: is Apple a bunch of As#ho*e's


imactheknife
Feb 12th, 2007, 01:03 PM
http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/07/02/12/ipod.monday.bar.promo/

man, I think they are getting stupid with this stuff...I mean who wants to have an ipod and get kicked in the face for trying to have some fun...I think Apple is losing it and I think the iphone court deal makes sense to me now....BOO APPLE

fuzzyface
Feb 12th, 2007, 01:21 PM
http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/07/02/12/ipod.monday.bar.promo/

man, I think they are getting stupid with this stuff...I mean who wants to have an ipod and get kicked in the face for trying to have some fun...I think Apple is losing it and I think the iphone court deal makes sense to me now....BOO APPLE

I think we should all change add the suffix "POD" to our names! We might all get some $ from apple!

FuzzyPOD

MannyP Design
Feb 12th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Apple are the a$$holes for protecting their trademark all because some dingleberry wants to cash in on their name?

Nice try.

Go buy a Zune.

Pelao
Feb 12th, 2007, 01:30 PM
The line in the sand appears to be when people make money out of the name. From Apple's (or any other business's) perspective, when you have invested enormously in building a brand, you have to keep an eye on how it is used.

Since precedent is important, if they don't manage the smaller guys, imagine controlling some larger entity's use of the name.

It would appear more attractive if Apple would handle each case differently, but that may not be possible.

imactheknife
Feb 12th, 2007, 01:31 PM
they don't own the name ipod or iphone for that matter or any name with the "i" suffix...they seem to think they can attack anyone they want...I think it might start to turn people of of Apple

...good grief....buy a Zune...so defensive...I just don't understand Apples perspective....I can see if someone used "ipod" in some relation to a product thier selling or something but to have a social event where the ipod name is used Apple should promote it...have fun with your ipods...but no....lets make the squeal like pigs and threaten them...may to treat your fan base

Britnell
Feb 12th, 2007, 01:38 PM
iPod Monday's is free advertising for them. Why **** off confirmed customers?

Pelao
Feb 12th, 2007, 01:48 PM
iPod Monday's is free advertising for them. Why **** off confirmed customers?

As mentioned before, it's a precedent thing. It's really only advertising if you have authorized it, otherwise it is someone else using your brand to promote their business.

If you do not defend consistently, then when you decide to do so your case is potentially weakened.

The response will likely be issued automatically by Apple's lawyers, so they can cover their asses. It would be useful for Apple to have a review process, where each case could be managed, for instance through casual promotion guidelines that the user would sign and implement.

fuzzyface
Feb 12th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Now, if the bar named a bunch of menu items with the prefix "i" - like, iBeer or iStew; served by waiters costumed to look like iPods - then Apple might have a point. As far as I'm concerned, the bar is just giving patrons a place to play their iPods. If they happen to buy some beer or stew...
Is the bar an Apple reseller? I think serving beer at the apple store might induce people to buy more Apple stuff!

MannyP Design
Feb 12th, 2007, 02:05 PM
they don't own the name ipod or iphone for that matter or any name with the "i" suffix...they seem to think they can attack anyone they want...I think it might start to turn people of of Apple

...good grief....buy a Zune...so defensive...I just don't understand Apples perspective....I can see if someone used "ipod" in some relation to a product thier selling or something but to have a social event where the ipod name is used Apple should promote it...have fun with your ipods...but no....lets make the squeal like pigs and threaten them...may to treat your fan base

Apple doesn't sue people for using anything "i" so you can put an end to that foolishness. It's not going to turn anybody against them... let's be realistic, here.

I'm not being defensive--at all. I think it's really idiotic to decry Apple for wanting to protect their product by stopping inappropriate usage of it's brand name. It implies endorsement without consent. It's not the first time a business (or person) has been told to stop using a product/business name.

How about Nike Fridays at Curves, or Mustang Tuesdays at A&W? :lmao:

Please, try leaving the drama for the stage and start using common sense. It's business. Nothing more.

HowEver
Feb 12th, 2007, 02:11 PM
Notice that ipodlounge.com is now ilounge.com. Sure it could just be because the URL is shorter...

Dukenukem
Feb 12th, 2007, 03:09 PM
iPod Monday's is free advertising for them. Why **** off confirmed customers?

My point exactly!

Pelao
Feb 12th, 2007, 03:15 PM
I can see if someone used "ipod" in some relation to a product thier selling or something

I was under the impression that this was a bar, and they were promoting a social event which might boost their sales.....

