: jag install question


xorpion
Oct 12th, 2002, 04:58 PM
hi all

ive got a b/w g3 and id like to run jag on it.

heres my dillemma. i removed the original 256MB ram chip and replaced it with 4 256MB (1 GB total ram) purchased from a local comp store, not apple specific. i no longer have the original chip.

ive heard that the installer for X is real finicky with things like this and extra pci cards and what not.

will the installer give me any problems if i try to install it? i dont wanna buy it and find i cant use it.

can i buy a new ram chip (256 or maybe 512) from a reputable apple dealer and go with that?

any help appreciated, maybe i should just email macdoc about it. smile.gif

used to be jwoodget
Oct 12th, 2002, 06:01 PM
If the 1 gig of RAM is working fine under 9.2.2 or 10.1.x and you have the latest firmware for the B&W G3, Jaguar shouldn't cause grief. I think the main issue is that you do need to flash the latest firmware of older machines to be able to run OS X. That's what caused the RAM failure problems a while back.

One possibility is to test your chips in a friends machine that's already running Jaguar. Of course, that depends on you having a pal running Jag.

macman
Oct 12th, 2002, 06:57 PM
There is a freeware utility available to check the compatibility of your RAM called DIMM First Aid *-* 1.2. If your DIMMs aren't compatible the utility will tell you and you have the option of letting the utility "fix" the DIMMs to work with the new firmware.

All the info and the utility are available from Versiontracker here:
http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=10415&db=mac

Cheers,
Macman.

surrealestate
Oct 12th, 2002, 10:28 PM
Hey kids!

Just a quick question brought on by the preceeding posting...the tech notes I dowloaded from Apple regarding the b/w G3, the one I just bought, says that the maximum RAM is 384m. 3 slots at 128m each. Was this a limitation of the time when the G3's were introduced or software related? Can I max out the 3 slots?

Thanks in advance.

surrealestate

PosterBoy
Oct 13th, 2002, 01:29 PM
No, it is hardware related. The first B&W G3 has three slots that hold 128 each officially and the second revision has four slots that hold 256 each.

It is almost as confusing as beige G3s with their freaking personality cards.

--PB

MacDoc
Oct 13th, 2002, 03:18 PM
Please don't add to the confusion when you don't know what you are talking about........

Beige G3 towers and desktops are equipped with Gossamer motherboards - have 3 RAM slots, can use up to 768 megs of RAM and are clockable to 550 mHz at up to 83 mHz bus speeds.
Beiges with a RevC ROM chip can handle two drives on the IDE bus.
Beige G3s with high clock G3 chips run X fine but you should get a video card to do so.
G4 chips in a beige are great on OS9 but not on X due to architecture issues altho it can be done it is not recommended.
Another limitation is the drive speed as its a 16 meg per second limit on the ide bus. A $100 ATA cd fixes this and drives will run up to 50 megs per second.

Blue & White G3s are equipped with Yosemite motherboards and came in Rev A and Rev B with the latter being far better and more stable. The only way you can tell for sure is to check if the ide controller has a -402 designation - that indicates a REV B.
Drives trays on the most REV A's were awkward but there were some late Rev As that used the separate drive bays.
Rev B and Yikes G4 motherboards are interchangeable. B&Ws are excellent G4 upgrade boxes.

ALL B&W G3s need to be firmware modified to
a) use OS 9
b) use a G4 chip - these are separate steps.

B&Ws are easily capable of 600 mHz G4 upgrades with some reporting 700 with the 7410 G4 chips. They are very nice X boxes especially when equipped with the 32 meg Radeon 7000 altho on a 17" the stock 16 meg Rage 128 is very fast.
B&Ws keep the adb port and with the 66 mHz PCI bus for the video card are by far the least expensive boxes than can run X really well.

After all this your only concern is really that certain 256 chips either PC100 or PC133 will only show half their RAM value. X is not likely to give you a problem unless you have some very old scsi or pci specialty cards.

If you are local we can do the RAM and the OSX and any other upgrades for a civilized price. Instead of a gig of RAM 512 with a G4 upgrade or the Radeon 7000 upgrade might actually be a better speed bump. We love Blues...but not REV As.

MacDoc
Oct 13th, 2002, 10:58 PM
Forgot - ALL G3 Blues have 4 RAM slots with a 1 gig limit and maximum 256 per slot. Some PC100 and PC133 RAM will only read at half the RAM. Double sided 256 chips are the safest.

PosterBoy
Oct 13th, 2002, 11:25 PM
Hmm. Could have sworn I saw B&W with three slots, but then again it could have been a mod. It's not that I don't know what I am talking about, its that I don't deal with old hardware on a daily basis.

And there is no way that you can convince me that any model since is more confusing models than the Beige G3s. Freaking personality cards.

--PB

surrealestate
Oct 13th, 2002, 11:43 PM
Ah yes, clear as mud.

I have a 300mhz G3/AV with 256meg RAM. If I understand correctly, even to run OS 9 I need to do a firmware upgrade. Something I can do? When 9.2 fullfillment arrives I am planning to wipe the hard drive, partition and install X on one drive, 9.2 on the other. Would the Drive Setup software on the 9.2 CD accomplish this?

