: Real or scare tactics?


adagio
Sep 24th, 2007, 05:25 PM
Damaged iPhones (http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=companyNews&storyid=185239+24-Sep-2007+RTRS&WTmodLoc=InvArt-L2-CompanyNews-2)

Apple claims those who have hacked their phones using unlocking software may be taking a big risk. They claim the next update could make the iPhone permanently inoperable and of course it won't be covered by warranty.

Apple could be full of it or they may be right. Personally, I won't be following the herd to buy an iPhone in the US.

I know some of you will say that you simply won't apply anymore updates. Great... but what you own is a hobbled iPhone that won't be able to add new features as they come along.

Just something to think about. ;)

kloan
Sep 24th, 2007, 05:42 PM
Why would they do that, honestly. There's no reason they should start attacking us just because we too want the iPhone, since it's STILL not offered here officially.

I have a feeling even if they DO brick the iPhone with the next update, these hackers are going to figure out a way to bring em back to life.

adagio
Sep 24th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Steve Jobs is on record as saying Apple will do whatever it takes to stop the hacks. I believe he's obliged to with his contract with AT&T.

I wouldn't take it as a personal vendetta against Canadians. ;)

Mrsam
Sep 24th, 2007, 05:51 PM
Well, someone unlocked it I'm sure someone will find a workaround for updates.

kloan
Sep 24th, 2007, 06:01 PM
It's a little rediculous though refusing to honour warranties just because someone's loaded some 3rd party apps onto the phone. Unless they can prove that doing so was the sole cause for the LCD to die, or the bluetooth radio to die, or the battery to die, then I don't see how they can justify turning people away and refusing to honour warranties.

Well, hopefully there will be someone brave enough to test the waters when the update comes out. I could care less about the wifi store, but if they bring out any new apps or games, then I'd want in on that. The 3rd party stuff pretty much sucks anyway... well, so far.

JumboJones
Sep 24th, 2007, 06:26 PM
It's reported here too.

MacNN | Apple: unlock may damage, void warranty (http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/09/24/unlock.may.void.warranty/)

Good for them though, if you're too impatient to wait you don't need a warranty.

Not sure if this is possible, but if need be can't you just format it and reinstall the system software before getting it serviced? Back it up first of course!

Trevor...
Sep 24th, 2007, 06:34 PM
It is pretty difficult to brick a phone permanently via a software flash unless it is deliberate.

Even the cheapest motorola phones will go into a hardware level serial flash mode when unbootable. I can't imagine the iPhone doesn't have a fail-safe hardware level flash mode.

adagio
Sep 24th, 2007, 06:36 PM
Kloan, Apple sure can void your warranty. Did you read the license agreement?

""Users who make unauthorized modifications to the software on their iPhone violate their iPhone software license agreement and void their warranty," the company said in its statement. "The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty."


More on unlocking (http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/09/24/iphoneunlock/index.php)

teknikz
Sep 24th, 2007, 06:39 PM
I would definetly boycott apple , sell my gear and tell my family and friends to do the same.

I dont even own an iPhone , Apple is within its rights to revoke warranty.
But they can't destroy other peoples property just because they didn't operate it in the way apple wanted.

Anyone who says Apple is justified is a major fanboy with no spine. Thats bullshit a company ruining your personal property to enforce a contract THEY made with someone else.

kloan
Sep 24th, 2007, 06:46 PM
Kloan, Apple sure can void your warranty. Did you read the license agreement?

""Users who make unauthorized modifications to the software on their iPhone violate their iPhone software license agreement and void their warranty," the company said in its statement. "The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty."


More on unlocking (http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/09/24/iphoneunlock/index.php)
What's your point? I know they can. I said it's rediculous and unjustified.

Plus, "The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty." is insinuating that it's because of the unlocking or 3rd party apps that the iPhone may become inoperable, when in fact if that does indeed happen, it's because they designed the update to do it. Think about it...

Mississauga
Sep 24th, 2007, 06:56 PM
Oh, sure... get the "hungry" masses riled up! I can see the protest marches now; buses full of angry Canuckistanis heading to Cupertino, fudged iPhones in hand.

heh heh

adagio
Sep 24th, 2007, 07:04 PM
Oh, sure... get the "hungry" masses riled up! I can see the protest marches now; buses full of angry Canuckistanis heading to Cupertino, fudged iPhones in hand.

heh heh
:D

Garry
Sep 24th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Once again, it looks like this comes down to people who failed READING 101.

