: Is iPod Touch as great as I think it is ? ? ?


saxamaphone
Nov 25th, 2007, 12:36 AM
So I went and fiddled with one at futureshop the other day (no apple store in calgary... yet). I browsed the internet, i whipped through a large music collection, i watched a movie, i checked out some youtube vids, i futzed around... where is the weakness? I dont need a cellphone because work pays for one for me and we will never get iphones. so what is the elephant in the room that i am not seeing? I think this is a great piece of technology. Lets leave price/capacity out of the picture for the moment since that is only a matter of time.

But really, what a slick piece of kit. Is there some other major weakness I am not seeing?

MacDoc
Nov 25th, 2007, 12:54 AM
It's brilliant - period.
Staff love the ones I gave them and we recommend them highly.

Be careful of shortages tho - they are THE hot item this holiday season and Apple is saying no more until Jan to the dealers from what I've been told.

psycosis
Nov 25th, 2007, 01:03 AM
Only 16 gigs.

TheBat
Nov 25th, 2007, 01:08 AM
I found the screen too small for browsing the internet. Guess I won't be getting one.....

a7mc
Nov 25th, 2007, 01:41 AM
I found the screen too small for browsing the internet. Guess I won't be getting one.....

That's because you haven't mastered the art of the double-tap. Obviously, the screen is too small for full pages. But the software is so smart that double tap zooms into the area you want to see quite easily and extremely accurately. It takes some getting used to, but once you figure out the double tap and pinch zooms, it becomes quite easy to surf on the Touch (or the iPhone in my case).

And the 16GB (or 8GB for that matter) is not as big an issue as people make it out to be. 99% of iPod owners only listen to a fraction of their song library regularly. And 8GB still holds around 80+ hours... (3.5 days!!!) of continuous music. That's WAY WAY more than most people ever need.

A7

kloan
Nov 25th, 2007, 01:52 AM
lol... i totally forgot about the double-tap for zooming web pages.. i've been zooming with the pinch only.

thanks for the reminder! :)

Atroz
Nov 25th, 2007, 07:55 AM
But really, what a slick piece of kit. Is there some other major weakness I am not seeing?

I've had one for a month or so. I'm pretty happy with it. The major weakness is more of a location issue. Lots of the cool features need WIFI access, if you don't have it, then the feature set goes way down. This is where a Cellular model (iphone) would be better, but terribly expensive.

psycosis
Nov 25th, 2007, 08:24 AM
And the 16GB (or 8GB for that matter) is not as big an issue as people make it out to be. 99% of iPod owners only listen to a fraction of their song library regularly. And 8GB still holds around 80+ hours... (3.5 days!!!) of continuous music. That's WAY WAY more than most people ever need.

A7

The reason it is such a big issue is that it forces people like me to change the way they use their iPod. I am used to syncing up all my music and playing what I went, when I want. I don't want that to change.

meall
Nov 25th, 2007, 08:26 AM
I ordered mine the day it was announced from the online store, and since, I've been playing with it almost every day.

The only things missing on it, are those other iPhone apps that works great on the iPhone too. I hope that, in January at MWSF, when they will officially announce a dev kit for iPhone and iPod touch, they will release a new software update that include those.

Otherwise, its the perfect iPod I need.

Fink-Nottle
Nov 25th, 2007, 09:13 AM
I've been using mine for a month and it's a great product:
-Web browsing is sensational. I wear mine on a neckstrap and I can easily surf one handed while drinking a coffee.
-Calendar and Contacts are both great to use... although I too am looking forward to the other iPhone applications.
-The screen is great and movies look good. I'm watching the Rome miniseries on it. I love having my photos on it. The photo zooming gesture with two fingers always knocks everyone out.
-I'm getting better on the keyboard... it's okay; probably no worse than the ones on Blackberries etc.

One complaint I do have is that you can't pause the unit or adjust the volume without looking at the screen. I find this annoying while commuting and someone talks to me etc. I've suggested to Apple that a "triple tap" of the home button should pause it. I'll probably end up buying a remote control to resolve this.

ps1
Nov 25th, 2007, 09:55 AM
In brief this is a great device given the parameters that you outlined (no interest in replacing an existing cell phone). I'm a heavy user of my iPod (minimum 1 hour per day in commuting) however I've found I actually take it up to bed now and watch a few clips from YouTube or from various video podcasts now as well.

