: WARNING in case you take the Yonge exit from Gardiner


macintosh doctor
Sep 17th, 2009, 06:10 PM
so i was driving on to the lakeshore from Gardnier express way to go north on Yonge st.
i took the exit went down the hill (yonge exit). as i have the last 22 years taken the left two lanes to go north on Yonge st.
I was pulled over plus 8 others by the angriest cop ever.
he yelled at me saying it is a single lane left give me your 3 pieces of ID
i asked since when?
he said nothing - cold stare
then asked for my ID
i asked for a caution, he said no- walked away
then said your insurance is expired..
d'oh forgot to grab the new one..
said he was going to nail me for that.. I asked him for a break he nailed already on the no left, he said no..

I told him, come on have a heart man, please
he said keep it up and I will walk around your car...
so I replied you have no heart
he siad i am doing the walk around
I did not know what that meant
so he wrote me a 3rd ticket.. obstruction of rear plate
i said you are nuts - it is an OWASCO frame, all cars have them.. he said you are blocking
yours to discover, i said you are an angry man, he asked do you mean that?
because i can write you up on the tints
i said yes i do ..
he said get in your car and move ..

what an A hole massive one..
not sure what his problem is..
freakn tax grab

bastards - animals they are

tonyrubicon
Sep 17th, 2009, 06:20 PM
so i was driving on to the lakeshore from Gardnier express way to go north on Yonge st.
i took the exit went down the hill (yonge exit). as i have the last 22 years taken the left two lanes to go north on Yonge st.
I was pulled over plus 8 others by the angriest cop ever.
he yelled at me saying it is a single lane left give me your 3 pieces of ID
i asked since when?
he said nothing - cold stare
then asked for my ID
i asked for a caution, he said no- walked away
then said your insurance is expired..
d'oh forgot to grab the new one..
said he was going to nail me for that.. I asked him for a break he nailed already on the no left, he said no..

I told him, come on have a heart man, please
he said keep it up and I will walk around your car...
so I replied you have no heart
he siad i am doing the walk around
I did not know what that meant
so he wrote me a 3rd ticket.. obstruction of rear plate
i said you are nuts - it is an OWASCO frame, all cars have them.. he said you are blocking
yours to discover, i said you are an angry man, he asked do you mean that?
because i can write you up on the tints
i said yes i do ..
he said get in your car and move ..

what an A hole massive one..
not sure what his problem is..
freakn tax grab

bastards - animals they are

i saw a bunch of people nabbed for this last week. they're complete asses about it. one guy was yelling right in the cops face. people are really pissed about this crap. anyone who gets nabbed on one of these ridiculous charges, take it to court. it is complete BS. Toronto popo are complete knobs about the stupidest stuff.

dona83
Sep 17th, 2009, 06:22 PM
Would it have hurt you to not snap back at the popo? Oops I didn't realize they changed that, could you let me off with a warning?

tonyrubicon
Sep 17th, 2009, 06:25 PM
Would it have hurt you to not snap back at the popo? Oops I didn't realize they changed that, could you let me off with a warning?

Theyre complete pricks about it. They nail EVERYONE. There are usually three or four of them that stand out of their cars and point you over. It isnt about education for them, it is an easy money grab because they are guaranteed to nail everyone for at least that offense + any other BS they can think of when they nab you.

dona83
Sep 17th, 2009, 06:46 PM
So what it used to be a 2 lane left turn and now they've changed it to 1?

Niteshooter
Sep 17th, 2009, 06:56 PM
Yup, it was all over the media for the past month. I can see the intersection in question from my office window. They have been making a fortune nailing folks because the signs are not terribly obvious though they have put "NEW" on the one overhead just at Bay which is very misleading because one might assume it is in reference to that intersection.

The only real clue to the change are the lines in the road.

Personally I would go to court, but the odds are that this cop will show up because that was his duty and he probably wrote a fistfull of tickets that day. The prosecutor will offer reduced sentences at the beginning so you could plea to a lesser charge but it really is a bogus hit.

Re the rest, good luck....

