for it to finish downloading before you could watch it? Or could you start streaming right away?

BTW, anyone currently using an HDMI to VGA adapter with the current Apple TV (or does it have HDMI)? I have a vga projector and wondering if this would work...

winwintoo
Sep 2nd, 2010, 04:41 PM
Margaret, I wish to do this as well, but my concern is not so much the cost of the rental but the hit to the monthly internet billing..... I would like to hear from some users after a while to hear it they have had significant spikes in their bills.

If your cost conscious, I would still think Zip.ca on a monthly rental plan for DVDs is about a cheap a way to see new releases as you can find.

Out here in fly-over country, our ISPs don't throttle or charge by usage, and I hope that doesn't change.

Margaret

screature
Sep 2nd, 2010, 04:53 PM
I don't see myself picking one up. I hate the whole iTunes lockin personally. You can only buy content from iTunes and you can only stream video from iTunes. I don't use iTunes for video management or playback ... it's honestly not well designed for video at all and only being able to stream to the apple TV from iTunes pretty much kills it's usefulness to me. I run Plex on my mac mini's here and am very happy with it.

Pretty much exactly my problems with ATV and why I will keep my Mini in the entertainment cabinet for now... I have too much invested in other formats other than what ATV is able to deliver via iTunes...

I would love to be able to sell my Mini and buy an ATV, but I just can't, considering what I already have that the ATV won't play.

Delroy666
Sep 2nd, 2010, 04:54 PM
I don't see any compelling reason to replace my current Apple TVs. In fact, until the new one is hacked to allow Perian to be installed (to play DivX files), I won't even consider it.

I'm curious if Apple is going to push out the new software to the current Apple TVs.

G-Mo
Sep 2nd, 2010, 04:59 PM
I just pre ordered mine today - It's only $100, if I don't like it, I'll just sell it.

It's $119 Canadian.

I'm thinking with the Apple TV, I could hook up to the TV down in the lounge and stream first run movies from iTunes.

Or am I one of the folks who doesn't understand what it does. I'm willing to be corrected.

You will need either Wi-Fi or a wired ethernet high speed internet connection in your lounge.

Delroy666
Sep 2nd, 2010, 05:00 PM
I am definitely getting one. I'd rather not be limited to a 160GB HD to store content when my computers have much, much more capacity than that. At $259 it was ehhh... at $119 it's a no brainer. I have a lot of iTunes content I want to get on the big screen. My XBox works great for DivX videos which I stream off my computers so really streaming is not a dirty word for me.

You were never limited by the size of the hard drive, since you could always stream content from your computers. I don't sync anything to my Apple TVs in fact - those 40GB hard drives are sitting there empty. Everything is streamed from my iMac.

l84toff
Sep 2nd, 2010, 05:01 PM
Okay, so I'm interested in Apple TV, so here is the question. They have some older models on the Apple site for $169 or is the newer one better. Thoughts......

Trying to find this mystical other $169 atv on their site without success. Got a linky for that?

I just picked up their previous version a couple of weeks ago (and yes, I heard the rumors of a new one coming out - sans hard drive, which is actually the reason for my leap) and so far I'm quite happy with it. I like the idea of having storage on board as whenever I add a new movie to iTunes, it will automatically add it to the atv. No streaming needed, which means I don't have to worry about having my laptop open somewhere in the house. Now if I had either a mini or iMac, I might change my mind.

What I really want to know is will airplay work with the older atv? This is a cool feature, although I don't see where it says you can also stream your photos (from an iPhone or iPad)to it.

For now, I'll be sticking with the previous version of atv.

dona83
Sep 2nd, 2010, 05:06 PM
Do a store search for Apple TV. The first link will be for a $119 new Apple TV, the second link will be for the $169 160GB previous Apple TV.

screature
Sep 2nd, 2010, 05:15 PM
I am definitely getting one. I'd rather not be limited to a 160GB HD to store content when my computers have much, much more capacity than that. At $259 it was ehhh... at $119 it's a no brainer. I have a lot of iTunes content I want to get on the big screen. My XBox works great for DivX videos which I stream off my computers so really streaming is not a dirty word for me.

Only if all your current content library can be delivered via iTunes or if you are just starting your collection... I have hundreds of videos that iTunes cant play.

So it is a "no brainier" for me NOT to buy it. ;)

Andrew Pratt
Sep 2nd, 2010, 05:29 PM
I own a 40Gb version and its a work horse for us and given the underwhelming use of iOS I'm not in the hurry to upgrade that I thought that I would be. Assuming they do eventually add an App store for the new version and games etc become available that will change my view. Netflix may change things as well esp. if it isn't offered for the old model...of course if the prices on eBay remain high I'll likely sell mine and move up to the new model....just cuz :)

dona83
Sep 2nd, 2010, 06:04 PM
Only if all your current content library can be delivered via iTunes or if you are just starting your collection... I have hundreds of videos that iTunes cant play.

So it is a "no brainier" for me NOT to buy it. ;)

Well a no brainer for me at least... I have over 80GB of stuff on my iTunes and it's only growing. In the past 5 years I've purchased about 3,000 items from the iTunes Store.

