: Does the GPS feature use data?


bmovie
Jul 13th, 2008, 12:56 AM
Please excuse my ignorance, but does the GPS feature in the 3G iPhone use data that can be charged to your account?

uPhone
Jul 13th, 2008, 01:06 AM
It's a valid question if you're not used to data devices. Yep, it uses your data, and a lot of it, so you should consider a higher data plan like the 6GB for 30$ plan.

bmovie
Jul 13th, 2008, 01:10 AM
even when it just uses the GPS satelites?
Lke the one I have in my car? That is free no?

What if I shut off Edge and wifi, so it would be forced to use the sats, will I be charged?

uPhone
Jul 13th, 2008, 01:21 AM
Satelites are accessed through the data features of your iPhone, not anything seperate. If you turned off your EDGE/3G it would not be able to contact the satelites.

You can use it on WIFI though, although apparently that costs money too with Rogers.

bmovie
Jul 13th, 2008, 01:30 AM
WOW so I guess I'm SOL without a data plan then eh?

Ok thanks for the info.

vd0t
Jul 13th, 2008, 01:40 AM
To clarify: using GPS DOES NOT use data. It's loading the Google maps that uses data. So theoretically, if there was an app that preloads maps on the iphone, you shouldn't need a data plan to use the GPS.

And no, Rogers does not charge you to use the wifi feature (unless of course if you're using a hotspot.. but that's a different story).

krug1313
Jul 13th, 2008, 01:41 AM
I called Apple on this one. If you load the maps from home using wifi and turn of edge/3g it will just use the satellite.

darrenlovesmac
Jul 13th, 2008, 01:46 AM
How do you pre-load the maps? Would you, for example, plan a route, then follow the route on your phone, then go to the car (with the 3G/Edge off)? If you did that, would the phone buffer/cache the maps and know when to use them?
:confused:
Darren

kevleviathan
Jul 13th, 2008, 01:58 AM
I called Apple on this one. If you load the maps from home using wifi and turn of edge/3g it will just use the satellite.

correct, using gps uses no data but loading google maps does.

uPhone
Jul 13th, 2008, 02:38 AM
Oh, I didn't know that, if a program did preload the maps, it wouldn't use data.

Sorry to mislead you bmovie. Although for now anyway it seems like it's using data.

fjnmusic
Jul 13th, 2008, 02:44 AM
I think it may well be possible to use the iPhone extensively without ever having to use data at all, as long as you can get by with WiFi (when available). This device wasn't supposed to be so expensive to operate.

..........?
Jul 13th, 2008, 03:06 AM
Satelites are accessed through the data features of your iPhone, not anything seperate. If you turned off your EDGE/3G it would not be able to contact the satelites.

You can use it on WIFI though, although apparently that costs money too with Rogers.

not really, you need 3G to get the maps in the build in app. The iphone use a combination of towers position, known wifi(hotspot) and the Satelites to get a fix on the location

uPhone
Jul 13th, 2008, 03:28 AM
What am I supposed to address you as? :lmao::lmao: dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot question mark????

NBiBooker
Jul 13th, 2008, 06:58 AM
You can use it on WIFI though, although apparently that costs money too with Rogers.

This is not true.

tleveque
Jul 13th, 2008, 10:30 AM
When an iPhone application request coordinates, the phone coordinate library ask the gps chip. At the same time it try to connect to the third party system to get coordinates from cell towers and wi-fi hot spot data. This USE data.
The first to reply will usually be the towers/hot spot system. But as soon as there is gps data, it will use it. The application then need to keep retrying to be able to get the most precise coordinates.

Then the only way to prevent the use of data, is to block them. Is it possible? I don't know.

Also, I don't know if developers can request coordinates only from the gps service. Anybody know?

Macified
Jul 13th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Also, I don't know if developers can request coordinates only from the gps service. Anybody know?

I have heard rumours that TomTom was preparing a GPS app for the iPhone but as far as I know it's purely speculation. They do have mapping for Win phones and Palm phones so why not iPhones? With maps pre-loaded you don't need a constant Google feed.

purelithium
Jul 13th, 2008, 11:05 AM
uPhone, please stop answering questions for people on subjects that you have no knowledge on. This is the second thread I've seen from you where you've said things that were right out-to-lunch.

Sit back and learn a bit before you post.

ender78
Jul 13th, 2008, 11:14 AM
I'm actually impressed with how little data the Maps feature uses. This makes it plausible to use a little wireless data while roaming in a foreign city. That said, I am still willing to pay dearly for a turn by turn app. That would make my iPhone the perfect device for travel [once unlocked of course]

zlinger
Jul 13th, 2008, 11:21 AM
I seriously hope there will be a way to purchase North American data, load up a city or region, and be good to go with no data or roaming costs.

For example, while doing a road trip down to California without using data or cell minutes on the AT&T or T-Mobile network. It does not have to be Google Maps... could be a Garmin App.

