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Is it possible to change the meaning of a racial slur?

  • Absolutely, we should change there meanings

    Votes: 4 13.8%
  • No way, the meanings will never change

    Votes: 15 51.7%
  • Probably not, but this movie might change ************

    Votes: 6 20.7%
  • Other / No Comment

    Votes: 4 13.8%

************ - Racial Slur or Not?

28K views 58 replies 21 participants last post by  Dr.G. 
#1 ·
In the recent movie, Clerks 2, an unsuspecting fast food employee uses the term "************" not realizing it's a racial slur against black people. See the clip (contains explicit language):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpGdxQ0o3l4

Now, in the clip, he claims it's just a funny term for a generally lazy person (i.e. someone who sits on the porch all day), and that he is "taking it back".

Is it possible to "take back" a racial slur, and transform it from derogatory racial insult to acceptable general usage?
 
#2 ·
I just absolutely don't see the point in trying to change such a useless term.

I can see no point in trying to "breathe life" into something that is obviously a derogatory term to begin with.
 
#4 ·
"Is it possible to 'take back' a racial slur, and transform it from derogatory racial insult to acceptable general usage?" gt, linguistically speaking, such a slur could become part of the "general usage", but so long as it has the connotations of a slur, it shall not become acceptable. We may become desensitized to its use, but the intended recipiant of the slur does not feel any less insulted.

Personally, I had not heard of the term "************" until I went to teach in Waycross, Georgia. When asked what it meant, I got the two versions, the one about a lazy child and the other about the derogatory term against a person of African descent.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Some words have evolved from acceptable to slur and I'm sure that have gone from slur to general usage.
I remember reading Agatha Christie's "Dix petits nègres" - I think it's called "And Then There Were None" now...

CBC has an interesting brief on mutated language
http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/words/mulatto.html
 
#7 ·
I've never heard that expression before, but I can certainly say I understood it right away because of the use of the word monkey, a very hateful word used by extremely racist people. I don't see how this can be taken back, or why you would want to.

In taking a slur back, there needs to be a sense of something positive behind it, a strength of some sort... I know many women who have accomplished this with derogatory words used to hurt them. But this particular slur? I'm having difficulty in seeing anything positive.
 
#9 ·
The word monkey, a very hateful word used by extremely racist people.
Monkey, really? I call my dog a little monkey all the time. I think extremely racist people would skip over this word and use something a little more degrading.

As for "************" sure when directed at a coloured person, it is certainly meant to be harmful. As for taking it back, I think we're analyzing the film too much, you need to turn your mind off when watching those kind of movies. And sometimes close your eyes, especially during the donkey show.

In general can things be taken back? I don't know, they still call cigarettes "****" in England and there is a big movement for people to stop using the "N" word. I don't think that will work personally.

Why is it just racial comments that we are worried about being emotionally damaging? If find it odd that it seems socially acceptable to call someone fat, ugly or stupid but as soon as race comes into play, it is taboo. Is it because all races can be fat, ugly or stupid, but our ancestry is what divides us all? And why is it that people can ignore being called fat, ugly or stupid but not a racial slur? We all tell our kids to ignore stuff like that but as soon as it hits an adult there is a tendency to lash out, playing right into the hands of the abuser.
 
#11 ·
We have a problem with words. Period. We're running out of words.

I watched the video.

He made the remark in reference to peoples' treatment of HIM, not anyone else. When he said it, he was not attacking anyone.

The woman took offense and then made a deliberate racial slur directed at him.

So help me understand. All white people are racist but no black people are?

Sorry, black people have an equal number of racial taunts that they direct against white people but we're not supposed to react?

I spoke up against something yesterday in another forum. My words were taken out of context and the attacks began and have now risen to the point where people are screaming at me in 48 point font. I stand by what I said. The fact that they chose to misunderstand and then refuse to listen to any explanation is their problem.

I made no personal comments, while they have called me all kinds of the most vicious nasty names that their cussing filter will allow and they have been very creative with alternate spellings.

But the consensus among them is that I'm the ONLY one who misspoke. Because I spoke first and they chose to take offense, they are now free to abuse me any way they want and no matter how far they take it, they are not in the wrong?

Give me a break.

I know that some people are blatantly racist, but I've been the receiver of racist behavior from some of our diverse population and it is just as hurtful, but as a white person, I have no recourse.

