: The Education Thread


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screature
Sep 11th, 2017, 02:39 PM
In the "Deep Thoughts" thread the issue of education and who pays for what etc., etc. came up. it was interesting, a lot of hyperbole and not much fact/data. But it is indeed a very, very important subject. I thought it warranted its own thread to fully discuss the matter without disrupting the "Deep Thoughts" thread needlessly.

So for those who are game, let's have at 'er.

Dr.G.
Sep 11th, 2017, 03:43 PM
A fine idea for a thread, Steve. I have been a teacher, in one capacity or the next, at various age/grade levels, for 40 years. I still agree with Einstein. Paix, mon ami.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 11th, 2017, 05:43 PM
30 years for me as a teacher, Steve. I think it's a fine idea to start a new thread devoted to education, though I can also guess what will happen when the usual suspects arrive.


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Freddie_Biff
Sep 11th, 2017, 05:50 PM
Some etymology for the word "education," which appears to have a number of possible roots.

Western educationists have discovered few Latin words through investigation. According to them, the English word 'Education' has been derived from Latin words "educare", "educere", "educatum", "E+duco", "educatus", "educatio".

1) 'Educate' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educare'. The term 'educare' means 'to bring up', 'to rise', and 'to nourish'. The child has to bring up like a plant in the garden by the teacher. His potentialities should be developed with proper care and nourishment.

2) 'Educere' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educere'. The term 'educere' means 'to lead out', 'to draw out' and 'to bring from'. Each and every child has the innate powers. The innate powers of the child should be properly cared, given scope to develop. It should be located and proper education to be developed.

3) 'Educatum' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educatum'. The term 'educatum' means 'act of teaching' or 'training'. Education is something which is imposed from outside. It is external growth through activities and experience. The teacher, through education provides instructions and gives direction to mould his abilities.

4) 'E+duco' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'E+duco,. The term 'E' means 'out of' and 'duco' means 'to lead,.The child has inherited potentialities. It is inborn. It should be developed, but how and by whom? It is possible through education and by the active co-operation of the teacher.

5) 'Educatus' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educatus'. The term 'educatus' means 'to bring up', 'rear', 'educate'.

6) 'Educatio' - The term education has been derived from the Latin word 'educatio'. The term 'educatio' means 'a breeding', 'a bringing up', 'a rearing'.

http://eduhutch.blogspot.ca/2014/11/etymological-meaning-of-education.html


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Dr.G.
Sep 11th, 2017, 06:10 PM
30 years for me as a teacher, Steve. I think it's a fine idea to start a new thread devoted to education, though I can also guess what will happen when the usual suspects arrive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wow. That is 70 years between us ............ and you are still going full-time and I am still teaching part-time. Let's see if we can reach 100 years. Paix, mon ami.

Dr.G.
Sep 11th, 2017, 06:27 PM
30 years for me as a teacher, Steve. I think it's a fine idea to start a new thread devoted to education, though I can also guess what will happen when the usual suspects arrive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Be positive, mon ami. There is no reason to drown this thread in negative postings. We shall see. Paix.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 11th, 2017, 06:44 PM
Be positive, mon ami. There is no reason to drown this thread in negative postings. We shall see. Paix.


Agreed. But remember the wise words of Dr. Macgraw: the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. [emoji6]

FeXL
Sep 11th, 2017, 07:07 PM
Be positive, mon ami. There is no reason to drown this thread in negative postings. We shall see. Paix.

Too late, Dr.G. He's already started...

Macfury
Sep 11th, 2017, 07:26 PM
Too late, Dr.G. He's already started...

Man, I was going to leave this thread to itself until he started in.

Dr.G.
Sep 11th, 2017, 09:17 PM
Agreed. But remember the wise words of Dr. Macgraw: the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. [emoji6]

Sometimes this is true. Still, I like to give people the opportunity to make positive comments, even if they are critical comments, in all threads. It is when the comments get personal, as in "You taught 40 years????? What a dope to stick it out that long." So, we shall see who contributes to this thread and how their contributions advance the discussion about education. Paix, mon ami.

Rps
Sep 11th, 2017, 10:23 PM
Years and years ago when I was in college, we were taught that when you were at work you should never talk about politics, religion and sex......to this list one could easily add education. It is a topic everyone seems to have opinions on. But, regardless of your opinion, education has always come down to two fundamental issues......Implementing Ryerson's " hidden agenda" and someone today determines what someone else in the future will need to know.

Dr.G.
Sep 11th, 2017, 11:07 PM
Somewhat true, Rp. Still, effective teachers help students learn how to think and not what to think. Still, I agree that it is hard to buck the trend of centralized curricular. Paix, mon ami.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 01:21 AM
I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."

eMacMan
Sep 12th, 2017, 01:26 AM
I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."

I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 01:33 AM
I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.

However, today it's leftist.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:33 AM
I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."

Who does that, Macfury? I know I never did and I taught social studies. You can't generalize like that and expect it to be accepted as the truth. Paix, mon ami.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:34 AM
I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.

Very good point, Bob. This enables each student to have the means to learn on his or her own in the future, and to be able to become critical thinkers. Paix, mon ami.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:35 AM
However, today it's leftist.

You say tomato, I say potato ............. Just because you say something does not necessarily make it true. Paix, mon ami.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIYS9EQWkXg

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 09:03 AM
Who does that, Macfury? I know I never did and I taught social studies. You can't generalize like that and expect it to be accepted as the truth. Paix, mon ami.

I have watched it repeatedly in the Toronto area. Students are graded poorly if they interpret a novel outside of the approved ideology, for example. All history is taught through a leftist lens.

Rps
Sep 12th, 2017, 09:08 AM
I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."

The issue that I see is not ideology, I mean we all live one whether we recognise it or not, but being able to think about issues. Unfortunately from lower grades to high school students are essentially told to " listen" and when they enter college or university are expected to think......and it is a brave teacher who challenges that model. We also need to focus on core competencies...these will never change and provide a framework from which students can develop critical thinking skills to be used their entire life.

wonderings
Sep 12th, 2017, 09:11 AM
I have watched it repeatedly in the Toronto area. Students are graded poorly if they interpret a novel outside of the approved ideology, for example. All history is taught through a leftist lens.

It certainly seems to be true from what I have watched happening on Universities (specifically in the States). Probably not true everywhere but it seems it has become the mainstream norm. Having a differing opinion then Antifa or any social justice group gets you labeled a bigot, fascist, nazi, racists, etc. Schools have shut down events, or made strong efforts to shut events down because they disagree with the speaker. School should be a place to explore ideas and have them challenged, instead it appears to have become a place you must conform to the approved ideals of the school. I would be happy to be dead wrong on this bleak view of schools today.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 09:18 AM
I already experienced this when I was in university decades ago. Professors announcing that they would fail anyone who mentioned a libertarian theme in their papers. Economics professors who deliberately went off curriculum to flog Marxist economic theory that was not part of the textbook and would not be part of the final exam--leaving students unable to complete parts of the group exam that were on curriculum. The latest examples I have seen are in high school, where students grimly state that they have to stay on political message or they will be penalized.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 12th, 2017, 10:13 AM
I have watched it repeatedly in the Toronto area. Students are graded poorly if they interpret a novel outside of the approved ideology, for example. All history is taught through a leftist lens.



Paranoid much? That is certainly not true at any school I've worked in. Teachers as a whole may lean to the left, but the curricula is fairly objective.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 11:14 AM
The curriculum may be objective, but many of the teachers are not.

Paranoid much? That is certainly not true at any school I've worked in. Teachers as a whole may lean to the left, but the curricula is fairly objective.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 11:45 AM
I have watched it repeatedly in the Toronto area. Students are graded poorly if they interpret a novel outside of the approved ideology, for example. All history is taught through a leftist lens.

Well, as most researchers would tell you is that anecdotal observations are important, but they should not be utilized to make broad generalizations.

"All history is taught through a leftist lens." Once again, this is your opinion, and just saying it does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 11:50 AM
"School should be a place to explore ideas and have them challenged, instead it appears to have become a place you must conform to the approved ideals of the school. I would be happy to be dead wrong on this bleak view of schools today." Very good point, Wonderings. Personally, I was shocked when some at Berkley, the university that helped to foster the "free speech movement" back in the 60s, were so closed that they prevented a speaker from speaking.

I too hope that you and I are both wrong re this "bleak view" that is trending in some schools. Hard to think that there were 18-21 year olds, the age of most university students today, who stormed the beaches at Normandy ........ and yet now they need "safe places" to calm down when they hear something disturbing. Paix, mon ami.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 11:54 AM
I already experienced this when I was in university decades ago. Professors announcing that they would fail anyone who mentioned a libertarian theme in their papers. Economics professors who deliberately went off curriculum to flog Marxist economic theory that was not part of the textbook and would not be part of the final exam--leaving students unable to complete parts of the group exam that were on curriculum. The latest examples I have seen are in high school, where students grimly state that they have to stay on political message or they will be penalized.

Wow. Now that is taking "academic freedom" to a dangerous extreme. Sadly, I too had profs who did not want to hear any "anti Vietnam war" discussions.

Still, neither you nor I should draw overall conclusions based on these personal experiences.

I recall some of my students shocked when I let them talk about the use of synthetic phonics. I said that even though I advocated different approaches, I felt that if a student could learn to read this way, then it was the proper approach to utilize. I actually liked it when students disagreed with me and my views as to literacy education, rather than just have them try to "spit back" what I was saying, whether they believed in it or not.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 11:56 AM
The curriculum may be objective, but many of the teachers are not.

True. Some teachers lean towards the left .......... others to the right ........ and some have no concern over one's leanings. This is why it is important to experience teachers with all points of views.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 12:04 PM
It makes it so at the three schools with which I have direct experience and at dozens of schools where others I know have direct experience.

Well, as most researchers would tell you is that anecdotal observations are important, but they should not be utilized to make broad generalizations.

"All history is taught through a leftist lens." Once again, this is your opinion, and just saying it does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 12:05 PM
There are no right-leaners at the high school with which I am most familiar. One centrist.

True. Some teachers lean towards the left .......... others to the right ........ and some have no concern over one's leanings. This is why it is important to experience teachers with all points of views.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 12:26 PM
Well, as most researchers would tell you is that anecdotal observations are important, but they should not be utilized to make broad generalizations.


Dr. G., you can't be this naive.

Look around you. Read news sources other than those you are comfortable with. Throughout the US the left has almost completely taken over not only primary & secondary schools, but especially, post-secondary. And, not only instructors but students, as well.

Just a few, non-isolated examples currently in the media: Mizzou, Berkely, Evergreen.

Why do you think there are now "safe spaces" where the horror of free speech is not heard & rooms where progressive snowflakes can "heal" with kittens, puppies & hot chocolate, among other things?

And, just because you say these things are not happening doen't mean they aren't. To wit:

Question: What is the difference between Christian seminaries and American universities? (http://www.investors.com/politics/on-the-right/leftist-domination-of-universities-creates-absurd-learning-experience/)

The left has taken over universities as well as most high schools, and like almost everything the left has influenced — education, religion, the arts and the economies of most countries — this influence has been destructive.

...

Entire books have been written providing hundreds of examples of left-wing indoctrination having replaced education in American universities. FAU is just the latest example.

Left-wing thinking still prevails in schools (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10565264/Left-wing-thinking-still-prevails-in-schools.html)

Michael Gove is right. My time studying History at school and university was dominated by Left-wing thinking.

Consciously or subconsciously, the educational elite indoctrinates a generation of young people.

The dominance of the Left is deep-rooted and for all to see, especially when it comes to the teaching of history. I write as a 21-year-old graduate of History and Politics, just six months out of university.

Don't get me wrong: I had some superb teachers and lecturers, both throughout my time at school and while studying for my degree - individuals who enthused and inspired and knew their subjects inside out.

But the majority of them were rabidly Left-wing and the subjects they chose for their students matched their own misguided outlook on society.

Oh! What a tangled progressive web we weave . . . (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447231/why-progressives-lie-leftist-agenda-requires-deception)

No one wishes to discuss candidly that universities are no longer free bastions of inquiry but are descending into would-be boot camps to train progressive shock troops.

Now, some will attack the sources above. Frankly, I could care less. How about discussing the argument?

Even something as simple & understandable as a tribute to victims of 9/11 is seen as an affront. WTF?

College Students Say Remembering 9/11 Is Offensive to Muslims (http://www.thedailybeast.com/college-students-say-remembering-911-is-offensive-to-muslims?source=twitter&via=desktop)

The everything-is-offensive brand of campus activism has struck a new low: Students at the University of Minnesota killed a proposed moment of silence for 9/11 victims due to concerns—insulting, childish concerns—that Muslim students would be offended.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 12:29 PM
This is why it is important to experience teachers with all points of views.

So, in an area dominated by leftist thinking, exactly where does one find teachers "with all points of view"? Easier said than done. It's not like there a lot of choice.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 12:36 PM
Free?! :eek:

Free tuition for 185,000 post-secondary students in Ontario: minister (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/free-tuition-for-185-000-post-secondary-students-in-ontario-minister-1.3584224)

Ontario's minister responsible for post-secondary education says 185,000 students have received free tuition this year under a new government program.
Advanced Education Minister Deb Matthews announced the figures Monday, which equal more than a third of all full-time college and university students in Ontario.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 12:45 PM
The notion of a degree is becoming pretty cheap coin these days. Offering free tuition may allow more students to partake, but it will cheapen the value of it even more. If everybody has a degree, then only what they learned will matter--this will become the new criterion for hiring.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 01:12 PM
If everybody has a degree, then only what they learned will matter--this will become the new criterion for hiring.

I'm not convinced. You heard about the massive security breach at Equifax a few days back? The Chief Security Officer (http://directorblue.blogspot.ca/2017/09/equifax-you-had-one-job.html) at Equifax? Her education consisted of a BA & MFA in musical composition.

Know what this looks like to me? Just another occurrence of hiring the best minority, rather than someone who was actually qualified for the job.

There is nothing to convince me that this type of bogus hiring practice will cease any time in the near future.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 01:40 PM
It's hard to get past hiring quotas. I meant that if everybody has a degree, then there will be other criteria for hiring.

I'm not convinced. You heard about the massive security breach at Equifax a few days back? The Chief Security Officer (http://directorblue.blogspot.ca/2017/09/equifax-you-had-one-job.html) at Equifax? Her education consisted of a BA & MFA in musical composition.

Know what this looks like to me? Just another occurrence of hiring the best minority, rather than someone who was actually qualified for the job.

There is nothing to convince me that this type of bogus hiring practice will cease any time in the near future.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:07 PM
It makes it so at the three schools with which I have direct experience and at dozens of schools where others I know have direct experience.

There are no right-leaners at the high school with which I am most familiar. One centrist.

Well, you would have to have observed and interviewed each of these teachers for this statement to be valid.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:18 PM
The notion of a degree is becoming pretty cheap coin these days. Offering free tuition may allow more students to partake, but it will cheapen the value of it even more. If everybody has a degree, then only what they learned will matter--this will become the new criterion for hiring.

Actually, we agree here. I am in favor of free tuition for qualified students. However, it is coming to the point where just like a high school diploma was the necessary basic requirement for job advancement, then it became a BA/BS/B.Ed/BSW, etc., now a master's degree is the basic requirement. In some areas, not even a doctorate is enough. When I got my doctorate from the Univ. of Georgia in literacy education, it was one of the, if not THE top university in this area (according to the International Reading Assoc.), I still had to demonstrate that I could effectively teach certain courses and be the director for Memorial's Reading Clinic and Reading Institute. I did in my initial two year appointment .......... and stayed there for 38 1/2. Sadly, the person they hired when I retired in not, in my opinion, qualified to teach most of our literacy education courses.