SoyMac
Feb 12th, 2007, 03:22 PM
Is Apple a bunch of As#ho*e's ?
Probably not, but I would hope that Apple's legal department are.

When I require the use of a lawyer in a contentious matter, defending me or my property, I want my law firm to be the meanest, most vicious bunch of As#ho*e's in Canada.
And everyone opposing me would want my lawyers to be puppies.
It's all in the persepctive. ;)

MannyP Design
Feb 12th, 2007, 03:36 PM
Is Apple really suffering from a lack of iPod sales? Do they really need MORE advertising? And does free advertising justify the unlawful use of a brand without permission?

fuzzyface
Feb 12th, 2007, 04:27 PM
Isn't any advertising, good advertising? If a little item appeared in the local news about ipod owners gathering at a local pub to share music - and maybe a pint or two - it would be a good thing for two reasons: 1, it would highlight the iPod's popularity and; 2, it might encourage others to buy an iPod because the event links the use of the iPod to the ideas of sharing and socializing. The advert slogan "Welcome to the social" was not accidental. Apple runs the risk of looking like a company of jerks if they pull the plug on something as benign as people getting together at a pub with their iPods. Maybe the owner should change his advert to: Popular-MP3-music-player-with-circle-controls-night. Would the lawyers get upset at that?

apple=god
Feb 12th, 2007, 05:44 PM
Maybe this has been said before but i think part of it is that if they let some people slide then everyone will walk all over them, so by setting a hard line in the sand they are telling not just that bar, but also the world that they won't take it. I do agree however that any advertising is good advertising, infact in the past aren't these things generally promoted by apple. i've seen many of those stories of companies using ipods and computers and apple writing short stories about them. I would say that this would be perfect material for one of those anecdotes. Whether they are being inconsistent by pursuing this, or consistent by backing up their trade marks, i leave up to you.

Kosh
Feb 12th, 2007, 06:08 PM
As Pelao has already stated, it's part of protecting their trademark. If they let even one person go with using their trademark, another companies' lawyer could use that as precedent that Apple didn't vigourously protect their trademark and Apple would lose their well-known trademark.

And by the way, Apple does own the iPod trademark.

Pelao
Feb 12th, 2007, 06:17 PM
Apple runs the risk of looking like a company of jerks if they pull the plug on something as benign as people getting together at a pub with their iPods.

Yes, but they are pulling the use of the iPod name without permission, not the event itself.

And I would say no, any advertising is not necessarily good advertising. The more common phrase is "any publicity is good publicity", because it keeps the name in question to the forefront. Even then though, it's not necessarily true.

I think, again, it all comes back to precedent and liability. This may be one of those cases where the action will bring the 2 parties to the table for a reasonable discussion, while still protecting against the said precedent.

You just have to protect and manage your brand - sometimes it's all you have! :)

Oakbridge
Feb 12th, 2007, 06:39 PM
Isn't any advertising, good advertising? If a little item appeared in the local news about ipod owners gathering at a local pub to share music - and maybe a pint or two - it would be a good thing for two reasons: 1, it would highlight the iPod's popularity and; 2, it might encourage others to buy an iPod because the event links the use of the iPod to the ideas of sharing and socializing. The advert slogan "Welcome to the social" was not accidental. Apple runs the risk of looking like a company of jerks if they pull the plug on something as benign as people getting together at a pub with their iPods. Maybe the owner should change his advert to: Popular-MP3-music-player-with-circle-controls-night. Would the lawyers get upset at that?
What if the event was promoting sharing of adult rated videos on Video iPods? Would that still be considered 'good' advertising? Then you'd see the media covering this like crazy.

What if someone got drunk at an event like this, got into a car and killed someone in an accident. The headlines would be "Mary Smith killed by drunk driver leaving iPod Party". That's the type of advertising I'd want for my brand.

I agree with the earlier poster who said that should they require the services of a lawyer to protect their brand, they'd want to toughest bunch of As#ho*e's available. If it was a non-profit group, with good intentions and they applied for use of the name and there was no potential downside, then as the brand owner I would consider it.

imactheknife
Feb 12th, 2007, 07:09 PM
fair enough I guess....I just thought that any little thing to do with the word POD and Apple is all over like a beatle on a turd...POD is not the same thing as iPod...so if these people were to change it to Pod night would it be allowed....probably not...so who owns the name podcast?

HowEver
Feb 12th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Apple knows it's a matter of time before the word "iPods" gets thrown around like "Kleenex," and in the interim, and after, vast wealth accumulates as a result. This is just a small part of the wealth "plan."

