: The Future of Publishing/Digital Media


chuckster
Dec 24th, 2009, 11:06 AM
Groundbreaking concept video from Bonnier R&D: the future of digital media? | 2009/12/ | news | Graphic Arts Magazine (http://graphicartsmag.com/news/2009/12/groundbreaking-concept-video-from-bonnier-rad-the-possible-future-of-digital-media?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Emailmarketingsoftware&utm_content=361634431&utm_campaign=NewsletterDecember23+_+khukjl&utm_term=GroundbreakingconceptvideofromBonnierRDth efutureofdigitalmedia)


Hopefully this will keep some graphic people working after the ink stops hitting the paper.

WestWeb
Dec 24th, 2009, 03:32 PM
Wow that looked like a really quality reading experience that's for sure. Devices like this will definitely hurt the graphic/design industry on the print side a lot: but, the future of digital media is looking brighter than ever. As usual, those who adapt to change will succeed.

Really though, I often hear artists talking about when they went from print to digital media and how they actually do better work, and with less effort; once they got over the learning curve of course.

Something a bit off topic: but, I had to share, it's amazing!

I came across this video on ted.com (http://http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/pranav_mistry_the_thrilling_potential_of_sixthsens e_technology.html), and while there are no real breakthroughs technology wise, the breakthrough is really how this guy uses current technology to help people interact with their everyday world. It's almost like turning real life into a touchscreen: the potential obstacles some people with disabilities could overcome with a device like this are incredible!

chas_m
Dec 25th, 2009, 03:14 AM
Saw something quite similar to this years ago at an Adobe seminar. PDFs can do most of the e-mag concept right now, all you have to do is invent a finger-controlled touchscreen device that is thin, full colour and not too expensive.

As for graphic designers, I are one -- though that's not my main gig anymore. I'm not too worried about designers in this new golden age -- design will actually become MORE, not less, important as time goes on. Look at what's happened to the web -- just 10 years ago web sites and pages looked sooooo primitive, but all that's really changed is that designers insisted on getting in there and developing the tools to give the WWW a serious makeover.

No designers will be fine. The question yet to be answered is "what is the model for making a profit?" Apple is likely to have figured this out on the hardware side, but until publishers can figure out how to "sell" these eMags, the idea is far from assured a future.

screature
Dec 25th, 2009, 11:17 AM
...design will actually become MORE, not less, important as time goes on. Look at what's happened to the web -- just 10 years ago web sites and pages looked sooooo primitive, but all that's really changed is that designers insisted on getting in there and developing the tools to give the WWW a serious makeover...


I agree and don't agree at the same time. Certainly design on the web has vastly improved over the years and yes that has a lot to do with professional designers. But the opposite side of the coin is analogous to what happened with photography, now everyone thinks they are a photographer just because they have a camera.

With the easy access to design tools more and more amateurs are doing the work that professionals did. It doesn't mean the work is great, but it certainly can be passable for small independent business. This is a good thing for the small business owner but a bad thing for the independent designer whose bread and butter can be these types of clients.

My fear is that it will/has become harder and harder for small shops/independent designers to stay afloat. If a designer is "fortunate" enough to work for a larger firm/internal marcom department of a larger organization then they will be fine. Being an independent has always been tough and I think it is only going to get tougher.

chas_m
Dec 26th, 2009, 01:46 AM
But the opposite side of the coin is analogous to what happened with photography, now everyone thinks they are a photographer just because they have a camera.

Yeah, tell me about it! I was in j-school when desktop publishing happened. Hoo boy, suddenly everyone was a publisher!

With the easy access to design tools more and more amateurs are doing the work that professionals did.

Very true, but was ever thus. When was the last time you had a portrait painter in your house to immortalise your family? :)

My fear is that it will/has become harder and harder for small shops/independent designers to stay afloat.

It will, but many of the people who used to be graphic artists are now website designers. Creative fields are ever-fluid and forever reinventing themselves, and its always been that way. Adapt or die as the saying goes. Inventive, quality designers with genuine talent and flair need not worry too much.