So, I agree it is what one has learned and what one is able to actually do with this learning that should become the criteria for hiring, regardless of the field.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:21 PM
"Dr. G., you can't be this naive.

Look around you. Read news sources other than those you are comfortable with. Throughout the US the left has almost completely taken over not only primary & secondary schools, but especially, post-secondary. And, not only instructors but students, as well."

Nope.

I do, and I still contend that isolated incidents cannot be generalized beyond a reasonable horizon. I do NOT like the trend that seems to be taking shape in SOME US universities and schools, but this is NOT to be interpreted into my saying that ALL universities and schools are headed in this direction. I am still a centrist, who is willing to see all sides of a situation and belief, before making a decision as to where I stand on a certain situation.

Paix, mon ami.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:25 PM
There is no such things as "free" tuition. Somebody is always paying for it. If not corporate & private donors via scholarships, bursaries, etc., then the taxpayer.

I am in favor of free tuition for qualified students.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:25 PM
Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:27 PM
These incidents used to be isolated. We are far beyond that. They are now commonplace.

I do, and I still contend that isolated incidents cannot be generalized beyond a reasonable horizon.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:27 PM
There is no such things as "free" tuition. Somebody is always paying for it. If not corporate & private donors via scholarships, bursaries, etc., then the taxpayer.

True. Still, if it helps qualified students obtain a meaningful college/university education, then it is worth the cost.

Have you ever seen the amount of the Harvard Endowment Fund? It could pay for rebuilding all the damaged homes in Texas due to the destruction of Hurricane Harvey. :eek:

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:32 PM
It's called a discussion, Freddie. Something that you, with all your edumacation & years of teaching, are mentally unable to conduct.

Talk about past behaviour confirming present...

Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Well, you would have to have observed and interviewed each of these teachers for this statement to be valid.

I only need to know how they teach and hear of the fear in students' voices of expressing the ideas they possess.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:42 PM
Question: Do we need all of these people attending university, college, tech school? 'Cause you just know that people who normally wouldn't sign up for one are now going to do so, on a lark. They'll hang for a semester or three with their childhood friends, or a member of their favourite sex, or their drinking buddies or because their parents told them to get some post-secondary eddication now that it's free.

Then they'll drop out and all that "free" money that could have been used on something constructive was just wasted.

You know as well as I that things earned have far more intrinsic value than those things merely given. If you truly want to go to post-secondary you will find a way to not only go, but to stay & succeed.

True. Still, if it helps qualified students obtain a meaningful college/university education, then it is worth the cost.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:43 PM
Like I said, that didn't take long. Contrarians gonna go contrary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Birds Gotta Fly, Fish Gotta Swim. :)

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:44 PM
These incidents used to be isolated. We are far beyond that. They are now commonplace.

Well, as I have told my friend, Macfury, just because you say so does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 02:49 PM
Question: Do we need all of these people attending university, college, tech school? 'Cause you just know that people who normally wouldn't sign up for one are now going to do so, on a lark. They'll hang for a semester or three with their childhood friends, or a member of their favourite sex, or their drinking buddies or because their parents told them to get some post-secondary eddication now that it's free.

Then they'll drop out and all that "free" money that could have been used on something constructive was just wasted.

You know as well as I that things earned have far more intrinsic value than those things merely given. If you truly want to go to post-secondary you will find a way to not only go, but to stay & succeed.

If they are not qualified, then they should not be allowed to enter. If they can't maintain certain standards, then they should not be allowed to stay. The State of Georgia has a good system of support, funded by the profits they make on the Georgia Lottery.

I lucked out way back when and was able to convince a bank manager to loan me $750, with no collateral, so I could go to university for one year. All I could offer was my promise to do well and to eventually pay off every penny that I would borrow. These were the days before federally guaranteed loans. I made good on my promise and paid back my four years of student loans ............. and was still able to obtain four university degrees.

So, I am in favor of giving individual students like myself the chance to succeed based on their own merits and accomplishments. Does this make me a Libertarian like my brother Macfury???

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 03:14 PM
I've provided evidence to support my position.

You've provided none.

Well, as I have told my friend, Macfury, just because you say so does not make it so. Paix, mon ami.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 03:26 PM
You know as well as I do that it doesn't take much to gain post-secondary acceptance, nor to hang around at a C level.

As far as standards are concerned, do you think that the post-secondary institutions are going to raise or lower their standards under pressure from governments to make political hay with all this "free" education money? It's not going to look very good if there are all these people gaining entrance to university & getting kicked out after first year because certain standards couldn't be met, is it?

In addition, the point is not whether they're maintaining acceptable standards. It's if they should be there in the first place & if they're going to last the long run, not a semester or three before they get bored & move on.

If they are not qualified, then they should not be allowed to enter. If they can't maintain certain standards, then they should not be allowed to stay.

Good for you. Seeing as you had to go out & get your education money rather than just get a gov't handout, don't you think that provided just a little extra kick in the pants to succeed? I certainly do. You've made my point for me.

So, I am in favor of giving individual students like myself the chance to succeed based on their own merits and accomplishments.

Doubtful. But you'd have to ask a Libertarian...

Does this make me a Libertarian like my brother Macfury???

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 03:34 PM
Ontario currently has a program designed to get failed high school students into college. They teach high school AT a college, then declare one of the courses to be a combined high school/college course. Voila, they are all in college!

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:10 PM
I've provided evidence to support my position.

You've provided none.

My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples. You may say that these examples demonstrate some POV, but that does not necessarily make it so. I make no broad generalizations since there is no way I would be able to collect reliable and valid data.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:12 PM
"You know as well as I do that it doesn't take much to gain post-secondary acceptance, nor to hang around at a C level." FeXL, this is what I like about the State of Georgia model. You have to maintain an average of B each year that you want to apply for this grant. It is not just given to a student -- each student has to earn it.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:15 PM
Ontario currently has a program designed to get failed high school students into college. They teach high school AT a college, then declare one of the courses to be a combined high school/college course. Voila, they are all in college!

Interesting, if true. I know that my son wanted to take a degree program at U of T, but could not get into the program with a 3.2 (out of 4) average. He was able to get into a similar program at Ryerson.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:17 PM
So what guarantees do we have that this sensible-sounding program will be implemented in Ontario?

Zero...

FeXL, this is what I like about the State of Georgia model. You have to maintain an average of B each year that you want to apply for this grant. It is not just given to a student -- each student has to earn it.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:20 PM
I quoted a few examples from many available. I don't know how many or what it would take to convince you otherwise.

My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples.

FeXL
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:22 PM
So, Freddie, question: Why is it that anyone who disagrees with you or offers an alternative viewpoint is a "contrarian"?

Why aren't you ever the "contrarian"?

Contrarians gonna go contrary.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:39 PM
So what guarantees do we have that this sensible-sounding program will be implemented in Ontario?

Zero...

I have no idea, mon ami. I am really not that familiar with the post secondary system in ON.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:43 PM
I quoted a few examples from many available. I don't know how many or what it would take to convince you otherwise.

My point is that one cannot make a broad generalization statement (e.g., everyone posting in this thread is a socialist) with just a limited number of anecdotal examples. Granted, I was hopeful when I read that one study that said that drinking red wine in moderation was helpful for one's heart, but it was only one study. Thus, while the finding in that one study may be accurate, it cannot be extended to all people in all situations. That is the problem with gathering and presenting reliable and valid statistics ............. there needs to be documented research, analysis and accuracy before a broad generalization might be made.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 04:45 PM
So, Freddie, question: Why is it that anyone who disagrees with you or offers an alternative viewpoint is a "contrarian"?

Why aren't you ever the "contrarian"?

I thought that Frank was a British Columbian. :D

Freddie_Biff
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:08 PM
Birds Gotta Fly, Fish Gotta Swim. :)


Indeed. Haters gonna hate. Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Snakes gonna slither. Mosquitoes gonna bite. Vultures gonna feast on dead things.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:13 PM
My point is that you have generalized based on a few examples. You may say that these examples demonstrate some POV, but that does not necessarily make it so. I make no broad generalizations since there is no way I would be able to collect reliable and valid data.


Good luck with this, Marc. My experience is that contrarians believe what they want to believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:15 PM
Good luck with this, Marc. My experience is that contrarians believe what they want to believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We shall see. Paix, mon ami.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:16 PM
I thought that Frank was a British Columbian. :D


I'm an Albertan born and raised, though I have spent many summer vacations in British Columbia. [emoji16]

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:29 PM
I'm an Albertan born and raised, though I have spent many summer vacations in British Columbia. [emoji16]

I thought so, but I needed something to rhyme with contrarian. I could have said Martian. :D

Freddie_Biff
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:52 PM
I thought so, but I needed something to rhyme with contrarian. I could have said Martian. :D


Or Bulgarian. Or Agrarian. Or Octogenarian.

Macfury
Sep 12th, 2017, 06:56 PM
Contrarian--anyone disagreeing with Freddie's ill-considered opinions.

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 08:04 PM
Or Bulgarian. Or Agrarian. Or Octogenarian.

Nova Scotian ........... Labradorian ............. Librarian ................ :D

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 08:31 PM
B.C. budget funds 3,500 teachers, homes for homeless; hikes taxes on rich | National Post (http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/b-c-budget-funds-3500-teachers-homes-for-homeless-hikes-taxes-on-rich)

Question is, where are they going to find these many teachers?

Dr.G.
Sep 12th, 2017, 08:34 PM
Breakfast program funding increase on the menu this fall - Nova Scotia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/school-breakfast-programs-budget-nourish-government-funding-1.4283734)

Another very smart move here in NS.

Beej
Sep 12th, 2017, 09:41 PM
This guy is doing some interesting research on the value of education:
Education's Selfish and Social Returns, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty (http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/educations_self.html)

A major problem is measuring what higher education accomplishes is that the people who get post secondary degrees are not a random sample. A lot of the value derives from a potentially escalating game of "signalling" whereby more resources are being put into being seen as having the right credentials, not in actually having more and more useful skills. A complex area of research.

The slideshow he offers at the link is a bit technical (in language, not math). You have been warned about clicking through.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 13th, 2017, 12:43 AM
Nova Scotian ........... Labradorian ............. Librarian ................ :D



Ooh, I like librarian. Or Aquarian. Or terrarium. Or planetarium. Or...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dr.G.
Sep 13th, 2017, 07:03 AM
Ooh, I like librarian. Or Aquarian. Or terrarium. Or planetarium. Or...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I see you more as a Summarian rastafarian, with a wife named Marion, and the two of you educate the masses with your clay tablets.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 13th, 2017, 11:51 AM
I see you more as a Summarian rastafarian, with a wife named Marion, and the two of you educate the masses with your clay tablets.


So, Larry an' me were remarking about what a clever rhymin' Simon you turned out to be. [emoji16]

FeXL
Sep 13th, 2017, 12:22 PM
Well, this thread has certainly been educating... XX)

Dr.G.
Sep 13th, 2017, 01:45 PM
So, Larry an' me were remarking about what a clever rhymin' Simon you turned out to be. [emoji16]

:lmao::clap::lmao:

screature
Sep 13th, 2017, 02:29 PM
A fine idea for a thread, Steve. I have been a teacher, in one capacity or the next, at various age/grade levels, for 40 years. I still agree with Einstein. Paix, mon ami.

I agree with this completely. Education is about training the mind how to think. Sure some facts and figures have to go along with the the program, but training the mind to think is the most important thing.

Just like a potential athlete is taught all the techniques of a given sport but if they fail to be able to perform them they will not go very far in their respective sport in competition. But that does not mean they do not have something to teach others who just by genetics have greater physical capabilities than they they do. The teachers by their physical failures can still teach those with greater genetic abilities to use their mind to overcome matter. Most likely their physical limitations developed their mental strength to try to still become competitive.

Macfury
Sep 13th, 2017, 02:40 PM
But telling students that "man is responsible for climate change" or "the life of a starfish i as important as that of a human" or "Christopher Columbus was an oppressive white racist" do not leave room to think--only for some to to react.

I agree with this completely. Education is about training the mind how to think. Sure some facts and figures have to go along with the the program, but training the mind to think is the most important thing.

wonderings
Sep 13th, 2017, 03:25 PM
What do science classrooms teach these days about gender? This is a hot button topic at the moment. Science obviously has it down pretty simply with biology but that is not what the media is telling us these days.

Macfury
Sep 13th, 2017, 03:44 PM
I have heard of a "trans-disabled" student who identifies as paraplegic and clumsily uses a wheelchair to manoeuvre hallways. The person is fully mobile and walks around whenever convenient. However, others are told that they must put up with this nonsense, which is not scientifically justifiable. Instead, they are forced to doff the scientific method and alter their own realities to suit the delusion.

What do science classrooms teach these days about gender? This is a hot button topic at the moment. Science obviously has it down pretty simply with biology but that is not what the media is telling us these days.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 13th, 2017, 04:57 PM
But telling students that "man is responsible for climate change" or "the life of a starfish i as important as that of a human" or "Christopher Columbus was an oppressive white racist" do not leave room to think--only for some to to react.



Would you even accept that man is PARTIALLY responsible for climate change? Just how absolute are your views on this?

Freddie_Biff
Sep 13th, 2017, 05:01 PM
What do science classrooms teach these days about gender? This is a hot button topic at the moment. Science obviously has it down pretty simply with biology but that is not what the media is telling us these days.



Funny thing is, gender can actually be more fluid in other species. Take earthworms for example, who have both genitalia, but still require another earthworm to mate. Or frogs, which can change gender depending on the local environment and what's needed for the species. Gender isn't exactly as cut and dry as we assume it might be. Human hermaphrodites have always existed, for example.


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wonderings
Sep 13th, 2017, 05:03 PM
Funny thing is, gender can actually be more fluid in other species. Take earthworms for example, who have both genitalia, but still require another earthworm to mate. Or frogs, which can change gender depending on the local environment and what's needed for the species. Gender isn't exactly as cut and dry as we assume it might be. Human hermaphrodites have always existed, for example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I should have been a bit more specific, what does high school science classes teach about human gender which is not fluid... biologically speaking.

Macfury
Sep 13th, 2017, 05:04 PM
Would you even accept that man is PARTIALLY responsible for climate change? Just how absolute are your views on this?

Yes. So are beavers when they build large dams, or zebras when they stomp on the veldt.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 13th, 2017, 07:29 PM
Yes. So are beavers when they build large dams, or zebras when they stomp on the veldt.



Well! Macfury makes progress.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 13th, 2017, 07:33 PM
Well I should have been a bit more specific, what does high school science classes teach about human gender which is not fluid... biologically speaking.



It may be more fluid than you think. Where do hermaphrodites fall on the male-female continuum, for example?

Macfury
Sep 14th, 2017, 12:04 AM
Well! Macfury makes progress.

That's all you get because that's the minimal effect we have on climate. And the effect of all of the ludicrous green energy projects and carbon taxes on climate is close to zero.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 14th, 2017, 01:14 AM
That's all you get because that's the minimal effect we have on climate. And the effect of all of the ludicrous green energy projects and carbon taxes on climate is close to zero.



And that's using your supersonic gut instinct I suppose. Sure do seem to be a lot of hurricanes this year though.

Macfury
Sep 14th, 2017, 01:22 AM
No, that's based on science. This has been an average year for number of hurricanes--unless you guess using your supersonic gut instinct.

