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Why We Need To Decriminalize Marijuana

14K views 310 replies 41 participants last post by  FeXL 
#1 ·
Because it never makes people stupid.

Police:Child Shows Investigators How To Use Marijuana - Omaha News Story - KETV Omaha

Police charged 25-year-old Lisa Schuchard with felony child abuse.

Schuchard and her live-in boyfriend, Christopher Gladden, both admitted to police they smoked marijuana on a daily basis.

Police originally went to the home to check on the well being of two children in the home, ages 4 and 2.

Investigators discovered drugs, and even a shotgun within reach of the children.

After investigators removed the children from the home, the 4-year-old demonstrated to officers how to smoke marijuana.

Officers found a shotgun by the couch that the children were sitting on, marijuana residue, and a marijuana pipe on the coffee table.
 
#4 ·
I had far too many potheads work for me over the years. Not only did they endanger fellow workers operating machinery, but they became more stupid by the day.
I'll bet dozens of you best employees were casual users. But you're right, just like alcohol, abusers are dangerous to themselves and others. Fortunately we figured out that criminalizing it doesn't work for alcohol. It's only a matter of time before the same obvious approach will be applied to marijuana.

Cheers
 
#11 ·
Gotta disagree with you Sinc; actually you poit really isn't a point against decriminalizing. Just because it would be egal to do so doesn't mean it would be legal to do so at work. Alchohol is legal but I would lose my job if I showed up to work drunk. Same would go for dope. I used to smoke in the past and regardless of whether or not someone did smell and they do I could probably have a 99% accuracy in guessing who was stoned or not.

I think there is a myth of what decriminalizing will incurr....not much from what we already see today. It just means the cops wil stop busting people for it. We aren't going to see a mass exodus of people taking up smoking because it's legal, nor will we be able to pick it up while we do our groceries.

Gateway drug; perhaps but I think that concept is scapegoat based. In many to most cases people who abuse drugs have deeper underlying issues which leads them to drugs in the first place, because pot is the easiest to acquire and not that bad it is usually the first drug tried and is thus labelled a gateway drug.

Smoking a joint on the weekend or having a pint really has no difference; using on a daily basis is where the trouble begins...this would fit for drugs or booze. I don't have an issue in someone partying once and a while; it's when the party doesn't stop that I become concerned.
 
#15 ·
My horizons are and will remain clear while I travel. I don't need a joint to appreciate Ma Nature.

She does just fine all by herself, "no enhancements", thanks.

The wine sounds OK with a good meal, but no music plays at my campground. Good campers know it bothers the neighbouring rigs.

Unless that joint makes you stupid enough to ignore campground protocol, in which case, rock on. ;)
 
#18 ·
I agree that MJ is often a gateway to cigarettes mostly an attempt to cover one stench with another (legal) stench.

As to being a gateway drug I have no idea. I do know there are a number of users attracted to it partly because it is illegal. Take that away and they will gravitate to something worse.
 
#28 ·
Yes, I've often been included in your book of those who "don't get it". In this case I'm happy about that.

Yeah I think I'm clear, SINC. I'm against it, just don't ask me to explain why, is your position.

Oh yeah, and I'm "out of my mind" for promoting legalization, but you don't have to explain that either. No you don't have to explain that.

You don't have to explain any of your opinions SINC, but I wouldn't expect many on ehMac to take them seriously if you can't or won't.
 
#30 ·
Societies view various behaviours as being tolerable or not but most behaviours are scaled such that excess is the problem. It's OK to drink a little (or a lot), but not to drive. It's OK (since its not illegal ) to smoke cigarettes even though it kills millions of people. So why is marijuana treated any differently? Think of the pros and cons to legalization:

Pros:
1. A stable source for patients for which it is the only effective pain relief.
2. Reduction of the massive profits from crime, not to mention the grow-ops that suck $$ from any utility user and are a constant fire risk.
3. Allows law enforcement to focus on other bad behaviours.
4. Brings its use into the open, allowing greater education of its dangers.
5. Brings in major tax dollars for a product that is already widely available.

Cons:
1. Encourages smoking (MJ is as bad for your lungs as tobacco).
2. Promotes acceptability of use of hallucinogens (gateway argument).
3. Is difficult to detect effects yet there is sensory impairment.
4. Will decrease Canadian travel to the Netherlands and hydroponics sector will go bust.
5. USA

The only point that is actually relevant is the last. Legalizing marijuana would cause a reaction from the US that would cause a quick reversal. Canada a sovereign country? Here's the test.
 