Leprechaune
Sep 2nd, 2010, 06:22 PM
I pre-ordered 2 of them already. One for living room and one for bedroom. I'll be giving my old ATV to my parents. And I'd love to buy one of these for everyone I know!

Why?

I hated paying $1000 annually to a cable or dish company only to be flipping through 100 channels and turning the TV off after finding only reruns or nothing to watch when I wanted to watch something.

So I cancelled my dish and picked up an ATV and have never been happier!

I need HighSpeed internet for many other reasons so it's not an extra expense.

720p looks fine on my 52" TV and I'd have to say it's hard to notice a difference between it and the 1080 that I got on my dish. I'm just one of those people who do not see value in the BlueRay revolution.

So ATV has basically given me everything I ever wanted in video entertainment:
1) No commercials
2) No time restrictions (What what I want when I want)
3) No subscription fee - I only pay for what I want to watch (Not some BS bundle of stuff I don't care about)
4) I can play any digital content that I own from my computer (Not rocket science to convert anything that may not be supported IF I were to ever watch content that was not purchased from iTunes)
5) Shows that I don't want to buy but may want to watch can now be cheaply rented!
6) My TV is now the best picture frame in my home
7) I get local news via PodCast
... The list goes on.

I'm left wondering why anyone with a dish or cable bill would not just throw their receiver out the window and pick one of these up.

I will admit that the only thing missing is live events like awards shows and sporting events. BUT, I'm tired of awards shows. So All I need is a way to get live sports events.

Anyone have a suggestion for that? Then I would want nothing more from my entertainment situation.

Rps
Sep 2nd, 2010, 06:24 PM
Trying to find this mystical other $169 atv on their site without success. Got a linky for that?

Well I just checked the Apple Canada site and they appear to be gone [ they were in the clearance section ] however the U.S. still has them here is the site:

Apple TV with 160GB drive - Apple Store (U.S.) (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB189LL/A?mco=MTg5MTc5OTY)

Question on Netflix, since Netflix is on-line delivery I wonder why I can't order on line films from them but have to wait for the Canadian site.........?

Jugger Grimrodd
Sep 2nd, 2010, 06:33 PM
I think if you are willing to live within the Apple "walled garden" you will be pleased with the new AppleTV.

I am very excited. I am perfectly willing to drink the Kool-Aid and give Apple my cable money. I have two AppleTV's and they have been a constant source of greif. Steve Jobs's comments about what people want was dead on (well, it's what I want).

I think the new version will be peppy (A4 processor and flash memory and iOS 4), it better be, the time it takes to start watching a movie is horrible. The AirPlay will enable room to room viewing. The price point is so low, I can't afford not to try it. No syncing - syncing sucks.

I think it's the start of something bigger. They may realease a new iOS 4 GUI, you can bet Game Center will be there, perhaps they will still announce cloud/Time Capsule storage at some point.

I found it extremely interesting that there was little or no mention of the Remote App. Maybe I am overly optimistic to hope that the reason for this is a new GUI in the near future.

Zoweeguy
Sep 2nd, 2010, 06:38 PM
I pre-ordered mine about 2 seconds after watching the event.
This is exactly what I want. I do not have cable - I refuse to pay for it just to watch a handful of shows.
And I am sick of going to Blockbuster to rent a movie just to find that there aren't any copies of what I want
to watch available.
All the movies that I want to keep, I buy on Blu-ray so I will just be using this to rent content.

Lawrence
Sep 2nd, 2010, 06:39 PM
I'll be using my old Mac Mini as a T.V. companion in the future,
Anyone noticed the refurbished Apple T.V.'s are just flying off the shelf lately?

Rps
Sep 2nd, 2010, 06:49 PM
Well I guess my mind has been made up. I've just read that the older Apple TV will not be Netflix compatible... that's a deal breaker for me. So, $119 here I come.

Source: ipdnn:

The features of the new Apple TV will not carry over to older models, an Apple spokesperson clarifies. No software update to enable the options is planned, although the representative does comment that all current features should continue to work. This includes buying movies and TV shows, something missing from the latest firmware, since the matching hardware has no permanent storage.

The lack of an update means that Netflix rentals will not be watchable on older set-tops, for instance, and that videos will not be streamable via AirPlay. People may also be unable to watch 99-cent TV rentals, though this is unconfirmed. Movie rentals should remain an option.

On a tangential note, the same spokesperson also remarks that contrary to appearances, the new iPod nano does not run iOS. The firmware is simply meant to resemble iOS, and in fact behaves very different in some circumstances. The main limitation is an inability to load third-party apps.



Read more: New features will not apply to older Apple TVs | iPodNN (http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/10/09/02/nano.also.not.an.ios.device.spokesman.says/#ixzz0yPoQfwo9)

winwintoo
Sep 2nd, 2010, 06:55 PM
You will need either Wi-Fi or a wired ethernet high speed internet connection in your lounge.

We have Hi-speed wifi on the main floor so we should be ok. I was thinking about running movies on my PowerBook but there's the whole problem of sound.

