: Tim Hortons


(( p g ))
Mar 18th, 2003, 04:08 PM
This has been a heavy week for news and so much of it is war talk and other gloomy discussions, so I thought I might contribute a post to help lighten things up a little. Given that this is a Canadian board, this topic should still be sort of a-propos...

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed a steep and sudden decline in the quality of doughnuts at Tim Hortons? I had read somewhere that they're testing out this new method of using frozen dough. All I can say about this new approach is that the end result is a product that looks and tastes cheap and is half the size of its former self.

For a business that depends heavily on doughnut sales as part of their revenue, this move is just plain foolish. Something must be done. Canada's pastry science is a sacred institution and worth fighting for!

MACSPECTRUM
Mar 18th, 2003, 04:10 PM
Can you say; "New Coke?" :D

Dr.G.
Mar 18th, 2003, 04:11 PM
Patrick, I am not a doughnut person, but I love their muffins and oatmeal raisin cookies. No change in quality with these items, at least not in our local TH.

Tomac
Mar 18th, 2003, 04:54 PM
I remember many years ago, their donuts seemed basically 1 1/2 to 2 times bigger than they are now. Boston creams have NO filling -- not much -- now. It's like they're now selling a Timbit for the price of a donut -- that's what it feels like. How about those Hawaiian sprinkle donuts? They're so puny! MMmmmm... Sprinkles... WAIT A SEC, WHERE'D THEY ALL GO????

They've tried to maintain SIMILAR prices, downsize their products and fool the customer -- evil yet common these days. :rolleyes:

CubaMark
Mar 18th, 2003, 05:02 PM
Seems Tim Horton's hasn't been the same since the 1997 purchase by Wendy's Restaurants, Inc.

Such a shame for a Canadian icon to now be in the hands of the yankees....

M

SomeNSome
Mar 18th, 2003, 05:17 PM
You noticed the difference!.. you weren't suppose to.

My friend is a manager at a Tim Hortons here in Ottawa. Tim Hortons is no longer frying their donuts, their BAKING THEM. :eek: All in the name of eating healthier. Also they aren’t made in the stores anymore or even in the city. As an example Ottawa gets all their donuts from the Kingston area, shipped each morning frozen. Then the individual stores heat the donuts up a fancy new microwave, ready for sale.

Can’t say if they’re better or not, as I’m not at Tim Hortons that much.

Pamela
Mar 18th, 2003, 05:28 PM
You know, being from the West Coast all my life, I couldn't figure out this whole Canada/donut joke.

UNTIL....I went on a road trip last summer all the way from Victoria to Eastern Nova Scotia.

NOOOOOOOOOOW I get it. LOL!!! It's TOTALLY an eastern thing. I don't think I've ever seen so many Tim Hortons. And when I was in...what was it...Brampton or something, I was taken to the new Crispy Creams at 10pm on a Wednesday night. IT WAS PACKED!!! I couldn't believe it. What I couldn't believe even MORE was that they were giving out samples. These samples were FULL DONUTS!! LOL. I don't think I would even think of eating more than one donut?! SO I got one...then left. I didn't know what else to do...

Crazy Canadians.

p.s. nice topic Patrick ;)

MacDoc
Mar 18th, 2003, 05:35 PM
I actually think Tim's did the right thing by making smaller donuts and now the baking thing is good.
Rather than lifting prices and providing horrible bloated things like you get at other donut shops I find Tim's offerings tasty, well priced and - of course I'm left wanting one more with my coffee. tongue.gif
Krispy Kreme will have no long term clientele because of the "fat factor". Tim's has blown by MacD's as Canada's #1 franchise for good reason.
The right products at an excellent price. :D Their meal deals are terrific.

Clients sometimes bring me Apple Fritters as I mention them on my web site in the "about us" section. I like the lumpy ones with lots of apple bits and a bit crunchy on the outside - yum. :eek:
Baked donuts get my vote - less guilt, better for you and still tasty - hey donuts are for dunkin'!!

Pamela
Mar 18th, 2003, 06:12 PM
HA! My husband just came home and he said he got a coffee and some timbits?! He never does that (it was early and nothing else was open). Talking about the taste difference...I happened to ask him how they were (not telling him that I'd heard they'd changed their cooking process) and he said they were ok, but that they tasted like they were a couple of days old...kinda hard and stale-ish. So there's HIS two cents.

used to be jwoodget
Mar 18th, 2003, 06:34 PM
Jeez, I've just sent in my citizenship application and I forgot to include a few Roll Up the Rim the Win cups. I've no chance...

macdoc, I agree about the Apple Fritters. Not so good when soggy. I'm all for down-sizing the donuts though, cos my middle needs downsizing. I also have a terrible addiction to French Vanilla cappuchino - so much so that the counter people don't need to ask me what I want. In fact, these people tend to memorize the daily caffeine habits of the 600 people they serve a day (its in a hospital lobby, constant line-up except at lunch time as they don't serve soup or sandwiches).

BTW, RUTRTW is one of my research funding agencies. So far (this season) three wins - coffee, donut, cookie.

Tim's is doing just great.

thirdeyevision
Mar 18th, 2003, 07:10 PM
A little off topic...

Is Tim Hortons' coffee the choice of Canadians or an urban legend they've created through marketing?

The reason I ask is, to be honest, I'm not fond of their coffee at all. I'm a fairly heavy coffee drinker and TH coffee ranks on the bottom of the list for me. I normally get an odd reaction but I prefer McDonald's coffee - well, before they recently switched suppliers, I believe it was Higgins & Burke coffee before. I always make an effort to get anything but TH and it baffles me that they seem to be the favoured choice - at least that's what I'm making of it from the many TH's always popping up.

SomeNSome
Mar 18th, 2003, 07:33 PM
All Starbucks for me with a little sprinkle of Moca Loca (http://www.mocalocacafe.com/home.htm). I like Moca Loca because it's owned locally with all the quality. You can usually say hi to the owner, as he's in the store, which says a lot too me.

I definitely think I need a coffee...I'm still at work...

used to be jwoodget
Mar 18th, 2003, 07:41 PM
Whaddya mean you're still at work, some of us never seem to leave..... Oh, you're in Ottawa smile.gif

THs coffee is OK but I wouldn't rank it as great. If I can afford it, I prefer Second Cup but its across the street and more expensive... Plus they just scrapped their freebie card.