#33 ·
Although there would be a strong backlash to the end of marijuana prohibition from certain elements within the US, (as there was when we were close to some decriminalization a few years ago), I believe that the US response would not be as fearsome as some think. At the state level, some are more liberal than Canada is nationally. American public opinion as a whole isn't really that far behind Canada's. I think the main reason that the DEA drug warriors would try everything possible to derail this in Canada is because they know that legalization in Canada would result in the same thing happening there eventually.
 
#31 ·
Perhaps Sinc's arguments aren't the greatest in this debate but it's his opinion and you can't argue someone's opinion; he feels it should stay illegal...fine with me if that's his opinion. You can't really argue opinion, athough it may seem that way but it's his right to have his own thought on this or any other matter...having said that, opinion may be immoral, unethical, uninformed, without proper thought but it's still pretty hard to argue opinion.
 
#35 ·
Nobody said it wasn't his right to have an opinion. I got lots of 'em myself. If you're going to post them on internet forums, you can expect that people will request that you explain them.

Me, I believe our society is controlled by shape-shifting alien lizard people, who take on the appearance of all our government and corporate leaders. That's just my opinion though, don't ask me to back it up. [/sarcasm]
 
#41 ·
Although I have no interest in marijuana, I don't believe that the act of smoking it should be illegal. In Guy's scenario the reckless child endangerment needs to be separated from the act of smoking marijuana. Let them be punished for the harm they do. Let them be punished for being high while looking after children, but not for the act of smoking in isolation.

Similarly, I don't care how wasted people get with alcohol--but make them fully responsible for whatever harm they cause while inebriated.

Leave Shaggy alone, if he just smokes up in his basement while listening to Led Zeppelin.
 
#47 ·
... Let them be punished for the harm they do. Let them be punished for being high while looking after children, but not for the act of smoking in isolation.

Similarly, I don't care how wasted people get with alcohol--but make them fully responsible for whatever harm they cause while inebriated.

Leave Shaggy alone, if he just smokes up in his basement while listening to Led Zeppelin.
Excellent post MF. It's nice to be able to find a topic on which we are in complete agreement.

Cheers
 
#43 ·
"Johnny smoked a rock of crack, and almost had a heart attack
Billy smoked a bunch of pot, a little hungry was all he got"

Anyone who is putting forth the argument that weed is bad and should be illegal and hasn't even tried weed in the first place can't say anything. That's like saying Apples taste bad when you've never eaten one.


Pot is harmless. Infact i had some pot last night.
 
#44 ·
Anyone who is putting forth the argument that weed is bad and should be illegal and hasn't even tried weed in the first place can't say anything.
Worst argument, ever. I haven't tried stabbing someone just yet, but I don't need to go there to realize it's probably not a good idea. (Well, perhaps it might do some some good.) ;)

The people who say pot is 'good' are the people who will take that argument to the grave with them, hoping to win the government's support to their side somewhere in between.

Pot is harmless. Infact i had some pot last night.
1. Sure. We'll let you believe what you want in order to let you sleep better at night. :rolleyes:
2. We don't need to know that.
 
#46 ·
Honestly, why does it matter if marijuana is good or bad for you? Why even have that argument? If you say that a woman has the right to determination of her own body and therefore has the right to receive an abortion, why not extend the same right to some dope head to determine what he/she does with his/her body?
 
#48 ·
bryanc: We could probably agree on many areas where government efforts and funds are absolutely wasted. By the time you eliminate them, the remaining budget for actual social programs and useful endeavours would look like such a bargain that few would bother arguing about it.
 
#51 ·
bryanc: We could probably agree on many areas...
Sure... but where would be the fun in that?!?

It certainly seems obvious to me that the cost to society of trying to enforce stupid legislation against marijuana (and failing miserably) is far greater than the potential cost of decriminalizing or even fully legalizing it.

I've got no personal stake in this, as I don't smoke anything, but this is just such a no-brainer that I'm quite angry with our politicians that there's even any debate. It's like the gay marriage non-issue. Why are we wasting time with these discussions when the solutions are so obvious?

Cheers
 
#76 ·
Welcome to the new Millennium. Oh wait, it happened last century as well. And the century before that....and......