If a designer is "fortunate" enough to work for a larger firm/internal marcom department of a larger organization then they will be fine. Being an independent has always been tough and I think it is only going to get tougher.

Only if the independent has forgotten the Golden Rule of Freelancing, which is that there are THREE parts to your business: Finding the Work (which includes promoting yourself, networking, etc), Doing the Work and Getting Paid for the Work (not just getting the cheque, but doing the accounts/taxes/budgeting etc). I was totally freelance for over a decade, but was only moderately successful (made a reasonable middle-class living, but never more than that). The reason? Because I'm good at Part One and really enjoy Part Two, but I'm lousy with Part Three. To be a successful Creative Professional, you HAVE to be reasonably good at all THREE areas, or rich enough to afford hiring someone to do Parts One and Three. Without all three legs, the stool of freelancing just doesn't work.

mguertin
Dec 26th, 2009, 02:34 AM
It's going to be very interesting where things go in this area, especially on the design front. "Traditional" magazine type layouts are not going to work for the much much richer media available in this type of approach. Print media layout doesn't lend to being a very good interface for accessing data. Web type layout won't cut it either -- way too many websites right now have so much _crap_ all over them and so little actual content, especially for the "magazine" type stuff. Lots of them are about how much stuff you can cram onto a single page. I've been saying this for ages ... and dag nabbit .. it's gonna happen sooner or later. But ... it's going to take someone with real foresight and big cahonies to break out of the mold.

If (and I still say if because it hasn't happened yet) apple releases a tablet targeted at digital media content delivery I'll be curious to see what they do because if anyone can break the mold it's Apple. They have such a leap on digital media delivery right now with all that is ITMS that they can likely pull some massive weight in dictating the direction of things to come in more than just the delivery system mechanics. I suspect that the direction they take might not be in the direction of anything that Adobe holds tightly to their chest (flash, PDF, etc). Maybe we'll see the return of something along the lines of openDoc -- the technology, and more importantly the horsepower to pull that sort of thing off is now available. In fact the way Quicklook (and it's sibling technologies that the iPhone already uses) work is pretty much along the same very lines. Maybe I'm wrong too, but Apple doesn't like paying out money for things that they don't have to (like Adobe licensing fees) if they can do it themselves. Since they will be so unique and have such a potential jump in this world they can call the shots so to speak. As long as they keep things simple all the drowning ink on paper businesses will follow happily. There's no one else in this part of the biz to put the pressure on them -- yet -- and if they do it right I suspect they won't face too many challenges over it all.

It's a very interesting time on the design front right now, and I suspect it will get pretty hairy over the next few years as a lot of "traditional" lines get very very blurred.

Lastly, @chuckster: I don't think we'll see ink stop hitting the paper in the short term, but it's going to change for sure, albeit slowly -- once there are decent alternatives out there. Pigment on paper is so pre-21st century in so many regards ;)

mguertin
Dec 26th, 2009, 02:44 AM
My fear is that it will/has become harder and harder for small shops/independent designers to stay afloat. If a designer is "fortunate" enough to work for a larger firm/internal marcom department of a larger organization then they will be fine. Being an independent has always been tough and I think it is only going to get tougher.

Maybe in the short term ... but maybe not. Look at the iPhone app world. There have been some great examples of small shops really hitting the spotlight whereas a lot of larger shops have yet to even jump into that world. I think this could happen in the design world as well. I suspect that a lot of the larger firms may have some truly big hurdles to overcome making a transition from print to the digital world. Decades upon decades of their workflows and all the people that are stuck in that workflow. You can lead a horse to water ...

