: Mac or PC -- Which to get?


Klaatu
Aug 5th, 2005, 04:48 PM
My nephew is starting school in the fall and I'm heavily recommending he get a Mac Mini.

Here's the background: He's been sharing a pc at home but, thanks to Kazaa, it has been riddled with viruses. My brother bought a new, faster pc for them but because he's paranoid it too will be plagued by viruses, doesn't connect it to the internet. Of course this means the family is not in the habit of upgrading their virus protection. But at university he not only wants to have internet access, he has to have it. Hence my recommendation.

I knew he was on a tight budget, and I knew he would be easily lured by bargain pcs, plus his needs are simple: internet, e-mail, word-processing and music. So the Mini was ideal for all this.

Here's the problem: He's been bombarded by advice from pc users. All essentially say the same thing : "Why on earth would you ever want a Mac?" All but one has never owned a Mac, and the one who has tells horror stories about files not being able to open, and hardware not being compatable. My nephew now doesn't know who to believe.

He wants to make a choice but, rightly so, he's conflicted. I won't go into details about my own arguments so, perhaps others can voice theirs and confirm what I've already told him.

As it stands the main reaction seems to be summed up by my sister-in-law who said "If Macs are so great, how come everyone doesn't own one?"

CN
Aug 5th, 2005, 05:09 PM
If he's only using it for "internet, e-mail, word-processing and music" I don't see where any compatibility issues could arise. Worst case scenario: a document he needs was created on a Windows only program- just resave it as a format that can be read on a mac (RTF or any of the usual word formats usually work). As for hardware being incompatible it depends on what your talking about...burners, external hard drives can have a few problems, but not if you do your homework and check about compatibility. Even so, there are few issues...

I was worried about the same things when I switched and I have never regretted switching...can't think of a more compelling argument than that right there! :D

guytoronto
Aug 5th, 2005, 05:12 PM
Simple. Mac mini with the Student/Teacher edition of MS Office.

That's all he should need.

If he is unsure, send him back to his virus/adware ridden PC and ask him if he wants to deal with that all through university.

mishi8
Aug 5th, 2005, 05:14 PM
Of course, Mac Mini! Not only is it priced well, but for school purposes, it's incredibly portable. I can't think of a reason it shouldn't work well for him. Personally, I've never had issues with using a Mac in a mostly PC work environment (aside from clients not understanding in which format to supply their copy for course calendar/ad/brochure design...but that's more of a graphic designer/vs. non-designer thing. :) ) The one issue that might crop up for him is if he takes courses that are specific in the use of PCs.

Klaatu
Aug 5th, 2005, 05:59 PM
The one issue that might crop up for him is if he takes courses that are specific in the use of PCs.

That seems unlikely. The university is Western and they even provide support for OS 7 & 8. The thing I found odd was they recommended <A HREF="http://security.uwo.ca/uwo-av.html">Norton antivirus for Macs.</A>

CanadaRAM
Aug 5th, 2005, 06:24 PM
That seems unlikely. The university is Western and they even provide support for OS 7 & 8. The thing I found odd was they recommended <A HREF="http://security.uwo.ca/uwo-av.html">Norton antivirus for Macs.</A>
Not quite so odd -- Macs can forward email virii from one Windows machine to another. So intercepting them before forwarding has benefit to anyone running a large network.

Mugatu
Aug 5th, 2005, 06:29 PM
If your nephew is using eng/math applications you may want to stick with a PC. Just tell your nephew to stop using Kazaa. :D

However, as a mac mini owner, if he's mainly writting up essays and reports, I'd suggest the mini. As stated above, is portable, cheap and decently fast. A gig of ram for it would definately help in the speed department.

Klaatu
Aug 5th, 2005, 06:35 PM
Not quite so odd -- Macs can forward email virii from one Windows machine to another. So intercepting them before forwarding has benefit to anyone running a large network.

Yeah, this was covered <A HREF="https://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=29132">here</A> and especially <A HREF="https://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=27481">here</A>

IronMac
Aug 5th, 2005, 06:36 PM
Gee...what does his courses entail? If he needs to run programs that can only run on a Wintel then that's all there is to it. Otherwise, get a Mac mini or iBook!

Klaatu
Aug 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Gee...what does his courses entail? If he needs to run programs that can only run on a Wintel then that's all there is to it. Otherwise, get a Mac mini or iBook!

He's already choosen his courses and there is nothing that suggests he needs a pc-specific program. Like I said "his needs are simple: internet, e-mail, word-processing and music."