Dr.G.
Mar 18th, 2003, 07:59 PM
jwoodget, being both a US and Canadian citizen, you may put my name down as a reference for your citizenship papers. I think highly of you, and can sincerely support your citizenship process.

To whom it may concern,
................................... (to be continued)

Macdoc, if you like TH's Apple Fritters (as I do) you would LOVE the apple cake my wife makes on my birthday. She got the recipe from a Jewish cookbook I gave to her one Hanukkah/Christmas, and adds a bit more apple than the recipe calls for, but this makes the cake "to die for" (I always hated that expression until I tried this cake!!!)

Tim Horton had enabled Wendy's to make a profit in the last fiscal year. I wonder what McDonalds will have to do to achieve this similar result???

thirdeyevision
Mar 18th, 2003, 08:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by used to be jwoodget:
...Plus they just scrapped their freebie card.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can honestly say I'm happy about that.
My fiance never understood the concept of resubmitting the same card. I normally do the laundry and it would never fail, I'd always find a different card wedged in her pocket...drove me nuts.

I don't remember which location, but there was a SC that I went in to that had a card index holder next to the register. While I was in line I watched patrons place their order and search through the little file box to retrieve their card to be punched, then return it back in. I thought it was odd, even clever, but amusing.

Aurora
Mar 18th, 2003, 08:37 PM
Its true. The TH in Arnprior built a giant outdoor freezer to store the frozen "baked" donuts and they are not as good as the old fried ones. They might be healthier but life is too short to be healthy ALL the time. I miss the old taste. On a good note, I won a Raleigh Mountain Bike rolling up the rim,
Cheers,

(( p g ))
Mar 18th, 2003, 10:35 PM
Wow lots of feedback! That's interesting to hear that the doughnuts are being baked rather than fried. I wouldn't have a problem with this if it didn't result in a cheap product. By my way of thinking, a doughnut is a rare treat (not a daily staple), so I care relatively little about the nutritional benefits. I'm more interested in the yum factor.

Having said that, I suspect that the sudden "new Coke" approach to doughnutry (okay I made that word up, sue me!) has less to do with nutrition as it does with cutting costs. After all, it is far cheaper to mass produce the stuff from a plant in Kingston.

It all adds up to one big mistake. They're messing with a winning formula at at time when a well-financed competitor (i.e., Krispy Kreme) is poised to move into the Canadian market. Visit a Krispy Kreme location and you'll see right away about a dozen things that Tim Hortons is doing wrong in Canada. That's why I think they'll be mopping the floor with Hortons soon enough.

As for the coffee...well..I'm with the group who says the coffee is okay, not great. Nothing beats my home-brew coffee. But that's another story, for another time.

Okay...back to work...

MacGenius
Mar 18th, 2003, 10:43 PM
Well, I beg to differ on one contention. It seems their revenue now is based on the coffee, not the donuts.

While I don't hate coffee I can't understand the the attraction of Dead Timmy's java... All coffee tastes the smae to me. I think its the water not the java myself. What they HAVE improved of late are the croissants. They are MUCH better now.

While we're on this subject I must volunteer another observations and theory: Swiss Chalet (Swiss Pigeon as my family calls it).
Anyone else notice its a haven for the Geritol Brigade? I recently had to modify my theory as to why they are always frequented by the elderly. I used to think it was a fountain of youth, you eat there and it's supposed to keep you young. Now I've revised my theory. More sinister than I though....

* queue sinister music *

IT MAKES YOU OOOOLD!!!!!!!

(in a Soylent Green voice)

thirdeyevision
Mar 18th, 2003, 10:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patrick Gant:
Visit a Krispy Kreme location and you'll see right away about a dozen things that Tim Hortons is doing wrong in Canada. That's why I think they'll be mopping the floor with Hortons soon enough.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and their coffee's actually really good as opposed to the later.

MacDoc
Mar 18th, 2003, 11:21 PM
I can't stand Tim coffee unless laced with Bailey's but then I think all North American style coffee's nearest kin is dish water tongue.gif
Espresso based coffee deserves the name.
My picks are
my own - french pressed from fresh ground espresso beans, steamed foamed milk,a touch of Bailey's and Amarula, bittersweet chocolate shavings

Starbucks - Creme Brulee but with half the syrup ( way too sweet the way they do it )

Second Cup - Carmel Macchiatto - ditto on cutting the syrup.

Worst coffee - MacDonald's then anything that has been sitting more than a minute on a warmer - gets that ucky shade of grey :(
NO coffee should ever sit on a heater - a carafe is fine and even micro waving cold coffee can work but letting it sit on heat = disgusting.

Tim's in general I think works hard to offer good tasting products at very reasonable pries. I wince everytime I hit a Starbucks or 2nd Cup.
Tim's I can get a variety of decent food, some healthy some sinful and always good value and amazingly fast service. :eek:

Roland
Mar 18th, 2003, 11:37 PM
Tim Horton's sells doughnuts?

Geez... something to go with my extralarge cafe mocha...

VertiGoGo
Mar 18th, 2003, 11:38 PM
I also noticed that their donuts are not of the highest calibre anymore. :( I am not a heavy donut eater...so I only have one, once in a while...but I always went to Timmy's for my fix 'cuz they were the best. Now...I am not so sure. I find them dry and icky. And what the hell happened to their cherry cake TimBits?!? Their were my fave and now they are like eating pink wads of dirt.

As for coffee...it is yummy at the crack of dawn when you are hardly awake...on your way to work (double-double). As for regular coffee...nothing beats BRIDGEHEAD COFFEE!!! (http://www.bridgehead.ca) Organic, shade grown and fairly traded!!! Mmmmmmm...especially the Nicaraguan Light!!! And it's Canadian, eh!!!

MacGenius
Mar 18th, 2003, 11:55 PM
As I said before, I'm not much of a coffee drinker but I sure like a nice Capucino!!