And that's using your supersonic gut instinct I suppose. Sure do seem to be a lot of hurricanes this year though.

CubaMark
Sep 14th, 2017, 11:40 AM
Seems like a good place to drop this in....

Toronto man 'angry' after learning his $8,100 master's degree that required no exams or academic work is fake (http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4287347)

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4287375.1505316571!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/erwin-1.jpg

Erwin Sniedzins doesn't trust traditional universities.

So when the Toronto business management consultant found one offering a master's degree requiring no studying, exams, or academic work — for just $8,100 — Sniedzins thought it was a school sharing his unconventional approach to education.

"I don't necessarily like to pay $30,000 to get a master's when I feel I already have the knowledge," Sniedzins said in an interview with CBC Toronto.

He said the degree issued by Kings Lake University, which he found by searching the internet, is based on his previous life experience and professional accomplishments.

Sniedzins is president and CEO of Mount Knowledge, an educational software company. In his LinkedIn profile, he is described as an "Artificial Intelligence Gamification Patent Inventor, Key Note Speaker, Professor, Author."

* * *

Sniedzins repeatedly told CBC Toronto that he never suspected a degree based on life experience that required no academic work, studying or exams could be fake as it was in line with his approach to education.

(CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4287347))

FeXL
Sep 14th, 2017, 11:43 AM
What about the dearth of land-making hurricanes the last 12 years?

If you are truly interested in the topic, head over to the GHG Thread. Very good article on hurricanes recently posted there.

Sure do seem to be a lot of hurricanes this year though.

FeXL
Sep 14th, 2017, 11:45 AM
I think it's fabulous. I'll just bet he's waiting for a couple cheques from Nigeria, too. :greedy:

You can't fix stupid.

Seems like a good place to drop this in....

screature
Sep 15th, 2017, 06:03 PM
Sometimes this is true. Still, I like to give people the opportunity to make positive comments, even if they are critical comments, in all threads. It is when the comments get personal, as in "You taught 40 years????? What a dope to stick it out that long." So, we shall see who contributes to this thread and how their contributions advance the discussion about education. Paix, mon ami.

Amen!!!

screature
Sep 15th, 2017, 06:21 PM
I would say that imbuing students with a deliberately narrow range of leftist ideology now passes for "teaching students to think."

I would make that any ideology. The student needs to develop the tools to chose his own vision. Anything else is essentially doing the homework for the student.

However, today it's leftist.

Ha! When I first went to university at 16 I thought I was a conservative, then I met some pretty hot leftist young women who seemed to think I was hot as well, well one thing led to another and I bought an NDP Partyship. The first and only Partyship I have ever had (what one will do to have sex)... I think that lasted about 4 months,

Anyway it can take some time but even young people are completely capable of thinking for themselves, hormones be damned!

Dr.G.
Sep 15th, 2017, 09:28 PM
Amen!!!

Paix, mon ami. I hope that Life is treating you well these days.

Dr.G.
Sep 15th, 2017, 09:29 PM
Ha! When I first went to university at 16 I thought I was a conservative, then I met some pretty hot leftist young women who seemed to think I was hot as well, well one thing led to another and I bought an NDP Partyship. The first and only Partyship I have ever had (what one will do to have sex)... I think that lasted about 4 months,

Anyway it can take some time but even young people are completely capable of thinking for themselves, hormones be damned!

:clap::clap:

screature
Sep 16th, 2017, 01:29 PM
That's all you get because that's the minimal effect we have on climate. And the effect of all of the ludicrous green energy projects and carbon taxes on climate is close to zero.

Climate change is real. It has been the case since the beginning of time, it only makes logical sense. We are definitely live during a period of climate change. Now as to whether or not we amplify those changes has yet to be proven. But definitively we are living in a period of significant climate change.

So it could be all natural, just the way things are and have always been. But things are not as "they have always been" since the industrial and technological revolutions. I cannot see how any logical person could not see that we as a species have affected the climate of the world, if anyone knows something about quantum physics to say the least.

Now as to whether or not we are taking the correct choice to alleviate the effects of climate change for OUR OWN GOOD if highly debatable. But what what I would suggest is that we not only think about our own good when we think about such matters, but we think about the good of this beautiful blue marble, like no other that we know of, floating through space and time.

Macfury
Sep 16th, 2017, 02:25 PM
I would argue that the records show that not even the rate of climate change is significant. Many of us were born during an unusually stable climate from 1950 through 1970.

Climate change is real. It has been the case since the beginning of time, it only makes logical sense. We are definitely live during a period of climate change. Now as to whether or not we amplify those changes has yet to be proven. But definitively we are living in a period of significant climate change.

Rps
Sep 16th, 2017, 03:32 PM
So.......as this is a thread about education......how would you teach a series on climate change......and while I believe a teacher can help inform students with an opinion......when would you draw the line on implanting your beliefs . Depending on the age of your students, many might hold your beliefs as a truth......and in many areas our views are only our views and not truths. But then again a truth today tends to be a generally accepted belief. And as history has shown, often written by the winners.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 16th, 2017, 03:57 PM
Climate change is real. It has been the case since the beginning of time, it only makes logical sense. We are definitely live during a period of climate change. Now as to whether or not we amplify those changes has yet to be proven. But definitively we are living in a period of significant climate change.



So it could be all natural, just the way things are and have always been. But things are not as "they have always been" since the industrial and technological revolutions. I cannot see how any logical person could not see that we as a species have affected the climate of the world, if anyone knows something about quantum physics to say the least.



Now as to whether or not we are taking the correct choice to alleviate the effects of climate change for OUR OWN GOOD if highly debatable. But what what I would suggest is that we not only think about our own good when we think about such matters, but we think about the good of this beautiful blue marble, like no other that we know of, floating through space and time.



Good points, Steve, but permit me to make one observation. We also have to be careful of the "post hoc; ergo propter hoc" argument—which translates to "after this; therefore because of this." Many observable changes in climate do seem to have occurred since the Industrial Revolution, but that does not prove that the Industrial Revolution caused them. It could be a coincidence. More evidence that X causes Y would be helpful, as opposed to synchronicity type reasoning. However, it stands to reason just as a general principle that if we don't clean up after ourselves, there are consequences (smog, plastic particles in the ocean, for example). It would be best for us and for the planet to be good stewards, I would think.

FeXL
Sep 16th, 2017, 03:58 PM
Bring this over to the GHG thread. Let's talk about it.

But definitively we are living in a period of significant climate change.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 16th, 2017, 04:12 PM
So.......as this is a thread about education......how would you teach a series on climate change......and while I believe a teacher can help inform students with an opinion......when would you draw the line on implanting your beliefs . Depending on the age of your students, many might hold your beliefs as a truth......and in many areas our views are only our views and not truths. But then again a truth today tends to be a generally accepted belief. And as history has shown, often written by the winners.



There is never a time when a teacher is not passing on his or her beliefs to students, even involuntarily. If you try to be objective and non-opinionated, already you are passing on the belief that objectivity is better than opinion. As far as climate change goes, the best one can do is examine as many viewpoints as possible before coming to some kind of conclusion. Most often students will parrot their parents' views, like with religion or politics, and the teacher's role (I believe) is to show that there's a bigger world out there and beliefs with which they may not yet be familiar. That in itself is also a belief, but I think it's a healthy one.

Rps
Sep 16th, 2017, 04:22 PM
Frank, I think this depends on the grade you teach. At lower levels students expect " an answer", at the higher levels there is room for discussion, at the highest levels we call the discussion research. MacFury and others have commented on the political slant curricula can take...climate change being one such topic. In my day it was Louis Riel, today it's climate change, tomorrow who knows.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 16th, 2017, 04:35 PM
Frank, I think this depends on the grade you teach. At lower levels students expect " an answer", at the higher levels there is room for discussion, at the highest levels we call the discussion research. MacFury and others have commented on the political slant curricula can take...climate change being one such topic. In my day it was Louis Riel, today it's climate change, tomorrow who knows.



You're right. Was Louis Riel a traitor or a hero? Depends who's asking. I do believe, however, that the power to explore multiple viewpoints should not be limited to only higher grades. It can be simplified, of course, but children in my experience have the capacity to look at issues from more than one perspective. Heck, it might help them to understand each other better when they're older if they start looking at different points of view while they're young.

Rps
Sep 16th, 2017, 05:09 PM
I do not disagree...it is how it is presented. The recent elections might have generated a topic such as " is it better to be a business person or a politician as President or Prime Minister." this could have interesting discussions without political bias ( but the teacher would have to work at it ).

Freddie_Biff
Sep 16th, 2017, 06:17 PM
I do not disagree...it is how it is presented. The recent elections might have generated a topic such as " is it better to be a business person or a politician as President or Prime Minister." this could have interesting discussions without political bias ( but the teacher would have to work at it ).



An interesting view an an interesting question. It is really difficult to be completely unbiased, and I certainly know many teachers whose views span the entire political spectrum. It would be naive to think all teachers are lefties, for example, even if our jobs are public sector. To be an unbiased mediator of discussions can be done, but it takes great vigilance.

Dr.G.
Sep 16th, 2017, 07:53 PM
So.......as this is a thread about education......how would you teach a series on climate change......and while I believe a teacher can help inform students with an opinion......when would you draw the line on implanting your beliefs . Depending on the age of your students, many might hold your beliefs as a truth......and in many areas our views are only our views and not truths. But then again a truth today tends to be a generally accepted belief. And as history has shown, often written by the winners.

Valid points, Rp. :clap:

Dr.G.
Sep 16th, 2017, 07:54 PM
There is never a time when a teacher is not passing on his or her beliefs to students, even involuntarily. If you try to be objective and non-opinionated, already you are passing on the belief that objectivity is better than opinion. As far as climate change goes, the best one can do is examine as many viewpoints as possible before coming to some kind of conclusion. Most often students will parrot their parents' views, like with religion or politics, and the teacher's role (I believe) is to show that there's a bigger world out there and beliefs with which they may not yet be familiar. That in itself is also a belief, but I think it's a healthy one.

Also valid points, Frank.

Dr.G.
Sep 16th, 2017, 07:55 PM
I do not disagree...it is how it is presented. The recent elections might have generated a topic such as " is it better to be a business person or a politician as President or Prime Minister." this could have interesting discussions without political bias ( but the teacher would have to work at it ).

More valid points.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 17th, 2017, 03:24 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170917/f5dd2539c665592f782581dd20d3cd34.jpg

Dr.G.
Sep 17th, 2017, 05:00 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170917/f5dd2539c665592f782581dd20d3cd34.jpg

Have you seen the process of the new "new math"? I have tried to understand the process, but I am lost.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 17th, 2017, 05:07 PM
Have you seen the process of the new "new math"? I have tried to understand the process, but I am lost.


You mean "discovery math"? Yeah, all I've discovered is that there were a lot of people before me who discovered and shared some pretty great shortcuts. I don't think I'd be coming up with a quadratic equation on my own.

Dr.G.
Sep 17th, 2017, 05:32 PM
You mean "discovery math"? Yeah, all I've discovered is that there were a lot of people before me who discovered and shared some pretty great shortcuts. I don't think I'd be coming up with a quadratic equation on my own.

Yes, "discovery math" is now considered the new "new math". I never could do a quadratic equation in algebra, but I am able to do mental math without pencil or paper ............. or a calculator.

screature
Sep 19th, 2017, 02:23 PM
The issue that I see is not ideology, I mean we all live one whether we recognise it or not, but being able to think about issues. Unfortunately from lower grades to high school students are essentially told to " listen" and when they enter college or university are expected to think......and it is a brave teacher who challenges that model. We also need to focus on core competencies...these will never change and provide a framework from which students can develop critical thinking skills to be used their entire life.

I totally agree Rps and even though I went to a Catholic High School believe I was provided that. There were only two things Catholic about the school the first was that there was a priest on staff and you could could to a mass every day at lunch time, I went a few times, it wasn't bad, aside from the Christ and God stuff it was just basic moral and ethical instruction, there certainly was no "mind control" or anything like that about it.

The second was Religion class which you could opt out of for another course in your graduating year. It was actually very good, lots of debate but little to no indoctrination. Again it was basically about morals, ethics and philosophy, not even Christianity per say.

screature
Sep 19th, 2017, 03:53 PM
It makes it so at the three schools with which I have direct experience and at dozens of schools where others I know have direct experience.

Ok so you have direct experience with 3 schools. The rest of your post is just pure hearsay.

I will say this though, I think most teachers tend to lean to to the left because they want to help other people. People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.

So education is not a priority of those on the right because there is not much money in it until you get to be a professor and publish inflammatory and highly debatable words, then as an academic you can make some money. Go on a speaking tour, get banned by some institutions and that makes you all the the more news worthy which is good for your bottom line in the end, great free publicity.

This is what I have seen, time and time again.

FeXL
Sep 19th, 2017, 04:25 PM
This is the most prejudicial piece of crap I've ever seen you post on these boards.

If that's all you've seen it's time for you to get out of the big city.

Get a grip.

People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.

So education is not a priority of those on the right because there is not much money in it until you get to be a professor and publish inflammatory and highly debatable words, then as an academic you can make some money. Go on a speaking tour, get banned by some institutions and that makes you all the the more news worthy which is good for your bottom line in the end, great free publicity.

This is what I have seen, time and time again.

Macfury
Sep 19th, 2017, 04:54 PM
I think that's nonsense. They leaned to the left because they always leaned to the left and were hired by government entities who also leaned to the left in hiring and promotion. Eventually, they filter out dissent.

Ok so you have direct experience with 3 schools. The rest of your post is just pure hearsay.

I will say this though, I think most teachers tend to lean to to the left because they want to help other people. People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.

So education is not a priority of those on the right because there is not much money in it until you get to be a professor and publish inflammatory and highly debatable words, then as an academic you can make some money. Go on a speaking tour, get banned by some institutions and that makes you all the the more news worthy which is good for your bottom line in the end, great free publicity.

This is what I have seen, time and time again.

wonderings
Sep 19th, 2017, 05:07 PM
I will say this though, I think most teachers tend to lean to to the left because they want to help other people. People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.



So what you are saying is the left is good and the right is evil?

How about this, the right is tired of mismanegment costing billions of dollars that could actually be used to help people. Think how much more good could be done if money was handled properly and not squandered away?

How many teachers are willing to take a pay cut in order to hire more teachers so they can have the smaller class rooms they want? There is greed on both sides, none are clean of it. You can only spend so much, it is pretty basic, if you are spending more then is coming in you are going to have problems. Now if us tax payers were willing to pay more for these services that would be great, but I am guessing if you polled the country you would find the majority do not want higher taxes.

screature
Sep 21st, 2017, 04:20 PM
This is the most prejudicial piece of crap I've ever seen you post on these boards.

If that's all you've seen it's time for you to get out of the big city.

Get a grip.

It not prejudicial at all, it is observational. There are more liberal teachers than conservative teachers especially as you go up the educational ladder, in this country at least. Maybe you should go to the big cities where their are more school's and universities than there are in small back waters and therefore more teachers on which to make such an observation.

Get a grip on what exactly, the facts, I think I have a pretty good grip on them already.

Dr.G.
Sep 21st, 2017, 04:55 PM
It not prejudicial at all, it is observational. There are more liberal teachers than conservative teachers especially as you go up the educational ladder, in this country at least. Maybe you should go to the big cities where their are more school's and universities than there are in small back waters and therefore more teachers on which to make such an observation.

Get a grip on what exactly, the facts, I think I have a pretty good grip on them already.

