: A New Threat!


MacNutt
Oct 25th, 2002, 02:41 AM
I think that we have beaten to death the thread that was, unfortunately titled.... "Gordon Campbell in the Kitchen".

So I am starting this new subject for anyone who is intererested....

It will deal with the following subject:

IS SADDAM A THREAT, OR NOT?"

What do YOU think?

This week, the CBC aired a documentary on the "Fifth Estate" that dealt with the possibility of biological warfare using a "weaponised" version of smallpox.

This is a very SCARY thought, indeed!
As far as I know...the CBC is Not an organ of the US government. It is CERTAINLY NOT some sort of a shill for the CIA......

The CBC documentary exposed....in great detail...how the old Soviet Union had developed a strain of smallpox (called India one) that was totally vacccine resistant.

IF released, it would would spread through almost any population with alarming rapidity. The CBC also interviewed several Russian experts who confirmed that the altered virus was handed out to no less than SEVENTEEN countries. Including North Korea and Iraq.

The CBC "Fifth Estate" documentary then went on to document how numerous UN-sanctioned weapons inspectors had found "suspiciuous" factories in most of these countries. Factories that were obviously developing biological weapons. Including smallpox.

The producers of the CBC documentary pointed out that, although smallpox was supposedly eradicated in the early eighties, Iraqi soldiers were STILL being innnoculated for smallpox as recently as 1994.

I wonder why this was being done?

You don't suppose that Saddam has a biological attack in mind, do you?

VERY interested in everyone's thoughts on this subject. Feel free to say whatever you think. Speak up! No idea...whatever it's source or basis...is unwelcome! Honest!

robert
Oct 25th, 2002, 11:14 AM
Well, I think we are entering another era of
"fear so and so" . Humanity is not at all comfortable with peace and tranquility.
Except those few who live on small islands
in say the western part of Canada.
The cold war is over and time for a new menace.
Its the medias job to report news, so if there isn't anything happening, start something.
I highly recommend watching "wag the dog" as to gain a new perspective on politics and the media.
Robert :rolleyes:

MacDaddy
Oct 25th, 2002, 11:48 AM
Saddam should have been blown up many times before, but I do not think it will ever happen.
Without War, the Gov. can't really "show" that they are trying to protect the country, plus, think of all the money the Gov. gets for fighting these "battles"
Without peiople like Saddam and Bin Laden, they would lose their funding for the Military, why do you think they never do anything but try and "Talk it out"
How long has Saddam been a threat? Friggen YEARS, and after all the signing of the treaties and crap, he still does stuff, gathering weapons and crap.
You actually think that the Government will erradicate these people?
I don't, it's all a bunch of crap.

used to be jwoodget
Oct 25th, 2002, 02:33 PM
Err.. what's the point of Iraqi troop vaccination against a vaccine-resistant strain of smallpox? Let's just hope that any idiot scientist willing to participate in such programs is also dumb enough to infect his/herself (and maybe Saddam too). It's non-trivial to produce large quanties of effective biologicals and it's also difficult to distribute (despite the claims and fictional scenarios).

Isn't fear the terrorists main form of ammunition? Kill 10, petrify millions. Sure, there are lot's of possibilities for mass destruction and death. It's a dangerous world we live in. The problem is that in such a tinderbox, it doesn't really matter who lights the first incendiary, the consequences will be the same. Time to watch "13 Days" again people. So close. So very close. Click.

SpanishJoe
Oct 25th, 2002, 06:39 PM
Blah. Scary stuff for Halloween.

I feel that Saddam is a threat to his own people. Saddam is a threat to neighboring countries. But should America stay initiate a first strike against Iraq when there are admittedly bigger "evildoer" targets, like North Korea (nuclear weapons and medium-range missle capabilities) and Indonesia (worsening militant Islamism). What's so important about Iraq, other than it being a great oil source? Is it that Iraq isn't a "true democracy"? Neither is Saudi Arabia (where most of the 911 terrorists came from), Pakistan (military coup), North Vietnam, or a whole mess of oil-and-resource-poor countries. I'm confused as to why the elimination of Saddam is so important to America, other than he makes such a good bogeyman.

I don't think Iraq is being used to fuel the American Millitary-Industrial complex, but that's got to be a factor. Is it all about the oil? Maybe. Is it about nuclear proliferation? I doubt it, since the US barely raised an eyebrow to other somewhat-unstable nuclear-capable countries such as Israel, Pakistan, India and a host of breakaway Soviet states.

One thing I do know is that the US is scaling up for something big, misinformed and wrong. They see it as another Cuban Missle crisis, but even that was yet another example of churlish American posturing and bravado, since the US had nuclear missles in NATO countries such as Turkey first, which was in much more of a "first strike" position than Cuba. Not to mention that the US was regularly flying U2s into the USSR in blatant cowboy fashion. Could you imagine what would have happened if a Soviet spyplane did the same in the 60's, and the US managed to shoot down two of them, and capture one of the pilots? Can you say "pave Moscow"? Yet, somehow, the USSR was the Evil Empire.

