: iPhone - Just as cost prohibitive as ever


kloan
Sep 7th, 2016, 04:16 PM
As usual, Apple has priced the iPhone in the realm of insane. Would love the jet black, but of course we have to upgrade to the 128GB... so $1029 + tax for a cell phone. Yeah, that's reasonable.

Meanwhile, they start at $649 US, but us poor Canadian folk get to pay $899 for the base model. Awesome.

Currently, I have 3 iPhones. a 16GB iPhone 5s, a 64GB iPhone 6, and a 16GB iPhone 6 Plus. Even if I were to sell all 3, I STILL wouldn't have enough to get the jet black. :(

Garry
Sep 7th, 2016, 07:28 PM
I don't get what you're complaining about price for.. a Samsung Galaxy Note 7 is $1,060 to buy outright, and a 32 GB S7 edge is 1,009.
$899 for a base iPhone sounds ok to me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

monokitty
Sep 7th, 2016, 09:30 PM
Less crazy (upfront) on contract. That's how I buy my iPhones.

kloan
Sep 7th, 2016, 10:04 PM
I don't get what you're complaining about price for.. a Samsung Galaxy Note 7 is $1,060 to buy outright, and a 32 GB S7 edge is 1,009.
$899 for a base iPhone sounds ok to me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

How is quoting other phone's ridiculous prices any way to justify the price? They're all overpriced. $900 for an iPhone sounds reasonable to you? The original base model sold for $499US.

I guess Apple knows their market. People will pay whatever Apple wants. I'm not drinking the koolaid.

HowEver
Sep 7th, 2016, 10:59 PM
I remember paying a certain amount some years ago to buy an iPhone from an ehMac member. If that price was also insane, should I not have paid it?

Having sold over a billion iPhones, I think Apple knows more about how to price them than I do. That said, sure, I'd like to pay less.

Given the resale value, if you own an iPhone now, just sell it and there's a lot of the cost of a new one, give or take. Doesn't that still work?


How is quoting other phone's ridiculous prices any way to justify the price? They're all overpriced. $900 for an iPhone sounds reasonable to you? The original base model sold for $499US.

I guess Apple knows their market. People will pay whatever Apple wants. I'm not drinking the koolaid.

Garry
Sep 7th, 2016, 11:46 PM
How is quoting other phone's ridiculous prices any way to justify the price? They're all overpriced. $900 for an iPhone sounds reasonable to you? The original base model sold for $499US.

I guess Apple knows their market. People will pay whatever Apple wants. I'm not drinking the koolaid.

So your griping because the cost of a product has gone up in 9 years, like pretty much everything on the planet has..Buy the phone on contract.. lower price upfront pay the rest over the term. I still don't see the problem.. if you can afford it, buy it outright, if not get it on a 2 year term if you want one so bad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

kloan
Sep 8th, 2016, 12:23 AM
I remember paying a certain amount some years ago to buy an iPhone from an ehMac member. If that price was also insane, should I not have paid it?

Why, was it also $900?

I can buy one if I sold all 3 and put in a little more money in, sure, but It's the principle of it. I'm not a f'in sheep, so no, I won't overpay for it. It's a nice device, but it sure as **** ain't worth a grand. I feel sorry for people who actually believe this ****.

robert
Sep 8th, 2016, 07:55 AM
I find, as with most things, it is worth what people want to pay.
I'm pretty sure the "yoots" will all want the new camera(s) in the 7.
This just means that soon(ish) I will be able to pick up a used iphone 6SE :yikes::D:D:D

BReligion
Sep 8th, 2016, 10:13 AM
While i am in no way agreeing with the price points.... All "smart phones" have been extremely expensive since day 1.

I think the problem is for years people had no idea what the actual cost of a phone was. Until the last few years all people ever saw was the subsidized contract price ($199, $299 or even the magical $0) from a carrier. No one ever advertised a real "MSRP", say like the Automobile industry. $30 000 car or 400/month over x months. Back in the day there was no "unlocked" phone with the ability to port your phone to a different carrier, so it almost didn't matter. You always had to buy from your carrier. Even in the early days of "unlocked" or "World" phones you were still buying from a carrier, never the manufacturer directly.

You really only ever became aware of the cost of it when you broke your device while still under contract and had to pay to break the contract. Even then you were paying contract fees and not the cost of the device.
I remember seeing cost sheets from my Telus vendor back in the early Blackberry days and was floored at the fact that $149 device we were handing out was really a $700+ hardware device... and that was in the early 2000's.