Actually, the best coffee I've ever had was the Kenya blend from Second Cup. Thanks to MaxPower for introducing me to that. I'd have some in the house but my wife absolutely hates the smell of coffee so the closet I can get to it is in the Zehrs isle while she boots it out of there.

used to be jwoodget
Mar 19th, 2003, 12:16 AM
Thanks for the offer of support Dr.G. Very kind words, reciprocated. Peace and prosperity.

minnes
Mar 19th, 2003, 03:48 PM
I had to comment on this topic.
Tim Hortens Started in East Hamilton about 30 or so years ago and there are now about 150 Tims in Hamilton alone, add to that all the starbucks , second cups and independant places and you get about 500 coffee spots in town here.
Tims has good stuff except mediocre coffee, but is a nice spot to have lunch in, second cup is better for coffee but doesnt have that familier taste of Tims burnt coffe bean flavor.
Honestly , 150 Tims in Hamilton !!! Its hard to beleive, but it is. Welcome to the donut zone.
My Friend Rick and I went out to Kitchener to sample the Krispy Kreem wares and they taste great but they laced in fat and suagr, maybe twice a year for KK is , but no more.

In love and donuts,
regards
Mark

Dr.G.
Mar 19th, 2003, 04:02 PM
jwoodget, to your expressions of "Peace and prosperity", might I add "Peace and tranquility". I could have said "wake up and smell the coffee", but I always thought that this was a trite phrase. Sadly, these are not tranquil times.

Dr.G.
Mar 19th, 2003, 04:05 PM
All this week, every TH outlet in our province is selling a special jumbo freshly-baked chocolate chip cookie for $1, with all the proceeds going to the Badger Relief Fund. The promotion started on Monday, and thousands of these cookies are being sold. It's nice to see a national franchise remember to be a community citizen. TH has always supported sports activities here in NL, but this is a special service they are providing to people in need. Kudos to Tim Hortons!!!!! smile.gif

MaxPower
Mar 20th, 2003, 08:48 AM
I heard rumors why Timmy's is changing the doughnuts.

They're taking a beating from Krispy Kreme.

Those things are damn addicting! They put something in it that makes you crave it nightly. Very Tasty.

Coffee? I do prefer second Cup, but I usually pick up a cup of the old Tim's Mud. Plus I can Rrrroll up the rim to win. I usually get a play again, (although I did win the bike one year :D )But I just want a free coffee. Can't you understand that I need my Tim Horton's® Coffee???? Must get a refill now.

Fox
Mar 20th, 2003, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thirdeyevision:

I'm a fairly heavy coffee drinker and TH coffee ranks on the bottom of the list for me. I normally get an odd reaction but I prefer McDonald's coffee<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good grief; I have a friend who also prefers McDonald's coffee to Tim's. I thought she was crazy.

On the roll-up-the-rim contest, my big beef is that if you bring your own mug (the right thing to do to reduce waste!), you can't enter the contest without them giving you a cup. I complained about this in the hope that they would manufacture rims only for people like me.

Fox
Mar 20th, 2003, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by macdoc:
My picks are my own - french pressed from fresh ground espresso beans, steamed foamed milk,a touch of Bailey's and Amarula, bittersweet chocolate shavings
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Great! Next time I'm at your shop for an upgrade, I'll be expecting one of these!

The Great Waka
Mar 20th, 2003, 01:13 PM
I frequent my local TH's quite often and one new "improvement" REALLY bugs me. That is their chocolate "croiscants" now being, basically, the same as their danish! :mad: Why not call it a chocolate danish then?!? I'm paying the same money for half the product. Arg.

Also, I don't know if anyone noticed this, but look at the way the fritters and other large donut things are organised these days. My insider at TH's (manager) tells me that they are no longer allowed to put them in the trays in rows, and now must be in unorganizedly, since marketing reports have shown that people prefer the "tumbled" look. Riiiiight.....

Also, whats with the new donut boxes? I guess they are trying to copy KK or something. I miss the handles, now its just impratical to carry.

Oh well.

jeac5
Mar 21st, 2003, 06:42 PM
Had to put in my two cents. I'm not a big donut eater, but can plow my way through a box of timbits at a scary speed if they are mostly sour cream glazed. I swear, these actually seem more fresh a day later as the glaze continues to seep into the donut itself. Mmmmm! Of course, as is usually true with Tim's, consistency is well, hard to find. Sometimes, alas, there is just not enough glaze to go around. Anyway, I'm so/so about the coffee itself. It's really not that good, but is much cheaper than many of the alternatives, which I guess is part of the appeal. Being on the East Coast which truly is covered in Tim Horton stores, I think that many people think it is great coffee simply because they have never had great coffee. As far as cheap coffee goes, I prefer Robin's. At least, it usually tastes fairly good while Tim's is often just plain bitter.

Dr.G.
Mar 21st, 2003, 06:47 PM
jeac5, I'm glad you said that about the Timbits. My son is the same way, and I thought that he was crazy when he would let these Timbits "ferment".

jeac5
Mar 21st, 2003, 08:10 PM
Thanks Dr. G. It's good to know there are others like me out there. Mind you, it is just these glazed timbits to which this concept applies. Your basic sugared timbit, for example, becomes quite stale at a fairly rapid pace. I think someone should do a freshness study. Tax dollars have been squandered on less.

Dr.G.
Mar 21st, 2003, 08:15 PM
jeac5, yes, this is why I utilized the term "ferment" referring to the sour cream glazed Timbits. Personally, I think both of you should have your taste buds examined, but, to each his/her own. I love chopped chicken livers, and my son will leave the house if I make it, let alone eat it in front of him.

It seems strange talking about Timbits with all that is taking place in the world. Still, I get a bit frustrated at some of the bickering and name calling on the more relevant threads, that discussing Timbits is a far more civilized momentary respite, at least for me just now.

MACSPECTRUM
Mar 21st, 2003, 08:46 PM
fox typed:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by macdoc:
My picks are my own - french pressed from fresh ground espresso beans, steamed foamed milk,a touch of Bailey's and Amarula, bittersweet chocolate shavings
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great! Next time I'm at your shop for an upgrade, I'll be expecting one of these! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

david,
now you can put a new note on your macdoc website.
SAMPLE OUR GOURMET COFFEE BAR WHILE YOU WAIT - MOCHA-LICIOUS !!!
:D

jeac5
Mar 21st, 2003, 08:53 PM
Yes, I have been looking through some of the other threads and while many posts are interesting and informative, somehow I much prefer this evening to concentrate on the less relevant aspects of life. You're right also, people are getting a little shall we say, intolerant with one another. But then, I guess that is what war is all about. At the moment, I prefer to connect with another human being (even on the www) by discussing the little aspects of life that we can all relate to. And if timbits is it, then I'm all for it! ;)

Dr.G.
Mar 21st, 2003, 09:06 PM
Well said, jeac5, well said. I find that each night I go to the Monster Thread (aka "Dr.G's favorite commercial") and place a thought or two. I have a feeling very few, in any, are still reading the thread, but I find some comfort in sharing a kind word or two with any passerby that might wander onto the last page of the thread.

