: Repeating the lies, until they're "true"....


CubaMark
Mar 21st, 2003, 10:24 PM
Damn NBC all to H-E-double-hockeysticks.

:mad: FURIOUS :mad:

...is how some of the media coverage of this war is making me. NBC, which seems to be a half-step less insane than Fox News, cut to a report by one of their reporters earlier this evening (around 9:30pm Atlantic) who said (key words correct, exact phrasing not guaranteed):

"...and there on your screen, the skyline of Baghdad... payback for 9/11... a canvas of Ground Zeroes..."

SON OF A <u>$%^&*</u> <u>^&*(</u> !!!

Yet another manipulation of the 'facts', blaming Saddam directly for the N.Y. terrorist attack, and thereby "justifying" the devastation that is being visited upon innocent civilians.

This is a blatant manipulation of the truth, one that even the Bush regime has not been stupid enough to put into specific words. But that's okay, since the sloppy (and as some continue -oddly- to call it, "liberal") media is more than happy to play with peoples' minds.

In a recent poll (February (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/columnists/trudy_rubin/5369890.htm)), the one that said over 70% of Americans think that Saddam arranged the 9/11 attacks? THIS KIND OF REPORTING IS WHY THEY BELIEVE THAT.

:rolleyes:
M

used to be jwoodget
Mar 21st, 2003, 11:25 PM
It's more than disturbing that some of the US media seem to be salivating at each turn of events. While propaganda is to be expected and Iraq would put out similar crap if it could, it is almost as if this is the ultimate Reality game for Fox (and the other three). What the heck are they going to follow this up with? Blind Assassin? The Dictator? Survivor - Baghdad.

The remedy is simple. Turn away and access real news. BBC World news is remarkably more objective, despite the participation of so many UK troops. No doubt, the Beeb will get flak for being so neutral.....

macello
Mar 22nd, 2003, 01:20 AM
I was a freshman at Indiana University when Kennedy was shot. Classes went on. There was not a day off to mourn the assassination. Only girls cried. There was a big football game the next day. It was just some crazy commie did it. Some local beat the **** out of me for being a " furhnuh". The Beatles had a minor hit "I Love You Yea Yea Yea ". Back then they were faggots with girly hair.
Other than that we didn't know much about England except that they had an empire once.
Texans ruled the US for the next six years. American kids were beaten and shot and sent off to a senseless war. Then Nixon for five years and then he was pardoned for criminal felonies while in office.
Don't be surprised or even disappointed now.
There's a lot of lashing out to be done south of the border. It gets that way. Stay below radar. http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war22.html

CubaMark
Mar 22nd, 2003, 01:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by used to be jwoodget:
The remedy is simple. Turn away and access real news. BBC World news is remarkably more objective.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, I'm a BEEB addict from 'way back. What concerns me is the fact that the majority of Americans and Canadians are not choosing to flip away from the sensationalized versions of this "war" as presented by CNN, NBC, CBS and to a slightly lesser extent, ABC.

:mad:
M

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 07:54 AM
Sadly, gone are the days of the Edward R. Morrow reports from the rooftops of their London studio about the London Blitz. Or Walter Cronkite and Eric Severide reporting on the situation in Vietnam.

CubaMark, my son and his friend were watching CNN when his friend chimed in while watching one of the computer-generated graphics of the bombing runs at the onset of "A-day" -- "Man, I would like a computer game like that!" I was shocked.

minnes
Mar 22nd, 2003, 08:09 AM
It is all American propaganda, and it is sickening.
The US media has learned the technique, of repeating something enough times can make anyone beleive it.
I too dont see the connection between bombing Iraq and Sept 11, that the media claims. Please , someone enlighten me.

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 09:04 AM
My son was watching CNN and I overheard that the CNN crew was just "expelled" from Iraq. Personally, I have always been astounded that they were able to remain in Iraq this long, presenting the array of information and pictures that they have this past week or so.

Mississauga
Mar 22nd, 2003, 10:57 AM
American media is the biggest propaganda machine since the fall of the Soviet Union. From the first moments of the attack on Iraq, I turned a deaf ear to the American network reporting and only watched in awe and horror as the bombs exploded.

Anti-American sentiment can only grow stronger if their own media is allowed to report such BS! Or is the media ordered/payed to distribute this CRAP???

Long live the truth... whatever the heck that is!

