: Sell me on OSX


yoyo
Aug 3rd, 2003, 01:25 PM
I just found this amazing site. I am now using a 8600/233 with sys. 9.1. I would like some member input as to why I should make the leap to a new mac so I can run OSX. I use my mac for fun only but I am starting to feel left behind in the mac world. My kids want new games, itunes and a faster cd burned than the current 2X . I don't have access to use a new mac for a long term test so any input would be great. Also what mac will run OSX fast and reliable, with my $600 budget? What are the min. requirments to be for the new OSX soon to come? Sell me now.

TroutMaskReplica
Aug 3rd, 2003, 01:39 PM
I had been using the old mac operating system (7 thru 9.2.2) for years, in school and professionally. and when I saw the first screenshots of OS X shortly after its release, I thought to myself 'they've got to be joking.' It looked like a gimmicky candy coloured monstrosity, and I had heard that it ran very slow compared to the old system, so I held off upgrading for several years.

Somewhat reluctantly,I took the plunge early this year with Jaguar and, I have to tell you, X is far, far superior to classic. Far superior. I've not had a system crash since upgrading, the multi-tasking is brilliant -- you can do other stuff while an application is opening, and by the way, if an application freezes and stops responding, the Force Quit dialog actually works 100% of the time. The productivity gains from not having to deal with system freezes two or three times a day are worth the upgrade alone.

phew. I think that's the longest post I've ever posted. My fingers are gettin cramped up now.

cheers.

TroutMaskReplica
Aug 3rd, 2003, 01:47 PM
regarding hardware: with your budget, get a low end G4 tower. 350mhz - 450mhz. buy locally, so you can test the thing before you shell out the cash. then max out the ram, which isn't expensive at all to do. i'm guessing if you have Jaguar, you probably won't need to bother with Panther. From what I've read on the Apple site, the two systems are not that different. X will run beautifully on a low end G4. itunes and all the other 'i' programs run flawlessly on my home machine (g4 400, 832mb ram), there doesn't seem to be a limit to how many programs I can have open at once.

neema
Aug 3rd, 2003, 01:58 PM
hey yoyo. i'd say just upgrade what you have. Pickup either a Crescendo/PCI G3 500 ($169US Retail) or a G4 700 ($269US Retail) from Sonnet Technologies. These upgrade cards will make your computer all fast and updated for X! =D

Then, I'd say do a few more things. Not in this order:

1) Upgrade to a PCI-based Radeon Video Card
2) Max out your system to the 1gb of ram it can take... if it isn't in your budget... do it little by little, but the more ram you have in X, the better.
3) Get a Tempo Trio card from Sonnet Technologies so that you get USB2, FireWire and IDE.
4) Then, using the ports on your Tempo Trio, pick up a cheap 40gb drive for your computer.

That's it! I don't think I'm forgetting anything but someone let me know if I am.

This way, in a short amount of time, you could have a G4/700 with 1gb of ram (or even 512mb will do) and a 40gb hard drive.

Oh and BTW, you can pick up a cheap 48x CD burner for about $50. I guess you'd have to have the Tempo Trio installed to use an IDE CD Burner.

Hope that helps!

MasterBlaster
Aug 3rd, 2003, 02:26 PM
a

Klaatu
Aug 3rd, 2003, 02:53 PM
Also what mac will run OSX fast and reliable, with my $600 budget If that's your limit I wouldn't bother. Bloodyface makes some excellent suggestions but I doubt you can find a used G4 for $600. You may be able to get a system fast enough to run OS X for that budget, but you would have zero left over to upgrade your existing software, including the Jaguar purchase.

Even with Jaguar I still find OS 9 more responsive in my G4 enhanced G3 with 512 MB RAM. But I use it because a lot of the latest/greatest software is only available in OS X (which may be your interest). A lot depends on your priorities:

1) What games do you want?
2) Why do you want iTunes? (if it's simply for playing and working with music there are plenty of alternatives)

If these point you towards needing OS X I would simply upgrade your current system with a faster processor (with your system a faster G3 is a better and cheaper alternative than a G4 upgrade), more RAM, a new video card and maybe even a new faster drive (this alone will give you a significant speed boost)