Margaret

groovetube
Sep 2nd, 2010, 07:27 PM
well I guess if you paid 280 bucks for an apple tv lately you'd be pissed. Or a few fine since you can hack it etc.

I'll keep the one I bought a while back I guess and see how this one plays out.

pcronin
Sep 2nd, 2010, 07:43 PM
And I am sick of going to Blockbuster to rent a movie just to find that there aren't any copies of what I want
to watch available.

That's ok, blockbuster is going bankrupt this fall anyway ;)

if it wasn't stuck with itunes, I'd give it a shot. When the homebrew kids get a nice little program to flash and extent to make use of UPnP media servers the new appletv is going to be *the* goto product (for people with 720p top end on the TV anyway)

Lawrence
Sep 3rd, 2010, 04:51 AM
Well I just checked the Apple Canada site and they appear to be gone [ they were in the clearance section ] however the U.S. still has them here is the site:

Apple TV with 160GB drive - Apple Store (U.S.) (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB189LL/A?mco=MTg5MTc5OTY)

Question on Netflix, since Netflix is on-line delivery I wonder why I can't order on line films from them but have to wait for the Canadian site.........?

They are still listed for sale on the Apple Canada website here:

Apple TV with 160GB drive (http://store.apple.com/ca/product/MB189LL/A?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY)

chas_m
Sep 3rd, 2010, 05:13 AM
For me, this is the update I thought was coming two years ago.

I had a 40GB and loved it, but sold it when I moved, reasoning that a new (hardware) model would be out soon (and thinking it would be a dedicated iTunes portal, which doesn't bother me at all). Of course I was wrong and they just upgraded the software, but I never got another one because our BC apt came with a SD tv.

With this device, I now have the option of dropping my cable tv entirely (and just keeping the high-speed internet). I really find that I only watch seven shows regularly; two on Comedy Network, two on Cartoon Network, two on MSNBC and The National. Three of these shows are also available in full as podcasts, which cost nothing.

Assuming you could get the remaining four for either 99 each OR that the "season pass" for $10/month as you can now, this would lower my cable bill dramatically.

Netflix, YouTube et al are just icing on the cake. Now I finally have a way to justify buying an HDTV up here.

l84toff
Sep 3rd, 2010, 05:53 AM
Anyone know what their return policy is like. Just bought the older version a couple of weeks ago, if that. Of course it's now $169 new vs $219 refurbished last week.

MacUnited
Sep 3rd, 2010, 07:25 AM
ever since I had the ability to stream my movies, music, and photos from my MBP to the TV with the Playstation 3, in HD. I kinda lost interest in the AppleTV. Oh and did I mention I can play games with it too? :D

iheartmac
Sep 3rd, 2010, 08:28 AM
I just sold my 40gb Apple TV assuming they'd be announcing this new one and pre-ordered after the stream. When I unplugged the old unit to put back in it's box to sell (I keep all of my boxes) it was soooooo hot. I couldn't believe how much heat was coming off of it. I'm looking forward to a smaller, cooler and quiet unit.

Heart
Sep 3rd, 2010, 09:06 AM
On order and can't wait, really for the streaming but the Netflix will be nice.

Benito
Sep 3rd, 2010, 09:15 AM
I like the idea of being able to stream media from either of our MBP's or iPhone's. I'd love to be able to see slide shows of our trips on our TV and be able to rent movies/TV shows and watch them on demand. However, I'd need to get a new HD TV. My current rear projection LCD Sony is lacking a HDMI input.:(

MannyP Design
Sep 3rd, 2010, 09:16 AM
ever since I had the ability to stream my movies, music, and photos from my MBP to the TV with the Playstation 3, in HD. I kinda lost interest in the AppleTV. Oh and did I mention I can play games with it too? :D

I'm pretty much in the same boat. The new AppleTV is a big Meh for me.

mc3251
Sep 3rd, 2010, 09:32 AM
does the fact that the new Apple TV only does 720p cause a concern for people? Also, I read in the Globe that the 99c tv episodes is only in the US.

Jmain
Sep 3rd, 2010, 09:34 AM
Anyone know if we will have the same Content as the US in the Movie and TV rental? The selection in the Canadian Itunes store prior to this announcement has sucked so I never did bother Renting Movies from itunes before.

However, We live out in the boonies and our Local Movie store has no selection and it would be easier to Download Movies from Itunes for renting.

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 09:56 AM
That's ok, blockbuster is going bankrupt this fall anyway ;)

if it wasn't stuck with itunes, I'd give it a shot. When the homebrew kids get a nice little program to flash and extent to make use of UPnP media servers the new appletv is going to be *the* goto product (for people with 720p top end on the TV anyway)

What? How are they going to do that? No USB, no hard drive. Sure I suppose there will be firmware updates made available from Apple... But who's going to want to risk turning the thing into a brick with a hack to the firmware.

darkscot
Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:07 AM
it's got USB
http://www.computerworld.com/common/images/site/features/2010/09/AppleTV.jpg

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:19 AM
it's got USB
http://www.computerworld.com/common/images/site/features/2010/09/AppleTV.jpg

:o Totally my bad, some how I missed that. At any rate I still can't imagine hacking the firmware with the potential of turning the thing into a brick... but maybe that is just me.

mc3251
Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:22 AM
I was just on the iTunes store and I certainly don't see any 99cent TV

Rps
Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:41 AM
I was just on the iTunes store and I certainly don't see any 99cent TV

I think that the 99 cent TV is, currently, U.S. only.

mc3251
Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:45 AM
right, which is what I thought

Stephanie
Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:54 AM
:o Totally my bad, some how I missed that. At any rate I still can't imagine hacking the firmware with the potential of turning the thing into a brick... but maybe that is just me.