On the other hand small shops with smart and on top of the technology designers might be able to make a huge jump. Cost of delivery for digital is going to be a BIG factor in this. Delivering print media is a very VERY costly venture from the design department all the way up. Delivering digital media, with the help of someone like ... Apple ... is much less costly. A handful of good designers, a few good writers and editors and an even playing field can go a looooong way in an arena that until digital many people couldn't play in. Also with digital you don't have to worry as much about the hard costs of being stuck with 10k copies of something that no one wanted as those business models will no longer apply. There will be a lot of opportunity for the right designers (and writers, and editors, etc etc) to jump on the new tech and leave behind some large sinking ships ...

chuckster
Dec 26th, 2009, 09:38 AM
I can't seem to separate the immediate changes to the overall paradigm shift in communication. Still working at a small print shop, I can see the changes daily in what is being printed and how it's being delivered to the consumer. Locally, in a smaller urban centre, radio and television as well as print media are being effected and as noted in bryanc's post (Future of Journalism) nobody seems convinced where the future lies.
Way back in the seventies I was at the Ontario College of Art when it went through a split: teaching the "how" of applying ink to paper or paint to canvas or focusing on the creativity because the media will always change. Which brings Marshall McLuhan to mind.
Ten years ago at the start of the millennium there were obvious signs that change was ramping up. I likened it to the same period 100 years before when technological change replaced the artisans who cut litho stones to get images into books with a photographic image. Boom. An entire way of doing things gone.
Or maybe there are no analogies. Maybe it's just difficult to get perspective when you are in the middle of change.

groovetube
Dec 26th, 2009, 10:38 AM
Maybe in the short term ... but maybe not. Look at the iPhone app world. There have been some great examples of small shops really hitting the spotlight whereas a lot of larger shops have yet to even jump into that world. I think this could happen in the design world as well. I suspect that a lot of the larger firms may have some truly big hurdles to overcome making a transition from print to the digital world. Decades upon decades of their workflows and all the people that are stuck in that workflow. You can lead a horse to water ...

On the other hand small shops with smart and on top of the technology designers might be able to make a huge jump. Cost of delivery for digital is going to be a BIG factor in this. Delivering print media is a very VERY costly venture from the design department all the way up. Delivering digital media, with the help of someone like ... Apple ... is much less costly. A handful of good designers, a few good writers and editors and an even playing field can go a looooong way in an arena that until digital many people couldn't play in. Also with digital you don't have to worry as much about the hard costs of being stuck with 10k copies of something that no one wanted as those business models will no longer apply. There will be a lot of opportunity for the right designers (and writers, and editors, etc etc) to jump on the new tech and leave behind some large sinking ships ...

I agree.

I wouldn't call this video exactly... groundbreaking. We already know this. Or, if you don't, k maybe you will be in for some tough times. I've run a digital media shop now for 10 years, and if you've been in this industry for any length of time, and are still alive, then you've already learned to move quickly.

screature
Dec 26th, 2009, 11:53 AM
Maybe in the short term ... but maybe not. Look at the iPhone app world. There have been some great examples of small shops really hitting the spotlight whereas a lot of larger shops have yet to even jump into that world. I think this could happen in the design world as well. I suspect that a lot of the larger firms may have some truly big hurdles to overcome making a transition from print to the digital world. Decades upon decades of their workflows and all the people that are stuck in that workflow. You can lead a horse to water ...

On the other hand small shops with smart and on top of the technology designers might be able to make a huge jump. Cost of delivery for digital is going to be a BIG factor in this. Delivering print media is a very VERY costly venture from the design department all the way up. Delivering digital media, with the help of someone like ... Apple ... is much less costly. A handful of good designers, a few good writers and editors and an even playing field can go a looooong way in an arena that until digital many people couldn't play in. Also with digital you don't have to worry as much about the hard costs of being stuck with 10k copies of something that no one wanted as those business models will no longer apply. There will be a lot of opportunity for the right designers (and writers, and editors, etc etc) to jump on the new tech and leave behind some large sinking ships ...

I don't disagree with what you are saying mg except that in terms of the number of designers that will be able to make the shift.

The point being made/questioned is will designers be able to survive the paradigm shift, certainly some will and survive and thrive. But there is still a huge base of designers and firms out there whose bread and butter is print. It maybe "pre-21st Century" in some people's eyes but that is taking a narrow view of it, basically consumer. There is still a vast amount of print related material being generated by business (particularly B2B), government and NGO's.

