: vinyl plank installation...


acc30
May 19th, 2010, 01:44 PM
Hi everyone... so I've finally purchased vinyl planks (Traffic Master from home depot) for a small portion of my work space since it was on sale and finally had means to buy them. I was hoping somebody can tell me on average, the cost I'll expect to have them installed by someone else. I'm debating if I should give it a try, though I have to admit I'm not too handy and this would be my first flooring project. There is an existing carpet, but can easily be removed.

I got a quote of $4 sq/f for installing it, buying the under layer, as well as baseboards to go around. Is this reasonable?

thanks in advance :)

eMacMan
May 19th, 2010, 02:10 PM
Not quite sure what vinyl planks are? Laminate flooring is incredibly easy to install but not at all sure if what you are talking about is similar.

Baseboards depend on type. Are we talking rubber here or wood. The wood baseboards will require at least a hand mitre saw, probably a coping saw as well and good measuring skills.

If we are talking a bathroom be sure to remove the toilet, check sub-floor integrity, then lay down your new flooring. You can then re-use the old toilet or install a new one.

Note: For about $20-$30 you can replace the toilets filler valve and flapper valve with Pro Line versions. A new flapper that shuts off the flush with about 4 inches of water remaining in the tank can have a 15 litre toilet flushing with about 8 litres.

A final thought. If it is indeed a carpeted bathroom then it is not unusual to have to rip out the plywood sub-floor. You might even have to reinforce a rotted floor joist or two. This would definitely increase the installation cost beyond the original estimate.

EDIT: Again not at all sure if we are talking about a bathroom, but if we are also be sure to paint the wall behind the toilet while you have it out.

Macfury
May 19th, 2010, 02:23 PM
I laid out one room emergency-quickly, in laminate. I find $4 a square foot installation a little much based on that. The underlayment was just some foam sheeting. If you have even rudimentary sawing skills, you should be able to cut the ends as you reach the ends of the room. If you're not comfortable doing baseboards, I recommend having someone do that for you, as well as do the last lengthwise cut of the laminate planks, if required, as you reach the last row.

acc30
May 19th, 2010, 02:39 PM
this is exactly what i bought and I selected this because of easy installation. My original plan was to do it myself, but since we are having tiles laid out in our lower basement, I figured to ask the person to also do the first level of the basement with these.

TrafficMaster - TrafficMaster Allure Yukon Oak Resilient Plank Flooring - 11053 - Home Depot Canada (http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=937036&Ntt=937036&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=172576&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber)


There is already a foam layer underneath the carpet, but I'm assuming they should be replaced. Is this the kind of sub-flooring to use?
Eco Cork Foam - Natural Choice Underlayment, for Laminate and Engineered Wood Floors - ECF50T3B6 - Home Depot Canada (http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=911488&Ntt=911488&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber)

CanadaRAM
May 19th, 2010, 02:40 PM
If you are installing wood or wood laminate flooring, you DON'T install it tight to the wall, you leave a small gap for expansion/contraction with weather and humidity. The baseboard quarter-round covers the gap. A pure vinyl product may or may not need that gap, depending on the brand. Check the instructions.

As with most things, preparation is the key. The surface under the floor must be clean, sound, smooth and level, with any nails pounded flush or countersunk and filled - the subfloor may also need to be sanded. If there is any doubt about the soundness of the subfloor, get it repaired first. You may need to install an underlayment - probably wood/particle board. Vinyl is flexible (unlike laminate and wood), and I don't think it is meant for installation over a foam or pliable underlay. I think it is intended for installation only on a solid surface. Again, check the instructions first...

Don't install the vinyl the same day you buy it. Check the manufacturer's recommendations for how long it should sit and acclimatize in your house before installation (to equalize the temperature and humidity of the product to the house)

If the planks are not self-adhesive, you MUST use the correct adhesive for the tile, and apply it with the right trowel.