If it's running some version of iOS then I figure the hacking will be along the lines of trying to JailBreak the thing. Still, I can't wait to get my hands on one so I can open it up and look at what's inside. I figure there has to be at least some flash storage in there for the OS and maybe a bit more...

The thing with renting & streaming, if you can watch a show or movie over and over during a 48hour period, it just doesn't make sense to me that you'd be streaming it every single time you want to watch it.

The only other alternative I can think of is that the new ATV is tied to your computer & iTunes such that when you rent something, it goes onto your computer then streams from the computer to the ATV, so you can rewatch it for 48 hours without having to redownload it over and over.

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 11:07 AM
If it's running some version of iOS then I figure the hacking will be along the lines of trying to JailBreak the thing. Still, I can't wait to get my hands on one so I can open it up and look at what's inside. I figure there has to be at least some flash storage in there for the OS and maybe a bit more...

The thing with renting & streaming, if you can watch a show or movie over and over during a 48hour period, it just doesn't make sense to me that you'd be streaming it every single time you want to watch it.

The only other alternative I can think of is that the new ATV is tied to your computer & iTunes such that when you rent something, it goes onto your computer then streams from the computer to the ATV, so you can rewatch it for 48 hours without having to redownload it over and over.

This is what I would presume to be the case.

dona83
Sep 3rd, 2010, 11:58 AM
With XBox streaming rentals, it does not save anything to the hard drive, it streams every time you want to watch it. With download rentals, it downloads the entire movie to the hard drive for you to watch once or many times. Those 1080p files are huge though, 10GB per movie. Takes a few hours to download.

You will have the option of renting a movie through iTunes on your computer which will download the movie to your hard drive, then playing it on the Apple TV.

fyrefly
Sep 3rd, 2010, 12:08 PM
Anyone know what their return policy is like. Just bought the older version a couple of weeks ago, if that. Of course it's now $169 new vs $219 refurbished last week.

Apple usually has a 14-day return policy. Has it been more than 14 days? I'd still certainly call Apple, and I'd bet that they'll let you return your old model and get the new one on order, or give you the price difference at least.

:o Totally my bad, some how I missed that. At any rate I still can't imagine hacking the firmware with the potential of turning the thing into a brick... but maybe that is just me.

I get what you're saying but people hack the firmware of their $700-800 iPhones with nary a question. The risks with the $120 TV are a little less, IMHO (at least financially).

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 12:27 PM
Apple usually has a 14-day return policy. Has it been more than 14 days? I'd still certainly call Apple, and I'd bet that they'll let you return your old model and get the new one on order, or give you the price difference at least.



I get what you're saying but people hack the firmware of their $700-800 iPhones with nary a question. The risks with the $120 TV are a little less, IMHO (at least financially).

Yeah I know... I think they're nuts. ;)

fyrefly
Sep 3rd, 2010, 12:52 PM
The New TV has 16GB of on board storage? Or is MacWorld just smoking something? Would be amazing if it had that storage to queue up downloads, and alleviate the "redownload every time you wanna re-watching something" problem.

Apple 16GB Apple TV (2G, late 2010) Video Player Product Information | Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/reviews/product/664585/review/16gb_apple_tv_2g_late_2010.html)

mguertin
Sep 3rd, 2010, 01:07 PM
I think they're smoking crack.

Rps
Sep 3rd, 2010, 02:43 PM
Okay, I'm a newbie here so be gentle. I'm waiting until I get the billing schedule from Netflix Canada but I'm buying the new Apple TV. However I wish to hook it up to me LG monitor [ it has a jack out for sound ] so I'm thinking AppleTV using HDMI cable to the LG, then plug in my powered speaker set to the monitor and presto..... video and sound. Or.....does the Apple TV really mean I must hook up to a TV, which has sound built in........?

JumboJones
Sep 3rd, 2010, 03:52 PM
AppleTV's back in stock and for $139, so conflicted...I don't want to buy it if they don't plan on updating it going forward.

dona83
Sep 3rd, 2010, 04:03 PM
Which is why they're only $139.

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 04:25 PM
AppleTV's back in stock and for $139, so conflicted...I don't want to buy it if they don't plan on updating it going forward.

Just a few questions...

Does the old ATV do what you need it to do now? If yes +1. Do you want to hack it ala aTV Flash so you can play additional formats? +1. Do you want not to be tied down to iTunes? +1. Do you want the device to have it's own storage? +1 Being that the new ATV is so cheap are you willing to pay a small premium (to get the old one) in order to get what you really want/need now and not worry about what you may or may not be missing out on in an indeterminate future? +1 Do you want the streaming from other iDevices? -1 Do you want NetFlix? -1. Do you not care that the device has no internal storage? -1 Being that the new ATV is so cheap are you willing to save a few bucks to forgo what your really want/need now so as to not be missing out on something that may or may not happen in an indeterminate future? -1.