ShawnKing
Aug 5th, 2005, 08:19 PM
I knew he was on a tight budget, and I knew he would be easily lured by bargain pcs, plus his needs are simple: internet, e-mail, word-processing and music. So the Mini was ideal for all this.
Actually, the PC is. The key is "he was on a tight budget". He can get a PC for a *lot* less than a Mac mini, can't he?

someone
Aug 5th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Actually, the PC is. The key is "he was on a tight budget". He can get a PC for a *lot* less than a Mac mini, can't he?
Agreed.

People generally buy a mac because of its other merits, not because of the price point. I don't think Apple will ever be able to compete with Dell when it comes to price, but once the computer reaches a certain price point, people will start to consider it quality (...Maybe I should shell out the extra $50 and get this mac mini, which is a lot more compact and attractive...)

DBerG
Aug 5th, 2005, 08:32 PM
Where's the passion guys (and girls)???? I'll never buy a PC 'til I REALLY need it and windows becomes more usable than now.

gnatsum
Aug 5th, 2005, 09:04 PM
personally i'm sick of trying to convert people. i've been working about 6 people over the past year, and i'm tired.

i say let the damn person use their PC. they are so comfortable with it. sure it's tiring, annoyong, full of errors, viruses.

but i think they like it. i swear. they do.

i figured it out.


PC users like things that don't work.

i'm not gonna bother you. i hate the religious converters approaching me.

so i'm not gonna approach you. you live your life exactly how you wish.

and i'll live my steady. virus free for entire 15 years of use lifestyle.

no antivirus. and no clicking on random error msg's where i don't even have to read it to click okay.

ugh. so stubborn.

gnatsum
Aug 5th, 2005, 09:07 PM
only...when i'm having a laughing fit at their house. cuz they can't simply use the internet. or type an essay and check email for university (Wait, isnt that what your nephew wants to do?) because the machine keeps shutting down, or quitting apps...then they turn and face me...

"sooo...there's no viruses on a mac?"

gnatsum
Aug 5th, 2005, 09:08 PM
then i just smile...




<<--kinda like that

Klaatu
Aug 5th, 2005, 09:37 PM
then i just smile...




<<--kinda like that

That's just it. I care about my nephew. I don't want to mock his pain. I want to save him from it

True -- very, very true -- he can get a pc for a lot less. I fixed up my neigbour with a used Dell for $200. She was thrilled beyond belief. Ok, she's had it in the shop at least three times (usually because she didn't get virus protection) but computers are suppose to break down, aren't they? That's what she reasons. Ditto another friend who spent $300 to get a pc for Christmas. So far it's been in the shop at least three times, usually when he had a writing deadline to meet. He swears and curses every time but <I>he</I> reasons he's still ahead: "I spent $300 on the computer and, at the moment, I've spent that much on repairs. So I'm still ahead then if I bought a Mac."

TimStalin
Aug 5th, 2005, 09:48 PM
Hey Klaatu,

Is there anyway you could get your nephew using a Mac before school comes around? A loaner Mac for a few days or weeks? He might hate the Mac experience.

Also, who will be administering this computer while at school? If it's you then he gets what you tell him to get. But if he is going to do it himself then he should probably get a PC so that his friends can help him out.

I actually encouraged my mother to get an iBook before she went to work overseas. While she was in Canada and I could help her out, things were fine -- but in Saudi Arabia absolutely no one would give her a hand unless she used a Windows box -- so she was pretty well forced to purchase a new Wintel laptop.

And like gnatsum I've quite trying to convert other users, but at the same time I refuse to help anyone out with their Wintel boxes either.

Klaatu
Aug 5th, 2005, 11:02 PM
Hey Klaatu,

Is there anyway you could get your nephew using a Mac before school comes around? A loaner Mac for a few days or weeks? He might hate the Mac experience.

That was my latest proposal. That I'd get a Mini and if he didn't like it, I'd sell it.

Also, who will be administering this computer while at school? If it's you then he gets what you tell him to get. But if he is going to do it himself then he should probably get a PC so that his friends can help him out.

I actually encouraged my mother to get an iBook before she went to work overseas. While she was in Canada and I could help her out, things were fine -- but in Saudi Arabia absolutely no one would give her a hand unless she used a Windows box -- so she was pretty well forced to purchase a new Wintel laptop.

That was another big argument -- what if he has a problem? Where could he go for Mac help? But he's not going to Saudi Arabia. He's going to university. And what sort of problems is he likely going to have that a phone call to his uncle, or a visit to ehMac can't fix? God knows I survived on a lot less when running OS 7 on my <A HREF="http://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/stats/mac_performa_450.html">Performa</A>.