Then there's also the "Apple Tax"... Much like there's a "Sony" tax or a "BMW" tax... the cost of that little logo and all the benefits of the brand name/quality get added to it...
Again... not agreeing with it, but just never surprised by it (don't own a Sony TV or a BMW (sadly).

Apple tried the value phone (iPhone 5c) and i think realized the folly of it.

BReligion

polywog
Sep 8th, 2016, 11:04 AM
A new iPhone SE is $579 today kloan. Each generation is incrementally more expensive. I'm not sure how a brand new, flagship phone being twice that price is unreasonable.

BTW, you mentioned that the original iPhone retailed for $499... that was the 4GB (read base) model. It's hardly apt to compare the price of a base model then (ignoring inflation etc.) to the current flagship phone.

CubaMark
Sep 8th, 2016, 11:12 AM
Much as I'd like to have an iPhone (well, I have a 4s that a friend gifted me, but it's locked to Rogers and not worth the $50 to unlock for use here in Mexico), I'm ticking along quite happily with my Moto-G running Android.... though a little more storage space would be nice. My only complaint, and it's really quite minor, is the lack of integration with the Apple ecosystem. But several-hundred dollars worth of complaint it ain't!!

I just gave my brother-in-law a new Android 6 phone to replace his much-abused and much-passed-around BlackBerry Bold 9650 with cracked screen. His kids - our godkids - were being captured in glorious 640x480 or whatever crap resolution that thing had, and he could never get a decent signal. Not being wealthy, of course I went for a bargain: The $58.99USD Doogee X5 Max (http://www.pompmall.com/doogee-x5-max-3g-smartphone.html). It's no iPhone (or Moto-G) rival, but it's a pretty amazing feature set for a crazy low price....

iMatt
Sep 8th, 2016, 11:20 AM
Apple tried the value phone (iPhone 5c) and i think realized the folly of it.

BReligion

Good post, but I have a quibble with this last point: I don't know 5C sales numbers but I see a lot of them among friends and family and they're a good basic phone. They were arguably overpriced for what they were, but that was fixed with the SE, a much more capable phone at a similar price.

$579/$629 (I believe the 64 GB just got a price cut) are not exactly "cheap" but pretty good value for a smartphone that should last 3-4 years and could probably be stretched to 5 if you're more careful than I am.

I think the SE is a great value phone if you're like me and prefer a 4" phone over the bigger models, rather than just being able to tolerate the size for budget reasons. I want a small, unlocked phone... I'm happy.

I'm like the OP in that I'm not willing to pay a grand for a phone and probably never will be, but I think as always, enough people will be willing or will let a contract obscure the true price.

kloan
Sep 8th, 2016, 09:39 PM
A new iPhone SE is $579 today kloan. Each generation is incrementally more expensive. I'm not sure how a brand new, flagship phone being twice that price is unreasonable.

BTW, you mentioned that the original iPhone retailed for $499... that was the 4GB (read base) model. It's hardly apt to compare the price of a base model then (ignoring inflation etc.) to the current flagship phone.

How's that? That was the best they had to offer at the time. The best now is 32GB for the base model 7, for $900+tax. That's not regular ol inflation. That doesn't even account for R&D. Nope, that's more like 40% product, 60% hype and marketing. But they'll keep charging that because people keep paying it. They learned that from Samsung. Look at what people pay for those.. meanwhile, the resale value of Samsungs is crap. At least Apple's products hold their value longer.

Not everything has gone up in price either as technology has advanced. Look at TVs for example. The prices have come WAY down and have gotten MUCH better over the years.

If Apple had actually done something revolutionary with the iPhone I could see the price being more justified. But Instead it's just another incremental update to a rather outdated take on the smartphone. I've been using iOS 10 since yesterday and man what a BORE. They've pretty much done nothing to it but change the look of a couple things and added a couple minor changes. With the hardware these things are rockin, they surely could do something a little more creative with the UI.

kloan
Sep 8th, 2016, 09:42 PM
While i am in no way agreeing with the price points.... All "smart phones" have been extremely expensive since day 1.

I think the problem is for years people had no idea what the actual cost of a phone was. Until the last few years all people ever saw was the subsidized contract price ($199, $299 or even the magical $0) from a carrier. No one ever advertised a real "MSRP", say like the Automobile industry. $30 000 car or 400/month over x months. Back in the day there was no "unlocked" phone with the ability to port your phone to a different carrier, so it almost didn't matter. You always had to buy from your carrier. Even in the early days of "unlocked" or "World" phones you were still buying from a carrier, never the manufacturer directly.

You really only ever became aware of the cost of it when you broke your device while still under contract and had to pay to break the contract. Even then you were paying contract fees and not the cost of the device.
I remember seeing cost sheets from my Telus vendor back in the early Blackberry days and was floored at the fact that $149 device we were handing out was really a $700+ hardware device... and that was in the early 2000's.