I like your area of Nova Scotia. I have been there three times in the past five years. The ferry from Newfoundland docks at North Sydney. The university where I currently teach (Memorial University of Newfoundland) and the faculty for whom I teach (the Faculty of Education) has a shared Master's of Technology in Education, with UCCB.

jeac5
Mar 21st, 2003, 09:29 PM
Very interesting Dr. G. and I thank you for your compliment regarding Cape Breton. I was curious to hear just what area of expertise you are teaching at Memorial and am delighted to hear that it is Education. I am a teacher who will likely leave this area for a job somewhere next September wherever they will have me. Being from Nfld, I am sure you are well used to people leaving for employment. I sure will miss the East Coast, though! In fact, I have never been to Nfld, something of which I am aware must be changed at the first opportunity.

Dr.G.
Mar 21st, 2003, 09:38 PM
jeac5 (a unique online name, I must say), actually, I came to Newfoundland and Labrador to teach here at MUN. I was born in New York City, and came to St.John's from Athens, Georgia, where I had just completed my Ph.D. at the University of Georgia. My area of specialization is literacy education, and I also specialize in the diagnosis and presciptive instruction of literacy learning disabilities. I currently teach 6 web courses in literacy education (two grad courses and four undergrad courses). In fact, these six courses make MUN the #1 university in Canada for online courses in literacy education, a fact of which I am most proud.

What is your area of teaching specialization? Are there no teaching jobs in Nova Scotia? If you have expertise in science, math, computer technology, French or special education, you should have no problem getting a job anywhere in Canada.

jeac5
Mar 21st, 2003, 10:04 PM
Unfortunately, I have none of the above at this time. I would really like to start as an Elementary classroom teacher, but this does require a move at this time. I would like to get a Master's in a few years time and literacy will be my area of focus, as much as possible. I would just like some good ol' classroom experience first. I didn't know that about Memorial and think I will check out your courses online.
You know, we have really blown the Tim Horton's saga out of the water! It is so interesting how these threads develop and I am having a lot of fun since finding ehmac. It sounds strange, but I'm meeting lots of nice people. Must go for this evening, but I will likely talk to you again. By the way, jeac5 is sort of a version of my dog's name. Jeannie C. (after the Stan Roger's song) If you are familiar with the song, is it any wonder she has an aversion to the water? Bye for now.

Dr.G.
Mar 21st, 2003, 10:10 PM
jeac5, yes, I am familiar with Stan Rogers. His death was a loss to Canadian music.

Check out www.mun.ca/educ (http://www.mun.ca/educ) for the MUN Fac. of Education website. I have had 13 students and teachers from Nova Scotia in my various web courses since 1997.

Paix, mon ami.

CubaMark
Mar 21st, 2003, 11:05 PM
Jeac5, welcome to EhMac. Nice to have another easterner in here. My sister lives in Sydney, and I spent a year working in Glace Bay back in '95 with a Canada World Youth exchange project with Jamaica.

And thanks for bringing up Stan Rogers. One helluva big loss to Canadian music, let me tell you. I was particularly heartened to hear of this effort to induct him into the Hall of Fame: http://www.geist.com/stanrogers/

I get all misty-eyed every time I hear "Field behind the Plow," "Make and Break Harbour" and "Harris and the Mare." There have been many imitators, but there is only one Stan.

(EDIT - add)

And, apart from "Northwest Passage," perhaps the most powerful song to hear in Stan's baritone is the Jeannie C. (http://stevebriggs.superb.net/stanrogers/songs/tjc-sng.html)

M.

(( p g ))
Mar 21st, 2003, 11:42 PM
Wow...I'm quite surprised at the feedback. This is as close as I have ever to come to having spawned a monster thread (mind you, not one that even comes close to Dr. G's!)

From the looks of things, I guess I'm in the minority in my complaint about Horton's. But get a load of this. The day after I posted my GantRant (TM) the Ottawa Citizen ran a story that talked about the shrinking size of Horton doughnuts.

Whomever that company has hired to handle media calls has certainly earned her keep this week. Witness the spin in the article (which I have attached below). According to the TH spokesperson, the issue isn't that Tim's has switched to making smaller, cheap-looking and lousy tasting dougnuts. Rather, it is a move to correct a mistake in which some sellers were making the doughnuts too big. I'd buy this line if it wasn't for the fact that they were_all_making the bigger product before.

--
Tim Hortons doughnuts too big
by Jennifer Campbell
The Ottawa Citizen
Wednesday, March 19, 2003

When it comes to Canada's sweet, round icons, does size matter? When the size is smaller, it probably does. Tim Hortons doughnut devotees may have noticed that in some locations, their favourite doughy desserts are slightly slimmer than they used to be. But never fear -- it's not a shrewd business move on the part of Canada's No. 1 coffee shop to get more dough for, well, less dough.

It turns out some of the shops had been playing fast and loose with the Tim Hortons mothership's doughnut-size decree. Some were being a little more generous than the chain would have liked. So Tim's head office sent out reminders that the stores must conform to the prescribed size to keep customers across the country satisfied that no one's getting bigger doughnuts than they are.

"To ensure all our customers are getting the same product, we've re-issued the specifications on the sizing of our products," explained Patti Jameson.

"The specifications have always been in place but they may not have been enforced across the chain," said Ms. Jameson, Tim Hortons vice-president of corporate communications. "Some of them, maybe, were getting a little more generous."

Asked whether the company had received any complaints about the changes, Ms. Jameson said: "We've had inquiries about doughnuts and muffins, too," admitting that customers weren't calling to complain the products had grown in size.