I could see being upset IF:

1) Apple never advertised the fact it was going to be sold through AT&T exclusively, If they HAD then maybe you would have had a CHOICE in whether or not you wanted to USE AT&T. If you did get an iPhone, if you didn't don't get an iPhone.

2) Apple Canada announced the phone was available, but it was pulled for some strange reason..

3) It wasn't DESIGNED to be unlocked and people would have to work around the CLOCK to try and figure out HOW to unlock it, and maybe by rewriting the firmware

Anyone in Canada that decided to take the jump before it was released up here, and use a hack to get it to work, takes their chances, IMO. Just because you wanted to be one of the first and bring one across the border, doesn't mean it wouldn't have pitfalls.

I'm not that sympathetic. People that decided to take the leap good on ya, However you knew the risks going in. No sense whining over something you knew would have probably happened eventually. Just don't upgrade your phone. Then don't cry if some feature is added down the road and you can't use it.

used to be jwoodget
Sep 24th, 2007, 07:28 PM
1. Apple presumably has to demonstrate the will to keep its phone locked otherwise there's a clause in the AT&T contract (and the O2 and other contracts) that releases them from paying Apple $$ for service. It's just like companies have to sue to protect IP infringement. If you don't make an effort to protect, you are essentially giving up any protection.

2. Any one who thought that Apple wouldn't try to keep one step ahead/behind of unlocking should look at the reason for continual updates of iTunes. Nothing new here whatsoever.

3. The vast majority of people who buy an iPhone don't unlock it. Like it or not, pissing off a few Canadians is not going to affect the bottom line anywhere near as much as losing the AT&T/O2 revenue. Uncle Ted probably demanded Apple block the unlocking software (or at least scare a few people) before Rogers would continue talks.....

4. Apple needed to go public on this as it releases them from stupid lawsuits (which are all about wasting money, not winning). It doesn't mean the next update will brick an unlocked phone. Canadians have no choice but to unlock if you want an iPhone now. So, we will either have to wait for the next hack or simply reconcile the fact that these phones are forever stuck in a time warp. It's not as though Apple promised these devices would work off the campus.... Apple is unlikely to go after unlocked phones specifically, but is just firing a warning shot.

tacsniper
Sep 24th, 2007, 07:50 PM
I wonder did apple actually unlock one of their iPhones using the softwares on the net and tried updating it with their new patch and found that it screws up the phone... or are they just saying it to keep AT&T happy.

meall
Sep 24th, 2007, 08:08 PM
On MacNN:
The company said that unlocking an iPhone may render an iPhone useless after applying future software updates: "Apple has discovered that many of the unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage to the iPhone's software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future Apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed."

So, what Apple is saying is that it is likely to do arm to unlocked iPhone, not that they will issue software to destroy the iPhone. From what I understand, Apple team has studied the hacks and saw which flaws the hack did to the phone's software. From there, they have concluded that some hack could make a software update a killer machine, not intentionally, but but problems causes by the hacks themselves. That could be modified files or deleted ones, replaced ones and so on.

But, as some as mention, hacking the phone is already in contradiction to the term of use. Same as if you take a copy of OS X and use it on a computer it was not meant to be used (a standard PC or an older modified mac model). So, in my opinion, Apple is in its right to protect itself from hacks that are not their responsibility.

Demosthenes X
Sep 24th, 2007, 08:20 PM
I would definetly boycott apple , sell my gear and tell my family and friends to do the same.

I dont even own an iPhone , Apple is within its rights to revoke warranty.
But they can't destroy other peoples property just because they didn't operate it in the way apple wanted.

Anyone who says Apple is justified is a major fanboy with no spine. Thats bullshit a company ruining your personal property to enforce a contract THEY made with someone else.

Then you're a fool. By buying an iPhone, you enter into a contract with Apple. In the fine print of that contract it is made clear that installing unauthorized programs on your phone can void the warranty.

I find this interesting, though: I know with vehicle warranties, if you modify your vehicle the company is legally required to provide warranty unless they can prove the malfunction was caused by the modification. I would think it would be the same for the iPhone (i.e. that unless they can prove the screen died because you hacked it) they have to warranty it...

That said, people who really want an iPhone will not be deterred. The first hacks required opening up the phone and soldering, which certainly killed the warranty, and people still did it.

Uncle Ted probably demanded Apple block the unlocking software (or at least scare a few people) before Rogers would continue talks.....