Of course, we can stand behind our little border and try to maintain some sort of neutrality. However, Canada does have a hand in all of this Middle-East-Islamic-Psychopath mess. We buy oil. We drive cars. Most of our shoes have "Made in Indonesia" written on the tongues. We have Wal-Mart. We send Team Canada into places listed on Amnesty International's top ten nasty countries to drum up cheap labor. We inadvertently helped India and Pakistan rattle nuclear weapons at each other with the CANDU program. We sometimes play a negative role on the world stage, even though we believe that we're the innocent blue-helmeted puritans of the free world. We may not be a direct target of Islamic-fundemantalist-sponsored terrorism, but it wouldn't take much be seen as America's little brother.

What truly frightens me is that Canada has a history of being coerced by America to be their sacrifical lambs when it comes to armageddon scenarios, and we've never said a peep about it. For example, the DEW line and NORAD, both being lauded as great cooperative achievements between our countries, would have been utterly catastophic to Canadians. As the thermonuclear-tipped ICBMs and loaded USSR bombers come over the North pole, where do you think the wounded missles would come raining down? When we got talked out of the Arrow program, they were supposed to be replaced with "Inexpensive" BOMARC missles (which turned out to be MUCH more expensive that the Arrow, but that's a whole other rant). Problem is, to be effective, the BOMARCs were nuclear-tipped. Luckily, they were never really implemented, bu with the US's renewed interest in Star Wars, the nuclear rain scenario starts all over again. Sure, in a Russian strike, LA and New York would be untouched, but all of Canada would look like Sudbury in the 50's. Can you imagine Question Period in the Commons populated by horribly mutated CHUDs? That's how the US sees us - as a giant radioactive buffer zone. Don't forget - the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons in anger is right next to us. I guess we shouldn't **** them off.

The Americans has a long history of rash actions followed by deadly consequences. The two year embargo of Japan and their "accidental" sinking of a Japanese sub in 1941 preceded the bombing of Pearl Harbor, which wasn't an invasion so much as a retaliatory strike. The US's half-assed attempts toward "liberating" countries such as Vietnam, Nicaragua, Afghanistan and Somalia are well documented. There seems to be a pattern here... the US identifies a "threat", tries to fix it using any means necessary, and then turns it's back on it when it seems to be "too much trouble". It's that childish lack of follow-through that has led us to our current crisis.

In a word - the US acts both selfishly and very recklessly on the world stage. It sees itself as the "shining light" of the world, always performing in the best interests of humanity at large, just as long as they see, act and believe exactly like they do. And isn't that a form of radical fundamentalism? My way, or the highway?

I hope for the best. I hope Canada keeps it's head out as much as it can, but you know what happens when you get in bed with an elephant wearing a big texas cowboy hat.

-SJ.

coyote
Oct 25th, 2002, 08:17 PM
Take a read of the current National Geographic. There's an excellent article on weapons of mass destruction.

Kirtland
Oct 25th, 2002, 08:44 PM
George Bush has more weapons of mass destruction than anybody. As time goes on I fear Bush more than Saddam. "He is drunk on power, he is drunk on arrogance, someone should tell him to quit driving." I heard it stated that a five year occupation and war with Iraq would cost 250 billion dollars. Can you imagine what good could be done to this world with $250 billion.

MacNutt
Oct 26th, 2002, 09:34 PM
Well.....I tossed this new subject out here because I knew I was going to be away for a couple of days and I thought that it would be good to see what sort of a reaction all of you had....without me running interference on each post.

Very interesting replies!

I especially liked Spanish Joe's detailed, and very well-informed, post. Made me think a bit......

To Jwoodget: One would have to assume that Saddam is having his soldiers innoculated with a vaccine made from the very same strain of smallpox that was given to him by the Soviets (as noted in the CBC Fifth Estate article). That strain is resistant to all existing vaccines that we have in the western world because it is based on a particularly virulent strain collected in India, by Soviet researchers, while on a mission to eradicate smallpox.

Or so we were led to believe.

Watch the Fifth Estate episode for more detail on this. I'll try to look up a link a little later and post it here, if anyone's interested.

On fearmongering:

I am particularly opposed to this reprehesible practice....and I hope what I have pointed out here will not be taken as such. This is, to my way of thinking, a pivotal moment in history as we are all debating what to do about Saddam. There are a LOT of people who favor just leaving him alone and hoping the problem will go away. I started this subject because I honestly believe that is NOT an option, and I wanted to bring everyones attention to the very real possibility of him unleashing something truly horrible upon us all. Soon.

He must be stopped.

Anyone got any other thoughts on this?