: How do unauthorized dealers get stock?


hhk
May 10th, 2008, 05:17 PM
There are a number of eBay sellers and even a few bricks and mortar stores that sell brand new, Apple products at significantly lower prices than Apple or authorized resellers. My question is, how do they do it? Where do they get their stock?

Heart
May 10th, 2008, 09:48 PM
Where do they get their stock?

Out of the back of a truck.......:rolleyes:

HowEver
May 10th, 2008, 10:05 PM
Out of the back of a truck.......:rolleyes:

A Mac truck?

Trevor...
May 10th, 2008, 11:07 PM
Third party Apple distributors,

kps
May 11th, 2008, 12:00 AM
Third party Apple distributors,

...and here's the 800 lbs. gorilla of technology distribution. (http://www.ingrammicro.com/) Including all things Apple.

monokitty
May 11th, 2008, 12:27 AM
...and here's the 800 lbs. gorilla of technology distribution. (http://www.ingrammicro.com/) Including all things Apple.

You cannot purchase Apple products from Ingram without being Apple authorized to do so.

kps
May 11th, 2008, 01:00 AM
If that was the case, wouldn't all Apple distributors have the same restrictions?

Perhaps Ingram is the only one that abides by it.

I remember the Mac Store in Toronto which was a huge gray market reseller, until they got bought out by MacWarehouse.

There was/is EMJ (http://www.emj.ca/products/), in Guelph, but they don't list Apple anymore.

With my background, maybe I should look into this.;)

monokitty
May 11th, 2008, 01:55 AM
If that was the case, wouldn't all Apple distributors have the same restrictions?

Yes, and those who do not abide by said rules will stop carrying Apple products altogether when/if Apple finds out about it.

Honestly, though, I don't think non-authorized dealers are getting their stock from big box distributors.

jasonwood
May 11th, 2008, 02:07 AM
Even if you could find a way to buy from EMJ or Ingram Micro without Apple Authorization, their prices are only like 4-8% below retail on Apple hardware... you'd be crazy to discount it.

I'd say it's more likely that they buy it posing as students at the Apple education store. Or you're confused and they're not really brand-new CURRENT products.

Also, members of the Apple Consultants Network get $800 off purchases of $3999 or more, once per calendar quarter. They are not supposed to resell but I'm sure it happens.

guytoronto
May 11th, 2008, 08:24 AM
Drive across the border. Buy at the Apple Store at student pricing. Win!

Wait for Future Shop to have them on sale. Buy a couple. Win!

gmark2000
May 11th, 2008, 10:26 AM
Also Developers get hardware discounts for marketing (tradeshows) and for development purposes. These sometimes find themselves in the hands of employees. I had two laptops through through these programs and subsequently traded them here in the past.

simon
May 11th, 2008, 10:29 AM
Refurbs sold as new ... experienced from the personal file

hhk
May 11th, 2008, 11:05 AM
The Ingram theory doesn't wash because of the discounts. We're talking 30% less than Apple retail for stuff like Applecare. Also, the refurb angle doesn't work because they are selling software and Applecare as well as hardware. I'm thinking some sort of overseas arbitrage scheme. In big quantities somehow.

CanadaRAM
May 11th, 2008, 12:58 PM
The Ingram theory doesn't wash because of the discounts. We're talking 30% less than Apple retail for stuff like Applecare. Also, the refurb angle doesn't work because they are selling software and Applecare as well as hardware. I'm thinking some sort of overseas arbitrage scheme. In big quantities somehow.

No, that just is not possible.

Some EBay sellers are just outright frauds... there are no machines at any price.
A few are selling stolen goods.
A few are reselling student or developer machines, but the discounts on those are not deep enough to support 20% - 30% off.

Others are pyramid (Ponzi) schemes, where the first few customers are supplied machines (at a loss) with the proceeds from the next customers so the seller gets an initial positive rating --- the seller then allows a backlog of prepaid orders to build up, claiming shipping delays on the product, and suddenly folds their tent taking thousands or millions of dollars of customers' money with them. Latest "30% off Macs" scheme of this sort was run out of New Jersey, a company called JLI - some online reports estimate $1.6 million stolen. (Don't get complacent about it being a US vendor, Montreal and Vancouver are historically hotbeds of online fraud activity. Remember i phones now dot ca?)