If and when the paradigm shift comes to these organizations only time will tell what it means for designers as a whole.

screature
Dec 26th, 2009, 12:01 PM
I agree.

I wouldn't call this video exactly... groundbreaking. We already know this. Or, if you don't, k maybe you will be in for some tough times. I've run a digital media shop now for 10 years, and if you've been in this industry for any length of time, and are still alive, then you've already learned to move quickly.

I think you are effectively only looking at the consumer side of things. As I stated above there is still a vast amount of work done world wide for business (particularly B2B), government and NGOs that are still primarily based in print media and a large number of freelancers do get contracts for these organizations. These types of organizations because of their large size are not known to move quickly and so those that work for them don't have to adapt in ways that digital media shops have to. As I said their will be those that survive and thrive, but there will certainly be casualties along the way, whether or not the paradigm shift will be a good thing for designers in the long run only time will tell.

screature
Dec 26th, 2009, 12:09 PM
It will, but many of the people who used to be graphic artists are now website designers. Creative fields are ever-fluid and forever reinventing themselves, and its always been that way. Adapt or die as the saying goes. Inventive, quality designers with genuine talent and flair need not worry too much.


I totally agree, but there are still a vast number of designers who are print based and not all will be able to make the shift... The point I am making is it will not be good for all designers... there will be losses, whether or not you feel compassion for them is another matter (Adapt or die)... The whole point being questioned is whether the paradigm shift will be a good thing for designers and I believe the real complete answer is yes and no. That's all I'm sayin'.

groovetube
Dec 26th, 2009, 01:31 PM
I think you are effectively only looking at the consumer side of things. As I stated above there is still a vast amount of work done world wide for business (particularly B2B), government and NGOs that are still primarily based in print media and a large number of freelancers do get contracts for these organizations. These types of organizations because of their large size are not known to move quickly and so those that work for them don't have to adapt in ways that digital media shops have to. As I said their will be those that survive and thrive, but there will certainly be casualties along the way, whether or not the paradigm shift will be a good thing for designers in the long run only time will tell.

ah, no. More than half of my production, is not 'consumer side of things'. We see a serious shift in B2B, certainly all of our government work, to digital media. We all do. It's been discussed at every meet and greet/industry event for the past few years now. It's been accelerating for the past year or so quite rapidly.

Print is not going away just yet, but in my industry, it is well known the shift to digital and interactive media is so pronounced, that many agencies are busy rebranding, rebuilding, to embrace the new shift, or die on the side of the road soon.

That's the true state of things. The latest is watching many agencies falling over themselves to try and appear as 'experts in social media'. They're scared.

The thing to remember, is that regardless of what technology reigns supreme, no program or platform can automate a good digital strategy, good design, nor effective ad campaigns. Take the skills you have now, and adapt them to the newer frameworks, and platforms of delivery. I have spent far more resources on retraining, rethinking, and watching very closely the movement than any year since opening my business.

Is it good for designers? Well, it -could- be. Get off your keester and figure it. Fast.

screature
Dec 26th, 2009, 01:59 PM
ah, no. More than half of my production, is not 'consumer side of things'. We see a serious shift in B2B, certainly all of our government work, to digital media. We all do. It's been discussed at every meet and greet/industry event for the past few years now. It's been accelerating for the past year or so quite rapidly.

Print is not going away just yet, but in my industry, it is well known the shift to digital and interactive media is so pronounced, that many agencies are busy rebranding, rebuilding, to embrace the new shift, or die on the side of the road soon.

That's the true state of things. The latest is watching many agencies falling over themselves to try and appear as 'experts in social media'. They're scared.

The thing to remember, is that regardless of what technology reigns supreme, no program or platform can automate a good digital strategy, good design, nor effective ad campaigns. Take the skills you have now, and adapt them to the newer frameworks, and platforms of delivery. I have spent far more resources on retraining, rethinking, and watching very closely the movement than any year since opening my business.

Is it good for designers? Well, it -could- be. Get off your keester and figure it. Fast.