By the way, Apple's lawyers (Apple Inc. AND Apple Corps) are going to all over YOU if you insist on spelling "beetle" this way. They signed an agreement that says that while they can use the word, you can't even do that as a typographical or spelling error. Cease and desist!


fair enough I guess....I just thought that any little thing to do with the word POD and Apple is all over like a beatle on a turd...POD is not the same thing as iPod...so if these people were to change it to Pod night would it be allowed....probably not...so who owns the name podcast?

fuzzyface
Feb 12th, 2007, 07:15 PM
This debate raises an interesting question...how far should copyright extend into our day to day lives? If i try to build my own mp3 players to look like ipods, and brand them as iPod - then it's a clear cut case of copyright infringement. But, if i have an "everybody bring their iPod night" at my cafe - is it really copyright infringement? I'm not exactly misrepresenting the ipod, or maligning it as a name brand... I'm not looking for a quote on copyright law, but from a moral perspective - just who's iPod is it anyway?

Kosh
Feb 12th, 2007, 07:19 PM
By the way, I don't know why this is exactly news to anyone, Apple lawyers do this about once every 2 months if not more. Here's one from last month http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2419

Lawrence
Feb 12th, 2007, 07:21 PM
At least these guys are still safe:

http://www.jinx.com/scripts/details.asp?affid=-1&productID=456

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/1072/2096/view.phtml

Heh

Dave :)

Pelao
Feb 12th, 2007, 07:34 PM
This debate raises an interesting question...how far should copyright extend into our day to day lives? If i try to build my own mp3 players to look like ipods, and brand them as iPod - then it's a clear cut case of copyright infringement. But, if i have an "everybody bring their iPod night" at my cafe - is it really copyright infringement? I'm not exactly misrepresenting the ipod, or maligning it as a name brand... I'm not looking for a quote on copyright law, but from a moral perspective - just who's iPod is it anyway?

Yes, lots of interesting stuff for consideration and debate. In your example, the key factor may be that you are promoting an event at your cafe, from which you would hope to increase revenues - thus opening your business to the accusation of making money off another brand without permission or share of the revenue.

Fun stuff!!

imactheknife
Feb 12th, 2007, 07:40 PM
At least these guys are still safe:

http://www.jinx.com/scripts/details.asp?affid=-1&productID=456

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/1072/2096/view.phtml

Heh

Dave :)

classic....:clap:

jhollington
Feb 12th, 2007, 07:42 PM
Notice that ipodlounge.com is now ilounge.com. Sure it could just be because the URL is shorter...
Trust me, it's not.... :)

People have made some good points above about Apple needing to protect their trademark and avoid potentially bad publicity, so I won't rehash it all.

A couple of other things that probably need to be pointed out, however... This wasn't just an informal local event, but rather had grown to the point that he was actually selling iPod Monday Merchandise (http://www.cafepress.com/ipodmonday) on Cafepress, which definitely implies that he was using the iPod name as a sort of branding or trademark of his own. This is probably the point at which Apple became concerned.

There's a big difference between sticking up a sign outside your bar that says "Bring your iPod every Monday night" and actually turning it into a brand.

Further, one could question the legality of the event itself in the most technical of terms. The music that people were bringing in on their iPods is personal music and therefore unlikely to be licensed for public performance, particularly in an implied "for-profit" use, and this in and of itself could be construed as a copyright issue -- one that I'm sure the RIAA and their ilk would love to latch onto, especially if the name "iPod" were involved....

fuzzyface
Feb 12th, 2007, 09:52 PM
I guess he'll just have to change iPod monday's to "Popular-white-music-player-with-controls-around-circle-Monday".
I didn't realize that the bar was selling iPod monday t-shirts. I guess he crossed the line, but what concerns me is that - when a product becomes a hobby from which a kind of social movement starts - who retains control over what direction that movement takes. In the case of things Macintosh, this website is dedicated to macintosh and companies other than apple advertise on this website. I don't think Apple gets any revenue out of it (at least not directly). Should Apple have some sway over what gets discussed in this forum? In the case of the iPod, there's a multitude of websites and social groups that have sprung up about it - worldwide. How much say does Apple have? How much say should Apple have? That's the point that i wanted to get across.