Some are complaining on the Internet. On Rate It All's Opinion Network, one self-professed "avid Tim's fan" said her local store's muffins are now "way too small" and the doughnuts have "majorly decreased in size."

Ms. Jameson wasn't keen on talking about another Internet-driven complaint that brings into doubt Tim Hortons' "always fresh" slogan: The company's move to frozen doughnuts. One writer, who claims to be a Tim Hortons worker, says the shop has started rolling out frozen doughnuts. In this particular location, the writer claims the store's fryer has been removed and replaced with a walk-in freezer. The worker says the doughnuts come frozen and undressed. Before serving them, each store must thaw them, and then apply the icing, sprinkles or filling.

Tim Hortons was tight-lipped about the alleged changes.

"We're doing tests on a number of products and issues," Ms. Jameson said. "We're just doing tests in specific areas. That's the extent of any of the things you may or may not have heard.

"That's what we do as part of staying at the leading edge of our industry. We're testing various new products. We don't disclose any information about those because they're just test."

Asked again if they were testing frozen products in certain stores, she said: "Yes, we are doing a number of different things -- some involve that type of process. That's just standard form for a company our size and of our stature."


Ms. Jameson refused to say how many stores were receiving the frozen product and said the testing was not Tim Hortons' way of responding to the arrival of Krispy Kreme on Canadian turf where the ubiquitous Tim's has enjoyed a virtual coffee and doughnut monopoly.

"We're very different than Krispy Kreme," she said. "We have customers who come to us at all hours of the day. We're number 1 for the breakfast segment and number 2, after McDonald's, for lunch."

Krispy Kreme, she said, is more of a specialty shop.

A survey of downtown Ottawa Tim Hortons customers showed they weren't too concerned about the possible change in doughnut and muffin size. Most said they went to Tim's primarily for the coffee. Those who occasionally eat the sweets hadn't noticed a change.
©*Copyright 2003*The Ottawa Citizen

Britnell
Mar 22nd, 2003, 02:37 AM
I absolutely detest McD's "coffee". It always tastes like burnt something to me.

When I was a university student, while studying for exams, I would often take a break at 3am just so I could walk to the local (in Hamilton's Westdale) Timmies. If you have never had a fresh, so hot you can barely eat it, donut, you are missing a wonderful donut experience. For years after I left Hamilton, I just could not bring myself to eat a donut that had been on the shelf for more than an hour.

MacNutt
Mar 22nd, 2003, 02:52 AM
No Tim Hortons on this island. No donut shops at all, for that matter. They seem to be less popular out here on the ultra health conscious West Coast.

Too bad.

As for coffee....I drank a cup a few years back when I needed to stay awake while driving long-distance.

But I sure wouldn't make a habit of it. :eek: :cool:

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 08:51 AM
Macnutt, I guess the day you drink the Canadian average for coffee consumption shall be henceforth called "The Night of the Flying Monkies".

Mississauga
Mar 22nd, 2003, 11:37 AM
Great thread, Patrick!

My philosophy on the topic is we, the consumers, are being slowly weaned off good food in favour of more profitable food by many food manufacturers. Taste and nutrition are the last thing on the mind of the giant fast food kings. The more we accept and continue purchasing this "garbage', the worse it will get. Soylent Green, anyone?

Regarding Tim Horton's; although I don't buy/eat their doughnuts, I do pass through the drive-thru for a coffee each weekday morning. The following is a little (sarcastic, at best) excerpt from a currently defunct personal web site I once maintained.

"WARNING: A new affliction has been discovered in some of our fellow drivers. I like to call it DRIVE-THRUBITIS. The cause of this debilitating injury is the lack of a driver's ability to judge the size or footprint of their respective vehicles. You can spot them at any time as they draw closer to the "pay" window of their favourite drive-thru coffee shop or fast food restaurant. Upon arrival at the "pay" window, they find themselves inexplicably distanced from their presumed target; likely more than an arms reach to the side and a wrenching arm-swing too far ahead. Their attempt to reach the server results in a number of painful injuries; tendons, muscles and ligaments of the outstretched limb are torn asunder; the armpit and ribcage on the left side are brutally crushed against the door and window frame; in an effort to make eye contact with the server, the wrenching twist of the neck and shoulders cause the driver to receive severe damage to the upper vertebrae, along with undue abrasions from the seat-belt - if they even wear one!

And one more pet peeve about the cursed coffee shop drive-thru; does the establishment HAVE to offer a full menu to morning "coffee grabbers"? Have you ever been stuck behind some S.O.B. ordering breakfast for 12 at the drive-thru? Park the car and get your lazy arse into the shop for your order!!! Some of us would like to get to work before 10:00!

Next time you find yourself in the drive-thru lineup, watch the drivers ahead. I can almost guarantee you will discover at least one of these idiots on your next excursion!"

;) ;) ;)

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 01:24 PM
Patrick, two comments re your statement that "Wow...I'm quite surprised at the feedback. This is as close as I have ever to come
to having spawned a monster thread (mind you, not one that even comes close to Dr. G's!)".

Firstly, I made the mistake when I first came to St.John's back in 1977 by saying, "I never heard of Tim Horton's. Isn't he a hockey player?" Big mistake here in St.John's, where attendance at the local TH's exceeds movie attendance and nearly matches the attendance at the various churches in NL.

Secondly, the Monster Thread is not my thread. It has grown from humble origins (i.e., the Sprint doxie commercial), and has taken on a life of it's own. Granted, for much of the thread these past couple of weeks, I have utilized it to wish any and all peace and a gentle "good night". However, the Monster Thread is like freedom and liberty -- such things cannot be physically touched, but you know when it's there, and you know when it has been ignored or taken away. Still, in the final analysis, the Monster Thread belongs to no one person, and is freely shared by all who wish a momentary respite from all that is taking place in the world that day.