Sadly, some of the early customers of JLI, and even ones who hadn't received merchandise yet, loudly defended the company and even encouraged others to keep buying in the face of serious questions about the company. Of course, it is in the best interests of someone early in the queue to keep other suckers buying, because it increases the chance that they company will remain afloat long enough to deliver their machine. I got roundly flamed for pointing that out...

Ironically, some of the buyers that were stung for up to $300,000 in losses, were engaging in the exact same practice, of selling machines on eBay that they didn't possess, and counting on deliveries of cheap machines from fraud #1 to fill their prepaid orders.

If you have 45 minutes to spare... (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=419818&highlight=What%27s+the+catch)

rampancy_fatalin.
May 11th, 2008, 01:11 PM
I remember the Mac Store in Toronto which was a huge gray market reseller, until they got bought out by MacWarehouse.


I actually remember that The Mac Store was Apple Authorized for a few years before they were bought out by MacWarehouse. I remember them making a big deal out of it back then.

kps
May 11th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Yes, but prior to being "authorised", they were a so called "gray market" reseller...a huge one at that.

They must have gotten their stock somewhere, but where?

CanadaRAM
May 11th, 2008, 01:45 PM
Yes, but prior to being "authorised", they were a so called "gray market" reseller...a huge one at that.

They must have gotten their stock somewhere, but where?

They were bringing it up from the US. Remember those were the days of much larger dealer margins, no AppleStore, and huge spreads between CAN and US pricing.

HowEver
May 11th, 2008, 02:07 PM
So far, none of these answers seem to apply to local unauthorized resellers.

Mississauga
May 11th, 2008, 02:14 PM
Refurbs sold as new ... experienced from the personal fileYup. I know of two Apple product retailers, one authorized and the other not, who have pulled that scam in the recent past.

Trevor...
May 11th, 2008, 06:08 PM
Yes, but prior to being "authorised", they were a so called "gray market" reseller...a huge one at that.

They must have gotten their stock somewhere, but where?

In the old days before Apple abandoned any particular effort in "emerging markets" there were macs sold at cut-rate prices intended for sale at a discount in certain markets finding their way to North America and Europe.

I would imagine they were in on that,

CanadaRAM
May 12th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Exept that IIRC Apple's price in every other country in the world is higher than the US (Canada being a pretty close second lowest to the US)

Daktari
May 13th, 2008, 04:09 PM
So far, none of these answers seem to apply to local unauthorized resellers.

Yes. That is the answer that I'm intrested in.

ApplePie
May 13th, 2008, 05:13 PM
Yes. That is the answer that I'm intrested in.
Me too!

I get some drive/snorkeling equipment thru a big online retailer. Not anything my life would depend upon, but fins etc at a very big discount. Their volume is too high to be stolen. Some of it is last years models but some is the current stuff. No idea how they do it though.

ApplePie
May 14th, 2008, 05:58 PM
^^^ LeisurePro.com (http://www.leisurepro.com/) was the site for dive gear.

Anyways, no original manufactures warranty is provided by leisurepro. They do have their own warranty for the products they sell though and I know for a fact they honour it. The site is well known and the manufactures have to know about them. Grey market goods make the black and white ones look over priced.

CanadaRAM
May 14th, 2008, 06:06 PM
Different products have different profit margins as well. You won't see the discounting on Apple computers that you can see on dive gear or software or accessories or other types of goods.

hhk
May 15th, 2008, 07:04 AM
I just had an interesting experience with a brand new, grey market Mac Mini. I called Applecare about a problem and was told that my telephone support had expired (huh?). I asked if they could tell me the purchase date. They could not but they did tell me my 90 day free telephone support ended two months ago.

So, I have a partial answer to my question. This isn't legit stock. It's being purchased through some back channel. I suspect a developer or partner discount of some sort. Funny thing though, I used to work for Alias, a big software developer, and we never got discounts on hardware. We'd get a handful of free boxes for testing but nothing beyond 2-3 machines.

I don't know where these products are coming from but I admire their creativity.

monokitty
May 15th, 2008, 02:38 PM
I just had an interesting experience with a brand new, grey market Mac Mini. I called Applecare about a problem and was told that my telephone support had expired (huh?). I asked if they could tell me the purchase date. They could not but they did tell me my 90 day free telephone support ended two months ago.

So, I have a partial answer to my question. This isn't legit stock.

Telephone support is 90 days from the purchase date. If said support expired 2 months ago, your Mac mini was purchased/opened/registered 5 months ago from the date you called.

Whoever you purchased the Mac mini from is in some shady business unless they made it clear to you under which circumstances you're buying the Mac mini under.