Then there's also the "Apple Tax"... Much like there's a "Sony" tax or a "BMW" tax... the cost of that little logo and all the benefits of the brand name/quality get added to it...
Again... not agreeing with it, but just never surprised by it (don't own a Sony TV or a BMW (sadly).

Apple tried the value phone (iPhone 5c) and i think realized the folly of it.

BReligion
That might be true for some people, but I have always looked at the out of contract price for phones. The prices have been steadily going up. Samsung and Apple are by far the worst of the bunch.

If I didn't dislike Android so much, I'd consider getting something like the Honor 8. Nice looking phone with great specs for an actual reasonable price. There are many Android based phones on the market with impressive specs for half the price of flagship phones. You're paying for the brand, as usual. But people keep lapping it up. I guess that's just the way it goes.

kloan
Sep 8th, 2016, 09:45 PM
Good post, but I have a quibble with this last point: I don't know 5C sales numbers but I see a lot of them among friends and family and they're a good basic phone. They were arguably overpriced for what they were, but that was fixed with the SE, a much more capable phone at a similar price.

$579/$629 (I believe the 64 GB just got a price cut) are not exactly "cheap" but pretty good value for a smartphone that should last 3-4 years and could probably be stretched to 5 if you're more careful than I am.

I think the SE is a great value phone if you're like me and prefer a 4" phone over the bigger models, rather than just being able to tolerate the size for budget reasons. I want a small, unlocked phone... I'm happy.

I'm like the OP in that I'm not willing to pay a grand for a phone and probably never will be, but I think as always, enough people will be willing or will let a contract obscure the true price.

I agree the SE is actually a pretty good phone. Still a little on the pricey side, but has considerably better specs than the 5s, so it's a good performer all around. I'm actually using my 5s right now while my 6 plus is at Apple getting repaired.. I have to say though, after using the 6 and 6 plus, this little 4" screen really feels cramped.

I think everyone's right here though.. it's all about getting one on contract. If I didn't hate getting locked into a contract so much, I'd go that route as well. But I have a great deal going with Public Mobile.. and I've also burned my bridges with Rogers and Fido in the past, so I doubt they'd even give me a contract at this point, lol.

iMatt
Sep 9th, 2016, 12:44 PM
Burned your bridges so bad they wouldn't take you back? Don't be so sure. I nuked my bridges with Bell years ago and they still send me their garbage. (I was able to get them to leave me alone for a couple of years but they've started again. Jerks.)

As for form factors... sure, a bigger screen is nice, but to me having a phone that will comfortably fit in almost any pocket trumps that.

kloan
Sep 10th, 2016, 05:02 AM
I guess I have big pockets.. I never have a problem fitting even the 6 plus in my front pockets.

I'm actually really starting to like that new Note 7. Shame I'd have to donate a kidney to afford one.

BReligion
Sep 11th, 2016, 03:38 PM
Good post, but I have a quibble with this last point: I don't know 5C sales numbers but I see a lot of them among friends and family and they're a good basic phone. They were arguably overpriced for what they were, but that was fixed with the SE, a much more capable phone at a similar price.

What I meant by a "value" phone was the fact it didn't have all the features of the 5S (Touch ID, toned down processor, plastic housing) when they were released at the same time. It was a glorified 5 (yes it had a better camera).

Instead they've opted for multiple phones at various scree sizes at different price points... But no "Value" or entry level phone in my opinion.

BReligion

iMatt
Sep 11th, 2016, 10:32 PM
Before the 5C, Apple's two previous entry-level phones were former flagships kept in production for an extra couple years (the 4 and 4S).

The 5C was based on a previous flagship (the 5), as you say, and not significant modified internally. The "old strategy" would have been to just keep the 5 in production, so this was a bit of a deviation.

The SE is also based on a previous flagship, the 5S, except in this case it's an improvement on it rather than essentially the same. It has similar internals to the flagship phones at its release but some compromises (1st gen touch ID, no 3D touch, crappy facetime camera).

Given the similar price to the 5C, I'd say all that makes it an entry-level, "value" phone. The approach is somewhat evolved -- an upgrade of an older flagship, not just keeping one in production -- but it's not all that different IMO. And it means the SE will be relevant for at least a year, maybe two, longer than the 5S (5SC?) would have been if they'd stayed closer to the old strategy.

