: APFS and external storage


Kleles
Nov 15th, 2017, 01:27 PM
From what I’ve read, High Sierra (10.13) converts a Mac with SSD to APFS. What happens when I use external storage like hard drives and USB keys. Will 10.13 read and write to these devices without altering the file structure, or will they be converted to APFS and rendered unreadable to Mac OS 10.12 or less?

SINC
Nov 15th, 2017, 03:13 PM
Interesting question as I did not know this. I backup all my SSD files to regular external drives and USB keys. Should I too be worried?

hexdiy
Nov 15th, 2017, 04:44 PM
Rest assured, APFS will not affect external drives, network drives, internal rotational drives and Fusion drives- yet.

APFS seems to be in a kind of beta state- even if it has already been released.

One more step towards the fusion between Mac OS and iOS, I'm afraid

Moscool
Nov 15th, 2017, 07:48 PM
Well High Sierra/APFS bricked my external HD after upgrade!
Investigating possible fixes and will report back...

hexdiy
Nov 15th, 2017, 09:43 PM
This is fascinating.
Did you upgrade to High Sierra with your external HDD switched on?

Did you lose any data? If so, try the latest version of Data Rescue or Disk Drill.

Good luck!

hexdiy
Nov 15th, 2017, 09:54 PM
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208033

Kleles
Nov 15th, 2017, 10:01 PM
Well High Sierra/APFS bricked my external HD after upgrade!
Investigating possible fixes and will report back...

Scary stuff! This is a nightmare result. I hope you recover everything. Let us know what you learn.

gwillikers
Nov 16th, 2017, 12:27 AM
Is It Possible Not to Convert to APFS When Upgrading to High Sierra? (https://blog.macsales.com/42884-is-it-possible-not-to-convert-to-apfs-when-upgrading-to-high-sierra?utm_source=xlr8yourmac&APC=XLR8YourMac13)

eMacMan
Nov 16th, 2017, 01:08 PM
This is fascinating.
Did you upgrade to High Sierra with your external HDD switched on?

Did you lose any data? If so, try the latest version of Data Rescue or Disk Drill.

Good luck!

Every once in awhile OS updates create havoc, 10.3.7 and 10.4.1 come to mind. Best policy has long been to disable all secondary drives when installing a new OS or an OS update and with a change in formatting involved, High Sierra could be particularly dangerous.

Not a personal concern at the moment, but if you drag and drop a file from an APFS drive to back it up to an HFS+ device will the copied version be usable?

hexdiy
Nov 16th, 2017, 05:38 PM
[QUOTE=eMacMan;2573897
Not a personal concern at the moment, but if you drag and drop a file from an APFS drive to back it up to an HFS+ device will the copied version be usable?[/QUOTE]

Formatting schemes do not affect your files. E.g.: ever had any problems with files copied onto, say, Fat32 or Exfat thumb drives?

NTFS is a different matter, because normally, MacOS(X) cannot write to that.

Moscool
Nov 17th, 2017, 08:36 AM
Scary stuff! This is a nightmare result. I hope you recover everything. Let us know what you learn.

The nightmare is worse than I thought (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8164891)! :eek::confused::mad:

Kleles
Nov 17th, 2017, 12:24 PM
The nightmare is worse than I thought (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8164891)! :eek::confused::mad:

I read the conversation in the Apple forum — still no resolution for you!
As you’ve sought a solution, have you read anything about how to avoid this problem when installing High Sierra?

Moscool
Nov 19th, 2017, 08:31 PM
I read the conversation in the Apple forum — still no resolution for you!
As you’ve sought a solution, have you read anything about how to avoid this problem when installing High Sierra?

Well I'm now pretty sure that the first drive is bricked. As it was an Amazon purchase less than 6 weeks old, they kindly sent a replacement. The second drive did pretty much the same thing but has now appeared in the devices window and I was able to reformat it. It now seems to behave correctly.

Sync.com is now playing up to restore the data but their tech support is on it...

My recommendation is to be very careful with HDDs and High Sierra and perhaps to have 'double redundancy' before upgrading. Otherwise the OS works well.

yeeeha
Nov 22nd, 2017, 12:32 PM
Perhaps someone could enlighten me. Do files that are created in OS 10.12 and below have a HFS+ file structure and somehow this is not compatible with APFS of OS 10.13, and this could end up bricking an external HDD?