MACSPECTRUM
Mar 22nd, 2003, 11:27 AM
cuba mark quoted NBC:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "...and there on your screen, the skyline of Baghdad... payback for 9/11... a canvas of Ground Zeroes..." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Think maybe Walter Cronkite wants to come out of retirement to show the boys and girls "how it is supposed to be done?"

A very sad moment indeed for NBC and it's coverage.
Truth has not only been a casualty, but I think it has been assassinated.

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 12:03 PM
Macspectrum, I remember that after Walter, the Huntley-Brinkley NBC Nightly News was the most watched and respected major source of news. How the mighty have fallen.......and to what depths?!?

Clockwork
Mar 22nd, 2003, 12:29 PM
There is so Propaganda who knows what is true or untrue. Listening to the media is like talking to a compulsive liar. I think its the fifty fifty rule. Half of the reports are half truths and the the other half is a bunch of bs. I wouldn't be surprised if Saddam had something to do with 9/11 though. Osama hated Saddam in 91 now he likes him. Kinda strange??

CubaMark
Mar 22nd, 2003, 06:16 PM
Clockwork,

...and there it is. Thanks for providing more support for my argument. By saying that "Osama likes Saddam," you are repeating what most of America (and, no doubt, Canada) thinks - and which is not true.

In the audiotaped message to which you refer, Osama indeed express his hope that Saddam gives America some "big hurt" when they invade... but he also has some not-so-nice words for Hussein:

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/Al-Atraqchi_Osama-Saddam.htm

As ever, we must be on guard for, as Chomsky would say, the "Manufacturing of Consent".

I'll have the photo gallery for today's peace march in Halifax online sometime later tonight.

M.

AlienRadar
Mar 22nd, 2003, 07:11 PM
[QUO
"...and there on your screen, the skyline of Baghdad... payback for 9/11... a canvas of Ground Zeroes..."
[/QB][/QUOTE]

I didnt hear that...I watched it on CNN,but I thought afterwards that all the Bubbas must be high-fiving each other,saying "Take THAT, you [email protected]$^ing towel-heads !!", and sending Billy-Bob down to the likker store cuz it's party time.

Yes, BBC,Newsworld and French TV5 are more objective and have a different slant on things,especially TV5 who still have a hefty contingent of reporters in the country and are pointing out the confusion in the north part of Iraq between the Kurds, Yanks and Turks.

But, at that moment, when those pictures of those huge bombs going off were on the screen,I thought...will this be enough for the Americans? Will they finally feel revenge for 9/11 seeing how Afghanistan didnt really have much to blow up?

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 07:27 PM
AlienRadar, I lived in Athens, Georgia and Waycross, Georgia for five years prior to coming to Canada. I have also traveled around the south, in both rural and urban settings. Granted, I have seen the so-called "Bubbas", as you phrase it, but I have also experienced educated, compassionate, and knowledgeable people throughout the south, which is where I assume you referred to with the use of the term "Bubba" (I am from New York City and it's not a term utilized in the northeast). It would be helpful for anyone to take your arguement seriously if you refrain from utilizing these sort of terms for people whom you don't know.

If I was in error as to whom you directed your "Bubba" term towards, or the connotation of this term, I am willing to stand corrected.

ehMax
Mar 22nd, 2003, 08:23 PM
I don't get CNN, but have been watching ABC news quite a bit. I definitely don't think its a propaganda machine by any stretch of the imagination. They have been covering a lot of the protest, interviewing the organizers... did a timeline of the conflict with Saddam and pointed out that much of this has to do with America's earlier support of Saddam. Its news coverage from a US approach because well.., its US news. But a propaganda machine? Don't think so.

I watch a lot of CBC news... they have great coverage in my opinion. They ran a very interesting show last night called something like "Growing Hate" or something Hate. Very, very scarry sh!* how many Islmaic Arabs HATE America. The US better play their cards right after this war is over. It will take a looooong time (many generations) for the US to ever gain respect in much of the Arab world even if they did everything right. Pretty simply stated comments but it really brings pause thinking about it.

The comment by the NBC newsperson sounds awful though. :rolleyes:

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 08:28 PM
ehMax, what I find disturbing is the actual rush to be the first on air with an "exclusive" item/interview/photograph. When this takes place, the reality (i.e., the truth) of the situation might be slanted or inaccurate. I am not saying that this is the case all or some of the time, but the possibility is there in this rush to be there first. I call it the "CNNization" of the reporting of the news in electronic journalism settings.