HowEver
Sep 17th, 2009, 07:05 PM
Go to court and fight it. It doesn't seem like the lane is clearly marked.

But you really did antagonize the cop. He pretty much offered you a bunch of chances to shut up, and you didn't.

And if you lose on all counts in court (unlikely; or they'll be reduced), it isn't the cop's fault, it's because you drove in the wrong place, carried expired insurance and obscured your license plate. "Stop hitting yourself," as Nelson would say.

Adrian.
Sep 17th, 2009, 07:18 PM
Oink Oink!

What'd you expect?

Max
Sep 17th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Looks like it was a money grab but you didn't help yourself, I have to say. Guys get up in his face, he's going to deal with it and he's a cop. You're a civvie bad-mouthing him, saying he's got anger issues. Well, that just makes him angrier, doesn't it? Best to take it quietly, then fight it in court. What you did was precisely the wrong thing to do. You took it to the next level and the officer obviously felt he was not going to be the one to lose face. He was not about to let you be the one controlling the outcome of the event.

I was given a lot of lip by an older cop in a situation a few years ago and my irritation sure didn't help my case. The next time I got pulled over for speeding, a couple years later, I was actually thanked by the cop for being so courteous. I was caught dead to rights and that was that. Cops do appreciate it when you respect the badge and don't start flipping out... they experience all sorts of nastiness out there in their gig and it doesn't hurt to cool your jets, even if you feel you've been unfairly treated.

But that's nasty, though, that off ramp. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Sure seems like a cynical exercise.

Sonal
Sep 17th, 2009, 08:54 PM
I am always amazed at when someone is asking for a favour, they think that being angry or rude is the best way to get it.

Listen, that off-ramp may be a cash grab. It's not the only spot in Toronto where similar traps are set up. You might have been able to fight that one in court, but you're sunk anyway on the expired insurance.

imactheknife
Sep 17th, 2009, 09:03 PM
Boy am I glad I didn't get him! I was so freakin annoyed driving in Toronto for the first time I think I won't ever drive in there again! I drove to irepair on Yonge Street then took St Clair to Lansdowne and that was UTTER HELL! man! I know it's under construction but again I think I will take the TTC next time! What I thought was a 2-3 hour trip turned into 4-5 hours.

Sorry about your luck with the Cop! Sometimes if they are in a Mood it's best to Zip it but who knows maybe he hasn't got lucky in 10 years and he's about to snap! and you just happened to be there

DS
Sep 17th, 2009, 09:55 PM
Am I understanding this right? You just handed him the wrong insurance card rather than the newest one (which you actually had on you), and he wrote you up for that?

What a dick.

macintosh doctor
Sep 17th, 2009, 10:20 PM
Am I understanding this right? You just handed him the wrong insurance card rather than the newest one (which you actually had on you), and he wrote you up for that?

What a dick.

correct I was being super nice but it was not working - I begged
it was not working so I became irritated with his display of disrespect
towards me. The rest is history.

BTW I re read tickets - it says fail to show insurance so he is wrong.
I showed but the expired one.

Also the plate was covered by the dealer not me you know the trim that says
where you bought it.
Any how I am going to fight it.

Macified
Sep 17th, 2009, 10:37 PM
correct I was being super nice but it was not working - I begged
it was not working so I became irritated with his display of disrespect
towards me. The rest is history.

BTW I re read tickets - it says fail to show insurance so he is wrong.
I showed but the expired one.

Also the plate was covered by the dealer not me you know the trim that says
where you bought it.
Any how I am going to fight it.