And like gnatsum I've quite trying to convert other users, but at the same time I refuse to help anyone out with their Wintel boxes either.

I know. If this fails, I'm giving up too.

scootsandludes
Aug 6th, 2005, 12:41 AM
personally i'm sick of trying to convert people. i've been working about 6 people over the past year, and i'm tired.
i say let the damn person use their PC. they are so comfortable with it. sure it's tiring, annoyong, full of errors, viruses.
but i think they like it. i swear. they do.
i figured it out.
PC users like things that don't work.
i'm not gonna bother you. i hate the religious converters approaching me.
so i'm not gonna approach you. you live your life exactly how you wish.
and i'll live my steady. virus free for entire 15 years of use lifestyle.
no antivirus. and no clicking on random error msg's where i don't even have to read it to click okay.
ugh. so stubborn.

Here Here. I've stopped trying to convert the stubborn, if somebody asks me for advice, I'm more than happy to give it. They know how bias I am about it, and I just figure they wouldn't be asking if they weren't thinking about it. When people are talking about virus and spyware malware whatever, I just pretend I never seen it before, wait I've never seen it, so no pretending. I just pretend I never heard of software to prevent it.

My mother needs a new computer, she's eyeing the mini, but she suggested getting a PC, I said, "Sure go ahead, don't ask me to fix it when it's ridden with virus' and malware the next day. !" That was the end of that discussion.

My friend bought a PC a couple of years ago, it wasn't on my recommendation, but we tried to hook it up to wifi so he can get online with the other pcs in the house, we spent a good day trying to get the thing going, he called over a neighbor who's suppose to be an expert. It runs xp, but it hasn't been turned on since. We called support (Microsoft Router) no help there. We don't know what to do with it. Right now it could be holding down some paper I guess.

vince

SoyMac
Aug 6th, 2005, 03:04 AM
Interesting to see other people who are tired of trying to convince PeeCee owners to go Mac. I hit this wall only about a month ago.
Now, I don't try to argue or cajole or reason with any PeeCee users - relatives included. If they're happy with crap, who am I to argue? it just wastes my time and theirs.
Klaatu, your nephew will have to learn some hard lessons in life. Maybe this is one of them.

And I can't believe I am posting this here, of all places, but those in this thread commenting that the PeeCee is cheaper, are ignoring the studies that show that owning an Apple is far cheaper over the long run.

Another thing:
"his needs are simple: internet, e-mail, word-processing and music"
So right here, with a PeeCee, he's f#@ked.

gnatsum, you are sooo right, except for one thing. My dim PeeCee using friends turn to me and say, "How do you deal with the viruses on your Mac?" Maybe my friends are stoopider than yours.
No wonder I don't proselytise any more.

Happy in my Mac life :)

ShawnKing
Aug 6th, 2005, 03:28 AM
Where's the passion guys (and girls)????
The original poster didn't ask us for "passion" - he asked for (hopefully) honest opinions.

ShawnKing
Aug 6th, 2005, 03:29 AM
personally i'm sick of trying to convert people. i've been working about 6 people over the past year, and i'm tired.
Amen. Apple isn't paying me to evangelize for them.

ShawnKing
Aug 6th, 2005, 03:31 AM
My mother needs a new computer, she's eyeing the mini, but she suggested getting a PC, I said, "Sure go ahead, don't ask me to fix it when it's ridden with virus' and malware the next day. !" That was the end of that discussion.
LOL I tell people, "If you buy a Mac, I wil give you unlimited free tech support. If you buy a PC, I won't help you at all. Your call." :)

bryanc
Aug 6th, 2005, 03:34 AM
As it stands the main reaction seems to be summed up by my sister-in-law who said "If Macs are so great, how come everyone doesn't own one?"

If BMWs are so great, how come everyone doesn't drive one?
If organic food is so great, how come everyone doesn't eat it?
If PCs are so great, why do so many scientists, engineers, security experts, Nobel prize winners, artists and writers use Macs? Why does the internet run on Unix rather than Windows?

There are some very good reasons your nephew might be better off with a PC running Windows, but the fact that the majority of computers are running it is not one of them... if it were, once a given system gained dominance, nothing would ever change or progress again... er, rather like the past decade while Microsoft has been using it's monopoly to squash innovation.