A valid point, screature. In the final analysis, there is no actual way to know the political leanings of every teacher in a country unless you poll all of these teachers. Since there is no such research, conclusions that teachers are mainly "right wing" or "left wing" or "moderates" is sheer speculation. Paix, mon ami.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 22nd, 2017, 03:11 AM
A valid point, screature. In the final analysis, there is no actual way to know the political leanings of every teacher in a country unless you poll all of these teachers. Since there is no such research, conclusions that teachers are mainly "right wing" or "left wing" or "moderates" is sheer speculation. Paix, mon ami.


Not to mention irrelevant. My doctor my be obese himself but that does not mean he's going to recommend obesity as a healthy lifestyle. My mechanic may have a preference for Toyota but he's still going to do his best to repair my GM product. Certain clueless folks on these boards seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively. These people have a rather shallow understanding of people.

Macfury
Sep 22nd, 2017, 09:12 AM
It isn't impossible--they just see no reason to do it.

...seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively.

Dr.G.
Sep 22nd, 2017, 09:58 AM
Not to mention irrelevant. My doctor my be obese himself but that does not mean he's going to recommend obesity as a healthy lifestyle. My mechanic may have a preference for Toyota but he's still going to do his best to repair my GM product. Certain clueless folks on these boards seem to think it is impossible for a teacher to have a Progressive mindset and still teach the curriculum objectively. These people have a rather shallow understanding of people.

Good point, Frank. This is why I wish folks here in ehMacLand, including yours truly, would just state their opinions in a reasonable and friendly manner. Opinions are not fact, and if I think that US made cars are better than those made abroad, that is my opinion. The Honda Civic may be the #1 selling car in Canada last year, which is backed by fact, but I feel that a Toyota product is a better car for me, which is my opinion.

I just wish that there would be an end to the constant back and forth bickering found in many threads here in ehMacLand. We shall see if I get my wish. Paix, mon ami.

Macfury
Sep 22nd, 2017, 11:02 AM
You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.

Dr.G.
Sep 22nd, 2017, 11:11 AM
You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.

I am not looking for "matters" to be "settled" in my favor. I would just like opinions to be considered, then accepted or rejected as one's opinion, without the personal attacks. Your posting is an example, in my opinion, of a reasonable response. I would have said "You may not get your wish" rather than to use the words "will not", but that is a matter of semantics. While you and I don't agree many times on various issues, at least you are reasonable in your disagreements with me. Paix, mon ami.

FeXL
Sep 22nd, 2017, 03:08 PM
Well, screature, that's your opinion & it's worth every bit it took to put it onscreen...

Get a grip on what exactly, the facts, I think I have a pretty good grip on them already.

Rps
Sep 23rd, 2017, 02:34 PM
It isn't impossible--they just see no reason to do it.

Well, I teach....so which way do I “ lean”, left or right?

Macfury
Sep 23rd, 2017, 03:51 PM
Well, I teach....so which way do I “ lean”, left or right?

Based on what I've seen here, I would put you right down the middle. Left on some, right on others.

FeXL
Sep 23rd, 2017, 04:02 PM
Just as good a thread as any...

Dallas School Board Designates Founding Fathers As Having "Confederate Links" (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-21/dallas-school-board-designates-founding-fathers-having-confederate-links)

The Dallas Independent School District is in damage control mode after an internal school board list was obtained by local press which shows schools under consideration for name changes due to possible "connections with slavery or the Confederacy." News of the list, obtained by the Dallas Morning News early this week, caused outrage for the fact that it includes Texas revolutionaries and founders such as Sam Houston, James Bowie and William Travis, as well as Dallas pioneers James Gaston and William Brown Miller. It further names other early American figures who very obviously lived long before the existence of the Confederacy such as U.S. presidents Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and, inexplicably, Ben Franklin.

No bias & definitely not politically correct. Nope...

Shtoopid, shtoopid, shtoopid.

Rps
Sep 23rd, 2017, 04:15 PM
Based on what I've seen here, I would put you right down the middle. Left on some, right on others.

And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.

Dr.G.
Sep 23rd, 2017, 06:12 PM
And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.

:clap::clap::clap: Well said, mon ami. PF would be proud. Paix.

Macfury
Sep 23rd, 2017, 10:10 PM
I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.


And I think you will find that with many people, teachers included....it’s the issues that count....and, yes, some issues I may be left leaning others I may be right leaning. You can not generalise and say all teachers are left or right. So again, we are discussing the politics of education via association. A little Paulo Freire would go well now I think.

Dr.G.
Sep 24th, 2017, 07:29 AM
I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.

I would think that someone who has a "basis in logical conservatism" would realize that what he experienced/observed cannot be extrapolated to cover ALL classrooms in North America. Use your logic, mon ami. What you viewed and experienced might have been this way, so your observations are correct. And maybe these observations were of "leftist scoped classes", but it is only your opinion that this is what it was/is like in all other classrooms. Paix.

Rps
Sep 24th, 2017, 11:44 AM
I'm not interested in what they think as much as what they teach. I have personally viewed leftist scoped classes and instruction at the vast majority of classes with students I know. I find it unlikely that anyone who has a basis in logical conservatism would suddenly lose their mind and then spout leftist dogma in class, but maybe you could convince me that this is how some people operate.

Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?

Dr.G.
Sep 24th, 2017, 11:46 AM
Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Beej
Sep 24th, 2017, 12:13 PM
Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?

I agree with the idea of public healthcare and education, but the sensitivity of educators to the claim of being broadly left wing is odd. How many generalizations have you glossed over before focusing on this topic?

Rps
Sep 24th, 2017, 12:21 PM
Beej, I think the heart of this current discussion is all about generalisations. The premise stated above was that educators have a left bias and inculcate that bias in their classes.......which I personally believe is blatantly wrong. And, again, it is difficult to discuss education without introducing politics......I had hoped this thread would take a different bent.

Beej
Sep 24th, 2017, 12:33 PM
I had hoped this thread would take a different bent.

It didn't. The norm is conversational debate including logical flaws and short cuts. For some reason this topic resulted in the request for strict logical standards. That is notable.

Macfury
Sep 24th, 2017, 01:07 PM
In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/07/05/new-analysis-new-england-colleges-responsible-left-leaning-professoriate

Dr.G.
Sep 24th, 2017, 01:08 PM
I agree with the idea of public healthcare and education, but the sensitivity of educators to the claim of being broadly left wing is odd. How many generalizations have you glossed over before focusing on this topic?

A valid point, Beej.

Macfury
Sep 24th, 2017, 01:08 PM
Yes, in the manner applied and at the political level it's administered, it's leftist dogma that's infiltrated mainstream culture.

Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?

Rps
Sep 24th, 2017, 01:11 PM
In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/07/05/new-analysis-new-england-colleges-responsible-left-leaning-professoriate

Hell! At one time we were considered down right Communist compared to the U.S.

Rps
Sep 24th, 2017, 01:14 PM
Yes, in the manner applied and at the political level it's administered, it's leftist dogma that's infiltrated mainstream culture.

There is a left, right, and centre in everything...even Libertarianism. Which raises an interesting question ( and forgive the teacher in me here ) “Does the dogma create the culture or does the culture create the dogma”. Discuss.....

Macfury
Sep 24th, 2017, 01:22 PM
Dogma reiterated infiltrates culture. For example, I can see dogma about child molesters as sensitive victims infiltrating society--already much more prevalent in the UK.

There is a left, right, and centre in everything...even Libertarianism. Which raises an interesting question ( and forgive the teacher in me here ) “Does the dogma create the culture or does the culture create the dogma”. Discuss.....

Rps
Sep 24th, 2017, 01:34 PM
Dogma reiterated infiltrates culture. For example, I can see dogma about child molesters as sensitive victims infiltrating society--already much more prevalent in the UK.

Great choice of subject MacFury, I will be disappointed if there isn’t a lot of discussion now....but dogma, in my mind, is driven by authority and is presented as a truth. So, who in authority (and I think this is the crux of your point as to what authority is ) states this as a truth? The trouble with truth is, at least to me, is that truth is a collection of generally accepted consensus. Truth is not an absolute in today’s world....and politically that is almost a certainty, it is more of a belief.

screature
Sep 24th, 2017, 02:56 PM
pass.

Rps
Sep 24th, 2017, 03:04 PM
pass.

Screature, both you and I know MacFury is button pushing, but the point that dogma inflitrates curricula is a valid question......

screature
Sep 24th, 2017, 04:01 PM
Good point, Frank. This is why I wish folks here in ehMacLand, including yours truly, would just state their opinions in a reasonable and friendly manner. Opinions are not fact, and if I think that US made cars are better than those made abroad, that is my opinion. The Honda Civic may be the #1 selling car in Canada last year, which is backed by fact, but I feel that a Toyota product is a better car for me, which is my opinion.

I just wish that there would be an end to the constant back and forth bickering found in many threads here in ehMacLand. We shall see if I get my wish. Paix, mon ami.

You will not get your wish, Dr. G. Few matters will be permanently settled in your favour.

I am not looking for "matters" to be "settled" in my favor. I would just like opinions to be considered, then accepted or rejected as one's opinion, without the personal attacks. Your posting is an example, in my opinion, of a reasonable response. I would have said "You may not get your wish" rather than to use the words "will not", but that is a matter of semantics. While you and I don't agree many times on various issues, at least you are reasonable in your disagreements with me. Paix, mon ami.

In favour of what? One's opinion? Dr.G. never implied that. All he postulated was a place where one could express their opinion without being personally castigated for it, cut and dry. He never mentioned anything about, "permanently settled in your favour". What is that supposed to mean? Dr.G. has expressed himself, but, based on your post and since this is a public forum, I felt the need to comment.

All he is asking for is a more polite and diplomatic discourse, free of ad hominem attacks. Personally I think that is doable or at least for members to try and stifle themselves sometimes when it comes personally attacking another member... In the Trump era that seems unlikely, but one can only hope.

screature
Sep 24th, 2017, 04:07 PM
Screature, both you and I know MacFury is button pushing, but the point that dogma inflitrates curricula is a valid question......

Yeah, I had a response post all triggered up and ready to go... I actually posted it but on second thought made it a pass.

Rps
Sep 24th, 2017, 04:19 PM
Yeah, I had a response post all triggered up and ready to go... I actually posted it but on second thought made it a pass.

Yes, but it is interesting about the reply on dogma, it has all the current political trappings. First take an emotionally charged topic, frame it as if a movement is supporting a contention, then place it in a distant area that by doing so somehow is a threat to “us”, all using unnamed sources as having the power to elicit an undesirable social change.....if this were the American Political Thread I would say it was right out of Trump’s playbook.

But back to the root ...the contention that a left driven authority is using its dogma to influence curricula......so the driver, which was not really answered, does dogma drive society or does society drive dogma remains a fair point to debate, all trolling aside. This “Hidden Curriculum” can not be cast aside....but is it generational or constantly evolving? That said, what play does social media have on our view of education?

Freddie_Biff
Sep 24th, 2017, 04:23 PM
Leftist dogma is an interesting phrase. At one time Universal Healthcare, Social Insurance, Unemployed Insurance, and a host of others were considered Leftist, along with universal education for our youth, Health and Safety ...you get the drill. So our current socio-cultural environment, which for the most part is generally accepted as what makes the fabric of being Canadian.....that leftist dogma?


He has a hard time accepting that most Canadians gladly embrace some of the ideals of "the left" if it makes for better lives.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

FeXL
Sep 24th, 2017, 04:27 PM
This coming from the guy who posted this:

People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.

Serious? You castigate a broad swath of the population in one fell swoop & expect "a more polite and diplomatic discourse"?

Screw you.

All he is asking for is a more polite and diplomatic discourse, free of ad hominem attacks. Personally I think that is doable...

Freddie_Biff
Sep 24th, 2017, 04:31 PM
And another mature reply from FeXL, ladies and gentlemen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

screature
Sep 24th, 2017, 04:42 PM
In the US, political affiliation is easier to track. In 2014, this study found that nationally, colleges and universities had a six to one ratio of liberal to conservative professors. In New England, the figure was 28 to one. If anything, Canada is culturally to the left of the US.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/07/05/new-analysis-new-england-colleges-responsible-left-leaning-professoriate

Based on what? Your opinion?

But yes I agree, Canada is culturally left to the US. Even though I detest JT and most of his Cabinet, they are are a Helluva lot better than anyone in Trump's circus of puppets.

The thing that you do not seem to understand MF is that politics is not black and white.

Due to you being locked into a certain form of political doctrine it seems you do not get the bigger picture. I say this with no word of exaggeration, if you support Donald Trump and his policies or lack there of, you support bringing the world write large onto to brink of WWIII. This is no hyperbole on my part. Read!!!

screature
Sep 24th, 2017, 04:48 PM
This coming from the guy who posted this:



Serious? You castigate a broad swath of the population in one fell swoop & expect "a more polite and diplomatic discourse"?

Screw you.


You just proved my point.

It was my stated opinion at the time and as expected you added ad an hominem attack. 'Nough said. I could say more but decency dictates that I don't.

Beej
Sep 24th, 2017, 05:14 PM
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/07/05/new-analysis-new-england-colleges-responsible-left-leaning-professoriate

Thanks for the link. Good to see some data offered in this discussion.

Macfury
Sep 24th, 2017, 06:21 PM
Great choice of subject MacFury, I will be disappointed if there isn’t a lot of discussion now....but dogma, in my mind, is driven by authority and is presented as a truth. So, who in authority (and I think this is the crux of your point as to what authority is ) states this as a truth? The trouble with truth is, at least to me, is that truth is a collection of generally accepted consensus. Truth is not an absolute in today’s world....and politically that is almost a certainty, it is more of a belief.

I'm seeing media reports in the UK softening up on pedophelia. For example, a strict division between pedophiles who simply get off on watching children being molested, or on depictions of children being molested. The argument goes that they're avoiding attacks on children by accessing child pornography--so lets go easy on child pornography. Then the notion that perhaps pedophilia harms some people, but not all people. That many children grow up to find it was a positive experience for them.

The first line of infiltration is media attempting to normalize the behaviour, so that pedophiles are not absolutely bad, pedophilia is not absolutely wrong and the experiences of children who are molested are not 100% negative. When media looks for authority in matter such as this, it's usually an academic or psychiatrist.

Macfury
Sep 24th, 2017, 06:26 PM
Yes, based on my opinion. Socialized medicine and other government takeovers of private services.

I support Trump nominally, not fully. Only some of his policies are good. But I did not support any of Hillary Clinton's policies.

Based on what? Your opinion?

But yes I agree, Canada is culturally left to the US. Even though I detest JT and most of his Cabinet, they are are a Helluva lot better than anyone in Trump's circus of puppets.

The thing that you do not seem to understand MF is that politics is not black and white.

Due to you being locked into a certain form of political doctrine it seems you do not get the bigger picture. I say this with no word of exaggeration, if you support Donald Trump and his policies or lack there of, you support bringing the world write large onto to brink of WWIII. This is no hyperbole on my part. Read!!!

Rps
Sep 24th, 2017, 07:17 PM
I'm seeing media reports in the UK softening up on pedophelia. For example, a strict division between pedophiles who simply get off on watching children being molested, or on depictions of children being molested. The argument goes that they're avoiding attacks on children by accessing child pornography--so lets go easy on child pornography. Then the notion that perhaps pedophilia harms some people, but not all people. That many children grow up to find it was a positive experience for them.