If not I guess I'm looking at a trip to Mississauga right?

PosterBoy
Oct 14th, 2002, 01:58 PM
You can use the drive setup on either the OS 9 install CD or the OS X install CD, but you will probably have a much easier time of it if you use the OS 9 CD. Things go much easier if you get 9 installed first also.

--PB

used to be jwoodget
Oct 14th, 2002, 02:07 PM
Apple has released various firmware updates over the years. The following Apple Knowledgebase article describes the firmware needed for all models if you wish to install OS X 10.2

Doc Number 86117 (go to the Apple Support Pages and search on 86117)

There are two recommended firmware updates for B&W G3s depending on whether you have the SCSI port.

MacDoc
Oct 14th, 2002, 02:23 PM
The OS 9 CD has the correct firmware but it must be installed on a bootable drive with 8.x on it.

Beige personality cards are very straight forward. The two most in circulation are AV and standard.
The AV version simply duplicated the ports from the earlier 8500 and 8600.

The standard version just had sound in and out. They are all interchangeable. They all could carry internal modems.

The rare version looked very similar to the AV but had a hardware DVD decoder on it BUT it had to matched with a very specific graphics chip on the motherboard to work and had a lot of quirks that would prevent DVDs from playing. I swear Apple doesn't even acknowledge Beige DVD units were ever made there is so little reference and support for them ;-(

surrealestate
Oct 14th, 2002, 05:34 PM
OK, so here's the plan once the CD with 9.2 arrives:

1)With OS 9 CD loaded(but started from the regular 8.6 drive, I look in the Apple Extras folder and update the firmware.

2)Upgrade 8.6 to 9.2 then defrag the existing 7Gig drive(make lunch, read a book, do taxes, memorize Genesis etc.)

3)Then use Disk Copy utility to copy contents to a Jaz.

4)Using 9.2 CD, format and partition drive into X & 9 drives.

5)Copy 9 image onto proper drive.

6)Install X on its own drive.

7)Drive to Mississauga for G4, RAM and video card mentioned earlier....'cause it's too slow!

Do I have everything in order?
tongue.gif

MacDoc
Oct 14th, 2002, 11:28 PM
OK, so here's the plan once the CD with 9.2 arrives:

1)With OS 9 CD loaded(but started from the regular 8.6 drive, I look in the Apple Extras folder and update the firmware.
Yep when you install the firmware the machine will shut down, have a pen ready, push the right hand small button ( it's slightly concave) in with the tip of the pen and start the Mac. You will hear a tone, keep the button pushed until the tone stops.
The machine may then restart or continue to boot and a blue progress bar will show at the bottom of the screen - make sure you do not interrupt this bar.
If the machine shuts down after the tone just start it normally and watch for the progress bar. One the bar has stopped it may reboot again and show that your firmware has beens uccessfully upgraded.

2)Upgrade 8.6 to 9.2 then defrag the existing 7Gig drive(make lunch, read a book, do taxes, memorize Genesis etc.)

Do the upgrade but don't bother to defrag as that will happen when you copy your data.

3)Then use Disk Copy utility to copy contents to a Jaz.
Safer to just drag the volume ( a Jaz is pretty small space to do a data transfer and you might run into problems if you have a scsi card installed - X can get squirrelly with a scsi device)

4)Using 9.2 CD, format and partition drive into X & 9 volumes
Make sure X is the first volume

5 )Install 9 image onto proper volume

6) Install X on its own volume.

7)Drive to Mississauga for G4, RAM and video card mentioned earlier....'cause it's too slow!

Do I have everything in order?
Well if you do the latter first we'll do all the former for you ;) and you'll have a nice quick X box

xorpion
Oct 15th, 2002, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by macdoc:

If you are local we can do the RAM and the OSX and any other upgrades for a civilized price. Instead of a gig of RAM 512 with a G4 upgrade or the Radeon 7000 upgrade might actually be a better speed bump. We love Blues...but not REV As.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

macdoc, what would you call a civilized price?

id like this thing to go X but be problem free if possible. im not sure which REV i have.

if its reasonable, ill see about lettin you do it for me.

thanx

surrealestate
Oct 15th, 2002, 07:53 PM
To MacDoc,

A price range would be nice. With 256meg RAM already installed would it be as simple as filling the 3rd slot with one chip?

Then, replace the existing ATI with the recommended graphics card instead of the G4 upgrade or both? We're probably looking at spending as much as I did on the box itself!?

I only have the Jaguar software, do I have to wait for the 9.2 from New Brunswick before we do this?

How much lead time do I need to give you? You're in Mississauga, I'm in Hamilton so it's only 20 minutes or so depending on traffic. Can it be done the same day? I'd arrive as close to opening as possible and promise not to hang around peaking over shoulders while it's done...maybe go visit Hazel...?

Thanks in advance.

MacDoc
Oct 15th, 2002, 08:05 PM
$655 with the 256 RAM upgrade for a G4 450 1 meg cache and the Radeon card plus $45 to do the installs.
Takes about an hour - you can watch the aquarium denizens or hike down to the local Chapters etc.
Evenings are fine. ;)
You don't need to wait for the 9.2 your word is good for us that Mr. Jobs is getting his fair cut ;)