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Big (Bad) News for the Economy

2K views 16 replies 8 participants last post by  MacNutt 
#1 ·
#2 ·
This is pretty much what happens when you don't keep up with the competition, especially the Japanese and even now the Koreans are quickly eating into GM's market share, GM will pay for there mistakes(ie: Aztek, SSR, HHR) and pay dearly since Toyota is gunning for GM's #1 spot by the end of the decade.

Laterz :)
 
#3 ·
There is more to it - ALL the NA shops are burdened with very high pension and healthcare costs - to the tune of $2000 per vehicle.
No matter how efficient a company is that's a huge burden.

Change time - it's one reason I wish Canada would move off the auto biz dependency and have a world presence in alternative energies tho Ballard is a start.

Wonder if that will be the pin prick to collapse the US housing bubble......THEN look out. :eek:
 
#4 ·
This could affect Ontario directly and Canada as a consquence.

I guess the reality of pension plans is finally coming home to roost so to speak. They are really a relativley new idea and with people starting to a) retire earlier and b) live longer, the idea may have to be re-evaluated.

Anyone care to look up the history of the capitalist pension plan? Or is it more of a socialist idea?
 
#5 ·
MacDoc said:
There is more to it - ALL the NA shops are burdened with very high pension and healthcare costs - to the tune of $2000 per vehicle.
No matter how efficient a company is that's a huge burden.

Change time - it's one reason I wish Canada would move off the auto biz dependency and have a world presence in alternative energies tho Ballard is a start.

Wonder if that will be the pin prick to collapse the US housing bubble......THEN look out. :eek:
Very true MacDoc but the Big3(?) are doomed to stagnate and collapse even the Japanese and soon the Koreans will be making inroads into the Big3's profits as they start releasing Pickup after Pickup Nissan and Toyota have now released full size pickups, Honda recently released the Ridgeline a small pickup but a fullsize 1 ton model is waiting, also Hyundai has a small pickup on the drawing board soon to be unveilled, as soon as the profits from the pickups and large SUV market dry up the Big3 will collapse, Ford will fall 1st, Chrysler 2nd, and last will be GM. Just think about the British in the 70's and how they tought there auto industry was untouchable now with the collapse of Rover a few months ago the only wholy owned British auto company is Morgan and they are on the edge of bankruptcy themselves.

Laterz :)
 
#6 ·
MacDoc said:
There is more to it - ALL the NA shops are burdened with very high pension and healthcare costs - to the tune of $2000 per vehicle.
No matter how efficient a company is that's a huge burden.
I disagree that employees are the burden to a company. After all, no employees, no product. It's obvious this car manufacturers aren't listening to the market. I also bet that the salaries/pensions/golden parachutes of the management/executive are out of whack. When this big companies execs need to cut benefits and jobs they never ever look to themselves and most often they get bonuses for the employees that they do cut.

I'm hopeful that this will shake up the auto industry to make better, more environmentally friendly cars.
 
#7 ·
K_OS said:
Ford will fall 1st, Chrysler 2nd, and last will be GM.
I think the order is wrong. GM will be first then Ford then Chrysler. This is inversely based upon innovation (or lack thereof). GM has had a terrible (the worst) track record when it comes to innovation. Seriously when was the last time they put a car out that turned heads? Ford has been doing some interesting things (ie. the new T Bird and Mustang) and Chrysler's design team has been going gang busters over the last 10 years (The Intrepid, 300, PT cruiser, Prowler, etc...).
 
#8 ·
da_jonesy said:
I think the order is wrong. GM will be first then Ford then Chrysler. This is inversely based upon innovation (or lack thereof). GM has had a terrible (the worst) track record when it comes to innovation. Seriously when was the last time they put a car out that turned heads? Ford has been doing some interesting things (ie. the new T Bird and Mustang) and Chrysler's design team has been going gang busters over the last 10 years (The Intrepid, 300, PT cruiser, Prowler, etc...).
Actually when you put it that way it looks and sounds good, but I was thinking more on how much cash each of these companies has on hand and GM is just loaded compared to Ford and Chrysler, I only put Chrysler 2nd because they are owned by Mercedes (who ever bought that merger of equals is just deluding themselves) but if the Mercedes Empire starts to go down they will spinoff Chrysler on it's own again and watch die a very fast death. Ford is Ford they do make some nice looking cars but alienating customers like myself(2000 Ford Focus) with there arrogance is only going to kill them in the future.