Yes you should fight this but you should know that showing expired insurance isn't the same as showing valid insurance. It's not an officer's job to determine if your policy is actually valid. And while the officer is probably wrong about the obscuring your plate thing it isn't a good argument to say that the dealer did it; it's your car and your responsibility. Fight that one on the real grounds not the "not my fault".

tonyrubicon
Sep 17th, 2009, 10:55 PM
I believe you have 48 hours to produce the insurance-- it is like ownership. The only document the TTP doesnt apply to is your license. Take it into a reporting centre and show them the correct insurance doc and theyll stamp the ticket "Produced" and sign off on it. I bet the cop is banking you wont do that and just pay the ticket!

macintosh doctor
Sep 17th, 2009, 11:08 PM
I believe you have 48 hours to produce the insurance-- it is like ownership. The only document the TTP doesnt apply to is your license. Take it into a reporting centre and show them the correct insurance doc and theyll stamp the ticket "Produced" and sign off on it. I bet the cop is banking you wont do that and just pay the ticket!

what reporting centre?
if i take it to court - same thing fight all of them..

tonyrubicon
Sep 17th, 2009, 11:13 PM
They have this for London, but I'm not sure about Toronto. Any ticket I have gotten for failure to produce, burnt out bulbs, no front license plate (lol), I have taken in the ticket and rectified the problem and then they disqualify the ticket.

Traffic FAQs (http://www.police.london.ca/d.aspx?s=/About_Us/Our_Organization/Uniformed_Division/Traffic_Management/Traffic_Faqs.htm)

keebler27
Sep 17th, 2009, 11:42 PM
correct I was being super nice but it was not working - I begged
it was not working so I became irritated with his display of disrespect
towards me. The rest is history.

BTW I re read tickets - it says fail to show insurance so he is wrong.
I showed but the expired one.

Also the plate was covered by the dealer not me you know the trim that says
where you bought it.
Any how I am going to fight it.

he's not wrong about the insurance - you failed to prove valid insurance. this happened to my wife (except she was allowed to provide proof of valid insurance within 24 hrs).

your plate being covered is something all dealers so and it is against the law believe it or not. how they get away with it is insane. i'd go back to the dealer and have them pay you to pay that fine. my wife was stopped for this as well a different time. She asked the cop the same thing - that the dealer put it on - it's illegal. Cop asked her to remove it when she got home.

as for being rude, you just have to keep being polite, even if they're being dicks. They are at the top of the food chain when you're stopped and you just have to realize it. You don't have to like it, but you have to realize it.

Keep your hands on the wheel and if asked to get something, ask if it's ok to reach for it etc... it's the best way to be polite. Think of it from their point of view, they deal with all sorts of ppl all day long. Yes, it's their job, but think of the other idiots on the road messing with them when they stop.

and you reminded me, i need to check my insurance. i know it's up to date, but not sure if i put the latest update in my wallet.

cheers,
Keebler

Max
Sep 18th, 2009, 12:06 AM
Good advice about keeping your hands on the wheel. In my altercation, this cop clocked me going 65 in a 50 zone. He caught me at the top of an overpass and I knew right away I was done. Once he waved me over for speeding I immediately put it in park and reached into my back pocket for my wallet. Big mistake. His whole expression changed in an instant; he immediately unholstered his gun and made to pull it out as he yelled something pretty definitive at me about keeping my hands in plain sight. I stammered that I was just going for my wallet but he was in a real edgy mood and was not interested in any of my excuses. He told me in no uncertain terms not to move. This was a veteran cop, a guy I'd say was pretty close to retirement and I'm guessing he was just reacting to his instincts. Sure rattled my wife and I. He calmed down once he deduced that I was not any danger to him but it was a heart racer for a minute there. He was ok by the end - a gruff sort but I think he was just reacting to the unknown. Once I made it clear that I wasn't going to give him any trouble it was a simple formality of getting the write-up. Not fun but good deal less nerve-wracking than the very beginning of our meet.

Since then I have come around to seeing things more his way. These guys deal with the worst of society and see some truly horrendous and disgusting things in their line of work. It's no wonder that it occasionally rubs off on them and they have a bad day. It sucks when you're the person he's taking it out on but the only way to go is to take the high road and hope that you can sort it out later in the courts.

monokitty
Sep 18th, 2009, 12:38 AM
When you're pulled over, basic principles apply, which seemingly few motorists seem to understand these days. Though I'm sympathetic, you handled the situation less than ideally.