Thanks for starting a uniquely Canadian thread. Paix.

jeac5
Mar 22nd, 2003, 03:32 PM
Hey CubaMark, thanks for the welcome to ehmac. That's sort of what I mean when I referred to people being nice in here, when they're not taking shots at each other that is. I have lived in Halifax myself for a number of years and miss it quite a lot! It's a great place to live. I completely agree with you about Stan Rogers. He is certainly missed by many. Jeannie C. was a song that struck me as a great dog name as I drove to NB to pick up my mutt 5 years ago. She goes mostly by Weannie these days, but it's true, she completely avoids water deeper than she can walk in. As soon as her feet leave the bottom, she is out of there. My fault, I guess. Oh well! redface.gif

Dr.G.
Mar 22nd, 2003, 03:40 PM
jeac5, we took two of our dogs with us to Nova Scotia when we rented a house on the shoreline of Port Joli. To my amazement, Rootie, who is a standard wirehaired dachshund, swam. Rags, who is part spanniel, is a natural swimmer. However, doxies are natural diggers. Still, he swam around meter deep water as the tide came in each afternoon. The waters around Newfoundland are really too cold to swim in by man or beast, but your Nova Scotia waters were mild and comfortable.

I agree with your comments about CubaMark. He was one of the first persons to greet me here in ehMacLand.

Jadawin
Jun 21st, 2005, 02:24 PM
Wel, I was looking for a way to test if a dish was microwave-ready, and I came across this thread. :) Couldn't bear to see it die so soon, my apologies if it's been taken up somewhere else.

Krispy Kreme has been defeated in Ontario, yay! Now to get rid of that icky Starbucks in downtown Windsor.

Unfortunately, the Timmy doughnuts are still baked and frozen and shipped around. I loved the PR sling on it, but from my understanding, it was no experiment, but a done deal. Very sad.

And hey, I'd rather see a populace with an addiction for coffee and fattening foods, reflected in their socialization habits, than one with an addiction for cigarettes and alcohol.

mazirion
Jun 21st, 2005, 05:40 PM
I think for the most part, Tim Horton's popularity is its convenience. They flood the market with shops and stay open 24hrs a day AND have drive-through's. There is yet another Tim's being built in Belleville.

I agree with most of the posters that their coffee is ho-hum. Tastes rather plain & watered down. I also agree with the line-ups at the drive through - it should just be for coffee & a few doughnuts! I am always stuck behind some jerk buying lunch!

I rarely have doughnuts these days, but picked up an Apple Fritter the other day. It was smallish and rather dry. Not like they used to be!

There are a couple bit-players in the coffee wars out here besides the multitude of Tim's and the one Starbucks. I like Tim's for a half-decent lunch, but Starbucks for coffee. I buy Starbucks Espresso beans for home all the time.

If I want a quick lunch, Tim's is it. Their sandwiches are great. Coffee though is best at Starbucks, or here at home - espresso or cappuccino? The real thing.

I had to laugh... a few years ago, Tim's started to advertize about their cappuccino coming soon. Wow I thought, but drats... I am heading to Goose Bay Labrador for a few months. I'll have to wait until I get back. I get up to Goose Bay and everyone there has cappuccino machines! Yummy, until I tried one - it was a thick sugar concoction. I took a sip or two and dumped the rest - awful stuff that was. I return from Labrador and see what Tim's has - the same crap! sheesh I'll stick to my home made cappuccino with only water & milk added!

Wolfshead
Jun 21st, 2005, 06:24 PM
Used to be Jwoodget: You've obviously touched a nerve with this topic! I'm more interested in your citizenship application. I just got my citizenship last year and I'd be interested to see how your application goes. Particularly whether you'll be asked to give your fingerprints to the RCMP (as I was).

Cameo
Jun 21st, 2005, 07:02 PM
My biggest complaint with Timmies - and it isn't just timmies - is that they need to train their people to listen to what the customer is asking for. I can be as explicit as I want and still end up not getting what I asked for.

SINC
Jun 21st, 2005, 07:24 PM
I had never been to a Timmies until today when I had to meet a reader there at her suggestion. Since I had been watching the TV ad with that guy laying in a sand trap with an Ice Cap, I elected to try a medium on this hot day. That was at 1:30 and three hours later I still have a caffeine induced headache.

That was my first and last trip to a TH. The local cafe is my preference.

:)

Sakurina
Jun 21st, 2005, 07:38 PM
Tim Hortons's donuts are good but I find they're too small now compared to 2/3 years ago, so we switched to Dunkin Donuts. Low and behold, months after we did, a Dunkin Dounts place opened only a few minutes away from our house.

They're big, they're fattening, and they're great!

Dr.G.
Jun 21st, 2005, 09:14 PM
I still want to know what a "double double" is in Tim Horton's.

talonracer
Jun 21st, 2005, 09:15 PM
The boxes at TH are terrible now! I bought a dozen for the office a little while ago, and had my hand under it while the other hand opened the door. The box collapsed and would have folded in half if I hadn't caught it quickly!

Terrible, and yes, the donuts are tooo small.

Don't get me started on their "coffee". I've tried it twice and never been able to finish a cup.

The Doug
Jun 21st, 2005, 09:34 PM
I still want to know what a "double double" is in Tim Horton's.

Two cream, two sugar.

Yuck.

Dr.G.
Jun 21st, 2005, 10:22 PM
Yuck is right. I put a bit of skim milk in my coffee to cool it down, and have never put sugar into coffee.

DJM
Jun 21st, 2005, 11:14 PM
Tim Hortons is the "Microsoft" of the doughnut/coffee shop world....way too popular when there is other doughnut/coffee shops out there that are better. It boggles my mind at the lineups at Tim Hortons all day long where I live. Either really good brain washing.... um.... i mean marketing or something addictive in the coffee. Gotta go, gonna go get a cup of...................hmmmm, interesting ;)

TroutMaskReplica
Jun 21st, 2005, 11:18 PM
My biggest complaint with Timmies - and it isn't just timmies - is that they need to train their people to listen to what the customer is asking for. I can be as explicit as I want and still end up not getting what I asked for.

amen.

i agree with the comment about starbucks coffee. now if only starbucks had a drive through ...

teeterboy3
Jun 21st, 2005, 11:36 PM
See the thing is Tim Hortons sucks anyway…
The coffee… bum juice filtered through sweat socks.

I am sorry but I have to say I prefer Starbucks and their O.A.C. $35 cup of coffee-cino's

Oh and Timmy's Donuts… they suck too.


Let the flames begin…

--
A Coffee Snob :)

_Outcast_
Jun 22nd, 2005, 12:07 AM
See the thing is Tim Hortons sucks anyway…
The coffee… bum juice filtered through sweat socks.

