: Is this the new Mac Pro?


CubaMark
May 15th, 2019, 12:56 PM
(FYI, AppleInsider doesn't think so (https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/05/13/anticipation-over-apples-new-modular-mac-pro-mounts-as-first-phony-renderings-hit-the-web)....)

Alleged Leaked Internal Apple Document Shows Upcoming Mac Pro 7.1 Refresh, Codenamed Phoenix (https://www.techeblog.com/apple-mac-pro-phoenix-leak/)

https://media.techeblog.com/images/apple-mac-pro-phoenix-leak.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5Ge9uhE.jpg

Here’s an alleged image of the upcoming Mac Pro 7.1 refresh from an internal Apple presentation slide. Labeled “Mac Pro 7.1” and codenamed “Phoenix,” it shows a square design that measures in at 7.7 x 11.55 x 11.55 inches, comes equipped with an Intel Xeon W Cascade Lake-X processor, an Apple T2 security chip, an “Apple X2 Accelerator,” AMD Firepro-X memory, as well as DD45 SO-DIMM memory. Will this be the hardware shown at WWDC 2019? You’ll have to tune in on June 3rd. Read more to see the full slide.

“As far as other specifications, the Mac Pro is said to come with eight Thunderbolt 3 ports with ‘Thunderbolt 4’ compatibility, two HDMI 2.1 ports and support for 10-gigabit Ethernet and Bluetooth 5.1. The new Mac Pro is also expected to adopt a stackable module system. The only required module would be the “brain,” which will likely contain the logic board and other critical components. Everything else, such as additional storage, memory and upgraded GPUs, could be addable in optional modules,” reports iDropNews.

(iDropNews (https://www.idropnews.com/rumors/this-might-be-our-first-look-at-apples-new-mac-pro-but-is-it-legit/105883/) via Techeblog (https://www.techeblog.com/apple-mac-pro-phoenix-leak/))

wonderings
May 15th, 2019, 02:16 PM
based on those size specs that is pretty small, guess no room for more then 2 hard drives? Going to be pretty tight inside if you have 2 GPU's in there plus RAM and hard drive. OR is Apple again going for external storage and going to make a similar mistake as the garbage can Mac Pro?

Bring back the G5 tower again, that still looks fantastic, super easy to work on/in, lots of room and wonderfully well thought out. Is Apple just to full of themselves now to think they need to constantly re-invent the wheel? With no visionary leading the company I have little faith with the current leadership.

That screen on the other hand looks amazing from a visual stand point. Apple really needs to refresh the iMac to seriously slim down that bevel.

eMacMan
May 15th, 2019, 04:26 PM
Best guess is Apple assumes everyone will be using SSD drives exclusively.

Agreed that an expanded mini is not what many of us are looking for.

I consider the T2 chip a negative, but am guessing we won't be given a choice.

wonderings
May 15th, 2019, 04:43 PM
Best guess is Apple assumes everyone will be using SSD drives exclusively.

Agreed that an expanded mini is not what many of us are looking for.

I consider the T2 chip a negative, but am guessing we won't be given a choice.

Good point, not sure why I did not think of SSD. I know I have switched over my personal PC to SSD and my iMac 5K has a 1tb flash drive and MacBook Pro has 512 gig flash. I do believe it is the future as it makes a HUGE difference all across the board.

I guess if it has room for 2 GPU's, RAM and 4 or 5 bays for SSD it would not be all that bad. Not sure how much of the pro community has embraced SSD for storage.

robert
May 15th, 2019, 05:52 PM
don't forget the 8 T-bolt ports.

I think until external/internal storage/flash drives/SSD drives find a standardization/affordable price/or companies adopt one format, then things will be hit and miss for a lot of folks.

Personally, I would like HDs to be resemble the old ZIP drives that one could slide in and out of computers like floppy disks. Have a small internal drive for the OS and apps but bring back some sort of removable portable storage.

Pismos with hot swapping bays, CD/ZIP/floppy/extra battery were the best and most flexible machine ever. Loved mine and was sad to see it go.

eMacMan
May 15th, 2019, 06:00 PM
Good point, not sure why I did not think of SSD. I know I have switched over my personal PC to SSD and my iMac 5K has a 1tb flash drive and MacBook Pro has 512 gig flash. I do believe it is the future as it makes a HUGE difference all across the board.

I guess if it has room for 2 GPU's, RAM and 4 or 5 bays for SSD it would not be all that bad. Not sure how much of the pro community has embraced SSD for storage.

Other than boot times and launching the never used MS Office apps I did not notice any real difference running an SSD on my older MacPro 4,1. However I have disabled Stoplight and do not use TimeMachine, both apps are notorious for slowing HD response. Also the old SATA II connection on my MacPro falls short of fully utilizing an SSD's potential.

gwillikers
May 16th, 2019, 04:41 AM
I could live with that (but I suspect it's a total fake)... but then again who has a cool 7K laying around?

wonderings
May 16th, 2019, 02:48 PM
don't forget the 8 T-bolt ports.

I think until external/internal storage/flash drives/SSD drives find a standardization/affordable price/or companies adopt one format, then things will be hit and miss for a lot of folks.

Personally, I would like HDs to be resemble the old ZIP drives that one could slide in and out of computers like floppy disks. Have a small internal drive for the OS and apps but bring back some sort of removable portable storage.

Pismos with hot swapping bays, CD/ZIP/floppy/extra battery were the best and most flexible machine ever. Loved mine and was sad to see it go.

Apple had it pretty close with the Intel Power Macs. They could have done a tray, not sure if there are any cons to the style when just sliding it in to connect opposed to be screwed in firmly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eTy3NHqEpw

The Power Macs with the funky designs that came out under Steve Jobs were way ahead of their time. Super easy to open and work on, no clutter, wiring perfectly hidden away. They had pro use in mind unlike anything Apple has come out with under Tim Cook

robert
May 16th, 2019, 05:27 PM
true but the cylinder mac pro must have been started when SJ was still around. Wonder why he let it progress?
The cheese grater was the best design for a computer ever. Very user friendly and highly upgradable.