Why must you always be so combative??? "Get off your keester and figure it. Fast." :rolleyes:

I've been in this business for over 18 years and have been around the analogue and digital realm of communications and design since digital was just a concept more than a reality. In design, video, photography, multimedia and print.

The primary differences between traditional forms of media and digital media is that traditional forms are primarily push and digital are pull. For B2B, Government and NGO's push is still the dominant form of communication. If you run a digital media company and operate in that milieu then of course that is going to be your mainstay and what people are talking about. Sure there are push forms of digital communications, but if they are legit they are permission based.

If you are a large organization (or even a small organization) that wants to deliver a shotgun message, push is the way you will want to disseminate your message. Shotgun methods are less and less being used as rifle techniques have been shown to have a greater ROI. Nonetheless, particularly for governments and NGOs, push shotgun methods dominate.

Of course any comprehensive marketing plan will make use of both push and pull techniques to varying degrees depending on the potential audience.

The reason why I felt your comments indicated that you were looking primarily at the consumer side of the equation is that digital media is more dominant in the consumer realm and has not made inroads to the same degree in large institutions, government and NGOs.

These are the realms that I see on a daily basis and I know from the thousands of pounds of printed material that come through my office on an annual basis that push, shotgun, printed communication is still dominant. Things are changing yes, but not to the degree that they are on the consumer side of the equation.

groovetube
Dec 26th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Why must you always be so combative??? "Get off your keester and figure it. Fast." :rolleyes:

I've been in this business for over 18 years and have been around the analogue and digital realm of communications and design since digital was just a concept more than a reality. In design, video, photography, multimedia and print.

The primary differences between traditional forms of media and digital media is that traditional forms are primarily push and digital are pull. For B2B, Government and NGO's push is still the dominant form of communication. If you run a digital media company and operate in that milieu then of course that is going to be your mainstay and what people are talking about. Sure there are push forms of digital communications, but if they are legit they are permission based.

If you are a large organization (or even a small organization) that wants to deliver a shotgun message, push is the way you will want to disseminate your message. Shotgun methods are less and less being used as rifle techniques have been shown to have a greater ROI. Nonetheless, particularly for governments and NGOs, push shotgun methods dominate.

Of course any comprehensive marketing plan will make use of both push and pull techniques to varying degrees depending on the potential audience.

The reason why I felt your comments indicated that you were looking primarily at the consumer side of the equation is that digital media is more dominant in the consumer realm and has not made inroads to the same degree in large institutions, government and NGOs.

These are the realms that I see on a daily basis and I know from the thousands of pounds of printed material that come through my office on an annual basis that push, shotgun, printed communication is still dominant. Things are changing yes, but not to the degree that they are on the consumer side of the equation.

That line, wasn't intended for you screature, it is an obvious, rhetorical line, for any graphic artist, print, whathaveyou. The time for waking up was a while ago. Many small shops here are getting a rude awakening already.

I don't know what your environment is. If it's Ottawa, government, then it's going to be very, very different, -massively- different perspective than what we see here in Toronto. I wouldn't be surprised that we would have a different perspective then. I don't expect government to move quickly at all. But don't make the mistake of lumping big corporations here with government, because they are very different realities, as ours, and most of the industry's work with major ad agencies are proving right now.

I have the good fortune to work with some incredibly talented and very respected ad agencies here in Toronto as a subcontractor, and I think a discussion with any one of them might be an eye opener for you. It was certainly for me and I'm in the digital media world. (yes I have a print person in my shop btw). And I'm still continuing, to be surprised at the pace of change.

screature
Dec 26th, 2009, 02:52 PM
That line, wasn't intended for you screature, it is an obvious, rhetorical line, for any graphic artist, print, whathaveyou. The time for waking up was a while ago. Many small shops here are getting a rude awakening already.

I don't know what your environment is. If it's Ottawa, government, then it's going to be very, very different, -massively- different perspective than what we see here in Toronto. I wouldn't be surprised that we would have a different perspective then. I don't expect government to move quickly at all. But don't make the mistake of lumping big corporations here with government, because they are very different realities, as ours, and most of the industry's work with major ad agencies are proving right now.