A higher positive score means you should buy the old ATV... A higher negative score means you should buy the new ATV. You do the math and decide for yourself. ;)

Oh... One additional question, Does the new ATV do everything that you hoped the ATV would ever do? No math necessary, just buy the new one. ;)

Lawrence
Sep 3rd, 2010, 04:59 PM
AppleTV's back in stock and for $139, so conflicted...I don't want to buy it if they don't plan on updating it going forward.

That's the "Refurbished Price" by the way,
I bought one recently at the full price of $169. for the 160 gb hard drive version.

Lawrence
Sep 3rd, 2010, 05:04 PM
With XBox streaming rentals, it does not save anything to the hard drive, it streams every time you want to watch it. With download rentals, it downloads the entire movie to the hard drive for you to watch once or many times. Those 1080p files are huge though, 10GB per movie. Takes a few hours to download.

You will have the option of renting a movie through iTunes on your computer which will download the movie to your hard drive, then playing it on the Apple TV.

That's one of the reasons why I bought the older 160 gb hard drive Apple TV's,
Also I want the ability to have other options without being stuck in the "Apple Sewing Circle"

l84toff
Sep 3rd, 2010, 05:18 PM
Apple usually has a 14-day return policy. Has it been more than 14 days? I'd still certainly call Apple, and I'd bet that they'll let you return your old model and get the new one on order, or give you the price difference at least.

Just on hold with Apple now. They are refunding the difference. Which is now $80 since they are $139. They were $169 last time I checked so this is an extra bonus that I wasn't expecting, I'm totally stoked they are doing this. :clap:

Just realized $139 is the refurbished price point.

Lawrence
Sep 3rd, 2010, 05:22 PM
Just on hold with Apple now. They are refunding the difference. Which is now $80 since they are $139. They were $169 last time I checked so this is an extra bonus that I wasn't expecting, I'm totally stoked they are doing this. :clap:

$139. is the refurbished price

dona83
Sep 3rd, 2010, 05:56 PM
Yah, we should've been more clear sorry lol. Good for people who want in on the hard drive based AppleTV, $139/$169 is a great price point.

But I'm still sold on the new Apple TV. I scored -4 based on screature's self survey.

Lawrence
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:06 PM
Yah, we should've been more clear sorry lol. Good for people who want in on the hard drive based AppleTV, $139/$169 is a great price point.

But I'm still sold on the new Apple TV. I scored -4 based on screature's self survey.

There is a 10-100 base ethernet connection on the new Apple TV,
But so is there a 10-100 base ethernet connection on the old Apple TV.

They are both capable of being wireless up to n

I'm still unsure on the new Apple TV,
But at least there is a mini USB port that might prove interesting in a 2nd gen version.

used to be jwoodget
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:15 PM
The AppleTV does not require use of a computer. All content is streamed to it. If you rent a show or movie, there is a 30 day window to watch it and you can re-stream it multiple times during the 48 hour window after the initial stream. It will also stream from a networked Mac (to access media, movies, tunes, photos, etc).

The biggest question anyone should ask before getting one is whether their Internet connection has at least 5Mb/s bandwidth. Otherwise, you are going to enjoy a highly stuttered delivery of 720P content. There is no mention of the bitrate of the AppleStore media nor the minimum bandwidth on the Apple site. I'd imagine the device has some amont of on-device flash memory to buffer the stream, but only for a few mins at most.

Also, the mini-USB port on the device is only for diagnostics use (service and support). It does not allow addition of a USB hard drive (this is similar to the older AppleTV although that could be hacked to allow external storage device addition).

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:18 PM
The AppleTV does not require use of a computer.

Unless you already have either a video or photo or music library... C'mon let's get real.... If you do a computer is needed.

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:21 PM
Yah, we should've been more clear sorry lol. Good for people who want in on the hard drive based AppleTV, $139/$169 is a great price point.

But I'm still sold on the new Apple TV. I scored -4 based on screature's self survey.

Good for you dona 83.... as you said, for you it is a no brainer. :clap: I am glad for you )sincerely) that it suits your needs so well... I am envious, as I wish it did mine. ;)

Lawrence
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:22 PM
The AppleTV does not require use of a computer. All content is streamed to it. If you rent a show or movie, there is a 30 day window to watch it and you can re-stream it multiple times during the 48 hour window after the initial stream. It will also stream from a networked Mac (to access media, movies, tunes, photos, etc).

The biggest question anyone should ask before getting one is whether their Internet connection has at least 5Mb/s bandwidth. Otherwise, you are going to enjoy a highly stuttered delivery of 720P content. There is no mention of the bitrate of the AppleStore media nor the minimum bandwidth on the Apple site. I'd imagine the device has some amont of on-device flash memory to buffer the stream, but only for a few mins at most.