Wish I could get a better graphics card for my 2009 model as I believe it has a lot of life left in it. 512mb is not enough for todays workload.

pm-r
May 16th, 2019, 05:40 PM
I guess if it has room for 2 GPU's, RAM and 4 or 5 bays for SSD it would not be all that bad.


Only if it is all READILY ACCESSIBLE, otherwise it'll be a fail. Again!!!


- Patrick
======

pm-r
May 16th, 2019, 06:22 PM
duplicated post ...sorry. Just ignore.


- Patrick
======

pm-r
May 16th, 2019, 06:29 PM
true but the cylinder mac pro must have been started when SJ was still around. Wonder why he let it progress?


Probably because, just like the Power Mac G4 Cube, it probably reminded Steve of some good times and was also reminiscent of the NeXTcube from NeXT, and besides which, His Highness Sir Jonathan Ive was Steve's golden boy.


- Patrick
======

wonderings
May 17th, 2019, 09:12 AM
true but the cylinder mac pro must have been started when SJ was still around. Wonder why he let it progress?
The cheese grater was the best design for a computer ever. Very user friendly and highly upgradable.

Wish I could get a better graphics card for my 2009 model as I believe it has a lot of life left in it. 512mb is not enough for todays workload.

Good point.

Steve Jobs did have some duds as well, he was not perfect by any means. The G4 Cube as mentioned is a good example. Neat little computer but not what pro users wanted. Apple had options though, the G4 Cube was not a replacement for the PowerMacs, it was a powerful little computer for someone who wanted that power in a smaller form factor that was not all that practical. An example of design over function.

How many years has it been since the trashcan was released and deemed a failure? 5 or 6 years and all Apple has done is come out with an iMac Pro? No real vision or direction there, just cram way better specs into an iMac. Sure it is impressive but they did not even change the design of the iMac to modernize it with a small bezel.

wonderings
May 17th, 2019, 09:17 AM
Only if it is all READILY ACCESSIBLE, otherwise it'll be a fail. Again!!!


- Patrick
======

I agree completely. It could be done with a smaller form factor with the assumption that all the internal drives would be SSD. That is not unlike Apple to push ahead like this. First to get rid of CD drives and disk drives in general. The future is SSD I believe, smaller, faster, just more expensive at the moment.

eMacMan
May 17th, 2019, 10:12 AM
I agree completely. It could be done with a smaller form factor with the assumption that all the internal drives would be SSD. That is not unlike Apple to push ahead like this. First to get rid of CD drives and disk drives in general. The future is SSD I believe, smaller, faster, just more expensive at the moment.

Of course that part is right up Apple's alley.

wonderings
May 17th, 2019, 10:15 AM
Of course that part is right up Apple's alley.

Yes, but in the case of hard drives... removable and user replaceable hard drives this does not give Apple a bunch of money unless someone is foolish enough to buy Apple branded hard drives.

pm-r
May 17th, 2019, 01:41 PM
Yes, but in the case of hard drives... removable and user replaceable hard drives this does not give Apple a bunch of money unless someone is foolish enough to buy Apple branded hard drives.


It does and will if Apple again provides the only hard drives that will fit and work with Apple Proprietary connections!!!


- Patrick
======

wonderings
May 17th, 2019, 02:05 PM
It does and will if Apple again provides the only hard drives that will fit and work with Apple Proprietary connections!!!


- Patrick
======

Guess we will just have to wait and see now. I am not a fan of Apples current direction as I have said numerous times, but I like to think, or at least hope they are not THAT far gone.

hexdiy
May 18th, 2019, 03:36 AM
Well, check out the new Mac Pro. It"ll cost you but will it be expandable or will it be expandable?
Also check out its BTO vid card:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/quadro/

Respect once more, Apple!

wonderings
May 18th, 2019, 10:24 AM
Well, check out the new Mac Pro. It"ll cost you but will it be expandable or will it be expandable?
Also check out its BTO vid card:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/quadro/

Respect once more, Apple!


Respect what? There is no official announcement and the image from the OP might be fake.

The thing people want from a Mac Pro is the ability to expand how YOU want. Want 4 hard drives internal? Sure. What to swap out the GPU? Sure. Easily add more RAM? no problem. Apple has not done this since the discontinued the Intel Power Macs. They have moved to completely enclosed systems. The only computers that were simple to upgrade was the Mac Mini and not sure about the new ones, think the RAM might be soldered on now? Could be wrong on that. I know the 27" iMac lets you change the RAM easily, but thats it.

In the past you could go into a MacBook/Pro easily change the hard drive and the RAM as you saw fit. These are just some basic things that are no longer options. And once purchased Apple does not support any upgrades to the device you wanted. If Apple has its way and you buy a MacBook Pro with 128 gig hard drive and you decide you want more storage well you need to buy a WHOLE NEW MacBook Pro with bigger drive because Apple will not even service it themselves and let you pay to upgrade just that.

CRAZYBUBBA
May 18th, 2019, 05:56 PM
I’m in love with the edge to edge display!
Now just to figure out how to pay for it [emoji23]

wonderings
May 21st, 2019, 02:56 PM
I’m in love with the edge to edge display!
Now just to figure out how to pay for it [emoji23]

Don't think I would call that edge to edge. Bezels are getting very thin and while that still looks a million times better then the big thick bezels on all Apple devices it could still be thinner.

I can't wait till the bezel is completely gone.

pm-r
May 21st, 2019, 03:58 PM
I can't wait till the bezel is completely gone.


Isn't that odd. In all my 30 years of computing, I don't think I have ever considered the display bezel on any display monitor I have ever used.