I have the good fortune to work with some incredibly talented and very respected ad agencies here in Toronto as a subcontractor, and I think a discussion with any one of them might be an eye opener for you. It was certainly for me and I'm in the digital media world. (yes I have a print person in my shop btw). And I'm still continuing, to be surprised at the pace of change.

Before working with government I worked in the marketing communications department of a large multinational high tech company doing business in 9 languages around the world. Of course digital media still had its place but as I said if you want to push your message traditional media is still dominant.

I would suspect that the big corporations that you are talking about are selling consumer products where digital media is becoming the norm. However, in the B2B, high tech manufacturing, industrial sectors, government and NGO realms, push media is still dominant. In the vast majority of cases you have to push your message before someone will pull it. Just because you build it doesn't mean they will come. For how long will this be the case?... who knows...

As I stated in my previous post the difference is between push and pull forms of communication. Until there can be a legitimate (i.e. non-spam) form of digital communication, there will remain a need for traditional means of communication as push is what it does best. It is intrusive and interrupting, digital means are much, much less so. They both have their place and I doubt that digital media will ever (at least for the next couple of generations) completely supplant traditional media.

Obviously traditional media is in decline, how could it be otherwise, it used to be the only act in town, but if I as a communicator I want to interrupt and intrude on your attention, traditional means remain the most effective method of doing so... for now. ;)

groovetube
Dec 26th, 2009, 07:00 PM
BSnip... Of course digital media still had its place but as I said if you want to push your message traditional media is still dominant.

wow. 'still had it's place'. Hmmm.... lol.

screature I think you're being rather dismissive of digital media. I'm being tactful here. That statement, is almost, insane. And don't assume we are not involved strongly, in B2B, as well as many other campaigns. We are in fact, and with some rather large companies, along with some great agencies. Several print brokers in my area, have all gone down. In the last few months. I know them all well, and the message is the same, things have changed in the past year, like no other time. And it's not -just- the recession here.

I don't doubt you know your business well, however. I think this past year has proven to be quite surprising to many of us, and if this year is any indication of what's to come, fasten your sealtbelt my friend....

kps
Dec 26th, 2009, 07:05 PM
Sorry you two, but I couldn't resist.

groovetube
Dec 26th, 2009, 07:10 PM
that's ok kps, what I'm talking about is so old news, you might consider eating popcorn on another channel.
;)

chas_m
Dec 26th, 2009, 07:24 PM
I totally agree, but there are still a vast number of designers who are print based and not all will be able to make the shift...

Yeah, you're looking at one of em!

One of the reasons I "retired" from the graphic design business was because today's print designers MUST ALSO be web-savvy, and I took a very dim view of HTML (still do) and decided that it wasn't worth me learning web design because the real money was in the back-end coding (which turned out to be true), and I walked away from programming before most of the people reading this were born. :)

The point I am making is it will not be good for all designers... there will be losses, whether or not you feel compassion for them is another matter (Adapt or die)...

It's not quite as black-n-white as all that ... some will retire, some will transition to doing something else (perhaps something related, perhaps totally unrelated), some will survive by excelling in their niche ... there are still blacksmiths around you know ...

But MY point is that this sort of thing goes on all the time in every field. From stonemason to web designer, every industry goes from boom to bust. The skills you pick up from them (should) carry you into other areas, adventures and opportunities.

At the end of the day, its more about YOUR ability to absorb, master and parlay your skills creatively, not about how well your "industry" is doing. I trained as an actor, and had some small success as an actor, but I never made a living as an actor. But I use the skills of acting every single day.

The whole point being questioned is whether the paradigm shift will be a good thing for designers and I believe the real complete answer is yes and no. That's all I'm sayin'.