Also, the mini-USB port on the device is only for diagnostics use (service and support). It does not allow addition of a USB hard drive (this is similar to the older AppleTV although that could be hacked to allow external storage device addition).

I think it's more the people that don't have a computer that are going to suffer with this product,
Or be really confused by how it works.
Others will just download the content to their computers and stream it to their Apple TV's.

It's just a very basic receiver,
It would be better if it had a big 250 gb SSD, But that ain't goin to happen yet.

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:47 PM
I think it's more the people that don't have a computer that are going to suffer with this product,
Or be really confused by how it works.
Others will just download the content to their computers and stream it to their Apple TV's.

It's just a very basic receiver,
It would be better if it had a big 250 gb SSD, But that ain't goin to happen yet.

Cripes no! That would put the price out of consideration against the competition. :eek:

Lawrence
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:51 PM
Cripes no! That would put the price out of consideration against the competition. :eek:

That's why you only get a 16 gb SSD, Hardly enough for 2 movies.

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:56 PM
That's why you only get a 16 gb SSD, Hardly enough for 2 movies.

Do we know this for sure....? Haven't seen any real hard evidence yet. At any rate even if it is true it is just for buffering. Not for storage... However, as you imply, this isn't going to happen until the price of SSDs fall dramatically.

Lawrence
Sep 3rd, 2010, 06:59 PM
Do we know this for sure....? Haven't seen any real hard evidence yet. At any rate even if it is true it is just for buffering. Not for storage.

No, We don't, Maybe that's why the limit is 720p

Still, I think I'll wait and see what a 2nd gen looks like.

screature
Sep 3rd, 2010, 07:00 PM
No, We don't, Maybe that's why the limit is 720p

Still, I think I'll wait and see what a 2nd gen looks like.

Agreed. Not ready for "prime time" yet. ;)

MacDaddy68
Sep 3rd, 2010, 08:24 PM
Personally - I love new Apple TV, seems like a pretty decent upgrade over the last version:

- New Black Gloss/Matte Look (mmm...)
- 80% Smaller (my crowded cabinet will appreciate that)
- A4 Chip (cooler, quieter, more powerful & efficient)
- Airplay
- .99 Rentals (ok, 1.09)
- Netflix, eventually
- Rotten Tomatoes integration
- Aluminum Remote
- My gawd, it's half price... only $119 people :eek:!

Besides the unfulfilled AppleTV wishlist, at this point - I could care less about what's missing: 1080p, internal storage, iOS, apps, multi-touch... laser cannons. As it sits, this sleek unit will pipe a huge collection of Movies, Music and Photos from the cloud to my living room - seamlessly and hiccup free. Anything that comes later is just a nice bonus.

Good enough for me :clap:
... and that's why I ordered one as soon the store went live.

KMPhotos
Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:08 PM
I've ordered the new Apple TV and can't wait. I was holding out buying an Apple TV for a year now.
For those saying they are gong to wait for the next version after this newest one - I'm not sure Apple will cycle through the Apple TV yearly. Although at the price point they could.
Also excited to see what ATV Flash releases once the new Apple TV is available.

Benito
Sep 4th, 2010, 09:42 AM
Are there any connectors available that will change the HDMI out into component or S video and sound?

pcronin
Sep 4th, 2010, 11:34 AM
screature and others that said the hackers are nuts, well... you're not hackers so you don't get the mindset. and that's ok :)

I don't like things not being used to full potential. this new nice little streaming box is being crippled incredibly by being tie to itunes, only playing itunes formats, only streaming from itunes. Maybe the hacks will find a way to have it able to do that AND search network apple/smb shares for content. At the very least adding codec support (perian) for more than apple's h.264 so that I can make use of my massive divx/xvid/mpeg/vob collection would be nice.

I'd love to see this $120 box be able to do that extra stuff. Preferably without need to run a service/daemon on a computer, (other than file share) but I'd even be willing to run a small service if it meant I could point the appletv at my Movies folder and go nuts. THAT would make me buy it.

Benito, there are devices to do this, but as it is an A/D conversion it's not a simple cable. just quickly googled it and the converters are about the same or even a bit more than the appletv itself.

screature
Sep 4th, 2010, 11:39 AM
screature and others that said the hackers are nuts, well... you're not hackers so you don't get the mindset. and that's ok :)


I think I must have misrepresented what I was trying to say.

I'm not against hacking the ATV... with the old one it was the only way to go as far as I am concerned. But with the new ATV I think it will require hacking the firmware which could be dicey and may end up killing the machine. That is all I was trying to say. Hey if someone comes up with a hack like aTV Flash for the new one that is safe and won't risk killing it then I am all for it. :D

pcronin
Sep 4th, 2010, 12:17 PM
I think I must have misrepresented what I was trying to say.

I'm not against hacking the ATV... with the old one it was the only way to go as far as I am concerned. But with the new ATV I think it will require hacking the firmware which could be dicey and may end up killing the machine. That is all I was trying to say. Hey if someone comes up with a hack like aTV Flash for the new one that is safe and won't risk killing it then I am all for it. :D

what do you think aTV flash did? lol
It 'flashed' the firmware, but because the firmware was on the local hd instead of some pram, it was "less risky" I suppose.