It people were here making admissions to serious crimes, well then, that's something completely different.

If the lawmakers can break the law, why can't we?
 
#81 ·
Sometimes laws become obstacles to the evolution of society, Sinc. Someone has to take a stand. Otherwise we'd not have this thing we call civilization.

But at this point, over pot, I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree... saner that way.
 
#86 ·
Right on Black, thanks for being honest. I'm more than twice your age and I've probably done much (and maybe more) of what you described in my salad days. I grew up in a prohibitive household that not only taught me to take alcohol and drugs seriously but it also taught me to lie and hide my experimentation. I still take them very seriously but now I no longer have to lie and hide. Unjust laws always demand to be broken, fought and repealed. Really, if they would just legalize it I'd become a farmer by the end of the month.
 
#87 ·
Unjust laws always demand to be broken, fought and repealed. Really, if they would just legalize it I'd become a farmer by the end of the month.
Fought and repealed? Certainly. Fight for successful repeal is fine.

Broken? Sorry, you deserve to pay the price if you deliberately choose to break any law you happen to disagree with.
 
#88 ·
Every time we fail to learn from history.....it cost more....

Prohibition: No Liquor Allowed: Alcohol Unlawful, Bootleggers and Rumrunners Filled A Thirsty Need

Prohibition in fact backfired. Instead of eradicating the manufacture and sale of liquor, it sustained and boosted it to the point that its use in both the United States and Canada was even greater and more widespread,” said C.H. Gervais, author of The Rumrunners, a Prohibition Scrapbook.
Bootleggers and smugglers made fortunes

The business of booze exploded. Liquor bought from distilleries in Canada was smuggled across the border. In Detroit, Michigan, across the river from Walkerville, Ontario, illegal liquor sales were second only to the booming automobile industry. Bootlegging flourished. People bought alcohol under the guise of obtaining it for their own supplies (or for shipping it to another destination – Cuba was often listed on a B-13 Clearance Form issued by Canada Customs) then they evaded authorities, lugging liquor across the US border “with skaters on sunny afternoons, tourists crossing on the ferry boats... strapped to underclothing, inside brassieres, in stockings, in boots, up coatsleeves, in tires in cars.” The booze was delivered to covert Speakeasies and saloons, and sold to quench their thirsty customers.

Fortunes were created during Prohibition, millions of dollars changed hands illegally. Before long, mobsters such as Al Capone caught wind of the money being made, and organized large shipments from distilleries across Canada into the United States on airplanes, in larger boats and through railway cars, marked as other goods. Capone was said to have made $100 million a year from beer bootlegging. The Windsor/Detroit corridor was one of the busiest areas, rum-running in the Maritimes and Quebec also made history. The Canadian Encyclopedia quoted one fisherman, “I could make more money running one load of booze than I could in a year on the fishing boats.”
sound familiar....it should.
Legalize, control, tax ...be done with it......

It is so seriously stupid that tobacco and alcohol is legal and marijuana offenders clogging up the court systems.

Right now all it does is set the stage for ridicule of the law in general as this aspect is so seriously and obviously stupid.
 
#89 ·
If you asked me ten years ago what I thought would be legalized first between gay marriage and marijuana, I would have said marijuana.

It amazes me how entrenched our system is with keeping it illegal. I can't see any reasonable argument as to why it would remain to be so. How anybody can argue that tobacco and alcohol should be legal while pot not, is perplexing.

I only know one person in my generation (under 35) that feels strongly that pot should remain illegal. So, I guess it is only a matter of time until we take power and make changes. Worst case, it will be another 20 years.
 
#92 ·
I don't know many in my generation (50ish) who really think pot usage is in need of prohibition either. But polls show there still is a significant minority who buy into "reefer madness". I don't know if it's so much an age thing, just that those who are susceptible to irrational arguments and fear-based reasoning uncritically accept the war on drugs mantra.

I know some folks even older than SINC who relax with a joint now and then. ;)
 
#90 ·
Prohibition and the failure of it to snuff out alcohol consumption is often sited as the justification for legalizing drugs. But I have some questions about the prohibition years that maybe someone else has information of and would like to share.