Kami
Sep 13th, 2016, 03:17 AM
How's that? That was the best they had to offer at the time. The best now is 32GB for the base model 7, for $900+tax. That's not regular ol inflation. That doesn't even account for R&D. Nope, that's more like 40% product, 60% hype and marketing. But they'll keep charging that because people keep paying it. They learned that from Samsung. Look at what people pay for those.. meanwhile, the resale value of Samsungs is crap. At least Apple's products hold their value longer.

Not everything has gone up in price either as technology has advanced. Look at TVs for example. The prices have come WAY down and have gotten MUCH better over the years.

If Apple had actually done something revolutionary with the iPhone I could see the price being more justified. But Instead it's just another incremental update to a rather outdated take on the smartphone. I've been using iOS 10 since yesterday and man what a BORE. They've pretty much done nothing to it but change the look of a couple things and added a couple minor changes. With the hardware these things are rockin, they surely could do something a little more creative with the UI.


Here's an article that you may want to read

Competing with the iPhone's specs is harder than it seems | The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/12/12886058/iphone-7-specs-competition)

I think the article does a pretty good job of spelling out the difference between iPhones and Android phones. Read the comments, too. Many of them are very insightful as to the state of cpu and memory performance in phones

jhuynh
Sep 14th, 2016, 08:19 PM
Apple has always priced their products based on the USD/CAD exchange rate with a buffer that varies depending on the product.

There was a point when Apple priced the iPhone at par with the US price but that was when the USD/CAD exchange rate was hovering at par as well. The reason the iPhone costs so much here is because they just take the USD MSRP and convert it with the exchange rate.

750 USD is currently about 990 CAD and add the buffer in case the CAD weakens, the price of $1029 is within range of what they are charging in the states. I don't get what you are complaining about.

kloan
Sep 15th, 2016, 02:28 AM
You don't get why I'm complaining cell phones cost over $1000 now? Really? Must be nice rolling in all that cash.

BTW, it's $649US, not $750.

robert
Sep 15th, 2016, 08:02 AM
I get it. I use a phone for a phone. However, most people I know or see, use a phone as a laptop as well.
It has moved out of the single use function.
As we have seen in the recent past, people don't need money to own things now a days. Credit/debt is king.
Looking forward to finding a used 6SE in the upcoming months now that the new phone is out. :-) I really like the form factor.

jhuynh
Sep 15th, 2016, 08:03 AM
You don't get why I'm complaining cell phones cost over $1000 now? Really? Must be nice rolling in all that cash.

BTW, it's $649US, not $750.

I was replying to the first post where they mentioned the jet black only comes in 128GB. Jet black starts at $750 USD.
EDIT: I just realised you are the OP so you should have known I was replying to this.

Also, yes I don't get why you are complaining because this is Apple's practice and has been their practice for decades. They have always priced their products in USD first and used the exchange rate to price it in other markets.

Don't blame Apple as they're not the only ones that do this. It's the whole system. It's as if you've never heard of a global economy before. They aren't going to lower their margins in one country just because it costs too much. And in today's world, if they discounted the phone majorly in one country, everyone would just buy their products from that country instead of their home country. People here seem to be taking it personally as if Apple is trying to screw over Canadians but it really isn't that.

Also, you seem to have forgotten the old Sony candybar/slider phones that cost 999 or more back in the late 90's early 00's. There have always been phones in this price range, being able to afford them on the other hand is another matter.

Kami
Sep 17th, 2016, 02:20 AM
You don't get why I'm complaining cell phones cost over $1000 now? Really? Must be nice rolling in all that cash.

BTW, it's $649US, not $750.

It's not just a cell phone. And I think most people recognize that fact.

Read this article

The iPhone's new chip should worry Intel - The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/16/12939310/iphone-7-a10-fusion-processor-apple-intel-future)

The new A10 chip is faster than some Macbook Airs in single core geekbench tests. That's impressive stuff.

Read this and check out Gruber's links to the geekbench results for different Macs. I realize that a single test doesn't tell the whole story but you are paying $ for this level of performance. Maybe we should be surprised that will all the tech packed inside, that the iphone 7 doesn't cost more

Daring Fireball: Geekbench: Android Benchmarks vs. the A10 Fusion (http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/09/14/geekbench-android-a10)

kloan
Sep 17th, 2016, 02:31 AM
And yet it doesn't run a desktop OS, so who cares how 'fast' it is? Bottom line is it IS still a smart phone. Yeah, you can play games, take pictures, check your email, browse the web, etc, and now can do all that faster. Guess what? That's how technology works. It gets better.

Why haven't the cost of iPods gone up as well over the years? I realize they're not quite as feature packed as an iPhone, but the technology in them has certainly gotten better over the years as the iPhone's technology has trickled down, yet the prices of iPod Touches have remained relatively consistent.