When a cop nails you for an offence, especially an obvious offence, such as driving in the wrong lane like in your case, then in the vast majority of cases, the officer has already made up his or her mind as to whether or not they're going to write you up for the offence before even talking to you, meaning pleading with the officer on the side of the road is a fruitless and aggravating thing to attempt to do. If you disagree with the charge, you aren't to argue it on the road with the officer -- you are entitled to your day in court, so use it!

That said, being disrespectful really doesn't go anywhere.* In fact, specifically in this case, it landed you a third ticket. Not worth it, in my opinion, but to each their own. You're being critical of an officer who's doing his job, and ticketing you, who square and fair broke the law. In reality, you have no case, nor right to criticize the cop for doing his job. Though I agree he may have overstepped the necessities by performing a "walk around," it could have been avoided if you accepted the first ticket and moved on. Officers aren't in the mood to be nice back if the driver isn't being respectful of them.

As for the incorrect insurance, simply go to the Reporting Centre and have it corrected within 48 hours of getting the ticket. (Google it.) That shouldn't be a big issue if you actually do have valid car insurance. As per the other charges, take them to court if you can afford the time to spend there to fight the charges.


*If you get bitchy with Customer Relations at Apple, are they more likely -- or less likely -- to help you with your out of warranty Mac in need of a new logic board? The same logic applies to being pulled over and nailed for an offence by a cop. There's practically no difference between the two examples. If you're not respectful, you aren't helping yourself.

macintosh doctor
Sep 18th, 2009, 10:09 AM
it could have been avoided if you accepted the first ticket and moved on. Officers aren't in the mood to be nice back if the driver isn't being respectful of them.

Lars i know what you are saying..
but I was being nice, but it was falling on deaf ears..
so why should I continue, being nice was getting no wear.
so i drew the conclusion... that he was an ass and no changing it...

Listen, I deal with clients all day, i have some choice clients too. but that does not change my out look - i am nice to everyone no matter what..
except this officer pushed me over the edge for being an ass.

any you are right. i will fight the charges.

HowEver
Sep 18th, 2009, 12:21 PM
I don't think you do realize what they're saying.

This is nothing like dealing with "clients." You were dealing with an officer with a bunch of tickets to hand out, and the ones you got you deserved--or even earned. They deal with people with worse attitudes than yours, sure, but they are going to protect themselves, and in their view, disputing a ticket at the roadside provides them with a chance to give you a lesson.

Driving without insurance? You're lucky he let you drive on. Why should he take your word for anything that important, especially since it wasn't the only infraction, and you were being petulant about it. You could have been *walking* at that point. He might have assumed that your attitude meant that you had no insurance at all. Uninsured drivers are a danger to all, including themselves.

You actually were not being nice. You were disputing obvious infractions. You pretty much did everything but write the ticket for him--all three tickets in fact.

If this still isn't sinking in, you should have a long think about whether you were being "nice" or pushing your expired luck. It's possible that even if the cop was your good friend or relative they would have written you up anyways. Sure, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that people talk their way out of tickets like this, and it happens once in a while in real life, but this isn't the movies.

Next time, say "Sorry about that," nothing else, and see what happens. And practice saying it nicely.




Lars i know what you are saying..
but I was being nice, but it was falling on deaf ears..
so why should I continue, being nice was getting no wear.
so i drew the conclusion... that he was an ass and no changing it...

Listen, I deal with clients all day, i have some choice clients too. but that does not change my out look - i am nice to everyone no matter what..
except this officer pushed me over the edge for being an ass.

any you are right. i will fight the charges.

