: Let's Rewrite English Grammar!


Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 12:18 PM
Languages change over time, and so do the rules of those languages. I was wondering what rules eMac'ers would change in the English language if they could write new rules.

As an example, I would change all the rules with the verb Be, no more I am, He or she is, they are etc... it would be I be working, she be here, they be there...

Your turn..

Macfury
Apr 1st, 2017, 12:24 PM
I don't want you to think that your thread is not interesting. I'm actually really happy with the rules of grammar as they are.

Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 12:25 PM
I don't want you to think that your thread is not interesting. I'm actually really happy with the rules of grammar as they are.

No problem Macfury, your opinion counts. Thanks for your reply.

Dr.G.
Apr 1st, 2017, 01:05 PM
An interesting question, Rp. Part of me agrees with Macfury, maybe because I use grammar well now ............... but if I was learning to speak once again, and my parents used the "new grammar", I wonder if learning to speak well would have come easier?

"I done did it good when I learn to talk way back then ............ so why change when there not reason to change how I talk good ....................... even with a New York City accent?" :D

Macfury
Apr 1st, 2017, 01:33 PM
Dr. G., you New Yorkers are snake erl salesmen.

Freddie_Biff
Apr 1st, 2017, 01:44 PM
I like the "because" phrase, where it's not necessary to spell out the whole argument every time. As in, climate change is a very real problem in our world today. Because science.

















(let's see if the predictable reaction comes...)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SINC
Apr 1st, 2017, 01:46 PM
I too see no need for change other than perhaps to stop wincing at the grammar people use online.

Macfury
Apr 1st, 2017, 02:22 PM
I like the "because" phrase, where it's not necessary to spell out the whole argument every time. As in, climate change is a very real problem in our world today. Because science.

That's fine for casual conversation among people who agree with each other. Not sure it would work in any formal sense.

In response, the rational person might say: "Climate change is not a real problem in our world today. Because science." I'm not sure that this brand of grammar would do much but identify tribes. How about some other examples:

The Roman Empire fell. Because history.
12 + 3 = 19. Because math.

Are these OK?

Freddie_Biff
Apr 1st, 2017, 02:33 PM
That's fine for casual conversation among people who agree with each other. Not sure it would work in any formal sense.



In response, the rational person might say: "Climate change is not a real problem in our world today. Because science." I'm not sure that this brand of grammar would do much but identify tribes. How about some other examples:







Are these OK?



Yup, now you're getting it. The youth of today will understand you better.

Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 02:35 PM
I tell my students there are 3 types of English... Friendspeak, which is what they use with their friends and family; Common, which is what we hear on broadcasts or read in newspapers; and Formal,, used when communicating with people of respect or authority. Maybe we could eliminate Common and Formal. Business letters would be a lot shorter and I be in favour of that.

Dr.G.
Apr 1st, 2017, 02:40 PM
Dr. G., you New Yorkers are snake erl salesmen.

Well, my faddah ust to sell boids on toidy toid street. :D

screature
Apr 1st, 2017, 02:45 PM
Languages change over time, and so do the rules of those languages. I was wondering what rules eMac'ers would change in the English language if they could write new rules.

As an example, I would change all the rules with the verb Be, no more I am, He or she is, they are etc... it would be I be working, she be here, they be there...

Your turn..

Although I agree with what you are saying in general in terms of language always changing, I do not like the example that you provided. I think that the English language is already one of the most accommodating languages when it comes to being verbal or written despite the "rules".

The English spoken/written language tends to just "get on with it" and absorbs most of what comes its way and is more interested in understanding and communication rather than "rules" of grammar.

So I don't have any specific suggestions at this point, but it is a very good thought experiment. I will ruminate on it some and post again when I can up with some specific examples/suggestions.

Freddie_Biff
Apr 1st, 2017, 02:47 PM
I tell my students there are 3 types of English... Friendspeak, which is what they use with their friends and family; Common, which is what we hear on broadcasts or read in newspapers; and Formal,, used when communicating with people of respect or authority. Maybe we could eliminate Common and Formal. Business letters would be a lot shorter and I be in favour of that.


And maybe we should eliminate all those spelling rules too. I mean, Siri and autocorrect can't catch them all, and maybe we should be spelling fonetiklee anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 02:55 PM
And maybe we should eliminate all those spelling rules too. I mean, Siri and autocorrect can't catch them all, and maybe we should be spelling fonetiklee anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe, but what would you do with "Bear" and "Bare" It would make more sense to change REcord and reCORD, or Convict and conVICT. Siri might have issues.

However, spelling and grammar are two different things....but I do see your point. It would be nice to have a one word, one meaning, one pronunciation wouldn't it?

Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:00 PM
Hi Screature, how about text short cuts. LOL, LMAO, MILF, do we accept those as acceptable since they are widely used..... just a question.