Removing he bezel completely would be like looking at a picture on a wall without a picture frame which looks really strange to me. At least for normal pictures.

I can't even think of a good reason of why they have super thin or planned or even considerd no bezels.



- Patrick
======

wonderings
May 21st, 2019, 04:46 PM
Isn't that odd. In all my 30 years of computing, I don't think I have ever considered the display bezel on any display monitor I have ever used.

Removing he bezel completely would be like looking at a picture on a wall without a picture frame which looks really strange to me. At least for normal pictures.

I can't even think of a good reason of why they have super thin or planned or even considerd no bezels.



- Patrick
======

Well you get a bigger screen with a smaller footprint for one. It is obviously a preference thing, I think the idea of a floating picture looks much cleaner. When I look at my 27" 5k iMac the screen is brilliant, but it could be bigger while occupying the same foot print by using that 1" all the way around for more screen realestate.

pm-r
May 21st, 2019, 05:16 PM
When I look at my 27" 5k iMac the screen is brilliant, but it could be bigger while occupying the same foot print by using that 1" all the way around for more screen realestate.


LOL... Then you would have a 30 inch display monitor!!! :o

Maybe you should consider using one of these??? ;-)
https://puregaming.net/best-thin-bezel-monitors/



- Patrick
======

wonderings
May 21st, 2019, 05:18 PM
LOL... Then you would have a 30 inch display monitor!!! :o

Maybe you should consider using one of these??? ;-)
https://puregaming.net/best-thin-bezel-monitors/



- Patrick
======

Yes, in the same form factor as the 27" screen of the iMac. I work in design so the more space is always best, especially if I can view jobs at 100% on the screen.

pm-r
May 21st, 2019, 06:30 PM
Yes, in the same form factor as the 27" screen of the iMac. I work in design so the more space is always best, especially if I can view jobs at 100% on the screen.


A good display workspace is always good, and even though I'm not working with graphics or design, but with my aging eyes, I would consider proper high resolution even more important,

And in that department, and maybe considering the bezel size when looking at various display monitors, I'm really surprised that too often, the resolution isn't even stated.

I cannot imagine any normal user purchasing a display monitor that doesn't have its resolution specifications provided, even if it does say HD or superthin bezel.

Even my mid-2011 27" iMac just meets my clarity needs when running at 2560 x 1440 resolution. And even if the glass does go edge to edge, the surrounding shiny black one inch border doesn't really bother me. Actually I've never really even noticed it.


- Patrick
======

hexdiy
May 22nd, 2019, 12:46 AM
but with my aging eyes, I would consider proper high resolution even more important,

My eyes are aging rapidly too, Patrick. But I find a lower resolution/ lower dot pitch more pleasant these days.

Texts get smaller and smaller as resolution increases.

wonderings
May 22nd, 2019, 11:13 AM
A good display workspace is always good, and even though I'm not working with graphics or design, but with my aging eyes, I would consider proper high resolution even more important,

And in that department, and maybe considering the bezel size when looking at various display monitors, I'm really surprised that too often, the resolution isn't even stated.

I cannot imagine any normal user purchasing a display monitor that doesn't have its resolution specifications provided, even if it does say HD or superthin bezel.

Even my mid-2011 27" iMac just meets my clarity needs when running at 2560 x 1440 resolution. And even if the glass does go edge to edge, the surrounding shiny black one inch border doesn't really bother me. Actually I've never really even noticed it.


- Patrick
======

Resolution is very important. I have a 5K iMac and the other production 27" iMac is the standard screen before the 5K's came out. While that screen looked great in its day I cannot imagine going back to that resolution. Everything is so clean and sharp on the 5K.

CubaMark
May 22nd, 2019, 12:42 PM
Resolution is very important. I have a 5K iMac and the other production 27" iMac is the standard screen before the 5K's came out. While that screen looked great in its day I cannot imagine going back to that resolution. Everything is so clean and sharp on the 5K.

I experienced that when my 2014 Retina MacBook Pro died, and I had to use a 2013 MacBook Air for a bit. I was surprised at how difficult it was to go back to an older screen technology...

wonderings
May 22nd, 2019, 12:46 PM
I experienced that when my 2014 Retina MacBook Pro died, and I had to use a 2013 MacBook Air for a bit. I was surprised at how difficult it was to go back to an older screen technology...

Yes, the first move to a retina screen MacBook Pro made any sub resolution look even worse. That is the problem, you move up in resolution and there is no going back.

Had a nice LED Panasonic 1080p TV that was great, parents needed a new TV but did not want one enough to pay for one that size so I just gave them mine and bought a 4K that was on sale. Now the 1080p that I loved looks, well, not 4K. A much cleaner picture and the upscaling is fantastic.

pm-r
May 22nd, 2019, 12:49 PM
My eyes are aging rapidly too, Patrick. But I find a lower resolution/ lower dot pitch more pleasant these days.

Texts get smaller and smaller as resolution increases.


Yes everything can get rather small with the higher resolutions, and I just spent a fortune on my first pair of prescription glasses @78 years (I just used normal Drugstore type $10- $20 Reading glasses for years ) which are actually referred to as "Digital Glasses", with some color and glare and reflection blocking.

They made the screen a bit sharper, so to make it even better, I have adjusted and enlarged the text size and maybe the font for most applications, especially email and browses etc. That stopped any squinting. :o

I had tried lowering the resolution, but it produced a slight blur by comparison to increasing the application's font size.

Also some fonts appear bigger, clearer and sharper, even though the font size remained the same. So a bit of trial and error was involved to get things ready and easy to read without any fuzziness from a lower resolution and larger font result setting.



- Patrick
======

wonderings
May 22nd, 2019, 05:04 PM
Maybe we will find out something at the next Apple event that was just announced for June 3.
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-sends-out-wwdc-2019-keynote-invites-to-mac-and-ios-developers/

This is a developer conference, not sure if they announce any hardware at this time other then letting everyone know how Apple continues to make the world a better place.