Sonal
Sep 18th, 2009, 12:37 PM
A good friend of mine is a cop. Your choice clients may be a pain in the ass. Her "choice clients" try to punch her. And I'm sure every person this cop has pulled over that day had been freaking out on him. That gets old, fast.

tonyrubicon
Sep 18th, 2009, 12:37 PM
I have to throw my support to the OP-- those TO cops are pricks when it comes to that turning lane. They pull over blocks of 3 or 4 cars at a time- it is like shooting fish in a barrel. It is horribly marked. Signs disappear around Toronto all the time and get moved around due to construction and such so the fact that something has been that way for many years to dramatically change overnight with little caution, ESPECIALLY when you see three cars in front of you do the same thing, it is a pretty assy move by the Toronto Police Service. They are setting examples instead of more clearly marking the intersection with overhead markings. It is BS and I feel for him-- I would be just as irate if it happened and take every single measure to take it to court. I am NOT disputing that what the OP did was right or just, but understandable. It is not the police officer's fault that he pulled him over, just how it happened. I wouldn't have argued with the cop, but instead argued that the intersection is poorly marked and displaced my negative manner to the city, not the officer. Using this approach, the cop would potentially be more empathetic as my disdain is targeted beyond him, as he is just enforcing a rule that is not clearly marked.

I would shoot videos of people turning left for a given period of time when there is no police presence. I would note the majority of people in that lane are using it as a turning lane, thus proving that the majority of people perceive the lane to be used for both thru and left turns. This argument would support that the intersection is not clearly marked. To FURTHER support the argument, when there is traffic, bad weather, or snow on the ground, the road markings are not visible to drivers, thus further proving my point. Those familiar with the past use of the intersection would continue to use it in the manner which they are accustomed, as there are no signs directing differently. The "new" sign does not effectively inform drivers. Until the intersection is clearly marked in an indisputable manner, you would have a good chance getting off in court if you argue it effectively.... IF you ever get a court date.

imachungry
Sep 20th, 2009, 07:19 PM
The sheeple are out in force in this thread.

I have another point-of-view, one that the sheeple here will brand both dumb and, god forbid, rude: If the cop gives me attitude right off the bat and won't quit, I give it right back to him.

And good.

He has power and I have my rights, and if a cop uses his inordinate power to come down on me and treat me like a 12 year old, I let him know I'm an adult and won't take ****.

Many of you, who I might could call either "practical" or sheep, keep saying "save it for court" and "use your court date". Personally I get satisfaction in letting people who abuse their authority know that I won't be pushed around.

Let me give you my personal example: Last winter, on one of the coldest days of the year, a tractor trailer made a douchebag right turn from the left lane sans turn signal and showered glass all over my body and almost cut my head off. The front of the tractor trailer was literally inches from my head inside my brand new sports car (yes, I very quickly forgot about the car and thought of the value of my life).

The cop arrived within two minutes and I was still in the car and in shock. The first thing the cop said to me was not "are you okay???" but "Sir, please get out of the car and give me your license and insurance!" An asshole from the start. A true asshole.

I could not believe it.

But because I was in shock and still had shards of glass in my underwear--literally--I simply followed orders.

The cop made me stand outside on the street corner, in one of the coldest days of the year for almost a full 60 minutes, dazed and freezing, because the accident had blocked traffic and he was in a very bad mood. At that point, I had not said a single word to him. I was silent, numb.

Eventually he put me in the cruiser and treated me not like a guy who had just had his car and his day ruined by a jackass who made a turn from the wrong lane without a signal, but like a convict. I was incredulous. Silently, I fumed, but I kept it in check.

He said "well it's obvious it was the other guy's fault so I'll have you on your way soon".

A half hour later, he changed his story and said "well, I'm not so sure it wasn't your fault." It blew my mind what I was hearing. "You must be joking! The guy made a right turn from the left lane, never signalled, admitted not signalling and completely bashed me as I drove in a straight line through my own lane."

He then snapped "I have to think about it and I'll give you my decision in a few days".

What????

In 45 years of living in this city, I have never been treated so poorly by a cop. Never. In a time of great need, when you are in an accident and have had the **** knocked completely out of you by a giant truck, the last thing you need is an asshole cop.

Four days later he arrived at my door to tell me he was charging me. I won't describe to you the things I said to him, but I dressed him down in a way that only wisdom and anger together can make something beautiful. It stung. I know it stung. I didn't raise my voice, but I told him that he had singlehandedly made me lose faith in the police in this city, and how this is a very heavy thing.