Freddie_Biff
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:06 PM
Maybe, but what would you do with "Bear" and "Bare" It would make more sense to change REcord and reCORD, or Convict and conVICT. Siri might have issues.



However, spelling and grammar are two different things....but I do see your point. It would be nice to have a one word, one meaning, one pronunciation wouldn't it?


Or perhaps laissez-faire, which seems to be how the world is going, at least with respect to spelling and texting. Grammatically, one that drives me nuts is when someone gets in the intercom at school and says, "If the grade 12's could come down to the gym now." And I'm thinking, and then what? You can't just announce a subordinate clause like that and leave people hanging!

Freddie_Biff
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:08 PM
Hi Screature, how about text short cuts. LOL, LMAO, MILF, do we accept those as acceptable since they are widely used..... just a question.


And then there's the abbrevs for the old folks.

FWIW: Forgot Where I Was

BTW: Bring The Wheelchair

ROFL... CGU: Rolling On The Floor Laughing... And Can't Get Up

DWI: Driving While Incontinent

LOL: Living On Lipitor

OMG: Oy, My Grandchildren!

OMG: Ouch, My Groin!

IMHO: Is My Hearing-Aid On?

WTF: What's Today's Fish?

WTF: Wet The Furniture

IMHMO: In My HMO...

RULKM: Are You Leaving Kids Money?

BYOT: Bring Your Own Teeth

GTG: Gotta Groan

TGIF: Thank Goodness It's Four (Four O'Clock - Early Bird Special)

FWB: Friend With Betablockers

FYI: For Your Indigestion...

JK: Just Kvetching

TTYL: Talk To You Louder

MILF: Meal I'd Like To Forget

LMDO: Laughing My Dentures Out

LWO: Lawrence Welk's On

MGAD: My Grandson's A Doctor

SUS: Speak Up, Sonny

WIWYA: When I Was Your Age

GOML: Get Off My Lawn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:10 PM
Or perhaps laissez-faire, which seems to be how the world is going, at least with respect to spelling and texting. Grammatically, one that drives me nuts is when someone gets in the intercom at school and says, "If the grade 12's could come down to the gym now." And I'm thinking, and then what? You can't just announce a subordinate clause like that and leave people hanging!

Or how about CD's when it should be CDs.....and similar.

Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:12 PM
And then there's the abbrevs for the old folks.

FWIW: Forgot Where I Was

BTW: Bring The Wheelchair

ROFL... CGU: Rolling On The Floor Laughing... And Can't Get Up

DWI: Driving While Incontinent

LOL: Living On Lipitor

OMG: Oy, My Grandchildren!

OMG: Ouch, My Groin!

IMHO: Is My Hearing-Aid On?

WTF: What's Today's Fish?

WTF: Wet The Furniture

IMHMO: In My HMO...

RULKM: Are You Leaving Kids Money?

BYOT: Bring Your Own Teeth

GTG: Gotta Groan

TGIF: Thank Goodness It's Four (Four O'Clock - Early Bird Special)

FWB: Friend With Betablockers

FYI: For Your Indigestion...

JK: Just Kvetching

TTYL: Talk To You Louder

MILF: Meal I'd Like To Forget

LMDO: Laughing My Dentures Out

LWO: Lawrence Welk's On

MGAD: My Grandson's A Doctor

SUS: Speak Up, Sonny

WIWYA: When I Was Your Age

GOML: Get Off My Lawn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like these.:lmao::-(:lmao::lmao:

Macfury
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:13 PM
Or perhaps laissez-faire, which seems to be how the world is going, at least with respect to spelling and texting. Grammatically, one that drives me nuts is when someone gets in the intercom at school and says, "If the grade 12's could come down to the gym now." And I'm thinking, and then what? You can't just announce a subordinate clause like that and leave people hanging!

Someone I know really hates one that you just used:

one that drives me nuts is when someone gets in the intercom

They would change it to "occurs when."

Freddie_Biff
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:14 PM
Or how about CD's when it should be CDs.....and similar.


Yeah, as a species, we're not entirely consistent on how to make plurals, are we?

Macfury
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:15 PM
Or how about CD's when it should be CDs.....and similar.

I see no excuse for that one!

Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:17 PM
I see no excuse for that one!

Check a flyer or sign near you.... I see this quite often.

screature
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:17 PM
I tell my students there are 3 types of English... Friendspeak, which is what they use with their friends and family; Common, which is what we hear on broadcasts or read in newspapers; and Formal,, used when communicating with people of respect or authority. Maybe we could eliminate Common and Formal. Business letters would be a lot shorter and I be in favour of that.

I would not be in favour of that, they all server their purpose, that is why they exist in the first place.

