: Apple has a great (i)OS, but their packaged programs suck


screature
Mar 16th, 2017, 07:00 PM
Pages sucks, Keynote sucks, Mail sucks, Calendar sucks, Contact sucks, Safari is OK, Dictionary sucks, Siri sucks, iMovie sucks, Garage Band is great... iTunes... well it is what it is...

Take it or leave it Apple is not the be all and end all of computing as Job's had imagined. He had the hubris and ego to think that he was the messiah of home computing, but he was not. He did do many great things in terms of OS development but in terms of industrial design If it were not for Jony Ive Apple would be nothing today cut and dry.

eMacMan
Mar 16th, 2017, 07:39 PM
Cannot believe how far downhill iTunes has slid since version 10. Thankfully I never synced the iPod to iTunes on the newer computer. Would never be able to build the 100 song scrambled playlists I like so much.

Latest Numbers is almost impossible to do a simple column sum, if using a laptop and no mouse. If it has a working fill function I have as yet to find it. Thankfully copy and paste is proving a good substitute.

CubaMark
Mar 16th, 2017, 08:47 PM
I agree with much of what you say. I still use (desktop) Pages / Keynote / Numbers from the iWork '09 package under Sierra. While there are bugs, they are at least known to me, and they're not crippled like the "new & improved" versions are.

It's so disheartening particularly to see what they've done to Pages... :-(

SINC
Mar 16th, 2017, 08:51 PM
Pages sucks, Keynote sucks, Mail sucks, Calendar sucks, Contact sucks, Safari is OK, Dictionary sucks, Siri sucks, iMovie sucks, Garage Band is great... iTunes... well it is what it is...

Take it or leave it Apple is not the be all and end all of computing as Job's had imagined. He had the hubris and ego to think that he was the messiah of home computing, but he was not. He did do many great things in terms of OS development but in terms of industrial design If it were not for Jony Ive Apple would be nothing today cut and dry.

To be fair I use Pages all the time and miss the power the app used to have, BUT it still covers much of what I need every day to maintain my website.

Never ever used Keynote.

Mail is great and I love the way it works for me, far from sucks.

Calendar I never use. I type simple reminders for myself on the desktop and have since long before Calendars was invented. For me it is useless, but our children swear by it to organize their busy lives. (Keep in mind our children are all in their forties.)

Contacts have and continue to be, my go to program and it is fantastic.

Safari has issues and always has for me, but I use it as my main browser and always have.

Never use Dictionary, nor iMovie nor Garage Band so no comment.

Siri is great. Ask it to remind me of something and it does the job, my main use of the app.

iTunes gets harder rather than easier to use, but since the only time I use it is to deal with an issue on my iPhone, I can live with it. When I want to play music, I do so one artist at a time of my choosing with the exception of oldies playlists I use at car shows as background and that performs flawlessly.

My use of Apple differs greatly and it still serves me very well. YMMV.

screature
Mar 17th, 2017, 01:15 AM
The reason why I started this thread is because I was doing an e-mail blast for my wife which is easy peesy with Outlook and Word, very intuitive and straight forward, not so much with Mail and Pages. One thing I hate about Mac's word processing is that you cannot simply cut or copy something into a document or e-mail and make it match the existing format without added steps. If you can it certainly isn't easy.

Also I hate the UI of Pages, for me it totally sucks and blows at the same time.

The built in Apps of Macs may serve the amateur well but they sure are not robust enough for day to day professional or enterprise work.

That is my rant for today.

CubaMark
Mar 17th, 2017, 02:31 AM
The reason why I started this thread is because I was doing an e-mail blast for my wife which is easy peesy with Outlook and Word, very intuitive and straight forward, not so much with Mail and Pages. One thing I hate about Mac's word processing is that you cannot simply cut or copy something into a document or e-mail and make it match the existing format without added steps.

Interesting - that's 100% backwards from my experience. I have to use Word daily (and I've used it since the early '90s with version 5.0) and I curse it to hell and back, precisely for its inability to properly paste and match formatting.

On the Mac, the keystroke is Command-Option-Shift-V to paste and match formatting. Why doesn't that work for you?