I'm sure the aTV flash people are working on the new one, or will be as soon as they ship ;)

screature
Sep 4th, 2010, 12:26 PM
what do you think aTV flash did? lol
It 'flashed' the firmware, but because the firmware was on the local hd instead of some pram, it was "less risky" I suppose.

I'm sure the aTV flash people are working on the new one, or will be as soon as they ship ;)

That is what I am getting at. With aTV Flash you could easily revert back if things went wrong or you just decided you didn't like it... That is why it was desirable. If the possibility exists to easily revert back with the new ATV under such circumstances then great... but I fear it may be more like flashing a motherboard which can be very risky indeed.

pcronin
Sep 4th, 2010, 12:41 PM
What's life without risk? ;)

screature
Sep 4th, 2010, 12:47 PM
What's life without risk? ;)

Death. :lmao:

Lawrence
Sep 5th, 2010, 02:33 PM
Are there any connectors available that will change the HDMI out into component or S video and sound?

That's one of the reasons why there is still an interest in the older Apple TV,
The old Apple TV has more ports for a more flexible connection.

I bought the older Apple TV with 160 gb hard drive for $169.,
They are still on sale at the Apple online store in the clearance section,
I figure if the hard drive dies, Then no matter, I'll just buy a bigger hard drive for it.

Here's a link if you can't find it (http://store.apple.com/ca/product/MB189?mco=MTg5MTczODI)

screature
Sep 5th, 2010, 02:38 PM
That's one of the reasons why there is still an interest in the older Apple TV,
The old Apple TV has more ports for a more flexible connection.

I bought the older Apple TV with 160 gb hard drive for $169.,
They are still on sale at the Apple online store in the clearance section,
I figure if the hard drive dies, Then no matter, I'll just buy a bigger hard drive for it.

Here's a link if you can't find it (http://store.apple.com/ca/product/MB189?mco=MTg5MTczODI)

Just a question... why would you be interested in a ATV without having a TV that can display HD content? There is only going to be less and less SD content available going forward.

I can understand years ago.... but LCD HD TV's are so inexpensive now (relatively speaking) why not spend the money on upgrading your TV first?

Lawrence
Sep 5th, 2010, 03:30 PM
Just a question... why would you be interested in a ATV without having a TV that can display HD content? There is only going to be less and less SD content available going forward.

I can understand years ago.... but LCD HD TV's are so inexpensive now (relatively speaking) why not spend the money on upgrading your TV first?


The older Apple TV has HDMI and Component inputs,
So having the flexibility to view at the cottage on a tube box and in the city on an LCD
is much more attractive to me, Since I can't find a cable to convert HDMI to component video.
Although you can buy an external box (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3803383&CatId=3667), But still, Difficult to buy and a nuisance.

Also Apple is being ignorant with their new Apple TV in assuming that everyone
has a home theatre with HDMI everywhere, When in reality we don't.

i-rui
Sep 5th, 2010, 03:31 PM
Just a question... why would you be interested in a ATV without having a TV that can display HD content? There is only going to be less and less SD content available going forward.

component cables can carry a 1080 signal.

Lawrence
Sep 5th, 2010, 04:18 PM
I bought the older Apple TV mainly because my Bell Satellite TV doesn't work when it's
raining outside, For some strange reason satellite dishes can't beam through rain.

So next time I lose my satellite signal, I'll zip over to the iTunes store and rent a tv show
and watch that while I'm waiting for the Bell satellite signal to return.


But seriously, I want to eventually give up my stupid Bell satellite.

G-Mo
Sep 5th, 2010, 04:24 PM
But seriously, I want to eventually give up my stupid Bell satellite.

Get FibeTV (by Bell), it's basically you current TV satellite Bell programing but streamed like Apple TV.

screature
Sep 5th, 2010, 04:31 PM
The older Apple TV has HDMI and Component inputs,
So having the flexibility to view at the cottage on a tube box and in the city on an LCD
is much more attractive to me, Since I can't find a cable to convert HDMI to component video.
Although you can buy an external box (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3803383&CatId=3667), But still, Difficult to buy and a nuisance.

Also Apple is being ignorant with their new Apple TV in assuming that everyone
has a home theatre with HDMI everywhere, When in reality we don't.

Ok I understand. Makes sense.

As far as Apple is concerned I guess they have reached the point where they figure being backwards compatible goes against their bottom line... kind of like when they dropped support for PPC computers.

Lawrence
Sep 5th, 2010, 04:32 PM
Get FibeTV (by Bell), it's basically you current TV satellite Bell programing but streamed like Apple TV.

I bet all those nice shiny condo's downtown have the option to get that,
Me on the other hand, I live in the east end, Sorta like east dork.

It's the dark ages out here.

screature
Sep 5th, 2010, 04:33 PM
component cables can carry a 1080 signal.

Yes of course... I was fixated on the S-video reference... which only supports SD... my bad. :)

i-rui
Sep 5th, 2010, 04:39 PM
I bought the older Apple TV mainly because my Bell Satellite TV doesn't work when it's
raining outside, For some strange reason satellite dishes can't beam through rain.