Cheers

ShawnKing
Aug 6th, 2005, 03:34 AM
Interesting to see other people who are tired of trying to convince PeeCee owners to go Mac. I hit this wall only about a month ago.
I hit it 6 years ago. :)
And I can't believe I am posting this here, of all places, but those in this thread commenting that the PeeCee is cheaper, are ignoring the studies that show that owning an Apple is far cheaper over the long run.
No, we're not. I know all about those studies. But a kid heading off to college doesn't give a rat's hind quarters about studies or ROI. As the original poster pointed out, he's on a budget *now* - not over time.
Another thing:
"his needs are simple: internet, e-mail, word-processing and music"
So right here, with a PeeCee, he's f#@ked.
How so?

Vexel
Aug 6th, 2005, 09:19 AM
I just thought of something. I mean.. if he's going to be somewhere that doesn't support Macs, and there's no one to help him at school. (friends.. etc..)

This is what ehMac is for! :D

I'm not completely positive, but I don't think there is a site out there, in Canada.. anything like this one at all. This is the best place to come for EVERYTHING, Mac.

If he wants to learn about new things.. ehMac.

If he needs help, ehMac.

If he needs to strike up a good convo. ehMac

Not to mention.. the ehMac Chatroom in iChat. Another great place to meet great new folks.. who are incidentally all from ehMac! :)

My point.. there's always help :) Even if it isn't in person. And.. likely he'll meet someone at the college who uses a Mac anyway. There's a lot more of us around than people think. ;)

Klaatu
Aug 6th, 2005, 09:58 AM
I just thought of something. I mean.. if he's going to be somewhere that doesn't support Macs, and there's no one to help him at school. (friends.. etc..)

This is what ehMac is for! :D

You're quite right Vexel. In fact I said as much in one of my replies "... what sort of problems is he likely going to have that a phone call to his uncle, or a visit to ehMac can't fix?"

My point.. there's always help :) Even if it isn't in person. And.. likely he'll meet someone at the college who uses a Mac anyway. There's a lot more of us around than people think. ;)

Just by looking at the traffic at ehMac I've noticed a lot of young university-aged switchers.

Klaatu
Aug 6th, 2005, 10:13 AM
No, we're not. I know all about those studies. But a kid heading off to college doesn't give a rat's hind quarters about studies or ROI. As the original poster pointed out, he's on a budget *now* - not over time.

Actually, a bit of history is useful here.

When we first starting talking about this in the spring he was thinking of budgeting about $1500 for a laptop, as that seemed a popular choice for university students.

So I asked him if he really needed portability because, whether he went Mac or pc, a laptop would always be more expensive then a desktop of similar power. So we went over the advanatges of a laptop (use it anywhere) and he was confident that it wasn't necessary.

Then we went over his needs and I realized power wasn't a primary concern, so a Mac Mini was making more sense -- he can spend less money then he budgeted, have a machine small enough to fit neatly in his tiny dorm room, and never worry about viruses which, as was pointed out in my first post, is a nuisance he hasn't been accustomed to dealing with on his home pc.

SoyMac
Aug 6th, 2005, 10:18 AM
I hit it 6 years ago. :)
You're a faster learner than me!

But a kid heading off to college doesn't give a rat's hind quarters about studies or ROI. As the original poster pointed out, he's on a budget *now* - not over time.
Yeah, true. I know the psychological impact of walking into the store and seeing the 59$ cordless drill, comparing it to the 199$ Makita, and thinking there's just no way the higher price can be justified. The problem is that after the first light job, Buddy is back at the store, happily laying down the 199$ after learning their lesson. And now they're out close to 300$. Sound familiar, PeeCee>switch>Mac people? I think that's what Klaatu is attempting to prevent nephew from doing.


Another thing:
"his needs are simple: internet, e-mail, word-processing and music"
So right here, with a PeeCee, he's f#@ked.

Shawn King: How so?

Sorry, I should have narrowed that down to: "...internet, e-mail..." so he's set up to fail.
What were the latest reports saying about Windows online security? Something like 22 minutes from initial web connection to first infection?

Klaatu
Aug 6th, 2005, 10:28 AM
Yeah, true. I know the psychological impact of walking into the store and seeing the 59$ cordless drill, comparing it to the 199$ Makita, and thinking there's just no way the higher price can be justified. The problem is that after the first light job, Buddy is back at the store, happily laying down the 199$ after learning their lesson. And now they're out close to 300$. Sound familiar, PeeCee>switch>Mac people? I think that's what Klaatu is attempting to prevent nephew from doing.

As I've also mentioned, I resigned to help friends get cheap pcs because they were determined to spend less then $300 and in every case they already spent nearly as much on repairs -- one since Christmas, the other since spring. They haven't even gone a year yet.