I doubt it. Rogers (and Fido, owned by Rogers) is the only major network in Canada that can run the iPhone. I don't think they have to worry very much about Canucks unlocking the iPhone to use on other networks, since there is no alternative up here.

DR Hannon
Sep 24th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Hold on people!!! The article also says you can restore you Iphone and get warranty. Apple is not disabling the phones the software is. Here is a link to the article. Take the time to read it.

MacDailyNews - Apple: Do not unlock iPhones; many unlocking programs cause irreparable iPhone software damage (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/14991/)

kloan
Sep 24th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Hold on people!!! The article also says you can restore you Iphone and get warranty. Apple is not diabling the phones the software is. Here is a link to the article. Take the time to read it.

MacDailyNews - Apple: Do not unlock iPhones; many unlocking programs cause irreparable iPhone software damage (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/14991/)
Good grief!

"We are not doing anything proactively to disable iPhones that have been hacked or unlocked," Phil Schiller, Apple's head of worldwide product marking told Reuters.

It would be nice if all of these frickin websites posting this 'story' would post the WHOLE THING, and not just the first part of it to freak people out. Really, really annoying.

Thanks for pointing that out Dr.

An Old Soul
Sep 24th, 2007, 11:09 PM
There will be, always, a way to hack the iPhone moving forward. Only when the hardware is changed will the hacking get more difficult again. You will see, within a matter of days if not hours, that the unlock/activation process now available will be restored with the newest software update.

The Dev team has, with each passing day, learned more about the internals of the Phone and the way in which the system operates. Any changes in software updates can be analyzed and compared, and its modifications found easily.

Apple is certainly obliged in contract with AT&T to make a 'vocal' effort to maintain their partnership through exclusivity protection actions.

But keep in mind everyone that unlocking a phone is NOT illegal in the U.S., or Canada for the matter. If it can be proven that the software based modifications do not damage hardware or hardware functionality, and that the phone's legitimate use has been thwarted by Apple Inc., lawsuits will eventually be filed and Apple will lose.

Daktari
Sep 25th, 2007, 04:30 AM
There will be, always, a way to hack the iPhone moving forward. Only when the hardware is changed will the hacking get more difficult again. You will see, within a matter of days if not hours, that the unlock/activation process now available will be restored with the newest software update.

The Dev team has, with each passing day, learned more about the internals of the Phone and the way in which the system operates. Any changes in software updates can be analyzed and compared, and its modifications found easily.

Apple is certainly obliged in contract with AT&T to make a 'vocal' effort to maintain their partnership through exclusivity protection actions.

But keep in mind everyone that unlocking a phone is NOT illegal in the U.S., or Canada for the matter. If it can be proven that the software based modifications do not damage hardware or hardware functionality, and that the phone's legitimate use has been thwarted by Apple Inc., lawsuits will eventually be filed and Apple will lose.

I've read comments all over the internet about what Apple said and I think you have to understand there is a tinge of schadenfreude going on in quite a bit of them. ;)

TheDirtyOne
Sep 25th, 2007, 12:44 PM
I would definetly boycott apple , sell my gear and tell my family and friends to do the same.

I dont even own an iPhone , Apple is within its rights to revoke warranty.
But they can't destroy other peoples property just because they didn't operate it in the way apple wanted.

Anyone who says Apple is justified is a major fanboy with no spine. Thats bullshit a company ruining your personal property to enforce a contract THEY made with someone else.

Wow...talk about over-dramatic! Dude, chill out! You obviously don't understand business. Apple and AT&T have a deal. Exclusive. They're not FORCING people to update their firmware, but they need to do something to stay somewhat true to their deal.

And yes, it's true. I'm an Apple fanboy; no spine, questionable. Anyone with an account on this message board is a fanboy/girl. Including you.

If you're still going to sell the Apple products of your friends and family (like you mentioned), please list the products and prices here. I'll be happy to buy!! :) Who's with me? lol :lmao:

adagio
Sep 25th, 2007, 12:48 PM
Who's with me? lol :lmao:
I am. :D

i stole this name
Sep 25th, 2007, 12:51 PM
I may be digressing, but I find it both confusing and infuriating why Apple is releasing the iPhone in the UK and Europe before Canada?

Rogers is virtually Canada's AT&T, you'd think Canadians would have got the iPhone at the same time as Americans let alone after the European release!

HowEver
Sep 25th, 2007, 01:38 PM
.

dona83
Sep 25th, 2007, 03:36 PM
AT&T sold most if not all their stakes in Rogers. Maybe the Canadian cell phone territory is indeed a difficult one to compete in.