I thought I had read somewhere that OS 10.13 would only implement APFS on SSD. If the internal drive of a Mac is HDD, OS 10.13 will continue to use HFS+ .

Kleles
Nov 22nd, 2017, 03:18 PM
Perhaps someone could enlighten me. Do files that are created in OS 10.12 and below have a HFS+ file structure and somehow this is not compatible with APFS of OS 10.13, and this could end up bricking an external HDD?

I thought I had read somewhere that OS 10.13 would only implement APFS on SSD. If the internal drive of a Mac is HDD, OS 10.13 will continue to use HFS+ .

My understanding was the same: OS 10.13 would only implement APFS on SSD. But my peripheral devices are all HFS+ and I was concerned about their integrity when accessed (reading and writing) by a computer with AFPS. I’m not convinced yet that there would be no problem (see Moscool above).

Perhaps the problems arise only when external drives are mounted by Mac OS when 10.13 is being installed.

Kleles
Jan 12th, 2018, 05:20 PM
Has the latest High Sierra update addressed the issue of bricking external HDs? I’ve done some research but it doesn’t come up as a topic.

macintosh doctor
Jan 14th, 2018, 02:55 PM
i am not surprised by reading through this thread. 10.13 has bricked many many computers of my clients.
failed updates only to end up reformating and starting over from your last time machine and back to 10.12 - where it works.

pm-r
Jan 14th, 2018, 09:03 PM
i am not surprised by reading through this thread. 10.13 has bricked many many computers of my clients.


That does NOT sound like an encouraging comment!!!

With your experience in these cases, would you say the problem is/was due to the macOS High Sierra 10.13.x Install or to the complication of the APFS formatting?

Or are there some operator/user problems as well and/or a goofy running Mac even before the HS install???

Most Mac users I know and who can update, I am NOT going to say "upgrade!!!, are avoiding installing macOS High Sierra 10.13.x, at least so far.
I do not really consider the last small update a proper macOS X update.


- Patrick
======

macintosh doctor
Jan 15th, 2018, 04:19 PM
the issue is the update begins and then stops.. and the computer is in either two states.
1. spinning wheel during boot
or 2. log in screen but then spinning wheel when you want to get in to your user

the worst part of this is - all the folders have don't enter symbols on them when you target disk mode it to recover.

i have been saying to many many users - do not update what so ever.. there is no 'benefit' to it.
unless you are willing to do it from scratch and spend hundreds of dollars on software upgrades
and yes 50% chance your externals will not mount.

csonni
Jan 15th, 2018, 05:22 PM
i have been saying to many many users - don't not update what so ever.. there is no 'benefit' to it.

I think you meant “do not update” rather than “don’t not update.”

macintosh doctor
Jan 15th, 2018, 09:11 PM
I think you meant “do not update” rather than “don’t not update.”

fixed thanks lol

csonni
Feb 10th, 2018, 07:56 AM
I now have (2) 4TB HDD's in hand and will plan a backup strategy. Before formatting, I'm wondering about restoring from a clone on a Journalled formatted drive, back onto an APFS internal drive on my MBP. Are there any known issues with this?

pm-r
Feb 10th, 2018, 09:13 PM
Are there any known issues with this?


I would be checking with the developer of the cloning software just to be sure.

CCC has a lot of info at their FAQ pages and an open forum as well as direct email.

csonni
Feb 10th, 2018, 09:31 PM
Just did. Thanks for the suggestion.

csonni
Feb 10th, 2018, 10:42 PM
Quick reply. Hats off to Shirt Pocket!

Here's their response:

"We happily copy from HFS+ to APFS or vice versa (and, of course, HFS+ to HFS+ and APFS to APFS)..."

pm-r
Feb 10th, 2018, 11:16 PM
Just did. Thanks for the suggestion.

OK, but sorry I suggested the other OS X cloner software but I'm sure they're about the same for support.

And good to know it works between formats, but would have been a bit surprised if it hadn't. :o

eMacMan
Feb 10th, 2018, 11:24 PM
Quick reply. Hats off to Shirt Pocket!

Here's their response:

"We happily copy from HFS+ to APFS or vice versa (and, of course, HFS+ to HFS+ and APFS to APFS)..."

Been using SuperDuper to create disk images of my OS since forever. In all that time only one issue, and that was not disastrous.