On a totally different note, you should make jeac5 a full citizen. He just reported that he read the ENTIRE Monster Thread in one sitting. If you believe him, and I have no reason to doubt his honesty and integrity, then you should grant him the full citizenship NOW (he wants a knighthood, but that is beyond my power or desire, since I am certainly not the mayor or a supporter of the monarchy).

jeac5
Mar 22nd, 2003, 09:14 PM
Awww shucks. Thanks Dr. G. and you know, it is so interesting that you should say this because I have been wondering how one becomes a full citizen here in ehmacland. I would be soooo grateful, I wouldn't even miss the knighthood. Seriously though, how does one accomplish this feat? And Dr. G., not that you would know, but I'm a she. ;)

MacDoc
Mar 22nd, 2003, 09:26 PM
"but I'm a she"...a gurrrrrrl :eek: ....here :eek: hmmmmph ;)
Good - welcome aboard - get a more representative community here. :cool:

jeac5
Mar 22nd, 2003, 09:32 PM
Wow! Are girls a rare species here in ehmacland? I didn't know. Is there a way that I can be alerted to all girly threads, like flowers and kittens and such? Just kidding (hehe), glad to be along for the ride. And, thanks for the welcome macdoc.

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 09:35 PM
jeac5, sorry for the confusion. I guess that ehMacLand is gender neutral, but one tends to slip into old habits in this mostly male community. I do apologize for any inconvenience this might have caused you, in that I am always telling my students to be conscious of the books they ask their students to utilize in the classroom, since some may contain gender stereotypes. Sorry.

Don't mind Macdoc, he doesn't get out much, but he is certainly one of the "good guys" here in ehMacLand. He is also one of the many MacMavens (pardon my alliteration), and is most helpful re Mac-related questions for those who have various types of Macs....and even for those who will soon be getting a Mac. :D

jeac5
Mar 22nd, 2003, 09:46 PM
Dr. G., no offense taken at all. I have noticed that you are on the list for a delivery from the Mac Gods. I hope it arrives safely and soon, with the correct number of appendages. I too, feel as if I am awaiting a mac, although not my first. I have purchased a powerbook from macmaniac through this forum and it has just taken much longer than I had anticipated for it to actually make it into the mail. I was beginning to lose hope. So, I am currently macless as well. This should be resolved this week, though. My last baby has been given up and has moved on to a new life. I wish it well...

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 11:13 PM
jeac5, I hope to place an order with the Computer Purchasing Centre here at MUN in the next couple of weeks for a new iMac. My last Mac was an LC II, and OS 7 was all the rage (although I did not upgrade). You could read all about it in the Son of Monster Thread, started by ful, and entitled "Did Dr.G. ever get a Mac?" Bring along some tissues, because the parts that "blast me to bits" will bring tears to even the most stoical person. Still, I have prevailed, and it won't be long now.

What Mac did you finally order? I think you mentioned this before, but if you keep repeating yourself on this point, you shall make it to full citizen earlier.

Clockwork
Mar 23rd, 2003, 08:56 AM
I was reading that article and who is this guy? People can write what they want regardless of it being the truth. I am not saying CNN is the truth (which I do not beleive) and this guy is lying but there is no referances to anything this guy wrote. I would realy like to see the exact speech by Bin Laden with the arabic translation and even then it is hard to beleive. It also says in the article the man "thought to be Bin Laden". I am sure Bin Laden does not like Saddam all that much but hates the U.S more. If it came down to it Bin Laden would buy weapons from Saddam and I certianly beleive that both Sadam and Bin Laden need to be wiped out before we have more 9/11's. I also do not agree with the comment of Iraq being Socialist either, what is socialist about Iraq. He keeps all the money and starves his people. Sounds like evil Dictatorship to me. This world is too political with too many forces to know what the truth realy is. We will never know the truth because there are those who will cover up, lie and tell us what they think we want to hear.

adagio
Mar 23rd, 2003, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ehMax:

I watch a lot of CBC news... they have great coverage in my opinion. They ran a very interesting show last night called something like "Growing Hate" or something Hate. Very, very scarry sh!* how many Islmaic Arabs HATE America.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been hearing the same thing for months now from the many Islamic folks that I work with. What is even scarier is some of that HATE is starting to show it's ugly head here apparently. Right now that is the opinion of a very tiny few but this stuff has a way of feeding upon itself.
It's my fear that it is too late to change the opinions of the Arab world, even if the US plays it's cards right.