One of the challenges I know that many folks who come to Mac from Windows experience is thinking MailMerge is done in Pages, when in fact it's done in the Contacts app (Pages '09 only - Pages 5.0 removed this feature for reasons known only to Apple). Ditto printing labels, which is done in Contacts, not pages, and supports all Avery label formats.

robert
Mar 17th, 2017, 09:52 AM
funny, I don't agree with your assessment at all. I think they do a great job for what they are intended to do.
Right out of the box, you can use your computer. No buying extra software just to get going.
Now, Apple has dropped their prosumer software it seems. I used Appleworks since the beginning and miss it as a Word replacement.
(The local print shop won't even take Word files as there is too many problems between versions)

Most people I know use a computer for web surfing, e-mail, basic word processing and light gaming. That, to me. is why the iPad/tablets are so popular.

Any prosumer and up user does need to look beyond Apple to get their needs met though.

Greg H
Mar 17th, 2017, 10:23 AM
I use the Microsoft word and excel only. Pages and Numbers are not for professional work. I use Keynote over Powerpoint as it is (and still mostly is even since they dumbed it down) very simple and intuitive to use. I also use contacts, dictionary, mail and safari every day. Rarely use iTunes. I will say this however, I honestly believe that when it come to software (and to a certain degree hardware these days) Apple is on the decline. Two reasons: 1) their direction is bottom line driven rather than product line driven (the accountants are running the show) and 2) they've become complacent and lazy. Now if I had all that money, I'd have a rough time going to work every day too, but the sad reality appears to be that Apple is looking like the pre 1997 Apple. Lost. I hate the fact that iOS and MacOS are so different. My MacBook Pro is my everyday machine in a PC office. I've been using them since 1986. I buy a new loaded machine every three years. My current machine is over three years old now and their latest offering is very disappointing from both a performance and COST perspective. They're also way too slow in getting new stuff to the market now. I absolutely hate to say it but, Microsoft appears to have a much better approach with seamlessly integrating their mobile and desktop by using the same operating system. I'd love to see an iPad running a souped up version of the MacOS. Hope they can turn it around soon. Remember, Steve Jobs didn't give a rats ass about the money, he only cared about the product. Can you hear this Tim!
My rant! Happy Saint Patricks Day!!!https://www.ehmac.ca/images/smilies/smile.gif

screature
Mar 17th, 2017, 12:35 PM
Interesting - that's 100% backwards from my experience. I have to use Word daily (and I've used it since the early '90s with version 5.0) and I curse it to hell and back, precisely for its inability to properly paste and match formatting.

On the Mac, the keystroke is Command-Option-Shift-V to paste and match formatting. Why doesn't that work for you?

One of the challenges I know that many folks who come to Mac from Windows experience is thinking MailMerge is done in Pages, when in fact it's done in the Contacts app (Pages '09 only - Pages 5.0 removed this feature for reasons known only to Apple). Ditto printing labels, which is done in Contacts, not pages, and supports all Avery label formats.

I have used Word for basically the same period of time at work, I started with version 3.0. Are you using the latest version of Word and not on a Mac? There is a HUGE difference.

So how does one know that? It certainly isn't east to press 4 keys simultaneously and it certainly isn't intuitive and is pretty obscure. With the current version of Word (not on a Mac) simply right click and you see the options as to how you want to paste. Couldn't be easier.

That is the whole problem with Mac apps. You have leave one to do something that you should be able to do in just one app, e.g. contacts and scheduling are included in your mail app, it makes it easy peesy, instead of having to use three different apps.

screature
Mar 17th, 2017, 12:39 PM
funny, I don't agree with your assessment at all. I think they do a great job for what they are intended to do.
Right out of the box, you can use your computer. No buying extra software just to get going.
Now, Apple has dropped their prosumer software it seems. I used Appleworks since the beginning and miss it as a Word replacement.
(The local print shop won't even take Word files as there is too many problems between versions)

Most people I know use a computer for web surfing, e-mail, basic word processing and light gaming. That, to me. is why the iPad/tablets are so popular.

Any prosumer and up user does need to look beyond Apple to get their needs met though.