Laterz :)
 
#9 ·
Paul - I did not assign any blame - the company negotiated the contracts and they have fat executive salaries and inefficiencies as well but it's not a level playing field for the major airlines or the NA car majors.

Both managment and labour will have to work they way out of it. Much of this is happening in Germany as well.

When you HAVE to make big $ to pay your legacy costs then you tend to push the big vehicles where the profits are.........for a while.

Companies like GE had to reinvent themselves.......Chrysler made a deal.

It's the larger fallout if this triggers a spiral. Y'know - good for GM good for America......there is an inverse to that.

••

ALL the major US airlines are on life support as well.
 
#11 ·
and just how long are petro companies going to be holding the entire economy hostage?

saudi oil costs $2 a barrel, oil sands costs $12 / bbl, and what are they selling for?

can future nationalization of petro fuels be far behind?
looks like Trudeau and his NEP wasn't such a stupid idea, now, eh?

old rule of thumb - what's good for your neighbour is usually good for you
market forces are getting way out of control (oxymoron)
petro companies are raping the consumer - when's the last time you heard a petro executive bitch about ANYTHING?
 
#12 ·
They are not selling mass market cars.
Like Apple they build to a premium. Different market, different numbers.

Now the question is why MB luxury division sucks these days.....now THAT's mismanagement. Mangle your marque.
 
#13 ·
MACSPECTRUM said:
so riddle me this then,
how does BMW keep making such great cars and keep selling more every year
ok, so the iDrive on the 750 was a flop a few years ago

don't tell me that BMW has cheap labour costs
I think the difference is a national health care plan. I think our system and Germany's system makes it easier to do business. GM is the largest private health care deliverer in the US. They should be making cars, not health care plans.
 
#14 ·
High energy prices reflect a 40% fear premium. It's not hostage .......it's needed to wean inefficient economies off cheap oil.

The issue will be how to inflate to rebalance without a meltdown. Fun times ahead.
 
#15 ·
Vandave said:
I think the difference is a national health care plan. I think our system and Germany's system makes it easier to do business. GM is the largest private health care deliverer in the US. They should be making cars, not health care plans.
i totally agree
but just wonder why the neo cons don't wake up to that idea, both north and south of the border

thru personal income tax, the burden of health care is placed squarely at the feet of the tax payer and companies and employees are better off in the long run

then of course you have neo con mouth pieces like rush limbaugh and pat buchannan calling Canada - Kanuckistan - idiots - only have enuf brains to cash their cheques from the RNC
 
#16 ·
MACSPECTRUM said:
so riddle me this then,
how does BMW keep making such great cars and keep selling more every year
ok, so the iDrive on the 750 was a flop a few years ago

don't tell me that BMW has cheap labour costs
BMW is one of those companies that is blessed with allot of talent in there engineering and design studios they keep on putting out hit after hit, because BMW cater's to the premium car market they can charge 35g's for something that Chevy will charge 20g's for.

Laterz :)
 
#17 ·
BMW has a tiny segment of the market. And I hate to break this to you Michael, but a LOT of automotive writers aren't actually giving Beemers top marks these days. Especially in the all important styling department.

And Germany has almost the same pension/labour problems as the USA. The biggest difference is that the average German is heavily taxed to top up the health care. GM has to shoulder the burden itself. GM is also about fifty three times larger than BMW.

Oh...by the way...about ten years or so back BMW was in serious trouble, and there was a lot of talk about the family that holds the majority of shares in Bayerische Motor Werke selling out to GM. I kid you not! There was even speculation that the resulting company would become a wholly-owned subsidiary of General Motors. And would be called...wait for it...GMW. ;) :D
 
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