But even if he can find a helpful friend who can clean up his machine for free every time he's crippled by a virus, he still has to deal with the nuisance of that. I just wanted to ensure he had a machine that works -- plug it in, turn it on, and it just works.

gnatsum
Aug 6th, 2005, 12:46 PM
hey thanks.... i know i see it happen all the time with my friends...

yes...it's trure if macs are so great why doesn't everyone own them?

i like to think of it in a philosophical manner, it's like the sheep to the sheperd.

or an aritocracy...we are the elite...

lots of things... but in the end. all my friends are just not going to switch because they don't want to, they brag about how macs are better and they say. i don't like it. i'm not used to it. only one button. where are all the programs (jawdropping. it's right in front of you on the dock)..."no start button?"

those excuses are from a person who is not open minded and cannot leave their comfort zone.

there's always going to be a fall before you rise up and ABOVE.

anyway...is your nephew reading these?


what does HE think, forget what his parents think...(don't tell them i said that)

andrewenterprise
Aug 6th, 2005, 12:55 PM
Agreed.

People generally buy a mac because of its other merits, not because of the price point. I don't think Apple will ever be able to compete with Dell when it comes to price, but once the computer reaches a certain price point, people will start to consider it quality (...Maybe I should shell out the extra $50 and get this mac mini, which is a lot more compact and attractive...)

The Mac Mini still holds excellent value, even next to a Dell, seeing as Dell could never compete with Apple for product quality and customer support.

DBerG
Aug 6th, 2005, 01:41 PM
The Mac Mini still holds excellent value, even next to a Dell, seeing as Dell could never compete with Apple for product quality and customer support.
And you get OS Ten!

Klaatu
Aug 6th, 2005, 03:06 PM
anyway...is your nephew reading these?

He's away this weekend so it'll be a few days.

Thank you, everyone, for your input. It was a great mix.

ShawnKing
Aug 6th, 2005, 04:45 PM
If he wants to learn about new things.. ehMac.

If he needs help, ehMac.

If he needs to strike up a good convo. ehMac

Not to mention.. the ehMac Chatroom in iChat. Another great place to meet great new folks.. who are incidentally all from ehMac! :)

And if his Internet access is down? :)

Klaatu
Aug 6th, 2005, 09:10 PM
And if his Internet access is down? :)

How cute.

I'm sure in an environment where every human has they own computer, in every dorm room, coffee shop, lecture hall, and probably even elevator -- and if that isn't enough, more can be found in computer labs and libraries -- he'll have no problem finding temporary alternative access, just in case a mouse chews through his connecting cable or he deliberating opens up his Internet Connect settings, changes all the settings, and throws away his username and password.

CubaMark
Aug 7th, 2005, 12:04 AM
Buy it for him now. GIve it to him now. They can pay you when they realize what a smart fella you are, or you can sell it (easily) when the PC drones penetrate his skull.

As for support, which university? Many have computer stores on campus, and many of those are strongly pro-Mac. Dalhousie certainly is in Halifax. In TO, I know there's a good campus Mac store at York Lanes. Don't know about U of T or any others...

M.

mr.steevo
Aug 7th, 2005, 12:47 PM
Hi,

The university is Western. I don't see how anyone could have trouble finding computer help in a university.

Either buy the mini for him and let him decide, or buy him virus protection for the PC he aready has.

s.

SoyMac
Aug 7th, 2005, 11:10 PM
Buy it for him now. GIve it to him now. They can pay you when they realize what a smart fella you are, or you can sell it (easily) when the PC drones penetrate his skull.
...M.
CubaMark (and mr.steevo)
I don't think this would work.
If he gets a Mac first, he'll never know what his advantages are, and he'll be mad that he paid a few dollars more for an Apple computer.
I've come to the conclusion that everyone should use a PeeCee for a year before getting a chance to use a Mac.
Sorry, Klaatu, but I've returned to my original opinion that this is one of the lessons your nephew and his parents are going to have to learn the hard way.
And don't feel bad. You tried hard to steer your nephew in the right direction. You gave him the information on which to base his decision.
I think it's now out of your hands.

Klaatu
Aug 7th, 2005, 11:28 PM
CubaMark (and mr.steevo)
I don't think this would work.
If he gets a Mac first, he'll never know what his advantages are, and he'll be mad that he paid a few dollars more for an Apple computer.
I've come to the conclusion that everyone should use a PeeCee for a year before getting a chance to use a Mac.
Sorry, Klaatu, but I've returned to my original opinion that this is one of the lessons your nephew and his parents are going to have to learn the hard way.
And don't feel bad. You tried hard to steer your nephew in the right direction. You gave him the information on which to base his decision.
I think it's now out of your hands.