I'm not bashing Macs, I love them, they are all I own. But that does not mean that I am just some fanboy without criticism and yes even the devil Microsoft does some things better on the software front when it comes to day to day professional and enterprise work.

screature
Mar 17th, 2017, 12:50 PM
I use the Microsoft word and excel only. Pages and Numbers are not for professional work. I use Keynote over Powerpoint as it is (and still mostly is even since they dumbed it down) very simple and intuitive to use. I also use contacts, dictionary, mail and safari every day. Rarely use iTunes. I will say this however, I honestly believe that when it come to software (and to a certain degree hardware these days) Apple is on the decline. Two reasons: 1) their direction is bottom line driven rather than product line driven (the accountants are running the show) and 2) they've become complacent and lazy. Now if I had all that money, I'd have a rough time going to work every day too, but the sad reality appears to be that Apple is looking like the pre 1997 Apple. Lost. I hate the fact that iOS and MacOS are so different. My MacBook Pro is my everyday machine in a PC office. I've been using them since 1986. I buy a new loaded machine every three years. My current machine is over three years old now and their latest offering is very disappointing from both a performance and COST perspective. They're also way too slow in getting new stuff to the market now. I absolutely hate to say it but, Microsoft appears to have a much better approach with seamlessly integrating their mobile and desktop by using the same operating system. I'd love to see an iPad running a souped up version of the MacOS. Hope they can turn it around soon. Remember, Steve Jobs didn't give a rats ass about the money, he only cared about the product. Can you hear this Tim!
My rant! Happy Saint Patricks Day!!!https://www.ehmac.ca/images/smilies/smile.gif

Great post! Happy Saint Patrick's Day to you as well.

JAMG
Mar 17th, 2017, 01:27 PM
The problem with Apple Apps is they routinely break compatibility with past hardware hoping that will force you to upgrade. New iMacs offer me nothing I do not have yet my iphone7 will not talk to my itunes library...

CubaMark
Mar 17th, 2017, 01:30 PM
I have used Word for basically the same period of time at work, I started with version 3.0. Are you using the latest version of Word and not on a Mac? There is a HUGE difference.

On my early-2009 iMac at the office I'm running a Spanish version of Word 2011, and the English version of Word 2011 on my mid-2014 rMBP.

So how does one know that? It certainly isn't east to press 4 keys simultaneously and it certainly isn't intuitive and is pretty obscure.

Well... not that obscure. The modifier keys are shown beside all entries in the menus, and this is under the EDIT menu, where "Replace and Match Formatting" instructs us to use Option-Shift-Command-V :)

With the current version of Word (not on a Mac) simply right click and you see the options as to how you want to paste. Couldn't be easier.

IMHO, it never, ever works properly in Word. It also opens a dialogue from which you have to choose which of the various options for formatted pasting you want to use (and it never defaults to the only one that I use that will cause the least damage to my document: "Unformatted Text". Word drives me batty by randomly changing fonts in a document when I'm copyediting. Delete a sentence, and the rest of the paragraph suddenly switches to Cambria from Times New Roman. It's nonsensical.

And don't get me started with Word's inane inability to receive a dragged-and-dropped image on a page. It's like the Word engineers sat around and thought really hard about how to make the default behaviour of dropped images be exactly the opposite of what a normal person wants. And while a right-click gives you access to things like wrapping, in-front-of-text / behind-text, page alignment, etc., those options are either always greyed out or never actually work: you have to open the "Format Image" palette in order to jump through four different tabs to set all the proper options. Pages 5 is guilty of much the same behaviour by default. (I'd pay money if someone would release an app that modifies the default behaviours of various settings in Pages (any version) that goes beyond modification of the, for example Word's "Normal.dot" template options).

robert
Mar 17th, 2017, 05:25 PM
Yu misunderstand me.
I think letting the professional side of things slide is horrible.
However, the apps included with MacBooks is geared solely toward the consumer not prosumer/professional.
The programs you cited are more consumer based.
itunes and safari and mail do need major overhauls though.

screature
Mar 20th, 2017, 12:27 AM
Yu misunderstand me.
I think letting the professional side of things slide is horrible.
However, the apps included with MacBooks is geared solely toward the consumer not prosumer/professional.
The programs you cited are more consumer based.
itunes and safari and mail do need major overhauls though.

No I think I understood you well enough I was just taking a tangent and I don't disagree with your previous post or the contents of your most recent post.

Except that Macs work wonderfully in creative industries like, music, graphic art, illustration, photography even film and video, etc.

It is just that you have to have 3rd party software for the Pro stuff made by someone else.