: This is what MS is prepping to compete with OS X??


NBiBooker
May 6th, 2004, 01:08 PM
Wow. I think they are screwed on this one.

From Thurott's "Supersite".

Can you say Friggin Ugly Interface (FUI)?
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_ui_06.gif

interact
May 6th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Already I can hear Mother saying ...

"Where am I?!?!?"

Holy overload!

monokitty
May 6th, 2004, 01:29 PM
LOL

That is definitely one of the ugliest interfaces I've seen for Windows. tongue.gif Microsoft just lacks good, let alone decent, taste and style.

used to be jwoodget
May 6th, 2004, 01:29 PM
Looks like a cross between OS 9 and NeXTStep. Hmmm... only 5 years behind. Wonder why it needs 2 gigs of RAM?

LongYawn.

capitalK
May 6th, 2004, 01:36 PM
actually, yah, it looks a lot like NeXTStep or BeOS

(( p g ))
May 6th, 2004, 02:25 PM
Considering the tall order of system requirements, talk about underwhelming! I'm completely puzzled by the design team's fixation with the clock...why would anyone want something like that to take up so much UI space?

Without sounding too smug, my mind boggles at what OSX will be offering in comparison by the time this eyesore is ready to ship in 2006-07.

TroutMaskReplica
May 6th, 2004, 02:26 PM
is there any space on the screen where you can actually get some work done?

i like how they blatantly ripped off the OS X analog clock...

Macaholic
May 6th, 2004, 03:24 PM
PC MAGAZINE notes "similarities" between longhorn and OS X :rolleyes:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=445

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1585533,00.asp

Macaholic
May 6th, 2004, 03:28 PM
What's the deal with the expanded Start Menu flopping itself all over the shortcut menu to the Accounts folders?!! tongue.gif

That's SLOPPY, man! graemlins/lmao.gif

Loafer
May 6th, 2004, 03:31 PM
What is that graphic underneath "pin a contact to bar" (whatever that means)...

it looks like a folder with an arrow into a bizaare looking trash can with a handle on the side.

jonmon
May 6th, 2004, 03:55 PM
Ugh that huge bar on the right is ugly. Looks like the screen is set to 640 x 480 it's so cramped tongue.gif I'd rather use the turqoise plain desktop of Windows 95

iPetie
May 6th, 2004, 04:11 PM
Looks like you will still need to Defrag that sucker from the desktop shown. That alone, leaves it behind Panther (Hell, Jaguar) for day to day utilization.

How big will drives be by then, Should only take a couple of hours. graemlins/lmao.gif graemlins/lmao.gif

Macaholic
May 6th, 2004, 04:19 PM
Loafer, I think that mean that you can attach a contact from your Addressbook to that bar (which is retractable, BTW) for quick reference...

Either that, or they're giving you permission to meet up with someone and get loaded. I'm not sure either way! Actually, there'll probably be A LOT of "pinning a contact to the bar", when they all get together to mourn that they upgraded to Longhorn :D

Aint I a stinker?

AdrianL
May 6th, 2004, 05:52 PM
From this picture it seems as though Microsoft is just adding features and extentsions to the tradtional Windows lay out. Instead of keeping it intuitive and simple it seems messy and busy, as opposed to OSX's simple and intuitive design and features.

.... looks like a bloated Win XP with nicer graphics.

I'm curious to see how and if they'll try and create an alternative to Expose' !!!!
graemlins/heybaby.gif

Heart
May 6th, 2004, 05:53 PM
They are definitely building the interface themselves but might have a little help with the rest of the the OS.

At the Thurott's "Supersite" that NBiBooker referred to, it seems they let a couple of important screen shots get through.

Set up should take about 25min but at the half way point you get this screen.
;)
http://homepage.mac.com/harts/ehmac/4074_09.gif
:confused: graemlins/nuts.gif

iPetie
May 6th, 2004, 05:55 PM
More Screen shots available here:

http://www.activewin.com/screenshots/longhorn/

This looks like the same old stuff. Any improvements sidebar would appear to be M$'s answer to OSX menubar.