The first line of infiltration is media attempting to normalize the behaviour, so that pedophiles are not absolutely bad, pedophilia is not absolutely wrong and the experiences of children who are molested are not 100% negative. When media looks for authority in matter such as this, it's usually an academic or psychiatrist.

I have read about that as well, but I believe the notion is child pornography lessens the chance of actual child abuse by some of the population......personally I believe pornography is the “ gateway drug”, but back to your reply which was on dogma, and you nicely avoided. Does dogma inform or influence a society or does the society influence and inform dogma. As I indicated above, dogma presumes an authority that presents a view as a truth, your example hardly would count as an item held by authority, or as a truth.......it might be an outlier opinion though......look at climate change, is it a true truth or a dogma truth?

In education, we deal with both. The curricula is determined by the government...so when a politicalised subject matter is to be taught, is it dogma or a truth? My answer to that is based on two things, time and social change. Again I hate to bring up our old friend Louis Riel but, at my age, he fits.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 24th, 2017, 11:59 PM
I'm seeing media reports in the UK softening up on pedophelia. For example, a strict division between pedophiles who simply get off on watching children being molested, or on depictions of children being molested. The argument goes that they're avoiding attacks on children by accessing child pornography--so lets go easy on child pornography. Then the notion that perhaps pedophilia harms some people, but not all people. That many children grow up to find it was a positive experience for them.



The first line of infiltration is media attempting to normalize the behaviour, so that pedophiles are not absolutely bad, pedophilia is not absolutely wrong and the experiences of children who are molested are not 100% negative. When media looks for authority in matter such as this, it's usually an academic or psychiatrist.



What makes you think there are not pedophiles who lean to the right? I'd start with Trump himself and his fists to the dressing rooms of teenage girls in the Miss Universes pageants.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 25th, 2017, 12:03 AM
I have read about that as well, but I believe the notion is child pornography lessens the chance of actual child abuse by some of the population......personally I believe pornography is the “ gateway drug”, but back to your reply which was on dogma, and you nicely avoided. Does dogma inform or influence a society or does the society influence and inform dogma. As I indicated above, dogma presumes an authority that presents a view as a truth, your example hardly would count as an item held by authority, or as a truth.......it might be an outlier opinion though......look at climate change, is it a true truth or a dogma truth?



In education, we deal with both. The curricula is determined by the government...so when a politicalised subject matter is to be taught, is it dogma or a truth? My answer to that is based on two things, time and social change. Again I hate to bring up our old friend Louis Riel but, at my age, he fits.


Louis Riel is a classic example of how history is written by the victors. Another pertains to who won. The battle of the Plains of Abraham. The answer largely depends on whether you sympathize with the French or the English. If one teaches history with any sort of objectivity, there are many on the right who will accuse the teacher of being leftist.

Macfury
Sep 25th, 2017, 01:52 AM
Your comment is so far off the mark, it's clear you either failed to read the original post or simply don't understand it.

What makes you think there are not pedophiles who lean to the right? I'd start with Trump himself and his fists to the dressing rooms of teenage girls in the Miss Universes pageants.

Macfury
Sep 25th, 2017, 01:54 AM
What does England vs. France have to do with left or righ? Might be better if you take a long nap before returning to the forum,

Louis Riel is a classic example of how history is written by the victors. Another pertains to who won. The battle of the Plains of Abraham. The answer largely depends on whether you sympathize with the French or the English. If one teaches history with any sort of objectivity, there are many on the right who will accuse the teacher of being leftist.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 25th, 2017, 03:04 AM
What does England vs. France have to do with left or righ? Might be better if you take a long nap before returning to the forum,



When did I claim this post was about left vs. right? It is about history and victors and who gets to say what happened. Clearly you misunderstood the original post.

Macfury
Sep 25th, 2017, 08:47 AM
When did I claim this post was about left vs. right? It is about history and victors and who gets to say what happened. Clearly you misunderstood the original post.

The fact that you finished the post with:

If one teaches history with any sort of objectivity, there are many on the right who will accuse the teacher of being leftist.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 25th, 2017, 10:08 AM
The fact that you finished the post with:



That's a different post, but for the sake of argument, was it not you who's been claiming a leftist slant in the school system?

Macfury
Sep 25th, 2017, 10:19 AM
It's the same post.

A leftist slant would not claim that the French won the Battle of the Plains of Abraham. They' be pissing and moaning that the British victory was somehow unfair or unearned.

That's a different post, but for the sake of argument, was it not you who's been claiming a leftist slant in the school system?

FeXL
Sep 25th, 2017, 11:49 AM
I proved what? That if someone says enough stupid things he'll get a response from the target market?

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You win. Your mother would be proud.

You just proved my point.

If you had a shred of decency in the first place you would have written off the entire right as a bunch of uncharitable louts in the first place.

It was my stated opinion at the time and as expected you added ad an hominem attack. 'Nough said. I could say more but decency dictates that I don't.

FeXL
Sep 25th, 2017, 11:52 AM
...look at climate change, is it a true truth or a dogma truth?

What part of it?

FeXL
Sep 25th, 2017, 12:32 PM
There's been a lot of talk about opinions on the boards lately. I'd like to wade into the fray with my opinion on opinions.

First off, I recognize two types of opinions: Informed & uninformed.

Second, I recognize the right of anybody to be able to offer an opinion, no matter how daft.

Third, I have no issues with a differing opinion, as long as it can be defended.

However, that's where I draw the line. Trite statements like, "Rachel's smart! She's 50" are stupid but basically harmless. Statements like, "People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves" are not only hurtful to the right en masse but are born of true ignorance of the topic.

Both of the above I would place in the uninformed category, unqualified opinions and both can be easily dealt with. Neither of them are defendable, neither carry any weight and neither will add to one's credibility. In the eyes of many, repeating such uninformed opinions reduce one's credibility.

Statements like, "Merkle's popularity has dropped 25% since the last election" is an example of an informed, a qualified opinion.

It can be easily defended by comparing the number of votes between the two elections. It carries weight because of its factual basis & the continued use thereof will increase one's credibility.

Why do I bring up credibility?

One of the few currencies on these boards (any boards?) realistically worth anything is credibility. You defend (or at least attempt to defend) your position, your opinion, with facts, you've earned a certain amount of credibility and along with it, a certain amount of respect.

You can't/don't/won't, you have none of either.

screature
Sep 25th, 2017, 02:54 PM
Yes, but it is interesting about the reply on dogma, it has all the current political trappings. First take an emotionally charged topic, frame it as if a movement is supporting a contention, then place it in a distant area that by doing so somehow is a threat to “us”, all using unnamed sources as having the power to elicit an undesirable social change.....if this were the American Political Thread I would say it was right out of Trump’s playbook.

I see what you are getting at, unfortunately all things become political depending on who is speaking. Somethings can just be about practicality, general knowledge and introducing young people to the vast array of ideas are out there.

But back to the root ...the contention that a left driven authority is using its dogma to influence curricula......so the driver, which was not really answered, does dogma drive society or does society drive dogma remains a fair point to debate, all trolling aside. This “Hidden Curriculum” can not be cast aside....but is it generational or constantly evolving? That said, what play does social media have on our view of education?

Now that is a truly interesting question! I think it is somewhat like yin and yang. It can be good and it can be bad it is all a matter of how it is used and understood. Obviously there is a lot more to it than that, but it is a starting point.

screature
Sep 25th, 2017, 02:59 PM
There's been a lot of talk about opinions on the boards lately. I'd like to wade into the fray with my opinion on opinions.

First off, I recognize two types of opinions: Informed & uninformed.

Second, I recognize the right of anybody to be able to offer an opinion, no matter how daft.

Third, I have no issues with a differing opinion, as long as it can be defended.

However, that's where I draw the line. Trite statements like, "Rachel's smart! She's 50" are stupid but basically harmless. Statements like, "People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves" are not only hurtful to the right en masse but are born of true ignorance of the topic.

Both of the above I would place in the uninformed category, unqualified opinions and both can be easily dealt with. Neither of them are defendable, neither carry any weight and neither will add to one's credibility. In the eyes of many, repeating such uninformed opinions reduce one's credibility.

Statements like, "Merkle's popularity has dropped 25% since the last election" is an example of an informed, a qualified opinion.

It can be easily defended by comparing the number of votes between the two elections. It carries weight because of its factual basis & the continued use thereof will increase one's credibility.

Why do I bring up credibility?

One of the few currencies on these boards (any boards?) realistically worth anything is credibility. You defend (or at least attempt to defend) your position, your opinion, with facts, you've earned a certain amount of credibility and along with it, a certain amount of respect.

You can't/don't/won't, you have none of either.

Who exactly are you talking to and who made you the judge, jury and executioner?

FeXL
Sep 25th, 2017, 04:20 PM
Everybody & nobody.

Who exactly are you talking to...

Who made you the judge, jury and executioner of the right?

...who made you the judge, jury and executioner?

screature
Sep 25th, 2017, 04:41 PM
Everybody & nobody.



Who made you the judge, jury and executioner of the right?

Lest you forget, I support whoever seems reasonable to me. Last time it was someone on the right. But now I am critical of their policies. See politics to me is not like having a favorite team in whatever your sport of preference is, it is a lot more complicated than that.

I am not a Conservative, Liberal, NDP, PQ or another anachronism or ism you may choose. I am who I am and do not and will not be defined upon who I vote for in a given election or by the ideas that I hold, because they cross many boundaries. I define myself, no one else does, they may have their opinions, but they are just that, opinions.

Capiche?

Freddie_Biff
Sep 25th, 2017, 05:25 PM
Lest you forget, I support whoever seems reasonable to me. Last time it was someone on the right. But now I am critical of their policies. See politics to me is not like having a favorite team in whatever your sport of preference is, it is a lot more complicated than that.



I am not a Conservative, Liberal, NDP, PQ or another anachronism or ism you may choose. I am who I am and do not and will not be defined upon who I vote for in a given election or by the ideas that I hold, because they cross many boundaries. I define myself, no one else does, they may have their opinions, but they are just that, opinions.



Capiche?



Well said, Steve. The desire to pigeonhole people by something they said months or years ago is really quite silly. It is also possible to entertain multiple points of view at the same time.

Rps
Sep 25th, 2017, 05:33 PM
Hi Steve, the issue I see with social media is might is right, which is not the same as truth. I see this all the time and it is sad really.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 25th, 2017, 06:30 PM
Hi Steve, the issue I see with social media is might is right, which is not the same as truth. I see this all the time and it is sad really.


Like reality game shows, singing contests, and elections, popularity seems to dictate what's "the truth" too often today. If enough people declare something to be the truth, why then it must be the truth. Burn Dixie Chicks records for suggesting they were ashamed of Pres. Bush for starting a war using WMD's as a justification. You almost see the same thing happening today with North Korea. If enough people believe it, it must be true!

Rps
Sep 25th, 2017, 06:42 PM
However Frank, we do know that North Korea is after an atomic arsenal....which was different than Iraq’s WMD.....which were never found. Getting back to curricula.....climate change would be a more current and valid issue in this case. Twitter, Instagram, FB all work up postings and doctored photographs...both pro and con....certainly will impact a student’s view and possibly be at variance to the instructor. Ranters chew up bandwidth and if they resonate gain followers which increase the likelihood that those rants become accepted as truth.....

eMacMan
Sep 25th, 2017, 07:25 PM
However Frank, we do know that North Korea is after an atomic arsenal....which was different than Iraq’s WMD.....which were never found. Getting back to curricula.....climate change would be a more current and valid issue in this case. Twitter, Instagram, FB all work up postings and doctored photographs...both pro and con....certainly will impact a student’s view and possibly be at variance to the instructor. Ranters chew up bandwidth and if they resonate gain followers which increase the likelihood that those rants become accepted as truth.....

Still if you look at the history in the area and recent US actions in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen then North Korea could well believe their only hope of survival is to acquire nuclear weapons and be prepared to use them.

We like to forget the terrible destruction that North (and South) Korea suffered during the Korean war. We ignore that the Korean cease fire has held for over 60 years. We also forget the news about North Korea comes from the very same sources that lied through their teeth about Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Bengazi.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 25th, 2017, 07:26 PM
However Frank, we do know that North Korea is after an atomic arsenal....which was different than Iraq’s WMD.....which were never found. Getting back to curricula.....climate change would be a more current and valid issue in this case. Twitter, Instagram, FB all work up postings and doctored photographs...both pro and con....certainly will impact a student’s view and possibly be at variance to the instructor. Ranters chew up bandwidth and if they resonate gain followers which increase the likelihood that those rants become accepted as truth.....



Good examples. And with the hue and cry on both sides of the political spectrum about "fake news" today, including on this forum, it's difficult to know whom to trust anymore. We believe what we want to believe, or as Macfury calls it, confirmation bias. That is one thing I will agree with him about.

Dr.G.
Sep 25th, 2017, 07:44 PM
"I define myself, no one else does, they may have their opinions, but they are just that, opinions." An excellent point, Steve. Paix, mon ami.

Dr.G.
Sep 25th, 2017, 07:47 PM
Well said, Steve. The desire to pigeonhole people by something they said months or years ago is really quite silly. It is also possible to entertain multiple points of view at the same time.

A valid point, Rp. Personally, I am very liberal/progressive on most social issues, but have sided with fiscal conservatives on issues that I feel waste taxpayer's money.

FeXL
Sep 25th, 2017, 08:00 PM
Jeezuz... (for the third time)

This is what I'm talking about:

People on the right, in general, seem to just want to help themselves.

Now, same question: Who made you the judge, jury and executioner of the right?

Lest you forget...blah, blah-blah, blah, blah-blah-blah

FeXL
Sep 25th, 2017, 08:01 PM
It's actually pretty easy.

...it's difficult to know whom to trust anymore.

CubaMark
Sep 25th, 2017, 09:03 PM
A valid point, Rp. Personally, I am very liberal/progressive on most social issues, but have sided with fiscal conservatives on issues that I feel waste taxpayer's money.

With all due respect, it may be commonplace to do so, but this accusation of the Left as a bunch of free-wheeling spenders on whatever strikes their fancy is a complete fallacy. Conservative governments have been just as guilty of throwing bad money after good when the purpose suits them. The insane —and long ago discredited— ideology that cutting taxes - economic growth is a fine example. Cutting taxes in Canada has only resulted in higher profits and return to shareholders, as the economic growth that should conceivably result from freed-up cash for investment is, oddly enough, rarely invested. Left governments also are concerned for the value of taxpayer's money - and you can point to NDP balanced / surplus budgets as evidence as well as you can certain Conservative and Liberal budgets.

Interestingly, Conservative and some Liberal governments tend to immediately generate surpluses by cutting taxes while also cutting government spending on social programmes, education, health and infrastructure. But after a few years, this comes back to bite them in the ass as under-investment in human beings is not a rapidly elastic economic indicator. Left governments are often elected following economic disaster (see Nova Scotia's NDP election in 2009, following two PC governments) which they then were forced to address by following many of the Right-wing economic playbook (cutting gov't spending and some social services) in order to get the books back in some kind of order. That NDP government made a lot of boneheaded moves ("governed like Liberals" was the frequent comment), though it did make certain advances in the highly important health sector.

The problem with our democracy - most of them, one could generalize - is that voters have very short memories. The NDP screwed the pooch, and the Liberals promised the moon (the current Liberal government being among the most hated in NS history). This see-saw of disaster does nothing to move our province forward.