Getting back to the video, perhaps racial relations would be better served if the offended parties looked at the origin of the phrase and tried to do something at their end.

Yes, I'm feeling the hurt and sorry for letting it oooze out here.

Margaret
 
#12 ·
I feel your pain Margaret, everyday I waste so much time trying to word emails right so they don't sound a certain way or another. I think we all would have a lot more time if we just started talking again, on the phone or in person.

I think people choose to be offended, they could just as easily ignore, or even ask for clarification. Becoming angry on a message board solves nothing except how intollarent someone is, and possible insecure.
 
#14 ·
I've never heard the term ************ in my life. I don't care if anyone thinks they own it or want to reclaim it. Next time I see a monkey sitting on a porch I will certainly remember it.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I too have been introduced to a new racial slur. Growing up in Nova Scotia with the largest black population in Canada through the 50's to 70's never heard that one.

On the subject of racial sensitivity I was working with a black man in the middle 70's. I shall call him Louie. Louie always made feel as I did something wrong. We were both in our early 20's at the time.

One day we were at a customer business for a pick up. The customer in my estimation was a late 50's to middle 60's aged white man. He said "now listen here boys blah blah blah blah blah blah."

Louie goes sideways at me over the comment "boys" and say " I more than 3 times 7, I'm not his son, he don't call me boy."

I advised Louie "he also called me a boy and he's older than dirt and we probably seem like boys to him.'" This seemed to calm Louie and he didn't verbally attack the customer.

The other thought I had was these are the Maritimes and the word "bye" and "boy(s)" were often used in general conversation instead of sir, fella or guy(s). I didn't express this thought to Louie.

After that I never felt on edge around Louie. It seemed to me that when I was around Louie I suppose to feel guilty for committing an earlier transgression because of my race.
 
#19 ·
One of my business partners is black (Trinidadian) and one of my former co-workers is also black (Jamaican).

I still phone them up and tell them the "boys" are gathering for a little poker. Neither of them have poked me in 30 years of using the term to refer to them.

Sometimes I believe, minorities "look too hard" for a racial slur. We all need to take a valium and kick back if you ask me.
 
#21 ·
I can't believe this is even a discussion, this scene is in the same movie that features sex acts with farm animals as a central theme. It was meant to shock, a reaction to rappers "taking back" the N work.

And referring to African Americans as "monkeys" is meant to be dehumanizing, that they aren't on the same level as the rest of society. Remember it wasn't that long ago that they didn't even have civil rights in the US.
 
#22 ·
As a linguist, I am forever telling my undergrad and grad students that language evolves, but in every evolutionary process and change, the past never fully fades away. Thus, while the term "hoop skirts" is not used much anymore, it still remains a term in the English language. I challenge them to tell me the one word in the English language with the most meanings from the actual word, or from words directly derived from this root word. Of the 7700 undergrad and grad students I have taught here at Memorial, only three have ever gotten this one word correct .................. out of the nearly 700,000 words in the English language. Amazingly, most children learn to read/write this word by the end of grade one.

Thus, words like "************" may have current usage change its meaning, but in English, words have multiple meanings. However, negative words, once used, never fully lose their negative meanings. This is the nature of the English language.

"Stick and stones may break my bones", but words can devastate you.
 
#23 · (Edited)
However, negative words, once used, never fully lose their negative meanings. This is the nature of the English language.
Many words have changed their meanings over the years. I'm sure that there must be more examples...
famous > notorious
awe inspiring > awful
bow-legged > cute
coward > brave
blessed > silly
house wife > hussy
stupid > nice
obedient > buxom
crafty > pretty
(original meaning) > word

More recently we have "bad" (still evolving) and "gay"
 
#24 ·
Dr. G.... that would be the "F" word... where do I pick up my prize?

I was also under the impression that a ************ was the statue; white pants, red jacket, fishing rod, and yes black and yes, used as a racial term.

Cana racial term be changed; yes an no. The only way it could be changed is when it is embraced by those who it is against. Like the N-Bomb. I can't use, but it is ok for a brother to use it.

I use crak'r to describe white people (which I am), so I have somewhat changed it's meaning to me. Then again, I am not sure what it really means and a few of my friends who are brothers are not sure either...
 