How to Install Vinyl Plank Flooring | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/how_4855054_install-vinyl-plank-flooring.html)
How to Install a Tivoli Vinyl Plank Floor - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/283847/how_to_install_a_tivoli_vinyl_plank.html?cat=30)
Vinyl Flooring Installation | How to Install | DIY by FindAnyFloor.com (http://www.findanyfloor.com/InstallationGuides/InstallingVinylFlooring.xhtml)

Macfury
May 19th, 2010, 02:57 PM
CanadaRam: It's the glue-free stuff. The instructions tell you exactly how to acclimatize the product and what sort of gap to leave. I didn't find it very daunting.

dona83
May 19th, 2010, 03:19 PM
If it doesn't require adhesive, it's super easy to install. I put this stuff in my storage rooms where I don't need tile flooring to make it look nice, just something durable and functional and super quick to install. If it does require adhesive, it's still pretty easy just need a bit of prep work. It might get a little sticky but work slowly and carefully and it'll be all good. Just make sure the space is well ventilated.

eMacMan
May 19th, 2010, 03:30 PM
Essentially a vinyl version of laminate flooring.

As MacFury said the flooring itself is very easy. You will want to remove the baseboards, carpet and any carpet tack strips. Last time I was able to salvage the baseboards and reuse them. Even so the time I spent cleaning sanding and refinishing the baseboards easily exceeded the cost of working with new materials. In your case since you are already paying to have another area done, I would at least pay them to do the baseboards as well.

acc30
May 19th, 2010, 04:10 PM
thanks for the links CanadaRam.

The boards arrived this morning, 3 minutes after I received the tracking info from Home Depot, so I will read the instructions.

I had totally forgotten about acclimatizing the vinyl.

Are the baseboards you guys are speaking of something like this? Just wanted to get a better idea of pricing and such.
DRIcore - 2 Ft. x 2 Ft. DRIcore Engineered Subfloor Panel System - ODRICORE000000 - Home Depot Canada (http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=931386&Ntt=931386&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=172594&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber)

I guess it's quite daunting for me since I have never done a project like this.

Macfury
May 19th, 2010, 04:15 PM
Baseboards are the trim around the wall. Those are sub-floor panels designed for moist basements. On what kind of flooring did you intend to install the laminate flooring?

acc30
May 19th, 2010, 04:24 PM
Baseboards are the trim around the wall. Those are sub-floor panels designed for moist basements. On what kind of flooring did you intend to install the laminate flooring?

I'm sorry, I meant sub-floorings. Once the carpet is removed, it is all concrete and the person mentioned about putting something underneath the vinyl planks.

eMacMan
May 19th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Baseboards are the trim around the wall. Those are sub-floor panels designed for moist basements. On what kind of flooring did you intend to install the laminate flooring?

If your carpeting previously went to the wall with no trim along the base of the wall, you will need to add this trim as this kind of flooring will not go flush to the wall.

Going over framed walls you can use any type of conventional trim. Costs can vary from less than a dollar per lineal foot to several dollars per foot. All determined by your taste and the size of your wallet. If the walls are concrete you will have to glue the trim to the wall.

dona83
May 19th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Interesting, it looks like a good product but it's expensive for a commercial space. I would just use plywood, or even that glued together wood chips stuff (dunno what it's called, not particle board or MDF) would be fine for subfloor. The vinyl planks when finished will form a water resistant barrier.

I would definitely recommend this for basements of houses and ground floor condos on top of a concrete parkade.

eMacMan
May 19th, 2010, 04:36 PM
Interesting, it looks like a good product but it's expensive. I would just use plywood, or even that glued together wood chips stuff (dunno what it's called...

OSB which stands for "Oriented Strand Board" NOT "Old 5h!t Board". Right now as the price of plywood is the same or even cheaper I would certainly go that route.