I am sorry but I have to say I prefer Starbucks and their O.A.C. $35 cup of coffee-cino's

Oh and Timmy's Donuts… they suck too.


Let the flames begin…

--
A Coffee Snob :)

Starbucks? You're kidding, right?

Overpriced rubbish. Every cup of coffee I've had at Starbucks has been burnt. I know, they call it "full-flavoured dark roast" but it tastes like it's been left on the burner way too long.

And what was wrong with the sizes small, medium, and large? They have to use these stupid names for their cup sizes just to be different. What a bunch of pretentious wankers.

Tim's may not be the best coffe but at least it tastes like coffee. I do get the odd bad one from them but then I just insist that they replace it. Never really been a problem.

What has been a problem lately is that you pay for a large and they give you a medium in a large cup. Then, depending which Tim's you are at, they get snooty when you insist on getting full measure for your $1.40.

Jerry

MacDoc
Jun 22nd, 2005, 12:28 AM
Course there is 600 mg of caffeine in Timmie's regular cup.
http://sctest.cse.ucsc.edu/kenb/gif/bill_the_cat.gif

Going to Starbucks for a regular coffee..........hmmmmm. :confused: How people can drink the over caffeinated dishwater that passes for "coffee" is beyond me.

Latte, espresso, capuccino......THAT's coffee.......and contray to popluar belief not much caffeine.

I DO admit to a passion for sour creme glazed at Tims but it's the sandwiches that blew them by MacDs. Good food and excellent value.

jicon
Jun 22nd, 2005, 12:39 AM
Of all the rediculous things to do, I saw a van this past weekend, out in a parking lot covered in homemade signs with the driver screaming for people to come buy some Krispy Kreme donuts. The guy probably drove up from Washington State convinced he could make a pretty penny. I've never tried one, but I'll venture that they are likely very fattening.

Tim Hortons doesn't interest me either. I think 1/6th of Nova Scotia's landfills are covered in Tim Horton's cups, because they don't biodegrade easily, and aren't recyclable. The offerings are mediocre at best, and around here anyway, you know the poor saps making coffee at 5AM for minimum wage should have a much better job elsewhere.

MacDoc
Jun 22nd, 2005, 12:43 AM
Well NOW I know why I like Timmy's sour creme glazed :eek:

According to the nutritional information chart provided by Krispy Kreme (the term "nutritional information" is pretty funny, don't you think?), a glazed sour cream doughnut has 280 calories, 15 grams of fat, 23 grams of sugar, and 2.2 grams of protein (Ha! Protein! Like anyone cares!!) Odd. No addictive substances listed.

In comparison, the Tim Hortons Glazed Sour Cream Glazed has 318 calories, 19 grams of fat. That surprised me; I had half-figured that Krispy Kreme products must be loaded with more fat and sugar to have such incredible appeal. Not that either is a candidate for a health-conscious award, mind you

Carex
Jun 22nd, 2005, 01:28 AM
About 5 years ago, I was amazed at the number of Tim Hortons I encountered in New Brunswick. It was over the top. You would see 3 out of 4 street corners with Tim Hortons. For years, the city of Vancouver didn't have Tim Hortons. They may have some now, I'm not sure. Any Vancouverites confirm this?

Not a fan of the coffee or the donuts.

The same invasion seems to be happening out here though. Everywhere you look, new Tim Hortons. The old timers love it.

Personally I find their sandwiches very bland and their soups as well.

And we have a Starbucks with a drive through.

Cameo
Jun 22nd, 2005, 08:08 AM
In Cambridge - which really is not very big - has 14 Timmies last time I counted.
You can drive around the entire city in less than an hour. I don't drink coffee and I prefer Williams to Timmies. I walk every night and have the timmies on my route trained - don't have to say a word - my tea is started as soon as they see me coming. The one my son likes to stop at going to work in the mornings has their act together - you have your coffee and tea ready for you before you get your money out of your pocket.

Most of them need to train their employees to listen to what the customer is asking for though - really frustrating to be explicit about what you want and down the road take a gulp and YUCK! I know the speakers for the drive thru probably aren't great but if you are not sure what was requested then ask!!!

Sakurina
Jun 22nd, 2005, 11:28 AM
Starbucks's regular coffee probably isn't regular coffee. Why? They have a history of not being truthful in their product description. Their apple cider is really juice, and their hot cocoa is really coffee with lots of vanilla. :/

Paul O'Keefe
Jun 22nd, 2005, 11:34 AM
I DO admit to a passion for sour creme glazed at Tims

Now you're talking! I very much enjoy those.

When I lived in Dartmouth, I could walk more then 3 blocks in any direction without hitting a Tim Hortons. So, I was a captive market... and I went alot. Only for donuts and sometimes the odd tea.

Nowadays I hardly ever go. I don't know why. Maybe I got sick of donuts.

MacDoc
Jun 22nd, 2005, 11:50 AM
I'm always amazed at the lineups at the drive through in the morning in the one nearest to the 403. ALWAYS 30-40 cars and they relaly rool people through.

After reading about the calory/fat count on the sour creme I'll be indulging far less tho it's been down ever since they ruined the Apple fritter. How can you have a "baked" fritter? :eek:

Personally I think it's a good company and if we are fast food society they do a better job than most. :clap:

But yeah they are EVERYWHERE. They are also wise franchisors - one of the keys to their success. They do not allow speculation on their franchises and so keep their good operators in place.
Swiss Chalet/Harvey's is another good franchise for similar reasons.
Anyone worked there???

Just curious.

talonracer
Jun 22nd, 2005, 01:54 PM
There's rather a large amount of Timmy's in Calgary. In fact, one is only a minute walk from the office.

I walked by this morn and ohhhh, the donuts were a-callin me, but I resisted. Now I'm having a bottle of water and an apple. Yay healthy. :(

MacDoc
Jun 22nd, 2005, 02:05 PM
What do people think abut a "sin" tax on unhealthy foods ala cigarettes, booze etc

Forget about how to determine which is which - just the concept?????

thejst
Jun 22nd, 2005, 02:13 PM
Given the obesity epidemic, a sin tax on junk food is a credible idea, and would prompt the possible outcomes:

1] more falsification by companies about the ingredients and preparation of their products.
2] an increased interest in home ice cream machines
3] penalizing these foods only reinforces their desirability. Sales will skyrocket.