Daktari
Feb 12th, 2007, 10:53 PM
I guess he'll just have to change iPod monday's to "Popular-white-music-player-with-controls-around-circle-Monday".
I didn't realize that the bar was selling iPod monday t-shirts.


hehehe,


I prefer " BYOB Monday ". Bring Your Own Beats.

imactheknife
Feb 12th, 2007, 10:53 PM
I guess he'll just have to change iPod monday's to "Popular-white-music-player-with-controls-around-circle-Monday".
I didn't realize that the bar was selling iPod monday t-shirts. I guess he crossed the line, but what concerns me is that - when a product becomes a hobby from which a kind of social movement starts - who retains control over what direction that movement takes. In the case of things Macintosh, this website is dedicated to macintosh and companies other than apple advertise on this website. I don't think Apple gets any revenue out of it (at least not directly). Should Apple have some sway over what gets discussed in this forum? In the case of the iPod, there's a multitude of websites and social groups that have sprung up about it - worldwide. How much say does Apple have? How much say should Apple have? That's the point that i wanted to get across.

good reply....I did not realize the guy was capitalizing on shirts and stuff so in that case I agree with most responses on this thread regarding Apple's stance....but I still think they go over board to quick sometimes....the Rumor mills lawsuit is another example of Apple's quick to bite tactics...

Aurora
Feb 12th, 2007, 11:36 PM
I used to have a photolab franchise that promoted "club" membership. My menuboard showed all our services as Regular Price and Club Price until PRICE CLUB lawyers swooped down on us. Go figure. Brands get very touchy.

Carl
Feb 13th, 2007, 01:29 PM
This is how a trademark works. Use it to keep it. Enforce it to keep it.

If Apple didn't tell people to stop, then they would lose the right to use it. Period.

That is why they never call back a newspaper after such an incident. They want it to go away. They know it is bad publicity, but the law forces them to protect their trademark.

mguertin
Feb 13th, 2007, 02:35 PM
This is how a trademark works. Use it to keep it. Enforce it to keep it.

If Apple didn't tell people to stop, then they would lose the right to use it. Period.

That is why they never call back a newspaper after such an incident. They want it to go away. They know it is bad publicity, but the law forces them to protect their trademark.

Well said. They have to uphold it or lose it, that's the way the (crappy) laws work -- if you don't enforce your trademarks you set precendence so that others, which may not be doing something quite as innocent as having a music night, can take advantage of the fact and have a legal defence to it.

Had that owner called it "Coca-Cola Mondays" and sold Coca-Cola Monday's shirts he would be in the same situation (although it would probably be a lot easier to get Coca-Cola to sponsor something like that hehe, but that's another story!)

macguy.nielsen
Feb 14th, 2007, 04:30 PM
If you understand the fact that they are protecting their copyright, then no, apple isn't a bunch of a$$holes. If you ever heard of the fact that companies have to protect their copyrights or they will lose it, then you will understand why they have to do this. Just like with the iPhone, Linksys didn't use the name for anything for a while so they may actually lose the copyright.

Not to mention the fact that this guy was using their name to bring money in for himself and it really had very little to do with the ipod, it had to do with exchanging music. And the legality of this type of event? That's a whole other pile of peanuts. I'm sure Apple also wanted to distance themselves from this type of event.

Oakbridge
Feb 14th, 2007, 05:01 PM
I used to have a photolab franchise that promoted "club" membership. My menuboard showed all our services as Regular Price and Club Price until PRICE CLUB lawyers swooped down on us. Go figure. Brands get very touchy.
From 1988 until 1991 I worked for a mini computer company named Qantel. They had been around for 20+ years at that point.

We were at a trade show in Halifax and some people came over from the Cantel (Rogers original brand name for their wireless) booth and said we might want to consider changing our name because it sounded too close to theirs. They were being really arrogant about it until we mentioned how long that we had been in business, using that brand name.

They shut up very quickly and "scurried off back into the hole they crawled out of".

Harvey
Feb 15th, 2007, 11:27 AM
When it comes to this sort of thing Apple hasn’t changed in the past 20+ years;
I remember hearing a story years ago that Apple's legal Dept started hassling the Macintosh bookstore about their name (I think it’s this one; http://macintosh-books.com/index.html), how it infringed on Apple’s trademark and Apple’s intent to sue if the bookstore didn’t change it’s name. Apple’s tone changed rapidly when the store owner mentioned that the store was in operation 6 years before Macintosh computers were introduced.

Regards
From Ottawa
Harvey

MannyP Design
Feb 15th, 2007, 11:32 AM
Anyone remember MikeRoweSoft.com?

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/01/19/offbeat.mike.rowe.soft.ap/