I'm with shaw direct (formerly starchoice) and I've never lost my feed completely in 3 years (it might drop the picture here & there....but only for a second) regardless of weather.

Although it may be your dish is just set up in a troublesome spot.

Lawrence
Sep 5th, 2010, 04:53 PM
I'm with shaw direct (formerly starchoice) and I've never lost my feed completely in 3 years (it might drop the picture here & there....but only for a second) regardless of weather.

Although it may be your dish is just set up in a troublesome spot.

Well, Fortunately our Bell Internet hasn't dropped at all,
So perhaps this is a good time to start using the Internet for our TV fix.

iTunes has some really nice choices for TV shows and movies compared to "Rerun Bell"

Jugger Grimrodd
Sep 5th, 2010, 04:57 PM
Resistance is futile.

This is going to sound silly, but i could care less about High Definition content. I have HD equipment but I just can't get on board with it. I really don't enjoy the enhanced quality enough to constitute the purchase of the media. I have about 500 DVD's backed up (VOB) and they are all 480p. I like em fine.

I will buy Star Wars on BlueRay. But those will be the only movies I own in that format.

Apple was smart to limit the experience (1080p over wireless is touch and go). They went from an underpowered (Pentium M) syncing box with local storage, to an overpowered (?) streaming solution. They will ensure a controlled, quality user experience at an affordable price. Apple is not targeting us with this product, we know too much. They are targeting the average consumer (that doesn't want to maintain a library of VOB's, MKV's or any other digital format).

I think they will sell a lot of these to Cottage owners. Load up the iPad/iPhone/Touch/MacBook with movies, and the next rainy day will be awesome!

I am curious to see how the device will deal with large libraries. The current gen ATV goes through a very lengthy "discovery" of media when set to stream. Hopefully, they will have rectified this in the new version.

Netflix will be big for me, bye bye cable. I can't wait. I hope the pricing is comparable to that of the States. I also hope that the available content will be the same (I can dream can't I?). However, as I write this, I have two other Netflix capable devices (PS3 and X-Box 360), one of these may be the primary Netflix device for me. It will all depend on the execution.

September 28 is going to be a good day. I can already feel it.

Jugger Grimrodd
Sep 5th, 2010, 05:06 PM
I should also note that I am sad that they removed the component video connections.

I have had a lot of problems with my Toshiba LCD TV connected by HDMI. There are issues with HDCP when switching sources (no handshake) with my TV (I have posted about this).

If the same is true with the new version, I will be very disappointed.

Lawrence
Sep 5th, 2010, 05:59 PM
I would have bought "Popcorn Hour (http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/)" but they kept changing their technology too often,
I never knew where they were going to end up, The early boxes were interesting,
But then they kept evolving into the wrong direction from what I wanted.

I was always rooting for Apple TV, But back in 1997...$449. was a little too steep,
But now that it is $169., I'm diving right in there baby and not looking forward.

:)

pcronin
Sep 5th, 2010, 07:49 PM
I will buy Star Wars on BlueRay. But those will be the only movies I own in that format.


Only if they release a copy without all that extra crap.. and returning to Han shooting first.

screature
Sep 6th, 2010, 11:12 AM
Resistance is futile...


LOL. Tell that to Steve Jobs for whom the ATV is "only a hobby"... he isn't even that sold on the product or the product category. You must have taken the "blue pill". ;)

mc3251
Sep 6th, 2010, 11:15 AM
I should also note that I am sad that they removed the component video connections.

I have had a lot of problems with my Toshiba LCD TV connected by HDMI. There are issues with HDCP when switching sources (no handshake) with my TV (I have posted about this).

If the same is true with the new version, I will be very disappointed.

I don't like HDMI, precisely because of the CP issues with it. it's the way though.....

lightbulb
Sep 6th, 2010, 11:51 AM
I've been getting my movies through ZIP.ca for years (great selection of non mainstream titles). ATV has tempted me several times; having the movie for the mood can't be beat.

Is there way to browse Apple's Canadian offerings without ATV? I'm curious what they have available compared to Rogers or PS3 on demand.

l84toff
Sep 6th, 2010, 03:18 PM
I've been getting my movies through ZIP.ca for years (great selection of non mainstream titles). ATV has tempted me several times; having the movie for the mood can't be beat.

Is there way to browse Apple's Canadian offerings without ATV? I'm curious what they have available compared to Rogers or PS3 on demand.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't iTunes offer the same movies?

mc3251
Sep 6th, 2010, 04:39 PM
that's what I thought

forbesy
Sep 8th, 2010, 05:56 PM
Disney and Fox agreed to atv but I believe in US only for now. So what TV content will Canada get?

mc3251
Sep 9th, 2010, 09:22 AM
what we have now at the same prices?
Get a US iTunes account.

dona83
Sep 9th, 2010, 02:53 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't iTunes offer the same movies?

The Canadian selection in iTunes is great... a lot better than the Canadian collection in Zune (on my XBox 360).

what we have now at the same prices?

Does not compute. ;)

dona83
Sep 9th, 2010, 08:01 PM
3-4 weeks!

mc3251
Sep 10th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Lol