MacDoc
Jun 22nd, 2005, 02:24 PM
Epidemic.......maybe not

http://www.sciam.com/media/inline/000E5065-2345-128A-9E1583414B7F0000_1.jpg

NUTRITION AND HEALTH

Obesity: An Overblown Epidemic?
A growing number of dissenting researchers accuse government and medical authorities--as well as the media--of misleading the public about the health consequences of rising body weights
By W. Wayt Gibbs

Could it be that excess fat is not, by itself, a serious health risk for the vast majority of people who are overweight or obese--categories that in the U.S. include about six of every 10 adults? Is it possible that urging the overweight or mildly obese to cut calories and lose weight may actually do more harm than good? complete article 6 pages ( http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=000E5065-2345-128A-9E1583414B7F0000 )

•••••

Random tests with BIG fines will keep them in line.

It'e one thing if people create their own "indulgences" quite another if promoted by a corporation.

No harm in making it a "treat" - put the tax into supporting local food and organic farming initiatives. The farmers could surely use it.

Carex
Jun 22nd, 2005, 03:15 PM
Macdoc, that has got to be a fake picture!!

Sin tax would be a good idea except it would be a nightmare to put in place. What about all of those middle of the road foods that are kinda sorta good for you? Where would you put them? Calorie limit? Fat limit? Portion limit? Acckkk.

Also you would make life hard on low income folks that are proportionally (no pun intended) more likely to buy these foods. That is part of the addiction problem; aside from the convenience, they are quite frequently cheaper to buy than foods that are good for you.

CN
Jun 22nd, 2005, 03:20 PM
I saw that picture in a recent issue of Scientific American, I couldn't find anything that said it was digitally enhanced, so it might be real...looks like the guy is pregnant, its weird that his arms are not flabbier though, because he looks to be very overweight.

Paul O'Keefe
Jun 22nd, 2005, 03:43 PM
It looks like Cory from The Trailer Park Boys.

Macified
Jun 22nd, 2005, 04:46 PM
The guy in the photo doesn't appear "fat" so much as totally out of shape. I am not a doctor, dietician or part of the health establishment but as far as I can see, that guy doesn't have a large excess of fat over his actual stomach. He does appear to have lost all muscle tone in his abdominals and has overindulged with his eating habits allowing his stomach to expand well beyond the normal bounds. It's why you don't see layers of flab on his arms. It's really not that uncommon unfortunately. With a decent diet and good excercise regime this guy could tone up pretty well. Probably wouldn't loose a tonne of weight since he isn't carrying a tonne of fat tissue.

He really should lay off the beignes though.

MacDoc
Jun 22nd, 2005, 05:08 PM
If it's fake then SciAm faked it.........unlikely.

Carex........ no question tough BUT some are obvious and already get hit with extra tax.
It's more a guiding to better food choices through wallet hits.

I see change already- the Wendy's fruit snack with Yogurt is very tasty BUT $$ - if it was a closer choice with fries versus fruit then SOME more will go fruit and the others kick in a tad more taxes.

There is already a PST hit on some foods.

( BTW I'm not talking grocery here tho a hit on pop would not hurt )

Some chains are doing it voluntarily and the move away from transfats is laudable.

Re-jigging the incentives would be the goal - not micro managing.

Personally I think the long term key is more exercise and weaned off the car and THAT is an immense undertaking that requires a very strong leadership and vision.
Paris and Tokyo are "there" already in terms of livable without car urban centres.

A transition aspect will be more bike lanes etc but with Canada's weather there is a limit.
We need livable well designed "villages" and that will require lots of change.

Hey S France as been in habited for some 35,000 years. We just gotta do it different.

I'd say foods are improving in "healthy" snacks. Exercise........:(

marrmoo
Jun 22nd, 2005, 05:36 PM
It looks like Cory from The Trailer Park Boys.

That would be Randy from the Trailer Park Boys.

Lawrence
Jun 22nd, 2005, 06:17 PM
Timothy's coffee is my favourite coffee in the morning,
No one else makes a "Noisette" that tastes as nice as theirs.

Occasionally I'll drink a "Continental" at home, Otherwise it'll be "Espresso" by
Van Houtte for my morning coffee before I leave for work and my "Noisette" on the way.

Funny thing...
Tim Horton is buried at the Cemetery I work at and yet there are no "Tim Horton"
coffee shops to be found in the area.

skdesign98
Jun 22nd, 2005, 07:59 PM
As far as I'm concerned the Donuts at Tim's have sucked for years now. The Coffee on the other hand is great! Tim's used to make great donuts but that's used to ... such is not the case anymore. There apple fritters used to be the best but now I find them to taste just like a big blob of grease (hey isn't that what donuts are anyways). I must say Tim's bagels are good except when they slop tonnes of butter on them. As far as size goes they definitely have gone the skimpy route. But Alas the Coffee is A1. Nothing like it!!

talonracer
Jun 22nd, 2005, 08:05 PM
"Noisette"

???

Carex
Jun 22nd, 2005, 09:07 PM
Personally I think the long term key is more exercise and weaned off the car and THAT is an immense undertaking that requires a very strong leadership and vision.
Yes, it will be interesting to see if that ever even begins to happen. If you are in shape, the recommendation is 30 minutes a day. If you are out of shape and trying to lose weight, it is more like 90!! Were does the average sloth find 90 minutes to exercise. Even those considered 'in shape' suffer from sedentary jobs. If you run alot recreationally but still spend 2 hours a day in the car and 8 hours at a desk it probably isn't that good for you either.

The photo is likely of a guy that doesn't carry a lot of subcutaneous fat and a big big portion of belly fat, which is the real bad stuff.

Paul O'Keefe
Jun 22nd, 2005, 11:16 PM
That would be Randy from the Trailer Park Boys.

My mistake.

Wolfshead
Jun 23rd, 2005, 11:18 AM
I think you're right, Carex. When I think about the diet my immediate forebears (sp?) consumed they should all have weighed about 300 lbs. Heavy on the animal fats and potatoes. None of them were fat, none of them exercised. They did, however, incredibly hard manual labour to burn off all those calories. As you say, it's difficult for most of us to devote 90 mins or so to exercise. In the "good old days" it just seemed to happen naturally.