Have to say I have pretty much lost all faith in Apple doing anything that will get me excited or have me wanting to hand over more of my money.

There was a recent update to the MacBook Pros with updated CPU's. Curiosity had me look at the different models again and noticed something peculiar. Hard drive sizes seem to vary in price based on model. If you want a 512 gig SSD for a new MacBook Air you are paying $500. Now if you want a 13" MacBook Pro and want the 512 gig SSD you are paying $240.

Why is the MacBook Air double the price for the same size??? Also crazy that you can buy a 1 TB SSD (Apple does not use traditional SSD drives) on amazon for $130-$150. I guess Apples is that much better and worth that HUGE price increase because it is soldered on and cannot be swapped or replaced... wait that sounds like a negative.

hexdiy
May 22nd, 2019, 05:29 PM
Yes everything can get rather small with the higher resolutions, and I just spent a fortune on my first pair of prescription glasses @78 years (I just used normal Drugstore type $10- $20 Reading glasses for years ) which are actually referred to as "Digital Glasses", with some color and glare and reflection blocking.

They made the screen a bit sharper, so to make it even better, I have adjusted and enlarged the text size and maybe the font for most applications, especially email and browses etc. That stopped any squinting. :o

I had tried lowering the resolution, but it produced a slight blur by comparison to increasing the application's font size.

Also some fonts appear bigger, clearer and sharper, even though the font size remained the same. So a bit of trial and error was involved to get things ready and easy to read without any fuzziness from a lower resolution and larger font result setting.



- Patrick
======
Sound advice, Patrick!

I assume you are familiar with the "control-scroll" feature as well?

pm-r
May 22nd, 2019, 08:25 PM
Sound advice, Patrick!

I assume you are familiar with the "control-scroll" feature as well?


Thanks hexdiy, and yes if you are referring to the click scroll wheel and scroll to enlarge or shrink the apps page or window, at least that's what the option I have set for my Logitech m705 mouse. But I find it a little bit too crude in adjustments.

And unfortunately it doesn't work on those small Finder drop down Info Windows like the "Look Up **" word/phrase windoiw. And the text there is tiny and almost too small to read.

I didn't know if that was a standard Mac OS feature or one that I figured out and have set up with customized input on my Logitech mouse.



- Patrick
======

hexdiy
May 22nd, 2019, 09:40 PM
Control- scroll is a standard MaC OS(X) feature/shortcut and works excellently with the trackpad & 2finger scroll on my mid 2012 13" MBP under El Capitan as well. As it does with a standard mouse too.

As is your standard command + / command - , but I have known this to conflict / behave erratically within some apps.

However, you are right: this only goes for the application window, not for dock, menu bar neither side bar.

So your solution seems a very shrewd one, congrats! I"ll certainly keep that in mind for when my time comes.

For the last 2 years I've become rather near-sighted, so I've been able to put my reading specs aside. Weird...

However: kudos to Apple for being the only ones that have always had great focus on Accessibility!
Have you ever experimented with that?

You wouldn't believe the tricks I've witnessed a blind man perform with his iPhone! He actually surfs the internet with it, writes emails, whatever!

pm-r
May 22nd, 2019, 10:56 PM
However, you are right: this only goes for the application window, not for dock, menu bar neither side bar.
... ... ...
However: kudos to Apple for being the only ones that have always had great focus on Accessibility!
Have you ever experimented with that?



Say, I just discovered that pressing and holding the control key and then scrolling does expand anything and everything that's open and showing on my desktop. Neat, and I can sure use that feature sometimes. Thanks.

And yes I use some of the Accessibility options, mainly to enlarge my mouse pointer size. I can't recall what else I might use.
But I notice that I've enabled some of the Zoom > scroll options now that I look. I'd forgotten about that was an option that was available.

Maybe I should review some of them again and maybe update or change some.

PS:
So your solution seems a very shrewd one, congrats! I"ll certainly keep that in mind for when my time comes.
The mod was only available using my Logitech System Prefs software with my Logitech M705 mouse and setting the modifier keys to enable the feature.



- Patrick
======

hexdiy
May 23rd, 2019, 01:46 AM
Maybe I should review some of them again and maybe update or change some.

Very probably you should thoroughly look into the shortcuts and settings of System Preferences > Accessibility again.

Although not every implementation there is perfect, I believe it to be the best on the market.
Hell, it has even been included for free in Mac OS(X) since ages!

I myself haven't needed any of those functions as yet, but I can give you an interesting story here:

in june 2011 ( I believe) I got a distress call from a university student cramming for her exams.

She was relying entirely on Accessibility/ Voice Over (ancient Lion version I think) to read to her her notes in a speeded up version. Because she was extremely dyslectic, she had to rely on audio to study!

But: the HDD of her iMac C2D had crashed.
I drove down from a coast holiday as quickly as legal, bought a new external HDD, installed a fresh version of Mac OSX onto the external USB2 drive via Internet Recovery (seeing there was no time to mechanically muck about with the internal drive of the iMac).

Luckily, only the Mac OSX had gone astray, and she was able to acces all her files & proceed cramming within 3/4 of a day after the breakdown.

She gloriously passed her exams at the 1st sitting & is to be found today @ Linkedin showing a very good track record/ career.

All thanx to Accessibility!

hexdiy
May 23rd, 2019, 02:20 AM
Update Patrick: I'm not half of the KYBD jockey as I should be, but please check these shortcuts in System Preferences > Accessibility out:

https://i.imgur.com/XwghpIw.png

(these are for my El Capitan.)

Specially for you: global zooms:

- Zoom in: option command =
- Zoom out: option command -

Be sure, however, those shortcuts do not interfere with navigating gestures on your trackpad.

Mixed mode KYBD shortcuts & Trackpad gestures can be a bit tricky I reckon...