Since it is going over concrete you might look into somehow insulating under the subfloor, that would certainly keep the floor a bit warmer. Quite a bit more expensive but worth it if you use the area a lot.

kps
May 19th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Are the baseboards you guys are speaking of something like this? Just wanted to get a better idea of pricing and such.
DRIcore - 2 Ft. x 2 Ft. DRIcore Engineered Subfloor Panel System - ODRICORE000000 - Home Depot Canada (http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=931386&Ntt=931386&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=172594&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber)

I guess it's quite daunting for me since I have never done a project like this.

If you have concrete under the carpet as you mentioned, then I would definitely use the above sub-floor before you even consider laying down the vinyl strip flooring. Concrete needs to breathe and will also allow moisture to seep in, so a properly installed sub floor over concrete is a must.

What does the $4/sqft installation fee include? The price would be good if it included removal of carpet and old trim, installation of the sub-floor, installation of the new floor and installation (re-installation) of trim (baseboards) and transition pieces.

Remember, you'll be adding to the hight of the finished floor (sub-floor+new floor) and you may need to undercut door jambs and install transitions or even an indoor threshold.

acc30
May 19th, 2010, 05:12 PM
If you have concrete under the carpet as you mentioned, then I would definitely use the above sub-floor before you even consider laying down the vinyl strip flooring. Concrete needs to breathe and will also allow moisture to seep in, so a properly installed sub floor over concrete is a must.

What does the $4/sqft installation fee include? The price would be good if it included removal of carpet and old trim, installation of the sub-floor, installation of the new floor and installation (re-installation) of trim (baseboards) and transition pieces.

Remember, you'll be adding to the hight of the finished floor (sub-floor+new floor) and you may need to undercut door jambs and install transitions or even an indoor threshold.

$4 sq/ft does include sub-flooring, baseboards and installation of the flooring and removal of carpet too. He will be the one getting all the supplies needed except for the flooring which I've purchased already.

Though I will clarify exactly what he intends to place underneath the flooring, to be perfectly clear.

acc30
May 19th, 2010, 05:14 PM
OSB which stands for "Oriented Strand Board" NOT "Old 5h!t Board". Right now as the price of plywood is the same or even cheaper I would certainly go that route.

Since it is going over concrete you might look into somehow insulating under the subfloor, that would certainly keep the floor a bit warmer. Quite a bit more expensive but worth it if you use the area a lot.

I will ask about the cost of putting insulation under the sub-floor, as this will be my work space so I will be there hours at a time.

Macfury
May 19th, 2010, 05:25 PM
$4 sq/ft does include sub-flooring, baseboards and installation of the flooring and removal of carpet too. He will be the one getting all the supplies needed except for the flooring which I've purchased already.

Do you have to buy the sub-floor as well?

acc30
May 19th, 2010, 05:34 PM
Do you have to buy the sub-floor as well?

According to him, he will buy them as part of the cost. Does $4 seem little if that's the case?

Macfury
May 19th, 2010, 05:38 PM
The dri-core is $1.55 a sq. foot, so if he's offering to:

1) buy the dri-core
2) prepare the floor
3) install the dri-core
4) install the vinyl laminate
5) buy baseboards
6) install baseboards

at a total price of $4 a sq.foot, it would seem a little low to me.

acc30
May 19th, 2010, 05:41 PM
The dri-core is $1.55 a sq. foot, so if he's offering to:

1) buy the dri-core
2) prepare the floor
3) install the dri-core
4) install the vinyl laminate
5) buy baseboards
6) install baseboards

at a total price of $4 a sq.foot, it would seem a little low to me.

I will clarify it then, make sure we're on the same page before any work is done.

eMacMan
May 19th, 2010, 05:43 PM
In this case it is very hard to guage cost on a square foot basis. For example a 30 SF bathroom might easily take as much or more time than a 200 SF room.

Given what he is doing for $4/SF I don't see the cost as being out of line for an ordinary room.

Sonal
May 19th, 2010, 05:46 PM
The dri-core is $1.55 a sq. foot, so if he's offering to:

If he's getting a trade discount on the material (likely) then it's probably not way off.