Dr.G.
Sep 25th, 2017, 09:10 PM
With all due respect, it may be commonplace to do so, but this accusation of the Left as a bunch of free-wheeling spenders on whatever strikes their fancy is a complete fallacy. Conservative governments have been just as guilty of throwing bad money after good when the purpose suits them. The insane —and long ago discredited— ideology that cutting taxes - economic growth is a fine example. Cutting taxes in Canada has only resulted in higher profits and return to shareholders, as the economic growth that should conceivably result from freed-up cash for investment is, oddly enough, rarely invested. Left governments also are concerned for the value of taxpayer's money - and you can point to NDP balanced / surplus budgets as evidence as well as you can certain Conservative and Liberal budgets.

Interestingly, Conservative and some Liberal governments tend to immediately generate surpluses by cutting taxes while also cutting government spending on social programmes, education, health and infrastructure. But after a few years, this comes back to bite them in the ass as under-investment in human beings is not a rapidly elastic economic indicator. Left governments are often elected following economic disaster (see Nova Scotia's NDP election in 2009, following two PC governments) which they then were forced to address by following many of the Right-wing economic playbook (cutting gov't spending and some social services) in order to get the books back in some kind of order. That NDP government made a lot of boneheaded moves ("governed like Liberals" was the frequent comment), though it did make certain advances in the highly important health sector.

The problem with our democracy - most of them, one could generalize - is that voters have very short memories. The NDP screwed the pooch, and the Liberals promised the moon (the current Liberal government being among the most hated in NS history). This see-saw of disaster does nothing to move our province forward.

Mark, I never said that the Left were "free spenders". I am opposed to spending that is needless, such as more and more and more weapons and hardware, when it could be spent on people who are in need.

screature
Sep 27th, 2017, 02:23 PM
Hi Steve, the issue I see with social media is might is right, which is not the same as truth. I see this all the time and it is sad really.

Well there definitely is that, but sometimes it back fires when the "might" is supporting a fraudulent or "wrong/misguided cause". But then again it is just those online who decide, it is not democracy.

I think this is the big myth about the the internet, somehow it it democratic because anyone can say anything at any time. That is just a rabble of people spouting whatever crosses their minds. Democracy is a bout a system whereby the citizens of a given state can freely vote for who they chose to be their representative.

However the internet can be educational, if before people spout off and they do a little and maybe a lot of research online and dare I say go to the library to do some further research it can be a beneficial source of "information". Educationally the internet is what it is and as a free entity should always be so. It is up to individuals to do further research and filtering, beyond that I do not know what else there is to do other than enter into the dark realm of a controlled internet, which scares the hell out of me.

Rps
Sep 27th, 2017, 02:32 PM
Well there definitely is that, but sometimes it back fires when the "might" is supporting a fraudulent or "wrong/misguided cause". But then again it is just those online who decide, it is not democracy.

I think this is the big myth about the the internet, somehow it it democratic because anyone can say anything at any time. That is just a rabble of people spouting whatever crosses their minds. Democracy is a bout a system whereby the citizens of a given state can freely vote for who they chose to be their representative.

However the internet can be educational, if before people spout off and they do a little and maybe a lot of research online and dare I say go to the library to do some further research it can be a beneficial source of "information". Educationally the internet is what it is and as a free entity should always be so. It is up to individuals to do further research and filtering, beyond that I do not know what else there is to do other than enter into the dark realm of a controlled internet, which scares the hell out of me.

The trouble is where does one get honest unbiased information? I think the day will come that the internet will be controlled somehow.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 27th, 2017, 03:40 PM
The trouble is where does one get honest unbiased information? I think the day will come that the internet will be controlled somehow.



I think the source of honest unbiased information needs to be agreed upon. The local news channels have always seemed unbiased to me, while someone with an alt-right perspective, like Ezra Levant, would call it left-wing prog brainwashing. Of course he would, just as I have a hard time taking his "news sources" seriously. Finding a source that all can regard as truly unbiased may pose a problem.

Rps
Sep 27th, 2017, 03:52 PM
Hi Frank, Steve’s point, if I may, on the internet is interesting.....especially since history is constantly changing. Getting back to curricula and education...biased sources camouflaged as fair and balanced may pose a problem for designers and instructors if what is being delivered is at variance to the common belief either supported or slanted by social or other media. It’s been 20years and people still believe that the 9-11 perpetrators were let into the U.S. via Canada...thus we were responsible. When in fact most came directly to the U.S. from Saudi Arabia. To me, subjects which are media ripe such as history, civics, geography, language, culture would be prone to this dichotomy of facts.

Freddie_Biff
Sep 27th, 2017, 06:11 PM
Hi Frank, Steve’s point, if I may, on the internet is interesting.....especially since history is constantly changing. Getting back to curricula and education...biased sources camouflaged as fair and balanced may pose a problem for designers and instructors if what is being delivered is at variance to the common belief either supported or slanted by social or other media. It’s been 20years and people still believe that the 9-11 perpetrators were let into the U.S. via Canada...thus we were responsible. When in fact most came directly to the U.S. from Saudi Arabia. To me, subjects which are media ripe such as history, civics, geography, language, culture would be prone to this dichotomy of facts.



And if you had polled the average American in the summer of 2003, there was no question that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction (and the Dixie Chicks should be boycotted). What I couldn't understand is if Iraq had WMD's, why on earth didn't they use them to defend themselves?

What I learned from that 24 hour a day news coverage was that the truth could really be whatever you wanted it to be. There is no actual cold hard objectivity.

eMacMan
Sep 28th, 2017, 02:17 AM
Hi Frank, Steve’s point, if I may, on the internet is interesting.....especially since history is constantly changing. Getting back to curricula and education...biased sources camouflaged as fair and balanced may pose a problem for designers and instructors if what is being delivered is at variance to the common belief either supported or slanted by social or other media. It’s been 20years and people still believe that the 9-11 perpetrators were let into the U.S. via Canada...thus we were responsible. When in fact most came directly to the U.S. from Saudi Arabia. To me, subjects which are media ripe such as history, civics, geography, language, culture would be prone to this dichotomy of facts.

Only if you can ignore the blatantly obvious clues that 9-11 was an inside job. If you fail to achieve that level of ignorance then those Wahabi Saudis become conveniently dead patsies and a gentleman named Silverman, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz suddenly look like prime candidates for lethal injections.

Worse than that it becomes glaringly obvious that millions in the Middle East have been killed, maimed and/or made homeless to satisfy the greed of the MIC.

IOW education should never be about getting the student to parrot the official view but rather trying to reason things out and sort fantasy from fiction.

Rps
Sep 28th, 2017, 10:26 AM
Only if you can ignore the blatantly obvious clues that 9-11 was an inside job. If you fail to achieve that level of ignorance then those Wahabi Saudis become conveniently dead patsies and a gentleman named Silverman, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz suddenly look like prime candidates for lethal injections.

Worse than that it becomes glaringly obvious that millions in the Middle East have been killed, maimed and/or made homeless to satisfy the greed of the MIC.

IOW education should never be about getting the student to parrot the official view but rather trying to reason things out and sort fantasy from fiction.

And thus the root of the problem......

screature
Sep 28th, 2017, 02:03 PM
The trouble is where does one get honest unbiased information? I think the day will come that the internet will be controlled somehow.

Agreed. It is impossible. It is all anecdotal or fabricated or sometimes the actual truth. The problem is in filtering out what "makes sense" and what doesn't and then that is only based on the biases of the researcher. It is the snake eating its tail. The victors and conspirators write the history books. When it comes to the history of the actions of mankind all we have is what we have been told and not told that maybe lurks in the shadows. Everyone has their own opinion based on the "facts" that they believe to be the facts and then there are the conspiracy theorists who believe what they think lurks in the shadows.

That is what makes it such great fun!!! ;)

Then we will truly be living in an Orwellian world. Like I said, it scares the hell out of me.

screature
Sep 28th, 2017, 02:52 PM
I have written about this in other threads but it is very pertinent to this thread especially.

When I was in grade 8 I had a "religion" teacher named Mr. Pitt. He was one of the kindest and wisest men I have ever known until this day.

He taught his students what is to me one of the most important lessons you can learn at a very early age and made it into a game so that you would remember and I still do.

He wrote a "saying" on the chalkboard that we all had to write down, then we had two days (Religion class was only twice a week) to practice saying it out loud as fast we could with every would still being intelligible.

Everyone had to participate and go to the front to the class to say it as fast as they could while he ran a stop watch, so everyone wanted to win. But the winning of being the fastest was not the point. The point was that in performing the exercise of saying it over and over again out loud, it would stick with you even if you didn't understand it at the time, which was the case with me and I am sure with many of his other students.

The saying goes like this this:

When I hear I forget,
When I see I remember,
But when I begin to think, act and experience,
Then I understand.

42 years later and I still remember because of his great pedagogical technique and the wisdom that the saying contained. It conveys so much more about the condition of living on this planet as a human being than the simple, humble words say alone.

To me this is an example of great teaching and what should be at the heart of education.

Rps
Sep 28th, 2017, 03:04 PM
Steve, yes it is a great lesson...thanx for sharing!

Dr.G.
Sep 28th, 2017, 05:53 PM
I have written about this in other threads but it is very pertinent to this thread especially.

When I was in grade 8 I had a "religion" teacher named Mr. Pitt. He was one of the kindest and wisest men I have ever known until this day.

He taught his students what is to me one of the most important lessons you can learn at a very early age and made it into a game so that you would remember and I still do.

He wrote a "saying" on the chalkboard that we all had to write down, then we had two days (Religion class was only twice a week) to practice saying it out loud as fast we could with every would still being intelligible.

Everyone had to participate and go to the front to the class to say it as fast as they could while he ran a stop watch, so everyone wanted to win. But the winning of being the fastest was not the point. The point was that in performing the exercise of saying it over and over again out loud, it would stick with you even if you didn't understand it at the time, which was the case with me and I am sure with many of his other students.

The saying goes like this this:

When I hear I forget,
When I see I remember,
But when I begin to think, act and experience,
Then I understand.

42 years later and I still remember because of his great pedagogical technique and the wisdom that the saying contained. It conveys so much more about the condition of living on this planet as a human being than the simple, humble words say alone.

To me this is an example of great teaching and what should be at the heart of education.

Sounds like he was a fine teacher, Steve. :clap::clap:

screature
Sep 28th, 2017, 07:05 PM
Steve, yes it is a great lesson...thanx for sharing!

Sounds like he was a fine teacher, Steve. :clap::clap:

Sadly he died two years later from a massive heart attack on the 3rd floor of the High School with teachers and students watching. I thank god I was not there to see it, it broke my heart enough as it was.

The lesson for teaching is this, do not give students information alone. Give them something to think about, even at a young age, the younger the better.

Dr.G.
Sep 28th, 2017, 07:20 PM
Sadly he died two years later from a massive heart attack on the 3rd floor of the High School with teachers and students watching. I thank god I was not there to see it, it broke my heart enough as it was.

The lesson for teaching is this, do not give students information alone. Give them something to think about, even at a young age, the younger the better.

Sad to hear of his death, Steve.

Still, what you said about "the lesson for teaching" is very true. Paix, mon ami.

screature
Sep 28th, 2017, 10:35 PM
Sad to hear of his death, Steve.

Still, what you said about "the lesson for teaching" is very true. Paix, mon ami.

Thank you Marc, I think about him and his teachings very frequently... There are not many teachers/professors that I can say that about.

All that being said I have a question. In terms of education what should the public at large be paying for, regardless of the level of education?

For those that are interested what policies do you propose or advocate to advance "higher learning", i.e., university, college, trade schools, etc.

Dr.G.
Sep 29th, 2017, 06:18 AM
Thank you Marc, I think about him and his teachings very frequently... There are not many teachers/professors that I can say that about.

All that being said I have a question. In terms of education what should the public at large be paying for, regardless of the level of education?

For those that are interested what policies do you propose or advocate to advance "higher learning", i.e., university, college, trade schools, etc.

"There are not many teachers/professors that I can say that about." All too true for most of us, Steve.

Personally, I feel that the public at large should be responsible for a quality pre-school to high school education for all.

"Happiness is not a matter of intensity but of balance and order and rhythm and harmony." Thomas Merton

screature
Sep 29th, 2017, 04:13 PM
"There are not many teachers/professors that I can say that about." All too true for most of us, Steve.

Personally, I feel that the public at large should be responsible for a quality pre-school to high school education for all.

"Happiness is not a matter of intensity but of balance and order and rhythm and harmony." Thomas Merton

Thank you Marc for your comments.

That is why, contrary to many Western views, I do not believe in happiness as a pursuit. Happiness is an excited state, one that is fleeting. Happiness is IMO equivalent to joy, which is also fleeting. They are both definitely desirable, but they are unsustainable (physics always tends toward a sate of equilibrium).

Contentment is what I seek and thus far have failed miserably to achieve. There are moments when I feel content, but with this over saturated "happiness" machine that we all live in, it is hard to maintain. Living in this modern environment and remaining content takes extreme effort, concentration and mediation. I am not there yet. Sometimes I think the only answer is to go totally off grid, sometimes due to my depression, I think **** it.

I am not quite there yet, I continue to struggle for myself and my family as I know ending my suffering increases theirs. So I struggle on.

So what does this have to do with education?!! A lot! Especially in grade and high school and now with "social" media it makes it worse. These kinds of issues develop over time and
become exacerbated with social media. I know this sounds harsh but I wish Mark Zuckerberg was never born. Facebook is a pariah as is basically all social networking online.

I know many others will disagree, but the world was a better place before "online social networking"

Freddie_Biff
Sep 29th, 2017, 04:53 PM
Thank you Marc for your comments.



That is why, contrary to many Western views, I do not believe in happiness as a pursuit. Happiness is an excited state, one that is fleeting. Happiness is IMO equivalent to joy, which is also fleeting. They are both definitely desirable, but they are unsustainable (physics always tends toward a sate of equilibrium).



Contentment is what I seek and thus far have failed miserably to achieve. There are moments when I feel content, but with this over saturated "happiness" machine that we all live in, it is hard to maintain. Living in this modern environment and remaining content takes extreme effort, concentration and mediation. I am not there yet. Sometimes I think the only answer is to go totally off grid, sometimes due to my depression, I think **** it.



I am not quite there yet, I continue to struggle for myself and my family as I know ending my suffering increases theirs. So I struggle on.



So what does this have to do with education?!! A lot! Especially in grade and high school and now with "social" media it makes it worse. These kinds of issues develop over time and

become exacerbated with social media. I know this sounds harsh but I wish Mark Zuckerberg was never born. Facebook is a pariah as is basically all social networking online.



I know many others will disagree, but the world was a better place before "online social networking"



I gotta disagree you on the Facebook thing. As a fifty something Canadian man, I find FB is a great way to stay connected to friends and family, not to mention advertise gigs, without all the social bullying that the younger generation may have to deal with. For me, it's almost the perfect means of communication, as little or as much as I want, with whomever I prefer. Outlawing Facebook would be like outlawing the telephone. I guess your mileage with FB may vary.

eMacMan
Sep 29th, 2017, 05:46 PM
Thank you Marc for your comments.

That is why, contrary to many Western views, I do not believe in happiness as a pursuit. Happiness is an excited state, one that is fleeting. Happiness is IMO equivalent to joy, which is also fleeting. They are both definitely desirable, but they are unsustainable (physics always tends toward a sate of equilibrium).

Contentment is what I seek and thus far have failed miserably to achieve. There are moments when I feel content, but with this over saturated "happiness" machine that we all live in, it is hard to maintain. Living in this modern environment and remaining content takes extreme effort, concentration and mediation. I am not there yet. Sometimes I think the only answer is to go totally off grid, sometimes due to my depression, I think **** it.