Tip: you want to enlarge your sidebar: 1st put your mouse pointer on the side bar, then enter the KYBD shortcut.

Center navigation is always preceded by mouse pointer!

Unlike with command + or command- you can never go below the original 100%.
Just meant to enlarge!

Good luck!

pm-r
May 23rd, 2019, 01:01 PM
Be sure, however, those shortcuts do not interfere with navigating gestures on your trackpad.


Thanks hexdiy, but I am using a 2011 27? iMac and no trackpad and also usually Mavericks 10.9.5.

Your zoom codes don't work as suggested with my setup, but interestingly, do make mt Chrome browser scroll up or down a page at a time.

As you say, there are lots of options most users should really have a look at under Accessibility.

I have also been playing around with Automator and AppleScript and specifically creating some Services and then setting up any needed keyboard shortcuts In the Keyboard Pref pane > Services > Shortcuts.

Maybe a bit too fiddly for some, and not always 100% working the way I want, but very useful when they do.

I sure wish i knew a bit more about programming, or at least apple programming and applescript, but i did take a course in HyperCard many years ago that seems to help a bit.

One of my last attempt was to create a services script that provides the number of words and characters for any selected text In any Application, well almost any application, and some weren't cooperating like Google Chrome for some reason but got around the problem using a modified services script.

Anyway, lots of options available that users should explore. And useful getting the Mac to do most of the work, the reason most of us bought a Mac wasn't it???


- Patrick
======

HLReiku
May 28th, 2019, 11:11 AM
Will we see a new display sometime soon? Or did they get out of the dedicated display game just like they did with the airport routers?

wonderings
May 28th, 2019, 11:41 AM
Seems like they have gotten out of making displays. Not much innovation needs to be made there, just updated design and higher resolution screens. They already have the screens from the iMacs.

HLReiku
May 28th, 2019, 01:23 PM
Seems like they have gotten out of making displays. Not much innovation needs to be made there, just updated design and higher resolution screens. They already have the screens from the iMacs.

I'm holding out hope for an iMac/apple display with Apple support. I love my iPad Pro + Apple Pencil but dream of a bigger/ broader display like a workspace with that type of accuracy/feedback.

wonderings
May 28th, 2019, 02:24 PM
I'm holding out hope for an iMac/apple display with Apple support. I love my iPad Pro + Apple Pencil but dream of a bigger/ broader display like a workspace with that type of accuracy/feedback.

You talking about touch support? Would not hold your breath on that, Apple has not been very willing to move into touch screens beyond iPads and iPhones.

HLReiku
May 28th, 2019, 03:52 PM
You talking about touch support? Would not hold your breath on that, Apple has not been very willing to move into touch screens beyond iPads and iPhones.

Oh believe me. It's a hail mary of a hope/wish but it is something I desire.

wonderings
May 28th, 2019, 04:46 PM
Oh believe me. It's a hail mary of a hope/wish but it is something I desire.

Seems like touch screens for desktop serve a small niche market. Are you an illustrator?

The Microsoft Studio looks like a fantastic machine or this type of work. Microsoft has been doing some good things hardware wise lately. Seems they are more interested in pushing the envelope then Apple who is playing it safe and dumb.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m58t4?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab

HLReiku
May 30th, 2019, 04:36 PM
Agreed. Not seeing the magic with Apple lately. Every press conference is pretty by the books, predictable or just uninspired.

wonderings
May 31st, 2019, 02:59 PM
Agreed. Not seeing the magic with Apple lately. Every press conference is pretty by the books, predictable or just uninspired.

Uninspired is the right word. I have a feeling they are going to continue down the same road as they did with the trash can Mac Pro. Maybe make it a bit easier for hard drive swapping but nothing else. They will tout how fast the thunderbolt ports are and how easy that will make just plugging in an external GPU. Forget that external GPU's cost way more then a regular internal GPU, this will somehow be better because you just plug it in.

wonderings
Jun 3rd, 2019, 03:55 PM
Yikes the new Mac Pro and their new screen are probably the ugliest thing Apple has ever come out with since the dawn of the iMac.

They make it sound good and all, but they really dropped the ball in the looks department. That being said what really matters is what is under the hood and looks like they have done some good things though at an incredibly high price point. I think the base hard drive size for a $6000 Mac Pro was only 256 gigs. I could be wrong going by memory from the video.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47995651057_81df035fd5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g8dfV8)pro-display-xdr (https://flic.kr/p/2g8dfV8) by B P (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47995647278_440bca0837_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g8deMY)mac-pro-2019-new (https://flic.kr/p/2g8deMY) by B P (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr


The fake mockup that CubaMark put in the original post looked way better for both the screen and the Mac Pro itself. This new cheese grater design I hope stays with these 2 and does not trickle down to everything else they are doing.

CubaMark
Jun 3rd, 2019, 04:22 PM
Ho-ly.....


:yikes:


:eek:


:yikes:


Surely this is a joke. Cheese Grater Pro? I mean... that's what we used to jokingly call it....

That's... FUGLY.

wonderings
Jun 3rd, 2019, 04:30 PM
Ho-ly.....


:yikes:


:eek:


:yikes:


Surely this is a joke. Cheese Grater Pro? I mean... that's what we used to jokingly call it....

That's... FUGLY.

I saw an image for the Mac Pro and they were using a hideous display, thought it was just some screen they were using and they were not releasing a new monitor until they came back to it and showed off its specs. Really really really bad. Waiting for Apple to get the info up on the website to really study if this new Mac Pro despite its ugly appearance is a pro computer I would actually want. Worried they have gone small again limiting upgrade options.

wonderings
Jun 3rd, 2019, 04:53 PM
Don't think the new Mac Pro takes standard drives, be it the convention or SSD. Guess they did not completely learn from the trash can mac pro. More wires for all your external drives

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47996030568_7daa0ca540_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g8fcJq)Screen Shot 2019-06-03 at 3.50.51 PM (https://flic.kr/p/2g8fcJq) by B P (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

Guessing those Apple propriety drives are going to cost a fortune.

pm-r
Jun 3rd, 2019, 06:14 PM
Ho-ly.....
... ... ...
Surely this is a joke. Cheese Grater Pro? I mean... that's what we used to jokingly call it....