Still, I'd clarify everything anyway.

kps
May 19th, 2010, 06:24 PM
I just checked the manufacturer's details and the product you've chosen can be installed right over concrete with minimal prep. No additional sub-floor required so I doubt that any subfloor is included.

Here's my take on this job:

For a basement installation using this product I would forego the subfloor and not even bother removing the baseboards if they're 3 1/4" baseboards or wider. Then cover the gaps with 1/4 round. If they're smaller ei less than 3", then yes, I'd remove and re-install or use new.

I don't know how particular you are, but for a basement work space I wouldn't be too picky.

Based on some of this, I'd try and get a lower installation fee.

Macfury
May 19th, 2010, 06:57 PM
I didn't remove the baseboard when I installed either. As kps says, just leave the tolerance required and cover the gap with quarter-round.

I also agree, that unless the basement floor is damp or leakprone, I would just install the vinyl laminate over a thin sheet of foam.

macmini2010
May 20th, 2010, 10:30 AM
This vinyl product doesn't require a subfloor as it's reasonably water proof. Laminate does. This product also doesn't chip. You can install it easily yourself especially in a fairly square room. My landing (odd angles and small) took forever to install.

You can cut this product by scoring the underside (or finished if you're not comfortable with the method as described for scoring on the backside to ensure a "perfect cut". You bend along the score and it breaks off neatly.

If you have baseboards already installed the easiest way is just to install quarter round, very simple to cut and finish. You can either stain it to match the floor (which I did) or paint it to match the trim. This allows for much easier cleaning and a more professional look.

My recroom (16x34) was done in a couple of hours, took well over double that time to do the landing area (7x8 irregular). Once your in the middle it's literally about 5 seconds per plank. Make sure you stagger your ends. For a random look just take the last piece you cut to start the next row.

Or if you're one who likes a pattern use a chalk line to find the middle of the room so you can have both ends the same size for uniformity (imho looks worst).

I'd leave it two days or so to acclimatize, this product doesn't really expand/contract the way laminate does so you can have it reasonably flush. The key is to make sure each piece is nice and tight so you won't have gapping problems later (although with this product not as common as value laminate). (Gapping problem is when the person installs it all loosie goosie and over time the planks pull away leaving a few mm here and there of your subfloor sticking through.

This vinyl product is "warmer" then wood or ceramic but not as warm to the foot as carpet. My then 11 yr old brother installed this :)

acc30
May 20th, 2010, 10:54 AM
The dri-core is $1.55 a sq. foot, so if he's offering to:

1) buy the dri-core
2) prepare the floor
3) install the dri-core
4) install the vinyl laminate
5) buy baseboards
6) install baseboards

at a total price of $4 a sq.foot, it would seem a little low to me.

So i've had a chance to speak to him and $4 does not include sub-floor or dri core.

it includes:
1. removal of carpet / cleaning of the floor
2. buy and place underlayment foam
3. floor installation
4. buy baseboards
5. install baseboards

is that reasonable pricing?

Well, with what everyone has said so far, it seems like I will be able to do this, though I'd be very careful as not mess it up. I guess my only problem is installing baseboards, though I think I may know someone else who can help me with it. There are no existing baseboards.

with 172 sq ft, it will add up to $700 just for installation of this and if I can save that for something else in the house, it would be great.

jlcinc
May 20th, 2010, 12:01 PM
I just put down 160 square feet of this stuff. It took two of us 1 day to remove the carpet, carpet strips, and about 40 square feet of hardwood and install the tile. It is very easy to put down and you do not need any under pad or subfloor. You can install it right over the concrete. The only trick is cutting the tile. It is very easy to cut but you need a straight edge and someone to secure the edge to get a perfect cut. You don't really cut the tile just score it and then bend it until breaks and then cut the underside with a utility knife. Don't us a box cutter because it is not really strong enough to do the job. Find a friend and get a couple of extra boxes (because if you need to cut pieces to fit you will use more then you think) and go to work. Don't believe the instructions when they tell you that you have 10 minuets to reposition, my experience was about 30 seconds. The two things you should worry about one is making sure you lay the tiles out before you stick them together and 2 think about what you are cutting so you have the sticky strips in the right place. Make sure that you don't lay the strips so that the seams are in the same place stagger. It does look great.