Postscript: I called my friend, who is a 20 year traffic cop in the same division as this clown. He told me that other cops have no respect for him, as he props up his income by double charging people at the scene. The way it works is that cops get money to appear in court after they charge someone. Even if only one party is at fault, if he charges both parties, he makes double court time.

I was sickened by this when my cop friend told me this. Sickened.

I won't go into the rest, but sometimes all you have in a crooked system is your face-to-face time with the object of your scorn. Cops have become little more than caretakers and commission salesman in Toronto, and it's creating a rot in the system that most Canadians are either too polite or too trusting to scream about. I'm not saying cops are happy about this (I know lots of cops), but these are the facts.

Yes, treat cops with respect, but if cops give you attitude you can give it right back to them, because you're not in Mexico, and you're as human as they are, and you have a right to say so. Might it cost you more tickets? Maybe, but sometimes your pride is more important than your silence.

I will never forget how that cop treated me. Never. I won't make other cops pay for it, and I would be grateful if that same guy saved my life, but in one of the neediest days of my life, this guy was a grade "A" asshole and corrupt to boot. He deserves to hear my contempt face-to-face, and he did.

Something to consider.

Max
Sep 20th, 2009, 07:42 PM
A few things.

You say we're "sheeple." You don't mention us specifically by names, but the implication is unmistakeable. Thanks, that came in loud and clear: I now consider myself judged by you. But I in turn consider your blanket slam cowardly. It's also clear to me that you have anger issues about cops; it should come as no surprise, then, that some officers of the law are going to have a field day with that vibe.

You can certainly have it your way if you insist - and in so doing, keep your idea of pride intact. I don't see the point in it myself. I rather doubt any cop is going to walk away from an altercation with you with an elevated respect for your pride in yourself.

imachungry
Sep 21st, 2009, 10:09 AM
You can certainly have it your way if you insist - and in so doing, keep your idea of pride intact. I don't see the point in it myself. I rather doubt any cop is going to walk away from an altercation with you with an elevated respect for your pride in yourself.

This is a classic sheep comment. Cops deserve respect as they risk their lives for us, but cops who give attitude need an attitude correction to keep them honest. All power needs to be kept in check, and you'd be amazed how often an arrogant cop is snapped out of his fog by a citizen who doesn't just eat his **** and take it to court.

I guess you and I have different approaches. XX)

I would also point out that since I know cops socially, and my brother-in-law is a cop, it never pays to give cops attitude just because. But cops who transfer their problems to you, the poor driver, well, those guys need to know you have the right to give it right back to them to keep things level.

So consider me doing the heavy lifting for you ;)

HowEver
Sep 21st, 2009, 12:14 PM
I have police in the family as well. Opposite to this case, some of them might give attitude after they get it, but they do have to deal with some pretty scummy people. One had a broken leg caused by an arrested person who was in restraints at the station. Others have to deal with arresting child murder suspects. Nice job.

There is no point giving a bad copy a hard time, at the time. Go to the station and file a complaint after. Follow through and don't let them get away with mistreating you. But mistreating them back is not only unkind, it can be fairly stupid. Cops don't always close ranks around their idiot colleagues anymore, so complaining after is not the fruitless exercise it once may have been.

monokitty
Sep 21st, 2009, 01:06 PM
...but sometimes your pride is more important than your silence.

Excessive self-pride has never benefited most people.

Max
Sep 21st, 2009, 09:32 PM
This is a classic sheep comment. Cops deserve respect as they risk their lives for us, but cops who give attitude need an attitude correction to keep them honest. All power needs to be kept in check, and you'd be amazed how often an arrogant cop is snapped out of his fog by a citizen who doesn't just eat his **** and take it to court.

There's that anger again... a classic angry comment, you could call it.

I guess you and I have different approaches.

Oh, yeah. Thankfully.

I would also point out that since I know cops socially, and my brother-in-law is a cop, it never pays to give cops attitude just because. But cops who transfer their problems to you, the poor driver, well, those guys need to know you have the right to give it right back to them to keep things level.