Change is generally good, though of course its often inconvenient. How boring the world would be if everything stayed in one place for too long! Embrace the change! :)

screature
Dec 27th, 2009, 12:26 AM
wow. 'still had it's place'. Hmmm.... lol.

screature I think you're being rather dismissive of digital media. I'm being tactful here. That statement, is almost, insane. And don't assume we are not involved strongly, in B2B, as well as many other campaigns. We are in fact, and with some rather large companies, along with some great agencies. Several print brokers in my area, have all gone down. In the last few months. I know them all well, and the message is the same, things have changed in the past year, like no other time. And it's not -just- the recession here.

I don't doubt you know your business well, however. I think this past year has proven to be quite surprising to many of us, and if this year is any indication of what's to come, fasten your sealtbelt my friend....

As far as my statement of digital media still having its place in the business I was speaking of (which you had no knowledge of what I was referring to btw) being "almost insane", now I suppose you know the business of marketing lasers and laser manufacturing systems better than those who make and sell them. Watching an interactive Flash demo isn't going to get a CFO to lay down $750,000 for a Wafer Repair system. If you think it is... well let's just say... stick to what you know...

I'm not being dismissive of digital media at all. I am very much engaged in it, but it isn't the be all and end all of marketing communications and for many, many businesses it is still an adjunct to all their marketing communications efforts.

I understand you and your client firms have a vested interest in the power of digital media and it is indeed powerful, but no matter how "powerful" it is, it is (like traditional media) a low touch medium. More and more, high touch methods are proving to have the highest ROI. The Asians have known this for years and lead the way in this form of communication and marketing. The building of relationships through personal contact is one of the if not the leading form of building a business/government relations/organization.

As I said of course traditional media is in decline, it was the only act in town and isn't any longer so it has no where to go but down, but does that mean it will disappear any time soon? Not likely. At any rate gt good luck with your business and I hope 2010 is a banner year for you. :)

screature
Dec 27th, 2009, 12:46 AM
Yeah, you're looking at one of em!

One of the reasons I "retired" from the graphic design business was because today's print designers MUST ALSO be web-savvy, and I took a very dim view of HTML (still do) and decided that it wasn't worth me learning web design because the real money was in the back-end coding (which turned out to be true), and I walked away from programming before most of the people reading this were born. :)



It's not quite as black-n-white as all that ... some will retire, some will transition to doing something else (perhaps something related, perhaps totally unrelated), some will survive by excelling in their niche ... there are still blacksmiths around you know ...

But MY point is that this sort of thing goes on all the time in every field. From stonemason to web designer, every industry goes from boom to bust. The skills you pick up from them (should) carry you into other areas, adventures and opportunities.

At the end of the day, its more about YOUR ability to absorb, master and parlay your skills creatively, not about how well your "industry" is doing. I trained as an actor, and had some small success as an actor, but I never made a living as an actor. But I use the skills of acting every single day.



Change is generally good, though of course its often inconvenient. How boring the world would be if everything stayed in one place for too long! Embrace the change! :)

I don't disagree with any of your statements at all in fact I whole heartedly agree with them. But at the same time I am not going to say a glass is full when it is clearly half empty. ;)

For some reason there seems to be the impression that just because I can see that digital media has its yin as well as its yang I am opposed to it when in fact it couldn't be further from the truth. I have always and will always embrace change, it is the only true constant, nothing remains the same. But that isn't what was originally being discussed, it was whether digital forms of publication would be a good thing for graphic designers and to this I still say, yes and no. As with everything there is both yin and yang.

groovetube
Dec 27th, 2009, 11:15 AM
As far as my statement of digital media still having its place in the business I was speaking of (which you had no knowledge of what I was referring to btw) being "almost insane", now I suppose you know the business of marketing lasers and laser manufacturing systems better than those who make and sell them. Watching an interactive Flash demo isn't going to get a CFO to lay down $750,000 for a Wafer Repair system. If you think it is... well let's just say... stick to what you know...


see, THAT is dismissive. Don't for one minute think that digital media, is merely a "flash animation". That may have been so in... 2001?