John

acc30
May 20th, 2010, 12:37 PM
^
what did you use to cut?

Just thought I'd search for some videos on installation and of course they were on youtube... I think I'll think it over the weekend if it's a project I'll take on.... he doesn't plan on starting it until Monday so I'll have til Sunday to decide if I'll contract him for this or not.

jlcinc
May 20th, 2010, 03:09 PM
^
what did you use to cut?

Just thought I'd search for some videos on installation and of course they were on youtube... I think I'll think it over the weekend if it's a project I'll take on.... he doesn't plan on starting it until Monday so I'll have til Sunday to decide if I'll contract him for this or not.

A utility knife. Ask at the tool dept. Stronger then the box cutter knifes. Get the installer to change the quote he doesn't need a sub floor.

John



John

acc30
May 20th, 2010, 04:49 PM
A utility knife. Ask at the tool dept. Stronger then the box cutter knifes. Get the installer to change the quote he doesn't need a sub floor.

John



John

Apparently the quote didn't include the sub-floor but an underlayment foam instead. I guess $4 is more than it should be if there is no sub-floor included?

kps
May 20th, 2010, 08:53 PM
Apparently the quote didn't include the sub-floor but an underlayment foam instead. I guess $4 is more than it should be if there is no sub-floor included?

Not really if the price includes supplying and installing base boards which apparently you never had to begin with. $4.00 is reasonable by today's standards.

Difficult to advise you when information seems to trickle in bit by bit.;)

I'm surprised he didn't ask you what baseboard you wanted or show you samples. I guess he gets to choose.

My guess: it'll be MDF, probably Colonial or plain and probably the cheapest 2 1/2" wide.

Next question is, will he dispose of the carpet and other job waste or will he just dump it at the curb in front of your house for you to deal with on garbage day?

Trust me, I had to bribe my garbage collectors when I had construction waste, the carpet they will take no problem, but the flooring scraps and baseboard scraps is a different story.

You have two choices as far as I can see...1/ pay the installer or 2/ DIY with friends and family.

macmini2010
May 20th, 2010, 11:31 PM
All the tools required for this are cheap and involve no power :)

- For the cutting knife, Stanley has a very nice one, it's silver with about a 30-45 degree angle, it should be under 20 bucks, it's very comfortable and easy to use. Very little pressure is required to score. If you're not sure you can practice scoring on one piece. You can use a metal T-square, yard stick, even ruler as a guide (just cut along the edge if you're unsure of a steady hand. Now for the good news your cuts will be hidden by the baseboard/quarter round so even if it's not perfectly straight you're A-OK. The "snap" edge and side edges (except for one edge on the ends) will all be factory 100% straight.

The product is made of a vinyl composite material, the actual finish is a thin veneer, the key is to score through this and a little of the interior vinyl core material. You just bend back and the product will make a very clean cut. This works for the large straight cuts. If you have any weird small angles (Ie. for a pole) just saw the material with a small drywall type saw or your Stanley utility knife.

As the product itself is pliable you DO NOT need the foam underlay. This is required for laminate which is a much less cushioned material. This product itself has some "cushion" to it and for minor surface imperfections will just kind of mould itself to the imperfection. (Note I said minor, not major) .


SURFACE PREPARATION

Sweep all debris/dust away, mop if unsure and allow to dry completely. If there is any major imperfections you can fill in with a concrete patch material. The key is a clean surface that is dry so no mould will develop and haunt you later on.