To save a bunch of retyping you can have a look at this blog post of the Top 5 things I'd do to improve the Touch from a couple of days ago:

Thoughtful Wheaten: Top 5 Things To Improve the iPod Touch (http://thoughtful-wheaten.blogspot.com/2007/11/top-10-things-to-improve-ipod-touch.html)

(Note there is a third party solution to viewing video on webpages that I haven't tried yet).

The biggest barrier being the availability of third party apps is now being addressed with Apple agreeing to launch an SDK in February hopefully solving this issue.

The point above by Fink relating to operating without looking at the screen in terms of the lack of exterior volume buttons is a great point and something I should have added to my post.

Go ahead and buy the Touch you won't regret it.

harzack86
Nov 25th, 2007, 10:17 AM
The reason it is such a big issue is that it forces people like me to change the way they use their iPod. I am used to syncing up all my music and playing what I went, when I want. I don't want that to change.

That's one good reason, and the other one IMO, is that this device eventually provides the ability to watch movies, which are by far consuming much more space...

Give me an iPod Touch with the Classic's 160 Gb hard drive and I'll buy it in a hearbeat... With 16Gb, I'll just wait for the SSD memory to grow in capacity and lower in price until I buy one.

MacGuiver
Nov 25th, 2007, 10:35 AM
It would be awesome for students on campuses with good wifi coverage if you could use skype on it. A student could probably get by without a cell phone and you'd be able to talk all you like for cheap cheap. I'm sure apple will keep that from happening though given that it could detract from iphone sales.

Cheers
MacGuiver

TrevX
Nov 25th, 2007, 11:05 AM
The Touch is an amazing device for sure. There is nothing else out there that even comes close. Its even better once you jailbreak it and load all those iPhone apps on there. Mine has become significantly more useful since loading Mail and Google Maps on it (not to mention the NES emulator!). I used it to find my way around Montreal and it was indispensable. I sometimes just find myself lying in bed and surfing the web on it. Its amazing!

Trev

meall
Nov 25th, 2007, 11:50 AM
Give me an iPod Touch with the Classic's 160 Gb hard drive and I'll buy it in a hearbeat... With 16Gb, I'll just wait for the SSD memory to grow in capacity and lower in price until I buy one.

Personally, I had a 40 gig iPod photo before. I never really full it. I cannot have video on it, that helps a lot with having enough space on it.

But I perfer to have a 16 gig iPod touch, than having a thicker iPod with more capacity. with the touch, I can put it in my shirt pocket and it does not weight too much, neither it is too thick to have a brick in your pocket. And anyway, in one day alone, I cannot listen to all the 16 gig content, so why should have badder with it.

That said, I bring my touch to the office for use at a "break lunch", while with my older iPod, I was not really happy to bring it with me as too thick.

Even if I would have like a 32 gig version, I'm not sure I would have paid the premium price for it. That said, it may depend on what's your needs are, but for me the touch is just the perfect device!

mguertin
Nov 25th, 2007, 12:02 PM
Biggest downfall to me is lack of space. I have an 8G and it's just enough to get the stuff I need on it. I have to constantly switch up audio and videos but such is the price I suppose.

Also it's still kinda buggy. The last Apple firmware update for it has killed my alarm functionality (it goes off with audio maybe 1 out of 8 times now if I'm lucky).

The iPhone apps are a big bonus, hope apple includes them at some point. Also once there's a real SDK for it (and hopefully apple doesn't cripple it too badly) it will truly be a Palm killer. A couple people out there say that the input pins for audio devices are all there, so with any luck external iPod mics will work with them at some point.

All-in-all very happy with my unit. It just needs some more bug-fixes and polish from Apple.

Oh lastly, the screens are not really that great. If you like watching dark videos (like sci-fi/space stuff) you may be disappointed with the results on the screen. The black levels and curves are not great, but overall I would have to say I'm very happy.

harzack86
Nov 25th, 2007, 12:37 PM
But I perfer to have a 16 gig iPod touch, than having a thicker iPod with more capacity. with the touch, I can put it in my shirt pocket and it does not weight too much, neither it is too thick to have a brick in your pocket. And anyway, in one day alone, I cannot listen to all the 16 gig content, so why should have badder with it.