I am not quite there yet, I continue to struggle for myself and my family as I know ending my suffering increases theirs. So I struggle on.

So what does this have to do with education?!! A lot! Especially in grade and high school and now with "social" media it makes it worse. These kinds of issues develop over time and
become exacerbated with social media. I know this sounds harsh but I wish Mark Zuckerberg was never born. Facebook is a pariah as is basically all social networking online.

I know many others will disagree, but the world was a better place before "online social networking"

I tend to agree with you on Facebook. I don't find it distressing but rather terribly frivolous. It is somewhat useful for staying in touch with people who have similar interests, but otherwise I tend to avoid it altogether.

screature
Sep 30th, 2017, 01:42 PM
I gotta disagree you on the Facebook thing. As a fifty something Canadian man, I find FB is a great way to stay connected to friends and family, not to mention advertise gigs, without all the social bullying that the younger generation may have to deal with. For me, it's almost the perfect means of communication, as little or as much as I want, with whomever I prefer. Outlawing Facebook would be like outlawing the telephone. I guess your mileage with FB may vary.

I am not in no way suggesting the elimination of Facebook. It is here and so shall it stay as long as people continue to use it.... It is a matter of yin and yang.. Some people use it benevolently, others use it to attack other people, suicides have been committed becuase of Facebook. This is without doubt, it is factual and has been well documented in the media and the law.

For people who use Facebook benevolently no problem , but there are tons of others who use it to post hate and venom, it would not be so bad, if it were a site like ehMac where there are very few watching and paying attention, But not on Facebook, their are millions upon million paying attention. ISIIS used Facebook to recruit supporters, time and time again. How is that a good thing?

So like most things Facebook could be used for good or for bad. But if it didn't exist in the first place we would not be be having this discussion.

I think that all Zuckerberg wanted was to be the first to create something like this and make millions and billions by doing so. I don't think it even crossed his childish brain how his development could adversely affect the world, and even if it did he said to himself "**** it, I don't care".

Freddie_Biff
Sep 30th, 2017, 07:33 PM
I think all Zuckerberg was interested in was a cheap way to check out all the babes on campus. He had no idea it would take off so well and be used for grandparents to see pics of their grandkids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

screature
Oct 1st, 2017, 01:52 PM
I think all Zuckerberg was interested in was a cheap way to check out all the babes on campus. He had no idea it would take off so well and be used for grandparents to see pics of their grandkids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I appreciate the witty reply. But all you have to do is look at his wife and if what you say were true, at least physically, he could done much better. Plus he married her only once he was a billionaire, So I don't think your argument holds much water.

He is an egotist and always has been one. He does not care one way or the how Facebook is used, just so long as the dollars keep rolling in... He has no ethics, no morality or common decency. I don't know if you watch the "Black List" but he should be on it. I think when he started he was benevolent, but since the ugly **** that has occurred to his creation hs does not give a rat's ass.... " that is not me it is just how people choose to use it".

Sounds like a gun manufacturer doesn't it. F**K that the guy is no dummy (or maybe he is).

If he, had any sense at all he could have imagined how his creation could be used for evil.

But like I said, it didn't even cross his mind and didn't care, all he wanted was the dollars and the self glorification, which he received in spades. Why? because lots of folks will use it simply to contact others, which I do not understand because e-mail and texting already exists. His intentions were far from altruistic, all he wanted was to be the first and make a lot money from from it. Period. He achieved that and the world still suffers from it to this day.

I don't know if any of you here watch "The Blacklist", but Zuckerberg would be on mine.

screature
Oct 1st, 2017, 01:55 PM
I appreciate the witty reply. But all you have to do is look at his wife and if what you say were true, at least physically, he could done much better. Plus he married her only once he was a billionaire, So I don't think your argument holds much water.

He is an egotist and always has been one. He does not care one way or the how Facebook is used, just so long as the dollars keep rolling in... He has no ethics, no morality or common decency. I don't know if you watch the "Black List" but he should be on it. I think when he started he was benevolent, but since the ugly **** that has occurred to his creation hs does not give a rat's ass.... " that is not me it is just how people choose to use it".

Sounds like a gun manufacturer doesn't it. F**K that the guy is no dummy (or maybe he is).

If he had any sense at all he could have imagined how his creation could be used for evil.

But like I said before, it didn't even cross his mind and didn't care, all he wanted was the dollars and the self glorification, which he received in spades. Why? because lots of folks will use it simply to contact others, which I do not understand because e-mail and texting already exists. His intentions were far from altruistic, all he wanted was to be the first and make a lot money from from it. Period. He achieved that and the world still suffers from it to this day.

I don't know if any of you here watch "The Blacklist", but Zuckerberg would be on mine. It is a great show well worth watching.

CubaMark
Oct 1st, 2017, 03:17 PM
Nice - the final question posed was worth the wait.

Betsy DeVos faces absolutely stunning 'silent' protest at Harvard (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/29/1702700/-Betsy-DeVos-faces-absolutely-stunning-silent-protest-at-Harvard?detail=facebook)

While Trump’s swamp-addled Education Secretary Betsy DeVos tried to speak at Harvard University to sell her special privatization of public school branding “school choice,” she found herself the subject of an incredibly powerful and well orchestrated “silent” protest. Silently standing up as the DeVos speech got under way was one young woman, holding up a sheet with “White Supremacist” emblazoned in red on it. Then another young man stood up silently with a sign reading “Our Students Are Not 4 Sale!” As security tried move protestors along by speaking to them, more and more students unfurled signs saying “Protect Survivors’ Rights,” “Our Harvard Can Do Better,” “Reclaiming My Democracy,” and “Dark Money,”...

* * *

...during a question and answer section one student asked one of those questions you wish a senator or a reporter might ask.

Student: So, You’re a billionaire with lots and lots of investments, and the so-called “school choice” movement is a way to open the floodgates for corporate interests to make money off the backs of students. How much do you expect your net worth to increase as a result of your policy choices and what are your friends on Wall Street and in the business world—like the Koch brothers—saying about the potential to get rich off the backs of students?

(DailyKOS (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/29/1702700/-Betsy-DeVos-faces-absolutely-stunning-silent-protest-at-Harvard?detail=facebook))

Freddie_Biff
Oct 2nd, 2017, 02:12 AM
I think of Facebook much like I think of the telephone; it's a tool, and can be used for great good, depending on who's using it. My perception of it is certainly positive for the most part. It's better than e-mail or texting because you can broadcast to a large audience all at once. Mind you, I haven't experienced Facebook bullying, so there's that. I imagine there are thousands of potentials avenues for misuse of social media, including this here little forum at times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

screature
Oct 2nd, 2017, 12:07 PM
I think of Facebook much like I think of the telephone; it's a tool, and can be used for great good, depending on who's using it. My perception of it is certainly positive for the most part. It's better than e-mail or texting because you can broadcast to a large audience all at once. Mind you, I haven't experienced Facebook bullying, so there's that. I imagine there are thousands of potentials avenues for misuse of social media, including this here little forum at times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess that is the problem for me. I like my privacy and do not need the whole world to know my business. Using e-mail you can easily create distribution lists that can go out out to even thousands of recipients, the rest of world is excluded.

I don't need Joe Blow to know that I had bowel surgery a day ago and I would rather Joe Blow didn't know.

The other thing that I hate about Facebook is "friend" requests from people who I don't even know, they come in by the hundreds. It seems like there is some internal game or race on Facebook to see who has the most "friends", I also find that distasteful and an intrusion on my privacy. The only reason they can contact me is because I have a Facebook account (which is only used in a very limited manner by myself, maybe 3 -4 posts a year), so it amount's to SPAM. I didn't ask for them to contact me but yet they do in the hundreds over a year. IMO Facebook has become a free for all of unwanted unsolicited e-mails, notifications and solicitations. The only reason why I maintain my account is because in order to reply to some sites you have to have an account... I wonder what that is all about, not really I know.

Freddie_Biff
Oct 2nd, 2017, 10:17 PM
I guess that is the problem for me. I like my privacy and do not need the whole world to know my business. Using e-mail you can easily create distribution lists that can go out out to even thousands of recipients, the rest of world is excluded.



I don't need Joe Blow to know that I had bowel surgery a day ago and I would rather Joe Blow didn't know.



The other thing that I hate about Facebook is "friend" requests from people who I don't even know, they come in by the hundreds. It seems like there is some internal game or race on Facebook to see who has the most "friends", I also find that distasteful and an intrusion on my privacy. The only reason they can contact me is because I have a Facebook account (which is only used in a very limited manner by myself, maybe 3 -4 posts a year), so it amount's to SPAM. I didn't ask for them to contact me but yet they do in the hundreds over a year. IMO Facebook has become a free for all of unwanted unsolicited e-mails, notifications and solicitations. The only reason why I maintain my account is because in order to reply to some sites you have to have an account... I wonder what that is all about, not really I know.



I guess we each use it for very different reasons then. To each their own.

wonderings
Oct 3rd, 2017, 09:52 AM
I guess that is the problem for me. I like my privacy and do not need the whole world to know my business. Using e-mail you can easily create distribution lists that can go out out to even thousands of recipients, the rest of world is excluded.

I don't need Joe Blow to know that I had bowel surgery a day ago and I would rather Joe Blow didn't know.

The other thing that I hate about Facebook is "friend" requests from people who I don't even know, they come in by the hundreds. It seems like there is some internal game or race on Facebook to see who has the most "friends", I also find that distasteful and an intrusion on my privacy. The only reason they can contact me is because I have a Facebook account (which is only used in a very limited manner by myself, maybe 3 -4 posts a year), so it amount's to SPAM. I didn't ask for them to contact me but yet they do in the hundreds over a year. IMO Facebook has become a free for all of unwanted unsolicited e-mails, notifications and solicitations. The only reason why I maintain my account is because in order to reply to some sites you have to have an account... I wonder what that is all about, not really I know.

I am not a fan of the whole "social" stuff that seems to be everywhere these days. No Facebook, no twitter, none of it. I recently bought a fitbit watch to keep track of exercise and was shocked to start getting emails from people I know asking to be friends on the fitbit social network. I looked through and found a privacy setting and turned it on. I still go emails about adding friends and I inquired about this to fitbit and was told you cannot turn off the social and that I could not make my account completely invisible.

Social media has people down in their phones everywhere. Sitting in a restaurant and everyone is looking down at their phones rather then being social with real live people in the moment. It seems there is something addictive to it, not sure what it is but rarely do I see someone walking down the street who does not have their phone up. Even concerts, rather then enjoy and be in that moment people are trying to capture it on their phone. Personally I think it is sad. Social media is not for me, though I am sure it has some good parts if used well, I would take a guess and say most do not.

Freddie_Biff
Oct 3rd, 2017, 01:31 PM
I am not a fan of the whole "social" stuff that seems to be everywhere these days. No Facebook, no twitter, none of it. I recently bought a fitbit watch to keep track of exercise and was shocked to start getting emails from people I know asking to be friends on the fitbit social network. I looked through and found a privacy setting and turned it on. I still go emails about adding friends and I inquired about this to fitbit and was told you cannot turn off the social and that I could not make my account completely invisible.



Social media has people down in their phones everywhere. Sitting in a restaurant and everyone is looking down at their phones rather then being social with real live people in the moment. It seems there is something addictive to it, not sure what it is but rarely do I see someone walking down the street who does not have their phone up. Even concerts, rather then enjoy and be in that moment people are trying to capture it on their phone. Personally I think it is sad. Social media is not for me, though I am sure it has some good parts if used well, I would take a guess and say most do not.



The irony is that you just used social media—the ehMac forum site—to communicate this message. Perhaps it is some particular forms of social media you dislike while embracing others.

This wheel shows some of the thousands of social media avenues available to people today. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171003/6053ea46b81a2e5fb15e6a411731aae0.jpg

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/social-media

wonderings
Oct 3rd, 2017, 02:25 PM
The irony is that you just used social media—the ehMac forum site—to communicate this message. Perhaps it is some particular forms of social media you dislike while embracing others.

This wheel shows some of the thousands of social media avenues available to people today. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171003/6053ea46b81a2e5fb15e6a411731aae0.jpg

What is social media? - Definition from WhatIs.com (http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/social-media)

The difference being ehmac.ca does not go out and try and find my friends and connect them to me here. I had a fake Facebook account, curious how it operated. I did not use it to add friends or communicate in anyway, it was simply curiosity. Using fake information Facebook quickly tried to connect me with people I may know. Not sure how I may know them or why they all seemed to be of Ethiopian heritage (location was set in Ontario, small rural town).

Again using fitbit as the example, it tries to connect people with others who may know them and it seems I have no option to remain private in that regard. I generally use forums as a tool for gathering information or help with an issue. My privacy is again up to me on how much I want to divulge. So yes, I suppose I am not completely against social media.

Freddie_Biff
Oct 3rd, 2017, 05:54 PM
The difference being ehmac.ca does not go out and try and find my friends and connect them to me here. I had a fake Facebook account, curious how it operated. I did not use it to add friends or communicate in anyway, it was simply curiosity. Using fake information Facebook quickly tried to connect me with people I may know. Not sure how I may know them or why they all seemed to be of Ethiopian heritage (location was set in Ontario, small rural town).



Again using fitbit as the example, it tries to connect people with others who may know them and it seems I have no option to remain private in that regard. I generally use forums as a tool for gathering information or help with an issue. My privacy is again up to me on how much I want to divulge. So yes, I suppose I am not completely against social media.


I think I see what you're saying. Some forms of social media can certainly be more insidious and obtrusive than others.

Beej
Oct 4th, 2017, 11:20 PM
she found herself the subject of an incredibly powerful and well orchestrated “silent” protest.

I watched the video, and this is not what it was billed to be. More quality journalism from someone who critiques other ehmacer's questionable preferred links.

And then the crowd started chanting, "That's what white supremacy looks like." Really made their point. People who disagree with the protesters are white supremacists. Don't think about her statements because...?

The silent protest was, at least, better than the non-silent version.

CubaMark
Oct 7th, 2017, 09:35 PM
I watched the video, and this is not what it was billed to be. More quality journalism from someone who critiques other ehmacer's questionable preferred links.

Please explain. The protest was silent for the duration of her speech for the most part (there was one vocal remark made when DeVos asked a rhetorical question) until the Q&A session began. Unless I'm mistaken, the linked clip was not the entirety of DeVos' remarks.

And then the crowd started chanting, "That's what white supremacy looks like." Really made their point. People who disagree with the protesters are white supremacists. Don't think about her statements because...?

I'm not tuned into all the issues surrounding DeVos, so I don't know the basis for the white supremacy dig. But that was one sign... there were many others that protested, for example, DeVos' rollback of protections for victims of rape and her funding (1/4 of a $Billion) to expand charter schools (http://www.newsweek.com/harvard-students-protest-betsy-devos-674300). Picking out one sign out of many is also an exhibition of bias, Beej.

And since we're on the topic of DeVos' efforts to decimate public schooling in favour of a market system in which the rich can build great schools for their kids (and their kids alone) and the poor folk will - I dunno, hold reading, riting and rithmatick classes under an overpass somewhere, the results of DeVos favoured path to edumakashun ain't all roses:

For-Profit Schools Get State Dollars For Dropouts Who Rarely Drop In (https://www.propublica.org/article/for-profit-schools-get-state-dollars-for-dropouts-who-rarely-drop-in)

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Last school year, Ohio’s cash-strapped education department paid Capital High $1.4 million in taxpayer dollars to teach students on the verge of dropping out. But on a Thursday in May, students’ workstations in the storefront charter school run by for-profit EdisonLearning resembled place settings for a dinner party where most guests never arrived.