That's... FUGLY.


+1!!!

Yes FUGLY!!! Definitely a good and appropriate name.

I'm afraid to check out many of the specs as I'm sure His Higness Jonathan Ive will have F'd things up again. He really should go and retire somewhere.



- Patrick
======

Macfury
Jun 3rd, 2019, 07:40 PM
Functionally a step in the right direction, but really ugly. Tim Cook needs to go.

robert
Jun 3rd, 2019, 09:24 PM
I don't like the tube chrome bits but the box and "vent holes" are beautiful.

Finally back to an expandable desktop computer! The access is nice to see.

Since there is no longer a CD/DVD drive, there is no need for this to sit on or near the front of a deck so looks are relative. Functionality however is key.

Glad to see they are slowly moving back to what pro users want/need.

hexdiy
Jun 3rd, 2019, 09:40 PM
+1, too expensive for mere mortals, but functionality/ expandability is back.

So long, Jony Ive!

CubaMark
Jun 3rd, 2019, 11:35 PM
I don't like the tube chrome bits but the box and "vent holes" are beautiful.

Eye of the beholder.... :o

Finally back to an expandable desktop computer! The access is nice to see.

Reminds me a lot of the G4 Cube I have sitting beside me ;)

https://i.gifer.com/7hAr.gif

Glad to see they are slowly moving back to what pro users want/need.

The specs do seem to be there - as noted above, concerned about the $$$ of Apple's onboard storage, though I imagine most buyers will go for an external RAID.

One thing about all those holes in the case... think that thing will be a dust magnet?

https://tr4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2006/07/18/65b36ab3-c3c3-11e2-bc00-02911874f8c8/6065.jpg

hexdiy
Jun 4th, 2019, 01:35 AM
Hell, functionality will be the final arbiter.

And functionality will be judged in corporate, seeing the $$$!

We, mere mortals, will have to make go with what we've got.

Which is a tad more than Windows owners!

wonderings
Jun 4th, 2019, 09:14 AM
The proprietary storage is a awful and just another cash grab for Apple. Heaven forbid anyone source parts from someone other than Apple.

This is a beast of a machine, they have ignored a pro element that does not need this level of processing power. I would like to have a moderately priced Mac Pro that gives me options to upgrade as I see fit down the road. A starting price of $6700 CDN before taxes is only going to be used by a small group of pro users, looks like it is way more geared to video and audio editing. Were the PowerMacs always this pricey in their day? I remember having Dual G4's and a Dual G5 and remember them being expensive but not that expensive. My memory could be off on that though.

I would have loved to see a cheaper Mac Pro, stick to the i7's and i9 chips and a decent video card that can all be upgraded as needed. Also, and I do not know why Apple thinks they need to reinvent the wheel here, go with a regular hard drive bays. I like less clutter, I don't want external even though the connections are super fast.

On a different note, is it just me or does the image of the Mac Pro on apple.com look like a vector image rather then a real picture of the machine? Looks like cheap clipart to me.

robert
Jun 4th, 2019, 11:30 AM
I don't think the HDs will be proprietary for long. Seems Apple is adopting a new tech which will be available from others soon.

They are just leading the pack again. We are at a point where many things/components are changing. If HDs become small but with huge storage, then desktop clutter will be less. Ram seems to be the last of the "big components" left to change.

The dust will settle in a few years but we have to ride out the storm till then. (think floppy disks or CD drives)

A cheaper Mac Pro exists in the imac Pro but I feel they will release a less powerful desktop next year like they did with the iphone.

It is good news Apple is listening but their timing and product release schedule still needs work. Hopefully they will avoid the mess of the 90's with too many products in their line up.

Lastly, on the USA site it looks like the processor is removable/upgradable. Screws hold a wire which clamps the processor to the board. Interesting if this is true.

wonderings
Jun 4th, 2019, 12:44 PM
I don't think the HDs will be proprietary for long. Seems Apple is adopting a new tech which will be available from others soon.

They are just leading the pack again. We are at a point where many things/components are changing. If HDs become small but with huge storage, then desktop clutter will be less. Ram seems to be the last of the "big components" left to change.

The dust will settle in a few years but we have to ride out the storm till then. (think floppy disks or CD drives)

A cheaper Mac Pro exists in the imac Pro but I feel they will release a less powerful desktop next year like they did with the iphone.

It is good news Apple is listening but their timing and product release schedule still needs work. Hopefully they will avoid the mess of the 90's with too many products in their line up.

Lastly, on the USA site it looks like the processor is removable/upgradable. Screws hold a wire which clamps the processor to the board. Interesting if this is true.


Maybe, first I have seen this technology, looks like Apple proprietary tech to me but I could be wrong.

Can you buy those SSD drives from anywhere but Apple?

Not everyone wants an iMac as it is limited in upgradeability and certainly not easy to work on like a tower should be.

It did look to me like the processor is replaceable, the question will be what will be supported? What chipset are they using?

A moderately priced, upgradeable, easy to work on, tower mac is what a lot of people would like. Not every pro user is in the market for/or can afford an $8000 computer. If it was $5000 CDN it would be something I would be interested in, I paid a little more then that for my 5K iMac. $8000 for a computer with only 256 gigs of hard drive space is not the best solution for many pro users, though we all wish we could have one of those beasts hidden under our desks.... would want that one out of sight.

BReligion
Jun 4th, 2019, 01:16 PM
Maybe, first I have seen this technology, looks like Apple proprietary tech to me but I could be wrong.