English is already very diverse and "rules" are broken all the time. There are hardly any "rules" that are adhered to by any more at all.

I think, I may be wrong, what you are getting at is that depending on your patois you could be judged in one way or the other because of the way you speak or write the English language. I get that, it happens all the time.

BUT, whether or not you speak the King or Queen's English in this day and age it really doesn't matter that much depending on who you are and what you are doing and where you are... e.g. you are in London and go into an after hours club and insist that the people around you speak "proper" English, maybe you could make it out alive but you would probably receive a "proper" beating.

Rps
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:20 PM
I agree "biggly"

Macfury
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:20 PM
Check a flyer or sign near you.... I see this quite often.

Yes, I see it too. I will always respond by extrapolating: "The CD is".

Macfury
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:21 PM
e.g. you are in London and go into an after hours club and insist that the people around you speak "proper" English, maybe you could make it out alive but you would probably receive a "proper" beating.

Ha!

Dr.G.
Apr 1st, 2017, 03:56 PM
I agree "biggly"

"Biggly" or Big League? :D

Freddie_Biff
Apr 1st, 2017, 04:13 PM
Someone I know really hates one that you just used:







They would change it to "occurs when."


Come to think of it, "getting in" the intercom is even worse than "getting on" the intercom, perhaps in the same way someone "getting in" your face would be marginally better than "getting on" your face, which reminds me of that scene from The Thing. Worse yet, I think, would be someone "getting it on" your face. [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hexdiy
Apr 1st, 2017, 06:48 PM
And then there's the abbrevs for the old folks.

FWIW: Forgot Where I Was

BTW: Bring The Wheelchair

ROFL... CGU: Rolling On The Floor Laughing... And Can't Get Up

DWI: Driving While Incontinent

LOL: Living On Lipitor

OMG: Oy, My Grandchildren!

OMG: Ouch, My Groin!

IMHO: Is My Hearing-Aid On?

WTF: What's Today's Fish?

WTF: Wet The Furniture

IMHMO: In My HMO...

RULKM: Are You Leaving Kids Money?

BYOT: Bring Your Own Teeth

GTG: Gotta Groan

TGIF: Thank Goodness It's Four (Four O'Clock - Early Bird Special)

FWB: Friend With Betablockers

FYI: For Your Indigestion...

JK: Just Kvetching

TTYL: Talk To You Louder

MILF: Meal I'd Like To Forget

LMDO: Laughing My Dentures Out

LWO: Lawrence Welk's On

MGAD: My Grandson's A Doctor

SUS: Speak Up, Sonny

WIWYA: When I Was Your Age

GOML: Get Off My Lawn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ouch, that surely is a nasty one! LOL.

Arkay
Apr 2nd, 2017, 11:41 AM
e.g. you are in London and go into an after hours club and insist that the people around you speak "proper" English, maybe you could make it out alive but you would probably receive a "proper" beating.

No English gentleman's club would tolerate a proper beating, but it certainly would tolerate a proper thrashing.

Proper beatings are reserved for English gentlemen's sons by their top schools' headmasters for not breaking the ice in all the classroom inkwells each morning.

Macfury
Apr 2nd, 2017, 12:55 PM
No English gentleman's club would tolerate a proper beating, but it certainly would tolerate a proper thrashing.

Proper beatings are reserved for English gentlemen's sons by their top schools' headmasters for not breaking the ice in all the classroom inkwells each morning.

A thrashing would involve fisticuffs, while a beating would probably involve a cane of carefully selected rattan.

Dr.G.
Apr 2nd, 2017, 08:14 PM
https://laughingsquid.com/new-york-times-quiz-uses-idiomatic-phrases-to-plot-linguistic-differences-of-spoken-english-on-map/

An interesting article.

Dr.G.
Apr 2nd, 2017, 08:20 PM
https://laughingsquid.com/new-york-times-quiz-uses-idiomatic-phrases-to-plot-linguistic-differences-of-spoken-english-on-map/

Just took the quiz. I was not surprised that I scored most like someone born and raised in New York City.

Macfury
Apr 2nd, 2017, 08:28 PM
Seattle!

https://laughingsquid.com/new-york-times-quiz-uses-idiomatic-phrases-to-plot-linguistic-differences-of-spoken-english-on-map/

Just took the quiz. I was not surprised that I scored most like someone born and raised in New York City.

Dr.G.
Apr 2nd, 2017, 08:40 PM
Seattle!

Interesting. Did you expect this result?

Macfury
Apr 2nd, 2017, 08:42 PM
Interesting. Did you expect this result?

No! I know a lot of the terms used in different parts of North America, but I was honest in the terms I did use.

I think I'm the only person in my area who says he's carrying a sack of groceries though.

SINC
Apr 2nd, 2017, 09:07 PM
Seattle for me too.