In one room, empty chairs faced 25 blank computer monitors. Just three students sat in a science lab down the hall, and nine more in an unlit classroom, including one youth who sprawled out, head down, sleeping.

Only three of the more than 170 students on Capital’s rolls attended class the required five hours that day, records obtained by ProPublica show. Almost two-thirds of the school’s students never showed up; others left early. Nearly a third of the roster failed to attend class all week.

Some stay away even longer. ProPublica reviewed 38 days of Capital High’s records from late March to late May and found six students skipped 22 or more days straight with no excused absences. Two were gone the entire 38-day period. Under state rules, Capital should have unenrolled them after 21 consecutive unexcused absences.

Though the school is largely funded on a per-student basis, the no-shows didn’t hurt the school’s revenue stream. Capital billed and received payment from the state for teaching the equivalent of 171 students full time in May.

U.S. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos has championed charters and for-profit education, contending in congressional testimony that school choice can lower absenteeism and dropout rates. But at schools like Capital, a ProPublica-USA Today investigation found, the drop-outs rarely drop in — and if they do, they don’t stay long.
(ProPublica (https://www.propublica.org/article/for-profit-schools-get-state-dollars-for-dropouts-who-rarely-drop-in))

Macfury
Oct 7th, 2017, 10:44 PM
Every school gets dollars for students who don't show up!

CubaMark
Oct 7th, 2017, 10:48 PM
Every school gets dollars for students who don't show up!

Cute, flippant remark.

Now try reading the article in depth, and comment on the actual issues at hand.

Macfury
Oct 8th, 2017, 12:23 AM
That was the issue YOU selected by picking an article titled:

For-Profit Schools Get State Dollars For Dropouts Who Rarely Drop In

Rps
Oct 8th, 2017, 07:49 PM
For my part, putting DeVos in charge of public education is like giving Jack the Ripper an Avon route.

Dr.G.
Oct 8th, 2017, 11:21 PM
For my part, putting DeVos in charge of public education is like giving Jack the Ripper an Avon route.

Sad, but all too true, Rp. Paix, mon ami.

FeXL
Oct 20th, 2017, 04:40 PM
No-calculator math test reveals weak mental math among Alberta students (http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/10/17/no-calculator-math-test-reveals-weak-mental-math-among-alberta-students)

Grade 6 students did poorly on a new no-calculator portion of provincial mathematics exams, Alberta’s education minister said Tuesday.

Last fall, concerned about children’s grasp of math fundamentals, David Eggen introduced a new 15-minute, 15-question section to the math exam written by all sixth graders across the province.

“And there it was. Boom. Big place for room for improvement for basic skills,” Eggen said Tuesday after the education ministry released its 2016-17 provincial exam results.

So, coupla observations.

1) "Boom". Ain't rocket surgery, Davey-boy. Take away the requirement in the curriculum for memorizing times tables & mental math is going to take a hit. Didn't need to throw 15 mins of mental math into 6th grade PAT's (and all the costs associated with it) to figger that one out, Captain Obvious. All you had to do was ask a few math teachers. You know, the ones who are actually in the trenches & not driving a desk in Emonchuk? Now you think yer some kinda hero? Leave it to a Prog...

2) Good news is that many teachers (not limited to but including my lovely bride) continued to teach the memorization of times tables despite the fact that they were pulled from the curriculum. Curious, her school almost always tests above the provincial average in math. You go, babe.

Macfury
Oct 20th, 2017, 04:48 PM
At least Jethro Bodine knew ciphering.

No-calculator math test reveals weak mental math among Alberta students (http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/10/17/no-calculator-math-test-reveals-weak-mental-math-among-alberta-students)



So, coupla observations.

1) "Boom". Ain't rocket surgery, Davey-boy. Take away the requirement in the curriculum for memorizing times tables & mental math is going to take a hit. Didn't need to throw 15 mins of mental math into 6th grade PAT's (and all the costs associated with it) to figger that one out, Captain Obvious. All you had to do was ask a few math teachers. You know, the ones who are actually in the trenches & not driving a desk in Emonchuk? Now you think yer some kinda hero? Leave it to a Prog...

2) Good news is that many teachers (not limited to but including my lovely bride) continued to teach the memorization of times tables despite the fact that they were pulled from the curriculum. Curious, her school almost always tests above the provincial average in math. You go, babe.

Freddie_Biff
Oct 20th, 2017, 04:55 PM
No-calculator math test reveals weak mental math among Alberta students (http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/10/17/no-calculator-math-test-reveals-weak-mental-math-among-alberta-students)







So, coupla observations.



1) "Boom". Ain't rocket surgery, Davey-boy. Take away the requirement in the curriculum for memorizing times tables & mental math is going to take a hit. Didn't need to throw 15 mins of mental math into 6th grade PAT's (and all the costs associated with it) to figger that one out, Captain Obvious. All you had to do was ask a few math teachers. You know, the ones who are actually in the trenches & not driving a desk in Emonchuk? Now you think yer some kinda hero? Leave it to a Prog...



2) Good news is that many teachers (not limited to but including my lovely bride) continued to teach the memorization of times tables despite the fact that they were pulled from the curriculum. Curious, her school almost always tests above the provincial average in math. You go, babe.


Just so we're clear, it was not Eggen's people that took away the timestable learning part of the curriculum; you can thank your PC government of the previous 44 years for that. Why do you think the NDP feel it's time to rewrite the curriculum? With a ton of teachers at the helm? You're criticizing the wrong people.

FeXL
Oct 20th, 2017, 05:11 PM
Just so we're clear, nobody said it was. The PC's screwed up portions of curriculum rewrites regularly. As do all gov'ts. I expect the same from the En Dee Pee. Perhaps especially from the En Dee Pee

Just so we're clear, it was not Eggen's people that took away the timestable learning part of the curriculum; you can thank your PC government of the previous 44 years for that.

I have no idea. Trying to justify their jobs? Time to insert more social justice issues? Correct the global warming narrative?

Why do you think the NDP feel it's time to rewrite the curriculum?

I have no idea what you mean by this.

With a ton of teachers at the helm?

No, I'm not. I've known for years (since the last math curriculum rewrite) that not learning times tables by rote was going to end poorly. I'm something short of a genius but I didn't need 2-1/2 years and a stinking PAT test to confirm the obvious.

You're criticizing the wrong people.

Macfury
Oct 20th, 2017, 05:12 PM
It was in the education thread, not the Alberta NDP thread.

Just so we're clear, it was not Eggen's people that took away the timestable learning part of the curriculum; you can thank your PC government of the previous 44 years for that. Why do you think the NDP feel it's time to rewrite the curriculum? With a ton of teachers at the helm? You're criticizing the wrong people.

Freddie_Biff
Oct 23rd, 2017, 10:22 PM
Something to educate yourself about: do not mix LED bulbs with incandescents in light fixtures. LED's can't take the heat. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171024/6daf4781d3e459fb670c2908f5ac6c9a.jpg

Macfury
Oct 23rd, 2017, 10:23 PM
Ouch!

Freddie_Biff
Oct 23rd, 2017, 11:15 PM
Ouch!



Now I know why those EZ-Bake ovens could bake a cake with a 60w bulb.

Macfury
Oct 24th, 2017, 02:34 AM
Killer Devil's Food--just not a lot of it.

FeXL
Oct 30th, 2017, 12:59 PM
Baltimore, MD. Isn't that another Dem stronghold?

'Magine that...

Grade-Rigging Scandal Escalates: Baltimore Schools CEO Issue Memo In Response To Investigations (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-28/grade-rigging-scandal-escalates-baltimore-schools-ceo-issue-memo-response-investigat)

In recent times, we have covered a grade-rigging scandal in Baltimore, Maryland that is worth paying attention to. Baltimore City Schools could be on the verge of gaining national attention, as the prime example of America’s broken education system.

Project Baltimore, an investigative reporting initiative, by Sinclair Broadcast Group Inc, the largest U.S. broadcaster, has led the charge via lead investigator Chris Papst in uncovering evidence, which suggests Baltimore City school officials are running a grade manipulation scheme in the public school system.

In a report from August, Chris Papst’s team uncovered documents suggesting one school in Baltimore has the highest graduation rate in the area with zero students proficient in math. Throughout 2017, Project Baltimore has made the case with evidence—- grade manipulation is widespread.

Questions, questions...

How can a high school with zero students proficient in math have the highest graduation rate?

Links' bold.

h/t SDA, from whence comes this dripping sarcasm (http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/10/the-children-ar-202.html#comments):

How? Because, such a school wouldn't even understand the mathematical concept of rate.

Nails it...

Related (and further on Barry's legacy):

Bill Gates Tacitly Admits His Common Core Experiment Was A Failure (http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/25/bill-gates-tacitly-admits-common-core-experiment-failure/)

It looks like this is as close to an apology or admission of failure as we're going to get, folks. Sorry about that $4 trillion and mangled years of education for American K-12 kids and teachers.

Rps
Oct 30th, 2017, 01:06 PM
I think you will find that grade fixing is in every state and has little to do with whether that state is represented by a donkey or an elephant.....that said many are run by asses!

FeXL
Oct 30th, 2017, 01:19 PM
I think you will find that grade fixing is in every state and has little to do with whether that state is represented by a donkey or an elephant.....that said many are run by asses!

Perhaps. In this particular case we are talking about a city which has been under the stranglehold of the Dems for decades. Along with the poor quality education (and associated lies), they rank high in deaths due to firearms and black poverty. There is a correlation...

If you have any articles relating to significant grade fixing in historically Rep controlled centres, I'd be more than happy to read them...

Rps
Oct 30th, 2017, 01:26 PM
FeXL, here’s one...Ann Arbor Schools won't hold back struggling 3rd grade readers | MLive.com (http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2017/05/ann_arbor_schools_3rd_grade_re.html). You may know this but Ann Arbor is also where the University of Michigan is housed.

Rps
Oct 30th, 2017, 01:31 PM
How about this one.....CHARTER SCHOOL SCANDALS: ASPIRA, Inc. of Illinois (http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.ca/2012/04/aspira-inc-of-illinois.html). to be fair New York had a large case recently. The fact is it is everywhere.

FeXL
Oct 30th, 2017, 02:49 PM
Thx for the links.

Couldn't find anything in the first link about grade fixing. Don't know if Ann Arbor is Dem or Rep.

Pertaining to the second link, Chicago is very Dem. As with Baltimore, high on list of gun deaths & black poverty.

Macfury
Oct 30th, 2017, 02:54 PM
Ann Arbor run by Dems since 2000.

Thx for the links.

Couldn't find anything in the first link about grade fixing. Don't know if Ann Arbor is Dem or Rep.

Pertaining to the second link, Chicago is very Dem. As with Baltimore, high on list of gun deaths & black poverty.

Rps
Oct 30th, 2017, 03:01 PM
Ann Arbor run by Dems since 2000.

Maybe but Michigan is Republican and has been for a long time.

Macfury
Oct 30th, 2017, 03:03 PM
Maybe but Michigan is Republican and has been for a long time.

School board.

FeXL
Oct 30th, 2017, 03:18 PM
Maybe but Michigan is Republican and has been for a long time.

I'm talking cities specifically.

Rps
Nov 9th, 2017, 12:19 PM
I'm talking cities specifically.

FeXL, some interesting reading, and I’m sure we have the same here.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-most-student-loan-fraud-claims-involve-for-profits/

FeXL
Nov 9th, 2017, 12:38 PM
FeXL, some interesting reading, and I’m sure we have the same here.


Thx for the link. I gave it a quick scan but don't have time to get to the meat & potatoes right now. Get back to you.

CubaMark
Nov 16th, 2017, 08:41 PM
Well... that's quite a decision to take for a Liberal government, eh?

Wynne government announces legislation to end college strike (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/college-strike-legislation-1.4406239)

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne's office said Thursday her government will table legislation that will end the province's college strike, after negotiations reached an impasse.

Wynne met with both the Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU) and the College Employer Council (CEC) on Thursday after union members overwhelming voted against a contract offer.

"I asked them to work together to find a path forward that would see students return to class by Monday," Wynne said in the release.

"That's why we are immediately tabling legislation that would end the dispute and return Ontario college students to the classroom where they belong. Under the proposed legislation that we're introducing today, all outstanding issues would be referred to binding mediation-arbitration."

Wynne urged both parties to unanimously support the legislation, in order to get students and faculty back to class on Monday morning.

"We have said repeatedly that students have been in the middle of this strike for too long and it is not fair. We need to get them back to the classroom."

(CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/college-strike-legislation-1.4406239))

Macfury
Nov 16th, 2017, 09:08 PM
Always see this behaviour from the left in Ontario when their re-election chances are diving into the toilet.

FeXL
Nov 28th, 2017, 04:25 PM
FeXL, some interesting reading, and I’m sure we have the same here.


Sorry, this got lost somewhere along the line.

Was a good read. Very unfortunate that it's the for-profit schools that are responsible for the lion's share of the fraud.

Seeing as education is a state controlled institution, I'm still not convinced that there needs to be a federal Education Secretary. However, if one pushes the point, perhaps this is one situation where the position can be justified.

As to the two regs that have been eliminated, I don't know what they were & whether they were effective or not.

FeXL
Nov 28th, 2017, 04:30 PM
Further on the Baltimore black student graduation debacle.

Black self-sabotage (http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/guest-column-black-self-sabotage)

The educational achievement of white youngsters is nothing to write home about, but that achieved by blacks is nothing less than disgraceful.

Let’s look at a recent example of an educational outcome all too common. In 2016, in 13 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, not a single student scored proficient on the state’s mathematics exam. In six other high schools, only 1% tested proficient in math. In raw numbers, 3,804 Baltimore students took the state’s math test, and 14 tested proficient. Citywide, only 15% of Baltimore students passed the state’s English test.

Last spring, graduation exercises were held at one Baltimore high school, 90% of whose students received the lowest possible math score. Just one student came even close to being proficient. Parents and family members applauded the conferring of diplomas. Some of the students won achievement awards and college scholarships.

M'bold.

Whose zoomin' whom, here?

Much the same as undergraduates being allowed on stage with graduating students here, it's not the diploma that's important. It's the process. No one is excluded & participation trophies for all...

FeXL
Nov 30th, 2017, 12:17 PM
I think it's fabulous. Reap what ya sow...

Almost Every Graduate Of DC High School Was Truant, Yet All Of Them Were Accepted To College (http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/28/almost-every-graduate-of-dc-high-school-was-truant-yet-all-of-them-were-accepted-to-college/)

The majority of graduating students at a Washington, D.C. high school did not attend more than six weeks of high school, but still managed to get into college, an investigation into the students’ records found.

More:

Almost half of the graduates had unexcused absences that totaled to more than three months of missed school, documents obtained by NPR and WAMU reveal. About 20 percent of the high school graduates were absent more times than they were present for classes, emails and records also show.

The District of Columbia Public Schools system policy states that students who misses a class more than 30 times should fail that class, according to WAMU.

Rhetorical question for all you edumacators out there: How do you miss a class 30 or more times & still manage a passing grade...

Further:

Some teachers who spoke to the outlet said they felt they had to graduate failing students due to pressure from the high school administration. Other teachers said the lack of expectations allowed students to do what they wanted and not show up for class.

“This is [the] biggest way to keep a community down. To graduate students who aren’t qualified, send them off to college unprepared, so they return to the community to continue the cycle,” the teacher said.

M'bold.