1. Alcohol abuse is widespread among youth these days. Were youth getting waisted back then on the weekend? And if so, was it as common as it is today?
2. Was there the ratio of alcohol related accidents causing death and injury that we see today compared to non impaired accidents?
3. Was there a similar percentage of alcoholics as todays numbers?
4. Was it as socially accepted as it is today in the general population? I know countless people that can't do anything of a social or athletic nature without a 24 involved.
I guess what I'm getting at is that we claim prohibition failed and that can be said is true of its ultimate goal. But did it reduce the number of victims of alcoholism? Was alcohol and the problems attached to it as common then as they are today?

Cheers
MacGuiver
 
#91 ·
I imagine there might be some info out there to be googled that could answer your questions. I should be heading for bed soon so I won't do the research.

I think that during alcohol prohibition there was probably a reduction in alcohol usage, because people had to go to greater links to get it. So in that sense there probably was some reduction in the direct problems of alcohol use. No doubt alcoholics went to the necessary lengths to keep themselves supplied though, legal or not.

But there were many other costs to society that prohibition increased. First, and not insignificantly there was the cost to the freedom of perfectly reasonable people who had to submit to police telling them what they could and could not do. There were no doubt costs to users of the illegal stuff, since the unregulated black market supply could be tainted and poisonous. I would assume that there were not insignificant amounts of deaths due to tainted black market booze. But the big cost to society in my mind was the enabling and enhancement to organized crime that prohibition provided. The small time criminal gangs involved in providing booze to the masses grew to immense power and wealth. The brief experiment with prohibition capitalized them for generations and they spread their wealth and power to many other areas after prohibition ended. Part of the fight against organized crime resulted in the corruption of many police and politicians, often leading high up.

Here's an interesting chart, comparing murder rates in the US with prohibition and the War on Drugs highlighted:



The war on drugs has been going on for much longer than alcohol prohibition. You can be sure there are powerful criminals who don't want it to end, probably some who even can buy the influence of politicians. It has been shown that in many places where there are large drug squads there has been much police corruption even in (gasp) the COTU.

The whole idea of prohibition is premised on the irrational fear that we can't treat adults like adults because "demon rum" or "demon mary jane" will cause the general population to run amok and self-destruct. It's just not true. Sure there are vulnerable people who will have problems and they will be with us whether prohibition exists or not. We would be better off as a society to spend just a fraction of the billions we waste on drug wars on addiction research, treatment and help for the few who need it.
 
#94 ·
Among my generation including my relatives and friends, all from rural Saskatchewan and Alberta, all age 55 and over, are not, and never have been users of marijuana.

None of them have any desire to see it legalized either.

Drugs are not any kind of issue in our lives in any situation and all of us agree it should remain illegal.

(Although, some of us have had very bad experiences with offspring who began using pot and graduated to cocaine that has caused much strife.)

Simple as that.
 
#95 ·
Drugs are not any kind of issue in our lives in any situation and all of us agree it should remain illegal.
"I have no issue with -blank- and have never touched -blank- or been involved with -blank- yet i have to disagree with -blank- and keep it illegal in a court of law.

What you're saying makes no sense. I'm not a Scientist and neither are you, neither of us is qualified to make the assumption that Weed is bad or good (Which i had mistakenly done in an earlier post). I, however have experienced Marijuana and can therefore judge it more than someone (you) who has not done it or even had any contact at all with.

I'm sorry if i sound like a jerk questioning and picking apart your comments. It comes from the way i was raised. I was raised to question things around me and see the lies if there were some, raised to question the truth of authority instead of following it blindly and taking authority as truth. That is why i don't see the logic in people pretending they are scientists and people criticizing something they have had absolutely no contact with, whether it be Marijuana, homosexuality... you name it.

Before i ever had contact with Marijuana i was very against it because of adults telling me 'how bad it was' and how it will 'ruin my life if i smoke it'. I was lied to blatantly and purposely made scared of something that should not at all be considered a drug, none the less an illegal drug.
 
#272 ·
I have had far too much first hand experience with the effect of drug use on a family and am in a much better position to comment on what I have experienced with addiction than you will hopefully ever know.
2 things. 1/ I am in a similar boat as you, only Alcohol is the cause, 3 of 5 families in my immediate relations torn apart due to alcohol. (The other 2 are very happy recreational weed smokers with careers in the $50,000+)

and 2/ when you say drugs, you mean weed right, 'cause that's the topic. not Coke, Heroin or whatnot.
 
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