What if I were hiking in the mountains here in B.C. where there is no cell coverage. Can't I just turn the thing on, and let the GPS receiver pickup satellites for the location?

Flipstar
Jul 13th, 2008, 11:46 AM
I seriously hope there will be a way to purchase North American data, load up a city or region, and be good to go with no data or roaming costs.

For example, while doing a road trip down to California without using data or cell minutes on the AT&T or T-Mobile network. It does not have to be Google Maps... could be a Garmin App.

What if I were hiking in the mountains here in B.C. where there is no cell coverage. Can't I just turn the thing on, and let the GPS receiver pickup satellites for the location?

There's shouldn't be any issue with getting a GPS signal. Everyone needs to remember that this is ASSISTED GPS. If you look at the low end tomtoms they only have a GPS chip and it's not assisted by wi-fi or cellular connections.

Now what would also be nice is to actually be able to download ephemeris data so that the iPhone can calculate exactly where the satellites are.

teeterboy3
Jul 13th, 2008, 12:01 PM
When Tom Tom releases this (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/06/10/tomtom-announces-iphone-gps-app), you'll essentially have a data free GPS device.

bmovie
Jul 13th, 2008, 08:30 PM
I called Apple on this one. If you load the maps from home using wifi and turn of edge/3g it will just use the satellite.

This is the answer I was looking for...I didn't understand how I could be charged data from GPS satelites.

Thanks for info.

purelithium
Jul 13th, 2008, 09:39 PM
When Tom Tom releases this (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/06/10/tomtom-announces-iphone-gps-app), you'll essentially have a data free GPS device.

Tomtom has announced that they aren't sure if they will release it or not, because of the restrictions in the Apple SDK forbidding realtime GPS navigation.

TomTom clarifies iPhone GPS application plans | iLounge News (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/tomtom-clarifies-iphone-gps-application-plans/)

adam1185
Jul 13th, 2008, 10:13 PM
Tomtom has announced that they aren't sure if they will release it or not, because of the restrictions in the Apple SDK forbidding realtime GPS navigation.

TomTom clarifies iPhone GPS application plans | iLounge News (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/tomtom-clarifies-iphone-gps-application-plans/)

Hopefully those restrictions Apple has placed in the SDK are only to cover their butts if someone crashes their car or something goes horribly wrong while they attempt to use their iPhone for 'real time route guidance'. That's the way it seems to me at least. TomTom could market their app as something that isn't quite real time route guidance and still be in the clear. Maybe just 'route guidance' without it being officially 'real time'.

fjnmusic
Jul 14th, 2008, 12:58 AM
Tomtom has announced that they aren't sure if they will release it or not, because of the restrictions in the Apple SDK forbidding realtime GPS navigation.

TomTom clarifies iPhone GPS application plans | iLounge News (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/tomtom-clarifies-iphone-gps-application-plans/)

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MacGYVER
Jul 14th, 2008, 01:01 AM
I just wanted to say I really like your avatar. :heybaby:

The real reason why Apple invented the iSight in all portable Macs ;)

thedarkhorse
Jul 14th, 2008, 01:56 AM
Yes the gps uses data, wifi or cellular are used to help the gps get your position quicker.
People have been noting an increase in 3g and edge speed when they turn off location services in the general menu, other apps like the camera also use the a-gps. I think the idea is to keep it on so you don't have to wait long when launching an app using agps.
people have been noticing 100kbps+ speed increases over 2g or 3g when it's disabled, this could potentially decrease battery life. I'm gonna see if it helps tomorrow when I have it off.

kloan
Jul 14th, 2008, 01:59 AM
Hopefully those restrictions Apple has placed in the SDK are only to cover their butts if someone crashes their car or something goes horribly wrong while they attempt to use their iPhone for 'real time route guidance'. That's the way it seems to me at least. TomTom could market their app as something that isn't quite real time route guidance and still be in the clear. Maybe just 'route guidance' without it being officially 'real time'.
Yeah I don't get that though.. it's not like GPS companies like TomTom or Garmin are held legally responsible if you crash your car... there's really no reason I can see why Apple should be against it other than it competes with Google.

bmovie
Jul 14th, 2008, 09:35 AM
Yes the gps uses data, wifi or cellular are used to help the gps get your position quicker.
People have been noting an increase in 3g and edge speed when they turn off location services in the general menu, other apps like the camera also use the a-gps. I think the idea is to keep it on so you don't have to wait long when launching an app using agps.
people have been noticing 100kbps+ speed increases over 2g or 3g when it's disabled, this could potentially decrease battery life. I'm gonna see if it helps tomorrow when I have it off.