Arkay
Apr 2nd, 2017, 09:39 PM
A thrashing would involve fisticuffs, while a beating would probably involve a cane of carefully selected rattan.

I never saw Winston without his stick, which is why Ramsay always gave him a wide birth.

Oxford's definition of thrashing uses both terms interchangeably, though I submit that "thrashing" is more refeened.

Macfury
Apr 2nd, 2017, 10:03 PM
Sir Bertram? I think it's "berth" unless I'm missing a joke!

I never saw Winston without his stick, which is why Ramsay always gave him a wide birth.

Oxford's definition of thrashing uses both terms interchangeably, though I submit that "thrashing" is more refeened.

Arkay
Apr 2nd, 2017, 10:09 PM
Sir Bertram? I think it's "berth" unless I'm missing a joke!

No, no joke missed. I meant Ramsay MacDonald and typoed berth.

A sound thrashing is in order.

Macfury
Apr 2nd, 2017, 10:22 PM
No, no joke missed. I meant Ramsay MacDonald and typoed berth.

A sound thrashing is in order.

Choose your rattan!

I looked up Ramsay MacDonald. I don't think I would have like him!

Churchill quote:

ďI remember when I was a child, being taken to the celebrated Barnumís Circus, which contained an exhibition of freaks and monstrosities, but the exhibit on the programme which I most desired to see was the one described as ďThe Boneless WonderĒ. My parents judged that the spectacle would be too demoralising and revolting for my youthful eye and I have waited fifty years, to see the The Boneless Wonder sitting on the Treasury Bench.ď

Arkay
Apr 2nd, 2017, 11:29 PM
Choose your rattan!

Hmmm. This one. (https://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1592837/263506349/stock-photo-relaxing-rattan-sofa-at-swimming-pool-263506349.jpg)

Macfury
Apr 2nd, 2017, 11:54 PM
Give that sofa a sound thrashing!

Rps
Apr 3rd, 2017, 10:34 AM
No! I know a lot of the terms used in different parts of North America, but I was honest in the terms I did use.

I think I'm the only person in my area who says he's carrying a sack of groceries though.

My mother used the word sack, I use bag. My location would best be said as a Great Laker.....

Rps
Apr 3rd, 2017, 10:37 AM
That reminds me of the story about Quebec Government regulations trying to limit ships docking during the summer in Quebec City. It was roundly defeated as they were against berth control.

screature
Apr 3rd, 2017, 01:01 PM
No English gentleman's club would tolerate a proper beating, but it certainly would tolerate a proper thrashing.

Proper beatings are reserved for English gentlemen's sons by their top schools' headmasters for not breaking the ice in all the classroom inkwells each morning.

:lmao:

screature
Apr 3rd, 2017, 01:27 PM
"Wouldn't you rather ride "in" the airplane?"

Some people do like the thrill of riding on an airplane.

77777

77769

77785

But personally, yes I would rather be on the inside, with drinks, snacks and movies to watch on tiny screens.

Rps
Apr 3rd, 2017, 05:13 PM
Yes, our usage standard is funny. We ride on a train, on a plane,or on a bus, in a car. We never ride in a train or in a plane or in a bus or on a car.

Rps
Apr 3rd, 2017, 05:17 PM
I don't like the attitude of my urologist. I find he can be quite testis at times.

Macfury
Apr 3rd, 2017, 05:31 PM
I don't like the attitude of my urologist. I find he can be quite testis at times.

There was a constipated mathematician around here who said he had a real problem. But he worked it out with a pencil.

screature
Apr 3rd, 2017, 06:36 PM
Ha!

Arkay
Apr 3rd, 2017, 06:46 PM
Yes, our usage standard is funny. We ride on a train, on a plane,or on a bus, in a car. We never ride in a train or in a plane or in a bus or on a car.

Riding on a bus may date from Victorian Londonís omnibuses (http://knowledgeoflondon.com/images/omnibus.jpg). (People paid to ride up there?)

Flying on a plane came about when the horse pulling the omnibus morphed into Pegasus and flew to freedom ó along with the passengers.

Itís a little-known fact that they all fell into the channel when Pegasus flew upside down. Thatís why we know so little about it.

Nuclear-powered aircraft carriers still sail (as do submarines, which is very expensive because all that canvas rots inside of a week under water and itís hellish trying not to fall off the ratlines while setting rotting topsails in bare feet half a mile down), we still type on computers and videos are still taped.

How can anyone be in bare feet, anyway?

Rps
Apr 4th, 2017, 04:09 PM
In the "wonder what they meant by that" department....

The owner of a very small company got a letter from the labor board. They asked "How many employees do you have, broken down by sex". He answered "None that I know of. Alcohol is the big problem here"