I think you're right. One can only learn by making mistakes (like the time I bought Norton Antivirus for my Mac -- what a boner move that was!)

Peter Sensei
Aug 7th, 2005, 11:44 PM
My own son has just finished his first year at Windsor University and choose a pc laptop for the same reasons expressed previously. Viruses and 3 major breakdowns cost him about 6 weeks in down time. He did sent papers home that got edited on a mac and returned via the same mac and sometimes his pc could receive them in safe mode.
Due to economics 101 he is now stuck with the pc, but the other day I caught him on a mac site checking out the ibooks. He closed the site as if i had caught him surfing porn .
Try to have your Nephew avoid the same ugly pc error

MacME
Aug 8th, 2005, 11:51 AM
anyone with a little computer smarts can avoid most if not all problems listed here by all you Pro-Mac only users, and it doesn't take THAT much effort. a good firewall, anti-virus and some web surfing/downloading smarts and your set. i'm very surprised at the "elitist" attitude that a lot of ppl here have, where you won't help friends/family who didn't listen to your advice and purchased a PC.

dollar for dollar, you can get a decent complete PC system cheaper than a Mac Mini. if someone is an a budget constraint, it's gonna play into the purchase more than anything else. and the user base to get help for a PC far out numbers that of Mac support. so my vote would be for your nephew to get a PC.

however, if the nephew can't keep his PC clean and running, than by all means get him to get a Mac. but i myself would never give up my PC for a Mac, no if's and's or but's. don't get me wrong, the Mini is a great little machine that has a lot of merits. but i've been trying for months to make more use of my Mini, but i don't think there's anyway i'd be able to make it as usable as my day to day PC.

RyanB
Aug 8th, 2005, 12:33 PM
CubaMark (and mr.steevo)
I don't think this would work.
If he gets a Mac first, he'll never know what his advantages are, and he'll be mad that he paid a few dollars more for an Apple computer.
I've come to the conclusion that everyone should use a PeeCee for a year before getting a chance to use a Mac.
Sorry, Klaatu, but I've returned to my original opinion that this is one of the lessons your nephew and his parents are going to have to learn the hard way.
And don't feel bad. You tried hard to steer your nephew in the right direction. You gave him the information on which to base his decision.
I think it's now out of your hands.

this makes some sense... however, I think that If he gets a PC first he will get used to it, will have problems yes, perhaps, but will struggle through and then will be harder to convert later. He will already be used to the programs he has and will be comfortable with it. Also he has been using the family computer and is used to the problems that they have had so he should be fresh from a PC burn and willing to put up with the short-term pain of switching to a new platform for the benifits of the Mac.

I recently talked my mother into a MacMini and she seems to be happy for the most part. She is haveing some issues as there are always little things that she wants to run that are PC progams... but she is likeing the operating system and symplicity of it all. I was always a bit reluctant to push switching to people as most home users wern't up for the higher prices, with the mac Mini it all changed and like someone said it is only a few buck more for a Mini over a less equipt (apples to apples) Dell computer.

I think it is ironic that so many MacAdicts are tired of preaching MAc now that there is a great low budget product and so much MacMania over the Ipod that it is the best time to push switching! Apple should have come out with something like this years ago! :D

Vexel
Aug 8th, 2005, 12:38 PM
however, if the nephew can't keep his PC clean and running, than by all means get him to get a Mac. but i myself would never give up my PC for a Mac, no if's and's or but's. don't get me wrong, the Mini is a great little machine that has a lot of merits. but i've been trying for months to make more use of my Mini, but i don't think there's anyway i'd be able to make it as usable as my day to day PC.

Ya know.. I used to say the same thing about my Wintel machine. I just couldn't make it as usable as my Powerbook. Same with my School PC running Windows 2000 Pro. I don't find anyone being "elitist" here. Many of us have quite an extensive knowledge of Windows.

This is a Mac forum, however, What's your Day to Day activity which you can't do on the Mac? This person is looking for a computer which will be good for Word Processing, emails, music. Honestly, how could you recommend Windows over a Mac in this regard. Why bother with the hassle's of Virii and *ware? Believe me, I know how to make windows work, I also know Windows has some advantages over the Mac. However, this case... it's surely clear. IMO.