Pretty funny! So I gather you think you're the only one who knows cops socially, eh? Keep thinking that if it helps your pride.

So consider me doing the heavy lifting for you

With friends like you, who needs enemies? Please, I'd rather you strangle your own chances with the police... keep me out of it, thanks.

Sonal
Sep 21st, 2009, 09:35 PM
Great, so while Max's courtesy is calming cops down, imachungry's winding them back up....

Max
Sep 21st, 2009, 10:05 PM
Point of clarification, Sonal: I'm not saying that you must always be incredibly polite if you have a run-in with a cop that's "in a mood." Just don't give him (or her) any reason to get uglier. It's a fine line, yeah.

macintosh doctor
Sep 22nd, 2009, 09:57 AM
The problem is and was this, i started out nice; but when i seen he had a horrible attitude towards me- even with my slight begging... I figured as imachungry said, my pride is in question..
why should i be super nice knowing it would get me no where..

do we live in a communist country or African nation?: that we must bribe our police so all we get is only 2 tickets instead of 4 because he is having a bad day... My parents left eastern Europe so the kids can grow with a fair chance, but that seems to be dwindling away...

It seems that the Police are behaving like Judge and Jury on the road side lately ( so much for our charter of rights and freedom ), picking on the tax paying drivers going to work and home that are trying to feed the family; rather than the crime ridden streets of Jarvis or jane or Finch - it never stops to amazing me that they refuse to do real work but pick on the easy tax paying folks.

The ones to blame is ourselves for allowing it to arrive where it has. Not to mention the Politicians who enact ridiculous road side laws - of allowing Judge Dread to roam our streets - I am hoping soon that will end.

Macified
Sep 22nd, 2009, 10:15 AM
The problem is and was this, i started out nice; but when i seen he had a horrible attitude towards me- even with my slight begging... I figured as imachungry said, my pride is in question..
why should i be super nice knowing it would get me no where..

Nobody is disputing that the "trap" is ridiculous. However, you set yourself up with the attitude. Begging isn't looked on nicely either as it indicates that you aren't willing to take responsibility for your mistakes. There is no need to be "super nice" (which is typically insincere) and going from "super nice" to "super dick" is even worse. Best practice is to stay calm and reasonable. Point your complaints to the system. Take the ticket you are given and fight it where you should. This isn't sheep behavior.

Yes the cop was being an ass but that doesn't mean you need to drop to his level. On the street, at ground level, you will loose. You will then have a much harder time proving that the cop "started it" and that he should be disciplined.

macintosh doctor
Sep 22nd, 2009, 10:25 AM
point taken will take it court as i wanted too.
thank you to everyone's advise, my whole point to this thread was to watch out; the evils one are nailing tax payers without prejudice.

eMacMan
Sep 22nd, 2009, 11:18 AM
The problem is and was this, i started out nice; but when i seen he had a horrible attitude towards me- even with my slight begging... I figured as imachungry said, my pride is in question..
why should i be super nice knowing it would get me no where..

do we live in a communist country or African nation?: that we must bribe our police so all we get is only 2 tickets instead of 4 because he is having a bad day... My parents left eastern Europe so the kids can grow with a fair chance, but that seems to be dwindling away...

It seems that the Police are behaving like Judge and Jury on the road side lately ( so much for our charter of rights and freedom ), picking on the tax paying drivers going to work and home that are trying to feed the family; rather than the crime ridden streets of Jarvis or jane or Finch - it never stops to amazing me that they refuse to do real work but pick on the easy tax paying folks.

The ones to blame is ourselves for allowing it to arrive where it has. Not to mention the Politicians who enact ridiculous road side laws - of allowing Judge Dread to roam our streets - I am hoping soon that will end.

It would be wise to remember that these lunatics carry tasers and have already shown that their willingness use them to excess with very little provocation.beejacon

macintosh doctor
Sep 22nd, 2009, 02:51 PM
It would be wise to remember that these lunatics carry tasers and have already shown that their willingness use them to excess with very little provocation.beejacon

Well said. :)

imachungry
Sep 27th, 2009, 12:12 PM
Cops don't always close ranks around their idiot colleagues anymore, so complaining after is not the fruitless exercise it once may have been.