Klaatu
Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:01 PM
You could buy my B&W rev.2 G3 400 mhz, 40gb 7200 rpm hd, fast 48x24x48x16 LG combo drive, ATI Rage 128, Firewire, USB, 384 mb ram original keyboard and mouse plus microsoft optical scroll mouse for $600.
Masterblaster makes the wisest suggestion yet. This is an excellent offer and that machine still has great upgrade possibilities down-the-road, if you so desire. Jaguar will still be a bit sluggish and, if I recall, you'll need to partition the drive so that Jaguar is installed on the first 9GB of the drive. You can install OS 9 of the second partition and switch back-and-forth depending on your needs.

yoyo
Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:12 PM
I thought that a B+W could run OSX. Is it members opinion that G4 is the min.? I feel that by the time I make all of the upgrades I could have bought a much faster mac. Eventually the purchace will have to be made.I've given up on ebay and like the idea of a local purchace to avoid shipping, taxes, duty, and the worry of a sour deal.
There must be more OSX advocates out there. Give me your reviews of X.

TroutMaskReplica
Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:19 PM
I tend to think that the upgrade road is too much of a hassle, and potentially frought with problems, although I wouldn't entirely discount the idea without looking into prices first. After a few upgrades on a machine that old the law of diminishings returns starts to set in I would think, after comparing the cost of buying another machine versus the cost upgrading the hell out of the one you have.

Klaatu is right that it would be difficult to get a G4 for $600, but I suggets stretch your budget a little if you can and get the G4. Prices are dropping quickly. You can pick up a used one retail for under a grand, and buying privately would save you the tax plus another 15-30%. So even if you had another $150-$200 to spend....A G4 with AGP graphics would get you more upgrade potential.

Just my thoughts on the matter. I was in a similar position to you a couple months ago, and after wrestling with the pros/cons I eventually went with the G4 400 I'm using now.

cheers.

TroutMaskReplica
Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:30 PM
i'd suggest staying away from ebay. heard too many stories. stuff comes up frequently on the trading post here, just try and stay local for the reasons stated above.

the prices tend to be a little high, so don't be afraid to haggle privately and/or pass on the deal if the seller won't give in. whatever you do, don't comment on prices publicly, as it's considered bad form around here, and will undoubtedly land you in hot water and elicit a huge debate. just looking out for you.

btw, if you decide to go the B&W route, try not to pay more than $400. i know that sellers are asking for $600 or more, but i don't think you would want to pay that much for something that's basically the same as what you have now, just a few megahertz faster.

cheers.

monokitty
Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:49 PM
nd, if I recall, you'll need to partition the drive so that Jaguar is installed on the first 9GB of the drive.That rule applies to the Beige G3 only.

MasterBlaster
Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:57 PM
a

monokitty
Aug 3rd, 2003, 04:08 PM
and one open memory expansion slot that can accomodate another stick up to 512mb additional memory.If this was true, a Blue and White G3 would be able to hold 2 GB of SDRAM - 4x512 MB. Even though a Blue and White G3 may be able to hold a 512 MB DIMM, it either a) reads it as a 256 MB DIMM, or b) will only read 1 GB total SDRAM even if technically 2 GB of SDRAM is installed via 4x512 MB.

EDIT: You probably mean it can hold another 128 DIMM for a total of 512 MB. However, each slot can actually hold a 256 MB DIMM for a total of 1 GB of SDRAM.

MasterBlaster
Aug 3rd, 2003, 04:19 PM
a

monokitty
Aug 3rd, 2003, 04:29 PM
but only a maximum of two of them in a machine?Correct - doesn't matter what your configuration. If the total amount of SDRAM breaches 1 GB, the G3 will not read the extra amount over 1 GB.

MasterBlaster
Aug 3rd, 2003, 04:36 PM
a

yoyo
Aug 3rd, 2003, 06:57 PM
thanks bloodyface , hope the finger cramps are gone. I've seen G3 350 go for just over 200 us dollars on ebay over the last while, but they all come out of the US and shipping is crazy, even from NY state. I will continue to watch this site as there does seem to be alot of GTA stuff. I have been told that a Beige G3 is much faster than my 8600/233 but that mac does not get OSX support from Apple. Also the problems that I've read from upgrade users trying to run OSX are not what I want to deal with. I don't think that's what macs are all about. Kind of like running windoes with an emulation program. And upgrade machines don't fetch much on resale. I wresseled with the thought of buying one to pull the card, ram and others goodies but decided I must resist and wait to get the real thing.I must say that under 9.1 thes old mac runs better than ever, except for IE. I read somewhere the only way to keep your mac happy is to avoid Microsoft products.

monokitty
Aug 3rd, 2003, 09:49 PM
Beige G3 is much faster than my 8600/233 but that mac does not get OSX support from Apple.Quite a few ehMac'rs say the samething, which is incorrect. The Beige G3 is completely supported by Apple under Mac OS X.