MacME
Aug 8th, 2005, 01:07 PM
Ya know.. I used to say the same thing about my Wintel machine. I just couldn't make it as usable as my Powerbook. Same with my School PC running Windows 2000 Pro. I don't find anyone being "elitist" here. Many of us have quite an extensive knowledge of Windows.


uhmm one person even used the word "elite" to describe themselves, sooo

to have extensive knowledge of Windows but refuse to help a friend/family member with their Wintel machine because they didn't take your advice to buy a Mac, what would you call that?


This is a Mac forum, however, What's your Day to Day activity which you can't do on the Mac? This person is looking for a computer which will be good for Word Processing, emails, music. Honestly, how could you recommend Windows over a Mac in this regard. Why bother with the hassle's of Virii and *ware? Believe me, I know how to make windows work, I also know Windows has some advantages over the Mac. However, this case... it's surely clear. IMO.

my recommendation would be Windows over Mac on personal experience, and like i said, it's also on the information that there may be budget constraints. and there's more ppl for the nephew to turn to if he has problems. but i also said that if the nephew can't handle managing a PC, then by all means, get the Mac.

to answer your question, for me it comes down to familiarity of apps on my PC, and also the availability and variety. the later is the same reasons that killed IBM's OS/2, which i was running for a while and thought was a great OS. i really wish i could move away from using a Windows based machine, but i find i can't avoid it.

Klaatu
Aug 8th, 2005, 01:13 PM
to answer your question, for me it comes down to familiarity of apps on my PC, and also the availability and variety.

*scratches head*

Well... no.... that doesn't answer the question. In this circumstance I've stated -- many times -- the needs of the specific user: mail, internet, word processing and music. What exactly can Windows do that the Mac can't?

Vexel
Aug 8th, 2005, 01:34 PM
uhmm one person even used the word "elite" to describe themselves, sooo

to have extensive knowledge of Windows but refuse to help a friend/family member with their Wintel machine because they didn't take your advice to buy a Mac, what would you call that?

Because some people are just plain sick of supporting an OS which they dislike/hate. I myself.. can't refuse to help people when they need help. But, I understand the frustration in trying to teach someone something on Windows when it's completely pointless. I've had many a person.. just call back for the same issue.. just so "they" don't have to do it themselves. It's really annoying. These people should not use Windows.



my recommendation would be Windows over Mac on personal experience, and like i said, it's also on the information that there may be budget constraints. and there's more ppl for the nephew to turn to if he has problems. but i also said that if the nephew can't handle managing a PC, then by all means, get the Mac.

As my recommendation is Mac over Windows.

to answer your question, for me it comes down to familiarity of apps on my PC, and also the availability and variety. the later is the same reasons that killed IBM's OS/2, which i was running for a while and thought was a great OS. i really wish i could move away from using a Windows based machine, but i find i can't avoid it.

I can't think of one app, which the Mac doesn't have an alternative for. Honestly, have you checked out any of the great "Freeware/Shareware" sites? Keep in mind... these 3rd Party developers are the same thing that keeps Windows going as well. (Most even provide Windows and Mac Apps) It doesn't hurt to take a look. For Example... www.openoffice.org . This is your complete Microsoft Office alternative for Free.. A lot of the time, it's the Windows users who are so used to downloading Windows software, don't know where to look to get Mac software. In turn, making them think something isn't available.

I'd like to invite you to skim through this thread:

https://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=23912&highlight=Freeware+Thread

You'll find some great apps there, all free. :)

someone
Aug 8th, 2005, 05:29 PM
anyone with a little computer smarts can avoid most if not all problems listed here by all you Pro-Mac only users, and it doesn't take THAT much effort. a good firewall, anti-virus and some web surfing/downloading smarts and your set. i'm very surprised at the "elitist" attitude that a lot of ppl here have, where you won't help friends/family who didn't listen to your advice and purchased a PC.

dollar for dollar, you can get a decent complete PC system cheaper than a Mac Mini. if someone is an a budget constraint, it's gonna play into the purchase more than anything else. and the user base to get help for a PC far out numbers that of Mac support. so my vote would be for your nephew to get a PC.

however, if the nephew can't keep his PC clean and running, than by all means get him to get a Mac. but i myself would never give up my PC for a Mac, no if's and's or but's. don't get me wrong, the Mini is a great little machine that has a lot of merits. but i've been trying for months to make more use of my Mini, but i don't think there's anyway i'd be able to make it as usable as my day to day PC.
I had no trouble keeping my PC working and virus + spyware free. However, it still failed to "just work". I either have to spend countless hours trying numerous different combinations of software to get something to work or to spend the same number of hours clicking my way through the menus...