BASEBOARD INSTALLATION

Tools needed, All-Purpose Hammer, Nails, Countersink, Wood Filler, Paint, Wood Hand Saw, Mitre Box, Or alternatively a power compound mitre saw if you have one :), stud finder, paint, sanding block

I don't know how fussy you are, if you're not fussy and don't mind nail heads showing it's literally cut pieces to fit, use the 45 degree cut to both sides for both inside and outside corners (Just the opposite cut), nail into the studs which should be about 18 or 24 inches apart if to code. If you're using basic baseboard (ie 2" or so) you can just get away with nailing into the footer (there should be a 2x6 or 2x4 along the bottom of the wall) so as long as you're an inch or inch and a half from the bottom of the floor you'll be hitting something. Use the countersink to sink the nails, so you can put in some wood filler, allow time to dry as per manufacturers directions (ie overnight), sand. You can then paint over it to match the trim (probably a white trim paint or beige or hot pink if you so desire). I recommend painting as you can buy cheaper trim and won't have to worry as much about "getting it 110% perfect.

For trim if this is just a basement, you can get away with finger-joint or MDF whichever has the style you prefer. Chances are the builder used finger-joint. (Finger joint is smaller pieces of wood assembled together with non-matching grain if you paint you'll never notice the difference except in your wallet). Generally MDF trim will be thicker so if you prefer the thicker look and want to save money just get MDF trim. The other benefit of MDF trim is since it's thicker it's easier to hide slightly less then true cuts without installing quarter round. You'll never notice the difference once complete :)

For nails you should be fine with finishing nails this isn't structural :)

I've installed this product into several rooms it is easy. I'm not a handy man by any stretch of the imagination, Costco even changes my oil for me!

700 bucks is almost a Mac Mini...!

acc30
May 21st, 2010, 09:47 AM
^
wow... thanks for that detailed step by step... really great! Some friends have offered to help, so long as I feed them...

actually i wanted to spend that $700 to buy a Canon T1i for my long awaited trip this summer...

acc30
May 21st, 2010, 10:04 AM
Not really if the price includes supplying and installing base boards which apparently you never had to begin with. $4.00 is reasonable by today's standards.

Difficult to advise you when information seems to trickle in bit by bit.;)

I'm surprised he didn't ask you what baseboard you wanted or show you samples. I guess he gets to choose.

My guess: it'll be MDF, probably Colonial or plain and probably the cheapest 2 1/2" wide.

Next question is, will he dispose of the carpet and other job waste or will he just dump it at the curb in front of your house for you to deal with on garbage day?

Trust me, I had to bribe my garbage collectors when I had construction waste, the carpet they will take no problem, but the flooring scraps and baseboard scraps is a different story.

You have two choices as far as I can see...1/ pay the installer or 2/ DIY with friends and family.

I am assuming that he would get the same baseboards he bought for the lower basement he already installed... and from what I recall, they were more than 2"

macmini2010
May 21st, 2010, 04:50 PM
2.5"s is still a small baseboard, shouldn't make that much of a difference. Again I'm not sure how much of a perfectionist you are. It should look good, (ie. middle-classish home good) but not manor home good when done by self. If you have 2 or 3 people it should be easily handled. The part that will take the longest of the floor install is once you reach the far wall since this is where you'll be doing the majority of your cuts. The trim should be relatively easy to install as you're doing basic trim. If you added chair rails, crown mouldings etc then you're into the "fun" stuff.

If assembling Ikea or any other RTA furniture makes you squirm don't attempt. But if you can assemble RTA furniture this isn't that much harder. Your first room (ie this one) will be the one that takes awhile, once you do the first room any normal (Ie non weird angle or broom closet small) room will be second nature.

Chances are you ordered a bit more then you needed, practice on a spare piece first if you're unsure, same with the trim. Take a small piece and just practice cutting and assembling your corners. If you don't feel confident after that you can always hire the pro. Paint covers a lot of the smaller imperfections. When I first built my home, during my home's walk through with the builder you'd be amazed at all the small little problems discovered. Spackle here, wood filler there did wonders.

Canon camera eh? I have a Digital Elph. I'm a point and shooter myself and love my Canon. Noble use of the money :)