#26 ·
Sorry, RunTheWorld, not even close. Remember, this word has the most official definitions, according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, than any other word in the English language.
 
#28 ·
Dr. G:

I don't believe that all negative terms retain negative meaning. The Vicorians referred to a chicken part as a "drumstick" because they found the word "leg" inappropriate.

David lLetterman called his company "Worldwide Pants" because the word "pants" was considered inappropriate for broadcast.

"Poppycock" derives from a dutch term meaning soft "feces" or "BS."

None of the three has retained any sting.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Tit okay, but cock is out

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds has banned the word for male birds from its website, drawing accusations of political correctness gone mad.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21844526-5002700,00.html


Maybe Beej can "pimp" my dictionary....

Meanwhile I'll be enjoying one of these:
1 1/2 oz vodka
1 1/2 oz grapefruit schnapps
lemonade


Random House seems to have set up a labelling system for determining how offensive a word can be.
http://www.randomhouse.com/words/language/oq_chart.html
 
#35 ·
Sorry, no, capitalK. However, you are getting close.
 
#39 ·
Hmm. There is all kinds of discrimination. To "criminalize" racial slurs, ignores and minimizes the other forms of discrimination.

And to define, even subtly, "racial slurs" to mean anything said to people whose skin is not white, ignores the fact that those of us with white skin receive at least as many slurs from the diverse population as they receive from us.

The difference is that if your skin is not white, you get to decide what is a racial slur and what is not - and you don't need to send out a memo when you decide to take some formerly innocuous word as a slur - AND you get to complain and sue and hold the country hostage until your views are HEARD guddammit!!!!!

On the other hand when a white person is deliberately slurred by a member of a diverse group, there is no recourse. We're supposed to turn the other cheek, they, after all, have been downtrodden all their lives, and we owe them.

Enough.

I had the misfortune of being placed in a position of authority over a man who was not born in this country and whose "culture" had no respect for women, did not allow him to be accountable to a woman, allowed him to belittle women and I could go on.

I had no recourse. I couldn't complain - my complaints were not taken seriously - and to be fair to management, they couldn't change the reporting structure because that would have been seen as discrimination.

The whole experience cost me dearly, my health suffered, my pocketbook suffered because I ended up leaving the job, and he was never called to task for his behavior.

Getting back to porch monkeys, I strongly believe that the reason blacks take offense at this particular slur is because they resent being identified with the culture that gave rise to the term in the first place.

Margaret
 
#41 ·
I think the difference is, the general caucasian population receive less actual discrimination and disadvantages than the minority population.

Hmm. There is all kinds of discrimination. To "criminalize" racial slurs, ignores and minimizes the other forms of discrimination.

And to define, even subtly, "racial slurs" to mean anything said to people whose skin is not white, ignores the fact that those of us with white skin receive at least as many slurs from the diverse population as they receive from us.

The difference is that if your skin is not white, you get to decide what is a racial slur and what is not - and you don't need to send out a memo when you decide to take some formerly innocuous word as a slur - AND you get to complain and sue and hold the country hostage until your views are HEARD guddammit!!!!!


On the other hand when a white person is deliberately slurred by a member of a diverse group, there is no recourse. We're supposed to turn the other cheek, they, after all, have been downtrodden all their lives, and we owe them.
 
#40 ·
In the real world, multiculturalism is no screaming success. In fact reverse discrimination is alive and well as Margaret points out. Like I said, provincial human rights departments are too busy with such perceived complaints. Trouble is, not enough people bring the reverse to the forefront.

It truly exists and it can be just as ugly.
 
#44 ·
Wow, white people sure are hard done by. They ought to be preferentially treated for a while, since we feel so sorry for them.

Forget about the last 5000 years. I mean some *real* preferential treatment. Starting now. Like they should be able to derogate other people no matter what. And when someone says they can't, they can just say, "Hey, it's our turn now! We're getting some preferential treatment, pal!" And that would be that.

That will make up for all those white people whose land was stolen, or who couldn't get that job or apartment or mortgage, or who were hunted and lynched for looking at someone the wrong way (or not even), or who face reverse discrimination every single day. Stand up, white people! Your time has come to make up for all that slight disadvantage, and inability to be freely racist, that has been wrought upon you so unfairly!
 
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