It's for this reason that I was anti-war. As much as I would like to see Saddam go, I did not want it to happen at the hands of any western nation.

MacDoc
Mar 23rd, 2003, 10:21 AM
Adagio - accurate post - this "terror" threat is becoming an excuse for suspension not only of civli rights but civility.
http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1035779485896

THIS IS A CANADIAN CITIZEN IN CANADA :eek:
Now it's one thing when the US immigration does does it - they have a reputation as thugs anyway if your skin if any colour other than white.
Seems to be catching. :rolleyes:
This entire sitution is really polarizing the planet.
The "silverlining" may be bringing people of like mind together from all over the planet. Just as the Iron Curtain was undermined by open information between people this nascent American hegemony may be most held to account by individuals far too aware of the danger it represents.


Dr. G you are a bit thin skinned these days, I think YOU perhaps are not "getting out" with modern girls enough ;)
jeac5 read my drift just fine and I'm sure got a chuckle from it as I did from her appropriate response.
I have very specific credentials in supporting real equality of the sexes in all areas which no one so far has cottoned on to despite a couple or oblique hints in earlier posts tongue.gif
For many reasons nothing would please me more than seeing women getting into a far more truly balanced power situation vis a vis men in ALL societies including our own. There ARE differences in men and women's viewpoints and priorities and that diversity is exceedingly valuable to a societies that take advantage of it.
"Hilary for President"...oops wrong country - let's see if THAT lights off a few lurking misogynists ;)

MacDoc
Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:09 PM
I just watched the CNN interview of Rumsfeld and I found that Wolf asked some very pointed questions that were not at all "scripted" or propaganda oriented.
CNN appears to be responding to criticism about coverage of protests and "bias' in their reporting.
I mean he flat out asked if the bombing of Baghdad - despite it being precise - was not in itself terrorizing and perhaps turning the Iraqi people against the US and in particular providing fodder for terrorists.
Rumsfeld - as would be expected - was far more hawkish in language and comments. He wavered between calm resolve and inflammatory language "dead enders" etc.
CNN 1 Rumfeld 0...my score. tongue.gif

MacDoc
Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by macdoc:
Adagio - accurate post - this "terror" threat is becoming an excuse for suspension not only of civli rights but civility.
http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp /cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1035779485896 (http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1035779485896)

THIS IS A CANADIAN CITIZEN IN CANADA :eek:
Now it's one thing when the US immigration does it - they have a reputation as thugs anyway if your skin if any colour other than white.
Seems to be catching. :rolleyes:
This entire situation is really polarizing the planet.
The "silverlining" may be bringing people of like mind together from all over the planet. Just as the Iron Curtain was undermined by open information between people this nascent American hegemony may be most held to account by individuals far too aware of the danger it represents. And it is and will hammer them in the pocket book.


Dr. G you are a tad thin skinned these days, I think YOU perhaps are not "getting out" with modern girls enough ;)
jeac5 read my drift just fine and I'm sure got a chuckle from it as I did from her appropriate response.
I have very specific credentials in supporting real equality of the sexes in all areas which no one so far has cottoned on to despite a couple or oblique hints in earlier posts tongue.gif
For many reasons nothing would please me more than seeing women getting into a far more truly balanced power situation vis a vis men in ALL societies including our own. There ARE differences in men and women's viewpoints and priorities and that diversity is exceedingly valuable to a societies that take advantage of it.
"Hilary for President"...oops wrong country - let's see if THAT lights off a few lurking misogynists ;)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

adagio
Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:39 PM
macdoc: I don't condone what happened to that Canadian woman from Brampton but I have to put my 2 cents in here. There are over zealous immigration officials everywhere.
This is nothing new and has been happening for years, long before 9/11. Talk about the media sensationalizing! Stories like this would barely have been mentioned before.
My mother was detained for 3 hours about 5 or 6 years ago after returning from a vacation in Mexico. They didn't like her paperwork either. May I note she's as white as they come. It didn't make the headlines that a person in a wheelchair had been harrassed at Pearson Airport. :rolleyes:

Clockwork
Mar 23rd, 2003, 12:45 PM
What is realy scary is in 20 years or so after this war. Some of the kids grow up with no parents because they were killied in the war. Many times some kids are told in the East and other countries that the US are no good etc etc blame them they killed your parents and when you have no way of knowing the truth you bleeive it. Some of those kids are the ones that will be next wave of terrorists beacuse they develope hatred. Violence breeds more violence. Some of those kids dont care what the truth is. They only know that it was the US that bombed them, killed thier family and friends. It is realy sad that this happens to people when they are caught in the middle of politics. When it comes to war it never ends. It breeds more violence.

used to be jwoodget
Mar 23rd, 2003, 01:00 PM
Yesterday, I overheard one of my sons friends talking to other friend about the Iraq situation. He said his teacher was asking what the class thought about the war and the fact that half of Iraqs population is under 15 years old (they are in grade 9). He replied, "It's full of future terrorists then".

jeac5
Mar 23rd, 2003, 04:30 PM
Dr. G., in answer to your question concerning the mac I have purchased, it is a Powerbook G3 Lombard, 400Mhz, 256MB, 15GB drive, DVD. I am looking forward to it greatly. I decided to change my profile and while there, I thought 'Favourite Canadian'? Hmmm. I think Pierre Trudeau, but didn't input it. Then, after doing this I realized that I could check the profiles of all posts and so checked yours as it was directly above my post. And who should be your favourite Canadian? Pierre Trudeau! Bit of a coincidence, I thought. I don't think there will ever be another like him. By the way, I am still a neighbour. Sigh.

used to be jwoodget
Mar 23rd, 2003, 04:52 PM
jeac5, no worries. You'll be updated by the mayor when he gets to it. Just know that citizenship status is irrelevant to posting and there aren't any "rewards" in any case.

Ehmax, maybe you should just inactivate the "new neighbour/full citizen" flag? It seem sto concern people unnecessarily. I think its meant to help identify new members so they will be welcomed but it seems to have the effect of making people feel like they are "newbies".

The number of posts provides the same sort of indication (although there are many people who have been here for ages and have few posts - they've presumably got lives smile.gif ).

Dr.G.
Mar 23rd, 2003, 05:54 PM
jwoodget, my son, who is 16, can't understand why I don't fully support the war in Iraq, nor can he understand why I did not go to fight in Vietnam. Sometimes I have to wonder where he gets his views about world politics. :(

Dr.G.
Mar 23rd, 2003, 05:56 PM
jeac5, I have always admired Trudeau's policy towards the US and the rest of the world. I heard him speak when he was here in St.John's, and he is quite captivating in person. I can't say that I agreed with everything he did as PM, but he represents what is good about Canada, at least in my opinion.

MacNutt
Mar 23rd, 2003, 07:25 PM
Not out here, he didn't. :mad:

Dr.G.
Mar 23rd, 2003, 07:35 PM
Macnutt, my in-laws, who are all from Alberta, feel the same way that you do, but my wife and I respect Trudeau. So, we all agree to disagree and get on with our lives. You and I can do the same I trust.

MacDoc
Mar 23rd, 2003, 08:54 PM
Adagio - thre is nothing wrong with checking a passport - there is big time wrong in the attitude that officer evinced. Throwing personal documents in the garbage....give me a break. I don't care if it happened before it should not be happening period.
I had a far less intense but similar attitude from a little hitler at the Lewiston border. Well his superior got an earful and I got an apology. Wasn't the first time with this guy apparently.
His attitude and approach was just atrocious as was the officer dealing with the Canadian returning from India.
I sincerely hope the officer loses her job - I do not want someone with that attitude being the "welcoming party" for visitors to Canada - let alone returning citizens :mad:
It's not being sensationalized, it's being aired out. Poor attitudes on the part of officials and ingrained racism deserves the fullest exposure and censure.
Of all times, NOW is most important time that immigration and border officers be extremely professional and respectful in their attitudes.
Anyone exposed to this kind of attitude either directly or as an observer should immediately have a supervising officer summoned.
Someone said earlier that I was "Crying Wolf" about how human rights are being trampled. Those that want control over populations are "Crying Wolf" over the magnitude of the threat that terrorism represents and like many repressive regimes in the past, are using the "threat to National Security" to suspend individual freedoms and rights.
It will be an ongoing battle to keep that repression at bay.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0414-01.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/mind/s746060.htm

http://loper.org/~george/archives/2002/Feb/0095.html

http://www.progressive.org/0901/roth0102.html

And these are all by American's who are very concerned.