Can you buy those SSD drives from anywhere but Apple?


I would bet within weeks or a month of the release OWC or somewhere like that will have a caddy you can put your own SSD into with an interface to the new port.

BReligion

Macfury
Jun 4th, 2019, 01:51 PM
Finally hit the point where I will allow a hackintosh builder to create a super fast computer inside a nice 2012 aluminum case.

wonderings
Jun 4th, 2019, 02:04 PM
I would bet within weeks or a month of the release OWC or somewhere like that will have a caddy you can put your own SSD into with an interface to the new port.

BReligion

at what price though? You can get a 1 TB SSD (standard universal SSD) for around $150. Apple's prices for there SSD drives when building a Mac is 3 or 4x as much. Seems to be steady at that price tag for the last few years, no dipping or normalizing.

I like the idea of smaller drives, if they are stable and long lasting, but at that increased price I would take more storage at a fraction of the cost with a still fast SSD.

pm-r
Jun 4th, 2019, 02:52 PM
I would bet within weeks or a month of the release OWC or somewhere like that will have a caddy you can put your own SSD into with an interface to the new port.

BReligion


+1!! Quite likely, unless Apple has some other crazy proprietary restriction.


- Patrick
======

wonderings
Jun 4th, 2019, 03:07 PM
+1!! Quite likely, unless Apple has some other crazy proprietary restriction.


- Patrick
======

I have no doubt it will be done, OWC did it for the MacBook Pros. Problem is again the price. Prices are still high for these. For 1 TB for the MacBook Pro the price is $530 + taxes still. Is there some huge improvement with Apples version over a standard SSD? I have a 1 TB ssd in my iMac. On my home PC that I play around with doing nerd things I have a 128 gig SSD. There is noticeable speed difference, if anything the Windows 10 PC boots up faster then my maxed out 5K iMac. I think that is a software thing though. What are we gaining with Apples much more expensive SSD over the much cheaper and universal SSD drive?

hexdiy
Jun 4th, 2019, 03:57 PM
A note on these incredibly expensive SSDs:

https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-guide-to-specs-and-upgrades

HLReiku
Jun 4th, 2019, 09:43 PM
Only time will tell. I hope this means cheaper trash can Mac Pros but I doubt it.

pm-r
Jun 4th, 2019, 10:02 PM
It seems to me, and from what I read, that even if Apple is calling their latest Mac "Pro" model a Pro model, it won't truely be one for many Mac "Pro" users until Apple's chiefs can get rid of their bigoted opinions sorted out and accept and help support some high-end graphics hardware such as those from Nvidia etc. and the various GPUs.

Just a thought.


- Patrick
======

hexdiy
Jun 4th, 2019, 10:44 PM
Just a thought: why not try an EGPU on a Thunderbolt 3 capable Mac such as the 2018 Mac Mini?
GPU of your own choice with it.

Not cheap, but a lot cheaper than this ridiculously priced new Mac Pro.

The money you spare with that will probably get you a nice Eizo or so monitor as well...

Macfury
Jun 4th, 2019, 11:12 PM
Only time will tell. I hope this means cheaper trash can Mac Pros but I doubt it.

The kijiji market for used trashcans has definitely cheapened over the past few weeks. I've seen trashcans for less than $2,000, but they go quickly.

pm-r
Jun 4th, 2019, 11:35 PM
Just a thought: why not try an EGPU on a Thunderbolt 3 capable Mac such as the 2018 Mac Mini?
GPU of your own choice with it.

Not cheap, but a lot cheaper than this ridiculously priced new Mac Pro.

The money you spare with that will probably get you a nice Eizo or so monitor as well...



All such possibilities are well beyond all of my Mac knowledge, but even if it were possible, I'm sure Apple woulld have figured out and calculated how to thwart such setups in order to protect their BIG $$ Mac "Pro" models sales.

Actually, I really wonder how many high-end Mac Pro graphics and gamer users aren't and haven't been using modified Hackintoshes and will continue to do so for years.

It will be interesting to see the sales results of the newly announced Pro models later this year.


- Patrick
======

hexdiy
Jun 4th, 2019, 11:36 PM
Go get some, then!

Sorry, this was childishly sarcastic...

hexdiy
Jun 5th, 2019, 12:06 AM
Distinct possibility, Patrick!

Lookie here, e.g:

https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/best-egpu-mac-3673105/

https://www.akitio.com/expansion/node

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicegpu/

Simply expansion monsters to be had right now! Maybe even for your own Mac?

See what I mean?

I mean: Radeon Pro RT 580 expansion for less than 200$+ expansion bay.
Not too bad, is it?

pm-r
Jun 5th, 2019, 12:40 AM
Distinct possibility, Patrick!

Lookie here, e.g:

Just as I mentioned, Apple won't have a true Mac "Pro" model until they grow up and mature a bit and get rid of their unfounded anti-Nvidia attitude:
Unfortunately, Apple and nVidia don't seem to get along these days, so the macOS currently only works with a limited selection of graphics cards from AMD.
...
Sadly, this means that the enormously popular nVidia range of graphics cards is still off limits for Mac users, although hopefully this will change in the future (the brave souls at egpu.io have actually found ways of using nVidia cards with Macs, but this generally involves some scary hacking).
https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/best-egpu-mac-3673105/

So typical, and so unfounded... and so immature!!! Sad really.



- Patrick
======

hexdiy
Jun 5th, 2019, 12:52 AM
NVidia EGPU unlock? Here you go:

https://theunlockr.com/how-to-use-nvidia-cards-with-your-mac-egpu/

F*ck SIP!

Running FireWire 400 Audio cards ad lib on a 2011 MacBook Air & Mid 2012 MacBook Pro as we speak.