A mac may be slightly more limited, but it lets you get the work done. Aren't computers supposed to be *tools* to help you get things done?

Elias26
Aug 8th, 2005, 07:09 PM
I hate Windows so much. My friend constantly reminds me how silly I was for spending so much on my Dual G5 PowerMac, and how little he spent on his so-called great HP laptop.

Well guess what kiddies, while downloading a video file from off the internet this past weekend, he got a virus and his PC got a blank screen... and for the entire time I was there he was complaining about his HP laptop. Yet, I have never complained about my G5 PM once. Granted I have experienced one crash since purchasing said computer back in March, but one crash? lol Oh please and when it rebooted it took mere seconds! It didn't do a check up like OS9 would were it would take forever. I am telling you, sure you may spend more on the components on a Macintosh. And yes it's really unjustifiable because we know they could sell for a lot less, but money shouldn't always be a concern here when making that new computer purchase.

Peace of mind, ease of use, a stress free OS (well it is for me), and not to mention man hours should also be factored into a purchase.True enough, a lot of Wintel machines maybe cheaper than a lot of Mac setups, but for the more important things in life (because money isn't the most important), the Apple Macintosh wins hands down.

If you guys only knew the stress and anger I had endured when I was a Windows user opposed to my years being an Apple user.. it's not even close. I could never go back to the PC world. Not unless things improved drastically, and Microsoft isn't known for that.

BlueMax
Aug 8th, 2005, 07:52 PM
That sounds like right where I am now! :) I've been on the PC platform since the XT over 15 years ago. MS-DOS through every version of Windows since. I'm finally sick of it (an IT job will do that to you!) I just left the IT sector for good and selling off my new Dell setup to get a Mac. Just deciding on WHICH Mac to get!

Elias26
Aug 8th, 2005, 07:56 PM
What would you use the Mac for? That should really narrow down your choices as to which machine you should get.

MacME
Aug 8th, 2005, 09:40 PM
*scratches head*

Well... no.... that doesn't answer the question. In this circumstance I've stated -- many times -- the needs of the specific user: mail, internet, word processing and music. What exactly can Windows do that the Mac can't?

i was answering why i specifically would pick a PC over a Mac for myself. but yes, for the specific needs you've outlined, a Mac would do just fine. but going back to the budget for your nephew, so would a PC at a lower cost.

but seriously, think about it, why the need to ask ppl in the Mac community for advice to convince your nephew if a Mac is such an easy sell? it might be stupidity in our society, we've all been brain washed my M$. but not everyone wants to be different. your nephew is accustomed to a PC, his friends all run PCs, heck, the majority of the world runs on PC. do you think he's gonna all of a sudden switch to a Mac?

it was even a hard sell even for myself, to myself. and i've always wanted a Mac, ever since i started University. the Mini price point was what finally got me to take the plunge. only problem, like i said, is that i've not made much use of it. do i regret buying it? no, it was a learning experience for me. however, only thing is that it's been relegated to being just a toy for me.

MacME
Aug 8th, 2005, 09:44 PM
I can't think of one app, which the Mac doesn't have an alternative for. Honestly, have you checked out any of the great "Freeware/Shareware" sites? Keep in mind... these 3rd Party developers are the same thing that keeps Windows going as well. (Most even provide Windows and Mac Apps) It doesn't hurt to take a look. For Example... www.openoffice.org . This is your complete Microsoft Office alternative for Free.. A lot of the time, it's the Windows users who are so used to downloading Windows software, don't know where to look to get Mac software. In turn, making them think something isn't available.

I'd like to invite you to skim through this thread:

https://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=23912&highlight=Freeware+Thread

You'll find some great apps there, all free. :)

i know about the thread. if you look very carefully, you'll see that i actually contributed to that thread! ;)

travallee
Aug 9th, 2005, 10:42 AM
I just got my first mac over a year ago half way through my first year of university. It was one of the smartest things I ever did. It is so much easier to work on and can do anything I need. I am in engineering, so there are some programs I have to use that are only PC, but we have labs that run them, and if you must you can even pick up a windows emulator to run the few programs in a worst case scenario. Sure, everyone else has PCs (almost) but it was way easier for me to look after keeping a mac up and running than my PC. Anytime I needed to fix/change something it took no longer than 30 mins to figure it out myself, or find out how online, so there should be no reason why a problem should keep a mac down for a student at a university like western, because there is ample computer access, and if he also has someone in the family that knows about macs, another source of help is just a phone call away.