Bizarre, but windows users will eat it up I'm sure.

AdrianL
May 6th, 2004, 06:08 PM
On that huge side bar under quick launch there is a button that says "show desktop" could this be how they'll try and emulate Expose' ? They could make it work so that if you click on the IE icon in that bar it'll only show IE browsers... etc etc.
:confused:

NBiBooker
May 6th, 2004, 07:15 PM
I can't stress how stupid I think that massive sidebar is.

Wow.

fuel156
May 6th, 2004, 08:00 PM
WHo the hell hire's the UI designers?
Looks like High School art stuff.
Better yet what do they smoke?

wow I can't believe the stuff MS pulls off.

WOW
graemlins/lmao.gif

Strongblade
May 6th, 2004, 08:40 PM
Wow... that's ugly, with a a capital UG!

Seriously. This is really sad. For Microsoft's sake, I really hope they put some MAJOR revision.

Not that M$ failing miserably and landing inthe 'beleagured' classification would have me shedding many tears...

:cool:

Chealion
May 6th, 2004, 10:52 PM
It is an unfinished product, and I've said before that I thought the sidebar was a horrendous waste of space. However, I've changed my opinion.

Considering this product will be released in 2007, and is expected to run on machines with 2GB of RAM and a terabyte of storage, monitors would be large also, meaning a sidebar that more effectively utilizes the horizontal space on larger screens. Comprable to many blog layouts, vertical information bars like seen in Longhorn just may well be a smart idea. Is it perfect yet? No. Is it nice to look at yet? Not in those screenshots. But a nice example of how it can be used is shown here on a blog on LonghornBlogs (http://longhornblogs.com/robert/).

It's nowhere near finished, so I give the benefit of the doubt to Microsoft, but it's still ugly and not as nice as Mac OS X hands down. However that side bar can be intriguing if done right, not as wide and without those moronic space gobbling clocks. Either that or combine the task bar and sidebar.

Macaholic
May 6th, 2004, 11:52 PM
That analogue clock speaks volumes on Microsoft's screwed up design prioirities. "Look! An analog clock! Nifty! It's so retro and "real". Meanwhile it takes up too much space. Surely, there's a prefernce to hide it... but it's not Microsoft's preference -- and it's a telling one. I'm glad I live within Apple's esthetic.

Macaholic
May 7th, 2004, 12:01 AM
Just checking out some screenshots of Longhorn. Why do they have an analog clock AND a digital clock on the desktop? Holy redundancy, Batman!

http://www.activewin.com/screenshots/longhorn/Image20.jpg

But I have to say that it at least looks nicer than the blotchy blue of XP's Luna.

Macaholic
May 7th, 2004, 12:09 AM
I know I'm on a rant, here, but check this shot out:

http://www.activewin.com/screenshots/longhorn/Image6.jpg

Hmm.. a monochrome Corporate Logo. Its windows were so colourful before, just like Apple's before. And now, it's changed:

http://www.chez.com/uvinnovation/site/images/introduction/apple_logo.gif

http://www.starthomepage.com/custom/images/windows/windows_logo.gif

http://www.ginndigital.com/computers/apple-logo.jpg

And now, the one in that shot refernced above.

Coincedence??

Orion
May 7th, 2004, 05:11 AM
"It seems that the greatest challenge for Microsoft will be simulating the stability of Mac OS X" (from AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=445))

If they simulate it the same way they simulated OS X's interface there will be a lot of rebooting. ;)

Macaholic
May 7th, 2004, 08:17 AM
LMAO Orion!

About the cramped space, on that desktop, folks. Check out the aspect ratio for the monitor those shots were taken on. It's a pretty traditional "computer monitor" dimension. That sidebar won't be SO BAD on a monitor or TV with a widescreen dimension.