Don't tell anyone, but without SIP/ code signing those elderly drivers will still work!

wonderings
Jun 5th, 2019, 09:49 AM
You can certainly add an eGPU to Mac's that support it to boost their power, but that is only a small part of it. You still need a powerful processor or you start bottlenecking and all that money spent on a big expensive external GPU goes out the window.

I think the only way you will get a cheap trash can mac pro is used, Apple keeps their prices even on refurbished ridiculously high. They are selling refurbed Mac Mini's that came out in 2014 for $1800. Who would have thought a computer that is 5 years old would still be worth such a high price? Cheapest refurb Mac Pro is just under $3K. They will clear out their inventory I am sure even with the higher prices on older models.

pm-r
Jun 5th, 2019, 12:44 PM
F*ck SIP!


I had almost forgotten some of the interference and screw-ups that SIP caused and had forgotten then that it is still disabled on my 2011 27" iMac.


- Patrick
======

wonderings
Jun 6th, 2019, 10:07 AM
I watched WWDC last night. I do like some of the things Apple has done, though nothing that really made me go "wow".

I loved the audible groan at the price of the monitor stand and would have loved to see Tim Cooks reaction and possibly dismay being unable to comprehend how people would have any issue with that.

The Mac Pro is made for 2 industries, audio and video. For audio not sure how many studios need that raw power to go through a thousand tracks, seems like a niche market though I could be wrong. Video editing I completely get. Apple really has skipped over a wide variety of pro users making a machine that financially would not make sense as it would take a long time to get your return on a machine like that. This is another example of how Apple leadership is out of touch in my opinion. People wanted a pro machine, Apple did that, but made an extreme pro machine priced for a small market of large studios.

I do like that it is expandable though the removing of the lid is a step back compared to the Mac Pro and PowerMac G4's of the past. Much simpler access to the insides. Small panel removed or the whole side just opens up giving you access. Not a huge deal though as it is not something you are constantly going in and out of.

They completely skipped over the SSD drives in the machine. No talk of price or any benefits their proprietary SSD has over traditional drives. Probably would have been another reply of groans from the audience. They will be priced high and I am guessing people with it with probably opt for external drives with tons of storage for a fraction of the price negating any real value of the Apple SSD.

eMacMan
Jun 6th, 2019, 11:40 AM
As usual Nitrozac and Snaggy over at Joy of Tech have nailed it.

The Joy of Tech comic... Apple's new Mac Pro... (http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/2616.html)

WCraig
Jun 7th, 2019, 09:21 AM
... Apple really has skipped over a wide variety of pro users making a machine that financially would not make sense as it would take a long time to get your return on a machine like that. This is another example of how Apple leadership is out of touch in my opinion. People wanted a pro machine, Apple did that, but made an extreme pro machine priced for a small market of large studios. ...

Wah, wah, wah. In the current lineup, there are Minis that go up to 6 cores and iMac Pros that go up to 18 cores. WTF more do you want?

The new Mac Pro is firmly aimed at the workstation market. Yes, Virginia, there is a class of devices more powerful than "personal computers". They are a lot more varied than just the audio and video you mentioned. Take, say, any field of scientific computing. Crunching massive data sets or modelling complex systems. You may not be enamoured of it but another industry is electronic stock and bond trading also relies on ultra high performance analysis. Engineering design and analysis. A couple of new Pros would make a kick-ass build server for a large development team. And so on.

Are they expensive. Damm straight. You have to be this tall to play. You, apparently, are not. I'm certainly not. From what I've read, though, the new Pro compares well to similarly equipped machines from Dell, etc.

BTW, they briefly mentioned that there is going to be a rack-mount version of the Mac Pro. I would give odds that they will sell more units of the rack mounts than the new cheese grater.

Craig

wonderings
Jun 7th, 2019, 09:23 AM
Wah, wah, wah. In the current lineup, there are Minis that go up to 6 cores and iMac Pros that go up to 18 cores. WTF more do you want?

The new Mac Pro is firmly aimed at the workstation market. Yes, Virginia, there is a class of devices more powerful than "personal computers". They are a lot more varied than just the audio and video you mentioned. Take, say, any field of scientific computing. Crunching massive data sets or modelling complex systems. You may not be enamoured of it but another industry is electronic stock and bond trading also relies on ultra high performance analysis. Engineering design and analysis. A couple of new Pros would make a kick-ass build server for a large development team. And so on.

Are they expensive. Damm straight. You have to be this tall to play. You, apparently, are not. I'm certainly not. From what I've read, though, the new Pro compares well to similarly equipped machines from Dell, etc.

BTW, they briefly mentioned that there is going to be a rack-mount version of the Mac Pro. I would give odds that they will sell more units of the rack mounts than the new cheese grater.

Craig

I have mentioned what I would want and many other pros would want. A tower mac with no screen, more power in both CPU and GPU then a Mac Mini has with EASY and affordable non-proprietary internal hard drive bays, SSD size would be fine.

I am not questioning how it compares to other extremely high end machines, according to Apple there Apple display is incredibly well priced, but again that is for a tiny portion of the pro market.

BReligion
Jun 7th, 2019, 09:30 AM
Are they expensive. Damm straight. You have to be this tall to play. You, apparently, are not. I'm certainly not. From what I've read, though, the new Pro compares well to similarly equipped machines from Dell, etc.

BTW, they briefly mentioned that there is going to be a rack-mount version of the Mac Pro. I would give odds that they will sell more units of the rack mounts than the new cheese grater.

Craig

Was talking this very thing the other day... I wonder if this is them dipping their toes backing to the "server" class pool without full committal of calling it an Xserve again (and ostracizing the desktop "pros").

BReligion

wonderings
Jun 7th, 2019, 09:51 AM
Was talking this very thing the other day... I wonder if this is them dipping their toes backing to the "server" class pool without full committal of calling it an Xserve again (and ostracizing the desktop "pros").

BReligion

They definitely made a note of it and there is a rack mount version of the Mac Pro they briefly showed.