Welcome to 2010 my friend... :)

I have been involved in very serious B2B marketing and we used far more than, a 'flash animation'. Flash, is but one, of many, many tools, we often don't even use flash. You need strategy, as well as the tools. It isn't just about the technology you use.

Yes, print is very much in decline, though is still widely used, we are still actively using it. Hey I love the printed page. I got my start in an offset shop 25 years ago.

screature
Dec 27th, 2009, 11:33 AM
see, THAT is dismissive. Don't for one minute think that digital media, is merely a "flash animation". That may have been so in... 2001?

Welcome to 2010 my friend... :)

I have been involved in very serious B2B marketing and we used far more than, a 'flash animation'. Flash, is but one, of many, many tools, we often don't even use flash. You need strategy, as well as the tools. It isn't just about the technology you use.

Yes, print is very much in decline, though is still widely used, we are still actively using it. Hey I love the printed page. I got my start in an offset shop 25 years ago.

Man you just don't get it! I know that digital media goes well beyond a Flash demo... it was just an example. :rolleyes: You know nothing, literally nothing about the business to which I was referring and yet you still want to argue about it. :rolleyes:

Christ man give it a rest. I know digital media is a powerful means of marketing and communications and have said so repeatedly.

When it comes to strategy I have been involved first hand with mergers and acquisitions of multi-hundred million dollar deals and the re-branding of companies that we acquired. I think I know a thing or two about marketing communications strategy.

On this subject I am done arguing with you. Fine you think digital media is a god send and panacea for all companies/governments/organizations and will address all their marketing communications needs better than any other method forever more. At least you believe in what you sell. ;)

groovetube
Dec 27th, 2009, 01:19 PM
Oh screature, come now.

"I know that digital media goes well beyond a Flash demo... it was just an example. "

No you didn't. You reduced it to a "flash animation", and don't give me this crap about it being an example. I know what you clearly implied. Or perhaps you didn't communicate it properly.

Here, let's recap it.
Watching an interactive Flash demo isn't going to get a CFO to lay down $750,000 for a Wafer Repair system. If you think it is... well let's just say... stick to what you know...
Really? Oh REALLY?? No crap sherlock!

I don't care if you are the pope. The entire industry knows where things are going, and it isn't about what -I- think. Don't take my word for it. I'm certainly not making this up.

On this subject I am done arguing with you. Fine you think digital media is a god send and panacea for all companies/governments/organizations and will address all their marketing communications needs better than any other method forever more. At least you believe in what you sell.
Anyone in this industry knows that's a pile of crap. Why even spew it...

You know nothing, literally nothing about the business to which I was referring and yet you still want to argue about it.

You're right.I merely dig ditches.
;)

man, if communications is your bag, FAIL.

screature
Dec 27th, 2009, 02:43 PM
Oh screature, come now.



No you didn't. You reduced it to a "flash animation", and don't give me this crap about it being an example. I know what you clearly implied. Or perhaps you didn't communicate it properly.

Here, let's recap it.

Really? Oh REALLY?? No crap sherlock!

I don't care if you are the pope. The entire industry knows where things are going, and it isn't about what -I- think. Don't take my word for it. I'm certainly not making this up.


Anyone in this industry knows that's a pile of crap. Why even spew it...



You're right.I merely dig ditches.
;)

man, if communications is your bag, FAIL.

:rolleyes:

How about this for communications in terms that you can understand. You know nothing about the the laser manufacturing and laser systems industry and what it takes to sell these products, if you did you wouldn't continue to argue the point. Digital media DOES NOT sell these products. NO digital media does. People and the systems capabilities sell the products. Period.

Keep your blinders on and wear your ignorance as a badge of honour. As far as being a communicator it is almost impossible to communicate with someone with no eyes to see or ears to hear.

BTW I don't think I ever mentioned this before but your avatar is an excellent choice. It most accurately depicts your demeanour. :clap:

groovetube
Dec 27th, 2009, 06:01 PM
I know nothing about lasers?

lmfao.

ooookay. Sure. You're right. I don't know a lot about lasers. Nor, do I really need to thanks.

Fantastic communication.