I agree with your points here, and it works well when you're using your iPod for commuting. I was more thinking of its usage when leaving for a 2 or 3 weeks trip, with lots of plane and waiting involved, and even possibly uploading digital pictures on it so I don't need to bring a laptop with me...

An example of such device (although really bulky I agree) is the Epson P-3000 or P-5000 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06093004epsonp3000p5000.asp). I guess we're just trying to think about the iPod use for different markets, which explains our different points of views :-)

saxamaphone
Nov 25th, 2007, 02:02 PM
thanks for all the input. i think i will wait for second rev to get a little more capacity but other than that im sold. i could see how google maps would be awesome to have on the go. guess i'll have to hack it :)

meall
Nov 25th, 2007, 02:20 PM
I agree with your points here, and it works well when you're using your iPod for commuting. I was more thinking of its usage when leaving for a 2 or 3 weeks trip, with lots of plane and waiting involved, and even possibly uploading digital pictures on it so I don't need to bring a laptop with me...

An example of such device (although really bulky I agree) is the Epson P-3000 or P-5000 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06093004epsonp3000p5000.asp). I guess we're just trying to think about the iPod use for different markets, which explains our different points of views :-)

The way you describe it, I agree. But for this, I still have my old iPod, which I won't sell, just because I will get almost nothing from it. It can work with the camera connector that Apple as provided at some point (I have this) to transfert pictures to it from digital camera. Even there, my new Nikon D40 is equipped with a 4 Gig SD card, which limits the need for transferring data from it.

But would I benefit from an iPod with very huge capacity such as 160 gig, not really I think. Personally I like the Touch for what it is, ideal for listening to podcast and video podcast, music and browsing the web. It is small and very high performer. And having the old iPod for higher capacity storage is still a good second iPod to keep around.

meall
Nov 25th, 2007, 02:21 PM
thanks for all the input. i think i will wait for second rev to get a little more capacity but other than that im sold. i could see how google maps would be awesome to have on the go. guess i'll have to hack it :)

If you want one, buy one now, because I think the next rev should only comes next September, which is a long wait!!! :rolleyes:

legendz
Nov 25th, 2007, 05:04 PM
I think the only flaw or setback is the how the music interface is. It is built for the touch screen which is great but I might have some trouble to get used to it. Like, it isnt a bad thing, it just might need some getting used to. That isthe thing for me. Other than that, there really is no flaws. Its Apple, they are flawless:D
lol, im hoping my parents get me a touch for my birthday.

powz
Nov 25th, 2007, 08:18 PM
One complaint I do have is that you can't pause the unit or adjust the volume without looking at the screen. I find this annoying while commuting and someone talks to me etc. I've suggested to Apple that a "triple tap" of the home button should pause it. I'll probably end up buying a remote control to resolve this.

Unfortunately, according to Apple's website, the iPod remote is NOT compatible with the Touch. Besides the lack of physical buttons, the real dealbreaker (for me) is the steep pricing. I know the OP asked us to leave it out of the picture, but I think it's an important consideration when discussing the value of a product. As it is, I'll just wait for future revisions.

Vexel
Nov 25th, 2007, 08:53 PM
I don't think the price is unfair at all. :)

Fink-Nottle
Nov 25th, 2007, 09:22 PM
There are a couple of other remotes that do work and the Apple Radio Remote will probably work eventually... it might just require a firmware update on the Touch.

Given what it does I didn't have a problem with the price. It's not just an iPod anymore... it's PDA with a big screen, wireless connectivity and tonnes of potential.

powz
Nov 25th, 2007, 11:55 PM
There are a couple of other remotes that do work and the Apple Radio Remote will probably work eventually... it might just require a firmware update on the Touch.

Given what it does I didn't have a problem with the price. It's not just an iPod anymore... it's PDA with a big screen, wireless connectivity and tonnes of potential.

Could you provide some more info on the remotes that work? I guess that's one problem (somewhat) solved.

As for price, it's relative. Two years ago when I bought my first gen iPod nano I was willing to pay $299 for it. Nowadays you can get a Samsung P2 that does a lot of what the Touch does (less wi-fi but does have bluetooth) for significantly less and a very capable PC (gasp) for about the same price. I just can't bring myself to pay that much for a Touch, especially considering that there will almost certainly be a price drop (and feature upgrades) in less than a year. As for PDA use, yes, it has a lot of potential, but Apple reportedly won't release the software developer package until February of next year, so a lot of useful programs probably won't be out for a while (unless you like hacking). For me, those are enough reasons to wait...I'm sure others are willing to pay a premium for the latest and greatest and I have no problem with that...

alphacrumb
Nov 26th, 2007, 01:11 AM
Could you provide some more info on the remotes that work? I guess that's one problem (somewhat) solved.

As for price, it's relative. Two years ago when I bought my first gen iPod nano I was willing to pay $299 for it. Nowadays you can get a Samsung P2 that does a lot of what the Touch does (less wi-fi but does have bluetooth) for significantly less and a very capable PC (gasp) for about the same price. I just can't bring myself to pay that much for a Touch, especially considering that there will almost certainly be a price drop (and feature upgrades) in less than a year. As for PDA use, yes, it has a lot of potential, but Apple reportedly won't release the software developer package until February of next year, so a lot of useful programs probably won't be out for a while (unless you like hacking). For me, those are enough reasons to wait...I'm sure others are willing to pay a premium for the latest and greatest and I have no problem with that...

The Samsung P2 is a nice kit, but what sells the Touch is its million-dollar GUI. It's intuitive, it's fast and responsive, and is an absolute joy to use, even two months later. The wi-fi is also something that should not be relegated to a mere feature, either -- it completely changes the whole concept of an iPod, since surfing with the Touch's Safari is the best I've seen in a mobile device. (This coming from a guy who's been using various iterations of Pocket PCs, Handheld PCs, Psions, and Blackberries for the last ten years.)

As for hacking the Touch, I found it was almost as easy as installing a new app in OS X (at least for firmware 1.1.1.). (The free stand-alone Solitaire out now is worth the effort alone.) Adding Maps, Mail, and Weather required a few more steps, but it's worth finding the help to get them installed if you're not familiar with programs like Cyberduck.

A nice remote that works perfectly with the Touch is the Belkin SportCommand. It's wireless, with a flexible dongle antenna and a weather-proof remote that can attach to the included armband or you can clip it to your knapsack. (I just keep mine in my coat pocket.) Now that winter has come, it's great to not have to take out my Touch just to turn up the volume or fast-forward to the next track. In my week of testing out the SportCommand, the battery drain has been unnoticeable with two hours use per day. (I unplug the dongle when I don't need it -- like at the office or at home). The remote is extremely light and flexible -- you can throw it across the room without worry LOL -- and, because it's weather-proof, you don't have to worry about it getting wet. Price at BestBuy: around $40 Cdn.

http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/releases/uploads/assets/media/thn/F8Z076_product.jpg
http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/releases/uploads/assets/media/thn/F8Z076_sleeve.jpg

powz
Nov 26th, 2007, 05:04 PM
Thanks for the thorough response and the great pics to boot :D

As I said, some people may enjoy the Touch now and all the power to you... It just hasn't reached critical mass for me to want to fork out the $$$ for it (yet). It could just be that I spent all my $$$ on my MBP...:rolleyes:

Call me a spoiled consumer, but for a $300-400 device, whose primary purpose is still to play music, I do NOT want to have to pay an additional $40 for a remote to get very basic functionality that should have been included in the first place.

My point with the hacking is not whether it's hard or easy; the point is that all the software that requires hacking is (by definition) unsupported and therefore probably not the best choice for serious PDA use (e.g. reading/writing files for office work, etc.). It won't be until after Feb. 2008 that the full potential of the Touch as a PDA-like device will be realized.

RE the P2, bluetooth is not to be disregarded, either. It allows the P2 to pair with a bluetooth phone (with a future firmware update), potentially giving it wireless access in more places than the Touch. And at 1/3 less than the Touch (199 vs. 299 for 8 gigs on sale) it may offer the better value.

Finally, as I implied before but should probably make more explicit, there's also the issue that the Touch is in Gen 1. Everyone knows that Gen 1 products will have problems that will be ironed out in future revisions (the Touch screen problems come to mind...). For all these reasons, I'm just not willing to fork out my hard-earned money for one just yet.