But if I have the maps preloaded, how is my data calculated if i'm only using GPS satelite only? Wouldn't it work the same as any of those car or portable GPS units?
I can't see Apple designing a device that would cost so much to operate if you don't have a data plan (which is expensive for the average user)

McAfee74
Oct 4th, 2009, 07:44 PM
I just got a nasty bill after traveling to the US for 1 wk. I had purchased the $10/mth data plan which lowers the data cost to $1/MB.

I apparently used 147MB of data in one week! NO video's or YouTube. Just some emails and surfing.

I checked my data usage since I've gotten the phone (I've had it over a year) and it shows just 453MB that whole time. So I was shocked to see 147MB in one week and it didn't seem possible. I was told by Rogers that the data usage only figures in Safari and not other apps - ie: Google Maps.

I didn't think Google Maps used much data because I'd been watching my data usage since getting my phone and it was never high. I guess the google maps app data usage isn't recorded in your network usages stats though.

I'm getting a detailed copy of the bill in a couple days. It just seems wrong! How could a person possibly know about this! I'd even used the US plan before on a shorter ~3 day trip before and it only cost a buck or two. I thought I used google maps then too.

My bill is 3x higher than it should be! I'm shocked.

kevleviathan
Oct 4th, 2009, 07:46 PM
That's wrong. Data is data, they can't tell if it's safari, maps or what.

It's definitely possible to use 147MB in one week between surfing and email but it's not likely...

McAfee74
Oct 4th, 2009, 07:56 PM
Interesting... I'm going to have to research this further. Would contacting Apple help get to the bottom of it? Or is the data tracking "carrier dependent" and not an iPhone feature?

Considering I've never reset my data usage and I've had the phone over a year and my TO DATE data received is 453MB it seems hardly possible I could use 147MB in one week when my usage pattern hadn't changed that much.

I was using Google Maps but I've definitely used it a lot since getting the phone so I shouldn't see that massive spike in data usage if the usage stats are tracking all data usage.

PS - I should say I wasn't using satellite view (like I usually do). I understand that uses a lot more data.

It must be a mistake if what you're saying is correct. Proving that to Rogers will be the challenge.

Thanks for any info!

That's wrong. Data is data, they can't tell if it's safari, maps or what.

It's definitely possible to use 147MB in one week between surfing and email but it's not likely...

kevleviathan
Oct 4th, 2009, 07:58 PM
The iPhone is notorious for reporting very, very incorrect data usage. It's only really reliable if Rogers tracks it, but they often report incorrectly.

McAfee74
Oct 4th, 2009, 08:04 PM
Well that's a grand f'in $150 + tax lesson. I certainly wouldn't have used it if I had known. Definitely the last time I use the phone in the US.

I consider myself a reasonably smart consumer but I don't see a way out of this one. I mean how does a person argue with their carrier about usage stats? It's really their word vs mine. I'm guessing I'm stuck with it.

Argh!!!!

Thanks for the assistance though.

The iPhone is notorious for reporting very, very incorrect data usage. It's only really reliable if Rogers tracks it, but they often report incorrectly.

HowEver
Oct 4th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Call Rogers, act reasonably, and reasonably make your case. Sometimes they cut the bill in half, sometimes they make it go away, and sometimes they don't. The more reasonable your case, the better: your usage to date is a factor, sounding knowledgeable and mature etc.

Prior to the great data plans available now, in 2007 I had a $10,000+ bill for data for 300MB in two days on a device on which it was technically possible yet tremendously unlikely, but didn't actually happen on my end. I had a $10-$5/month/10MB plan. Rogers completely reversed the bill.

Might take a couple calls, but obviously worth calling about.

Well that's a grand f'in $150 + tax lesson. I certainly wouldn't have used it if I had known. Definitely the last time I use the phone in the US.

I consider myself a reasonably smart consumer but I don't see a way out of this one. I mean how does a person argue with their carrier about usage stats? It's really their word vs mine. I'm guessing I'm stuck with it.

Argh!!!!

Thanks for the assistance though.

McAfee74
Oct 4th, 2009, 11:01 PM
I'm definitely going to give it a shot. I'll keep you folks posted.

Call Rogers, act reasonably, and reasonably make your case. Sometimes they cut the bill in half, sometimes they make it go away, and sometimes they don't. The more reasonable your case, the better: your usage to date is a factor, sounding knowledgeable and mature etc.

Prior to the great data plans available now, in 2007 I had a $10,000+ bill for data for 300MB in two days on a device on which it was technically possible yet tremendously unlikely, but didn't actually happen on my end. I had a $10-$5/month/10MB plan. Rogers completely reversed the bill.

Might take a couple calls, but obviously worth calling about.

mpuk
Oct 4th, 2009, 11:06 PM
I don't think anyone has answered the original question...(a different answer now anyway than from when it was originally asked)

You don't get charged for any data use just by using the GPS features of the phone.

Try using Navigon in the US with Data Roaming turned off...you'll find that the app works great and uses the maps that come with the app, and just your GPS coordinates to help you along your way.