AdrianL
May 7th, 2004, 09:03 AM
12, 14 and 15 inch Laptops may have a hard time utilizing that side bar, unless they can make the same utitlities and functions in a slim horizontal strip. the problem with horizontal bars is the text needs vertical space.

oryxbiker
May 8th, 2004, 03:16 PM
Now that is UGLY. Even Windows 3.1 looks better.

howing
May 9th, 2004, 12:37 AM
windows = bad bad bad
apple = good good good

hilarious.

oatmeal
May 9th, 2004, 03:01 AM
graemlins/scream.gif WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP!! LongHorn should be called BongHorn .. graemlins/heybaby.gif What are these guys at MS smokin? It really doesn't look that much different than XP, which lacks and sort of style, and what's with the tool/info bar on the right hand side of the screen?? I dunno ... I'm drunk tongue.gif graemlins/lmao.gif

MaxPower
May 9th, 2004, 10:13 AM
Did anyone hear what the hardware requirements for Longhorn is supposed to be?

Well, here they are:

Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today. More can be learned from this Article. (http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1581842,00.asp)

howing
May 12th, 2004, 02:13 AM
says who that Longhorn is competing with Mac OS X?
what makes you think that Mac OS X is significant enough to compete with Longhorn?
Longhorn could be crap and it wouldn't make a difference.

wake up people....

Macaholic
May 12th, 2004, 02:44 AM
Tell that to Bill Gates. He's the one who confesses at every WINhec (certainly his year's and last year's) that Windows apps are STILL not easy enough to use and are not attractive enough in appearance. He's the guy who teams up with HP to build "a concept PC" called Athens last year that is everything a red-blooded PC user hates -- and is every bit a Mac: stylish, closed architecture; little (if any) in the way of cracking the case open and swapping out the mobo. Why? because he sees some of the wisdom of building "the entire widget" like Apple does... and has for years.

gordguide
May 12th, 2004, 01:32 PM
Longhorn requires a minimum 64MB of video RAM to run in the "eye candy" modes (pretty much the screenshots we've seen in this post).

32MB is acceptable but will produce a limited-video mode desktop that Microsoft describes as being "familiar to users of Windows 2000".

As for the "look" of the highest mode desktops, to my eye they look very much like Linux/X11 desktops (which are very customizable; so those who've not played around with X11/KDE/Gnome probably wouldn't see the resemblance).

The difference is on X11 you can pick one that works (and doesn't have to look anything like these screenshots), while you're going to be stuck with Microsoft's desktop to a large extend once they decide what, exactly, it will be.

I would expect Longhorn to have some major changes by the time it ships, so exactly how relevant the previews are to what will actually be in the box is difficult to say.

Still, those who are running the preview seem to like it (which may delay any GUI Usability improvements to the point where it's too late to change). I'm not sure what to say about what that says about Windows developers, but there you go.

Macaholic
May 12th, 2004, 01:47 PM
If it appears to be an improvement on XP, Gordguide, then I suppose the developers think it's a good thing. But, of course you know....

howing
May 12th, 2004, 02:05 PM
Would do you know about Windows developers?
Do you have a copy of Longhorn to use and evaluate? I think it's unfair for anyone to criticize something they've only seen pictures of and haven't used... Much like Windows users who bash OS X even before they've even seen it. I see similarities between you and them.

So what if Microsoft admits his software is still too hard to use? He's absolutely right now, isn't he? When was the last time you heard Steve Jobs admit his own fault?

Macaholic
May 12th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Would do you know about Windows developers?
Do you have a copy of Longhorn to use and evaluate? I think it's unfair for anyone to criticize something they've only seen pictures of and haven't used... Much like Windows users who bash OS X even before they've even seen it. I see similarities between you and them.Dude, if all the netizens of the world didn't comment on something they didn't know of first-hand, web traffic would decrease by two-thirds! Everybody does it, in all topics of interest (computers, fly-fishing, you name it). WHY?? Because it is called (or once was called) 'The Information Superhighway". We can see with our own eyes the information distributed from the source as well as the opinions of others, filter it and formulate an opinion. See how that works?