That is the most stunningly naive comment you could make. Cops ALWAYS close ranks, ALWAYS.

Now do I wish it were otherwise? Oh yeah. But don't kid yourself.

This thread has convinced me again that nothing will ever change in this city as long as the sheep continue to lecture people with legitimate beefs with the cops to shut up and be polite. It's the sickness that makes this city so good and so so bad.

Am I smarter than all of you? No, but I sure know the difference between blind hatred of cops and legitimate anger at misuse of power and chronic corruption, and I use my dissent strategically to keep the system honest. "Taking it to court" provides little satisfaction if you are abused by a cop. It's better to talk man-to-man. You'd be amazed at how satifying and effective it is if you are strategic. :clap:

monokitty
Sep 27th, 2009, 12:49 PM
"Taking it to court" provides little satisfaction if you are abused by a cop. It's better to talk man-to-man. You'd be amazed at how satifying and effective it is if you are strategic.

And it provides even less satisfaction when the cop you're mouthing back at slaps you with additional tickets that you could have otherwise avoided had you accepted your first offence and moved on. If the amount of money in your wallet is regularly less important than your self pride, and can afford the additional fines, then by all means, it's your money -- waste it as you see fit. ;) Personally, I have better things to spend my well earned salary on.

HowEver
Sep 27th, 2009, 01:14 PM
So, is this based on knowing bad cops that have gone down (which is what I know of, through good cops who I know personally) or some ideas you have and always believed?


That is the most stunningly naive comment you could make. Cops ALWAYS close ranks, ALWAYS.

Now do I wish it were otherwise? Oh yeah. But don't kid yourself.

This thread has convinced me again that nothing will ever change in this city as long as the sheep continue to lecture people with legitimate beefs with the cops to shut up and be polite. It's the sickness that makes this city so good and so so bad.

Am I smarter than all of you? No, but I sure know the difference between blind hatred of cops and legitimate anger at misuse of power and chronic corruption, and I use my dissent strategically to keep the system honest. "Taking it to court" provides little satisfaction if you are abused by a cop. It's better to talk man-to-man. You'd be amazed at how satifying and effective it is if you are strategic. :clap:

Macified
Sep 27th, 2009, 07:35 PM
That is the most stunningly naive comment you could make. Cops ALWAYS close ranks, ALWAYS.

Now do I wish it were otherwise? Oh yeah. But don't kid yourself.

This thread has convinced me again that nothing will ever change in this city as long as the sheep continue to lecture people with legitimate beefs with the cops to shut up and be polite. It's the sickness that makes this city so good and so so bad.

Am I smarter than all of you? No, but I sure know the difference between blind hatred of cops and legitimate anger at misuse of power and chronic corruption, and I use my dissent strategically to keep the system honest. "Taking it to court" provides little satisfaction if you are abused by a cop. It's better to talk man-to-man. You'd be amazed at how satifying and effective it is if you are strategic. :clap:

Takin' it to the streets is not the way to solve the problem. You will lose in a direct confrontation and you will have no grounds for a proper battle. Going to court is to fight the charge, not the cop; fight the cop by reporting and following up. That's strategic. Verbally duking it out on the corner is just going to get your ass kicked and make you look like an out of control idiot who will have little credibility when the time comes to put the cop in his place.

SINC
Sep 27th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Takin' it to the streets is not the way to solve the problem. You will lose in a direct confrontation and you will have no grounds for a proper battle. Going to court is to fight the charge, not the cop; fight the cop by reporting and following up. That's strategic. Verbally duking it out on the corner is just going to get your ass kicked and make you look like an out of control idiot who will have little credibility when the time comes to put the cop in his place.

Best post of the thread.

All the numbskulls who get "macho" and argue with the cop, regardless of the situation are fools.

Take your ticket, note the circumstances and follow up through proper channels to lodge a complaint.

If you don't, the term idiot is suspiciously close to the truth, and it likely applies to some posters here.