RicktheChemist
Aug 3rd, 2003, 10:27 PM
According to a few blurbs on the web.. not in Panther..

Cheers,

Rtc

monokitty
Aug 3rd, 2003, 10:31 PM
According to a few blurbs on the web.. not in Panther..And until Panther is released, we can't make speculations.

TroutMaskReplica
Aug 3rd, 2003, 10:34 PM
yoyo: quote "under 9.1 thes old mac runs better than ever, except for IE. I read somewhere the only way to keep your mac happy is to avoid Microsoft products."

back in the os 9 days i experienced endless grief with microsoft office extensions conflicting with my other software. for example, every time i wanted to use my 3d software, i'd have to go into the extensions manager and turn off about six extensions with the word 'microsoft' in their names. only then would i be able to use the application without freezing the system.

when i think of all the time that i wasted on this type of thing -- and believe me, a totally new set of problems seemed to crop up almost daily -- i wonder why i even stuck with apple. but then along came jaguar, just as i was seriously contemplating the cost of migrating my software to windows. jaguar solved everything.

if you haven't already, you should trek down to cpused or carbon computing or any store with models plugged in and on display. Spend about 20 min. on one of the machines, opening multiple programs, surfing the net. deliberately try to crash the machine. it's impossible. i think that would be the best way to sell yourself on X.

cheers.

MacDoc
Aug 3rd, 2003, 11:19 PM
"quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
but only a maximum of two of them in a machine?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct - doesn't matter what your configuration. If the total amount of SDRAM breaches 1 GB, the G3 will not read the extra amount over 1 GB. "

The above is entirely INCORRECT.
The B&W will only address 256 megs of RAM per slot and then it needs to be the correct two sided 256 RAM as the single sided presents the same problem as 512s - the individual chips on the substrate are too large to be addressed properly. Happens with G3 Powerbooks too.
And yes i know for sure. tongue.gif

As to your question the B&W Master Blaster offers is an excellent X entry.
DO NOT under any circumstances attempt X on your current box.

X is the futue but it's not for everyone. It's great with kids around as it's very stable but there will be hiccups. Having two boxes on the go and certianly a dual box like the Blue is a good idea.
The enhanced video card is very important.

There are some neat features in Panther that "advance the cause" :D
Gaming is a real issue and to satisfy that unless your kids are young I'd suggest a console.



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MasterBlaster
Aug 3rd, 2003, 11:59 PM
a

Britnell
Aug 4th, 2003, 01:39 AM
I would not put any money into upgrading so you can run Jaguar.

The system bus just will not support the higher processor speeds, so you waste money.

Buy a low end G4. Check with MacDoc or Carbon Computing to see what they have in stock.

mac java
Aug 5th, 2003, 02:32 AM
IF you can get a good deal on a used AGP G4 tower, the upgrade potential is there. Keep in mind though that by the time you upgrade and depending on what you upgrade, you could probably almost get into a new emac 1GHz superdrive with panther and all the iapps installed; if you wait until september. I must admit that I have no experince to speak of when it comes to upgrading macs. I have a G4 733 superdrive, G4 cube and a G3 500 powerbook. The only upgrade I have done to any of the computers was to add ram. They are all running mac osX 10.2.3 and lots of software with no complaints. Why should I upgrade? I know that lots of folks will tell you that the emac is this and that with no upgrade potential. I have played with the new emac and by todays standard, it is a more than capable machine. If I use the original imac as an example, no upgrade potential was exactly what people were saying when it was introduced. Today you can add new mother boards with firewire, more video, bigger disks, more ram... The new G4 emac is a huge advancement to the original imac in terms of system design. I can only imagine that in a few years time, upgrades will be numerous for the emac as well. The August issure of macaddict has a shootout between the new 1GHz emac and the 1 GHz imac. They claim the new emac wins over the imac in performance. Stop by a local apple vender and check one out. You cant go wrong by just looking it over. If you have a digital camera, bring it along and have some fun. Up your budget a bit, christamss is coming

JAMG
Aug 5th, 2003, 10:48 PM
If Jaguar is your destination, a beige G3 is ok, entry lvl but the limitations will quickly annoy you.

From what i've read Panther will not work on Beige Macs. Built in USB only.... B&W G3 is minimum, look for a deal on early G4s...

$600 might be a little optimistic until the G5 are in regular supply...

Bargins are there if you are not in a big hurry...