So what if Microsoft admits his software is still too hard to use? He's absolutely right now, isn't he?I POSTED that observation about Gates' comments at WINhec in response to YOUR OPINION that Mac OS is irrelevant (QUOTE: "says who that Longhorn is competing with Mac OS X? what makes you think that Mac OS X is significant enough to compete with Longhorn?". So don't give me the "so what" routine. It may be small in quarterly marketshare (which isn't the same as installed userbase, BTW -- which is small too, but not as small), but Apple's engineering is definitely recognized, scrutinized and modeled by more than just Microsoft. Apple matters.

When was the last time you heard Steve Jobs admit his own fault?“Our actions today will hopefully set things right. As the old business proverb says: Good companies make mistakes. Great companies fix them.” (http://www.themacobserver.com/news/99/october/991018/g4apology.html)

"Jobs has been critical of Microsoft in the past, though not
for business reasons. In a television documentary last summer about the history of the computer industry, "Triumph of the Nerds,'' Jobs said, `The only problem with Microsoft is that they just have no taste. They don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products,''.
Jobs later called Bill Gates personally and apologized (http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/july97/0632.html).

On killing OpenDoc (http://www.winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/17044/17044.html): [i]"[I apologize for being] one of the people who put a bullet in your technology...[but Apple needs to focus] and focusing is about saying no. The rest of the world wasn't going to use OpenDoc anyway, so why should Apple do it?"

Don't know if THIS counts -- but he DID apologize: Seybold Keynote, August 1998 (http://seminars.seyboldreports.com/1998_san_francisco/ETAPE_02.html): [i]"we introduced the PowerBook G3s. The demand for these things has totally outstripped our forecasts. We haven't been able to make enough and I apologize. We are making a lot more of them going forward."

There's more, but it takes up too much time to Google.

You let me know when Microsoft issues an apology for their failed attempt at a secure OS, okay? I won't be holding my breath for that, however, as Microsoft's true attitude is illustrated in this 2002 interview with Steve Ballmer (http://news.com.com/2008-1082-830229.html):

Q: Against the backdrop of the transition to .Net and the recession, what's going to be the toughest nut for Microsoft to crack in 2002? What's at the top of your agenda?

A: Number one, we really have to work on these trust and quality issues (oh REALLY?? --Macaholic). I'd really put that as job one. We have to work harder, smarter, better, more effectively. I could defend parts of our record and can feel ashamed of other parts of our record. I just feel we have to scale our game up, and we're dedicated to that...Everybody's read Bill's memo (on focusing on security) on that. It's trust and quality, trust and quality.


Q: The Gates memo made clear the importance you're now putting on trust and security. But it seems somebody's been asleep at the switch. There's a palpable sense of frustration out there. The feeling is that Microsoft products are just full of security holes.

(okay, here it comes -- Macaholic)

A: For years, I would say, customers thought things were fine. If you go look at our customer surveys two years ago, security was not (an issue) that would have shown up at the top of the list...and it actually doesn't show up high on the list except through the lens of security today.

AH! So, as long as THE CUSTOMER was oblivious to the security issues buried DEEP within Windows' proprietary secret code, then Microsoft seemed to NOT CARE about it, themselves. It was only at the point when the ramparts of Redmond were being stormed by hacked and infected angry villagers did Microsoft change their agenda. Sorry, but THAT is unacceptable. It is Microsoft's code. They have developed it for years and years. Their priorities, however, caused negligence. With the extent of Windows' installed base, Microsoft has a fiduciary obligation to make the most secure OS in the world. it was only when OTHERS noticed, however, that they got scared and changed their focus. Kind of reminds me of Firestone's tires a few years ago.

And BTW, since Bill Gates' email memo to MS staff two years ago, Windows has been subjected to the worst onslaught of viral attacks in its history.

So, you let me know when Microsoft apologizes for causing BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars in data loss and downtime.

[ May 12, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Macaholic ]

TroutMaskReplica
May 12th, 2004, 03:26 PM
ok howing. your recent posts have been repetitive. you sound like a grade school teacher chiding his students. it's clear you have no opinion of the recent developments regarding longhorn. we get it. :confused: