: Nothing new...


screature
Mar 21st, 2016, 04:16 PM
It has become boring because there is nothing really new.

A sad state of affairs.

Apple and everything else has just become a series of iterations :yawn:.

What about light technology or nanotechnology? Surely there must there must be some developments on those front.

wonderings
Mar 21st, 2016, 04:54 PM
It has become boring because there is nothing really new.

A sad state of affairs.

Apple and everything else has just become a series of iterations :yawn:.

What about light technology or nanotechnology? Surely there must there must be some developments on those front.

Most boring Apple event I can remember. Apple is not really pushing into anything new, or changing anything they are involved with. Even the watch, while neat is not really light years ahead of anything else, and the prices of the watch bands are completely absurd. I was toying with getting an iWatch as I am wanting to get something to replace my current watch and thought I would nerd out. I don't like the bands on the cheap iWatches but though "hey, I will just buy the cheapest version and then get a band for it" well that was a bust, at least the apple bands. For a metal band that looked pretty generic and similar to all the others metal straps I have, it cost $560+ ... just the band!

Was really hoping Apple would say something about VR or AR, a lot of cool stuff being done there and it is the beginning of a whole new tech and seemingly nothing coming from Apples side. Microsoft looks more innovative these days. Their Windows phone plugging into a monitor basically makes it a desktop PC. I still enjoy Apple products, use just about all of them, but they certainly lost the WOW factor.

macintosh doctor
Mar 21st, 2016, 06:14 PM
It has become boring because there is nothing really new.

A sad state of affairs.

Apple and everything else has just become a series of iterations :yawn:.

What about light technology or nanotechnology? Surely there must there must be some developments on those front.

the hint would be that any new events that will showcase advancements for new products will be in the new location.. as Tim mentioned this is the last event..
but I do agree
-thunderbolt, USB-c are behind on all models
- laptops and macpro are very stale - clients who want do to 4k video are not impressed.

HowEver
Mar 21st, 2016, 07:28 PM
The smaller, up to date iPhone SE is going to sell a ton. It's the right price point and size for millions of people.

So, boring for you, but exactly what millions of people want.

gwillikers
Mar 21st, 2016, 10:15 PM
The smaller, up to date iPhone SE is going to sell a ton. It's the right price point and size for millions of people.

So, boring for you, but exactly what millions of people want.

I think the new smaller iPad Pro should do okay too.

kloan
Mar 22nd, 2016, 04:27 AM
Yeah, super awesome... iPhone 5s with some upgrades inside. New name, shitty price, same old Apple BS. Lucky it comes in pink now. Least they could've done is bumped the memory to 32GB. But no.... this is Apple we're talking about here. Greedy shortsighted c**ts that they are.

iMatt
Mar 22nd, 2016, 10:34 AM
Yeah, super awesome... iPhone 5s with some upgrades inside. New name, shitty price, same old Apple BS. Lucky it comes in pink now. Least they could've done is bumped the memory to 32GB. But no.... this is Apple we're talking about here. Greedy shortsighted c**ts that they are.

Shitty price? It's almost a 6s in a 5 form factor for about the same price as the 8 GB 5C was selling for (now that was seriously overpriced), and $190 less than the 6 still sells for.

That sounds pretty good to me and might prompt me to trade up from my trusty iPhone 5 a few months/a year earlier than planned. But I still have that oldschool tendency not to ditch a device until it croaks, so we'll see...

Prediction: this thing is going to sell like crazy.

I do agree that even offering a 16 GB model is lame, though I don't doubt that there are quite a few people who get along fine with only 16 -- those who completely buy in to cloud storage and streaming media, and those who use their device for phone calls, messaging and little else.

Edit: added "almost" because there are a couple of 6s features missing, like the second-generation touch ID sensor.

screature
Mar 22nd, 2016, 12:56 PM
The smaller, up to date iPhone SE is going to sell a ton. It's the right price point and size for millions of people.

So, boring for you, but exactly what millions of people want.

Yeah, super awesome... iPhone 5s with some upgrades inside. New name, shitty price, same old Apple BS. Lucky it comes in pink now. Least they could've done is bumped the memory to 32GB. But no.... this is Apple we're talking about here. Greedy shortsighted c**ts that they are.

Just iterations, nothing really new or inventive, Google is at least pushing the boundaries. Apple is lagging behind without Steve.

bse5150
Mar 22nd, 2016, 01:33 PM
It has become boring because there is nothing really new.

A sad state of affairs.

Apple and everything else has just become a series of iterations :yawn:.

Apple's grand vision: iOS for everyone. :eek:

HowEver
Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:00 PM
Yes. iOS on a _phone_. Good call there.

Apple's grand vision: iOS for everyone. :eek:

bse5150
Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:04 PM
Yes. iOS on a _phone_. Good call there.

Ahem, also iOS on that PC killer: the iPad. iOS for everyone. It's all we really need.

Greg H
Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:05 PM
This really was an apple "non-event." I'm afraid Apple is losing its way. The lack of a 32G iPhone is purely a greed issue and an indication that Apple has really become just a bottom-line focused company now. I can't think of a single other reason to go from 16G to 64G. No Mac computer refreshes and a subtle hint by Mr. Cook that the iPad Pro (and associated iOS) is the computing platform of the future. (It certainly isn't there right now!) Just when Apple was having a sustained impact in the laptop and computer market, boom.... nothing! I can tell you that, in my circle, there is a pent up demand for new MacBooks (including the Pro) that are current generation technology. Perhaps later this year??? With respect to the watch, unless the friggin band holds data, or extends the battery life, then I DON'T CARE. My Apple watch is equipped with a beautiful $40 Speidel "Twist o Flex" stainless steel watchband, (which brings high praise every time I'm in an Apple store) connected to the watch with a pair of $7 adaptors. Really Tim, even your employees are having a hard time with this watch band thing. I really do miss Steve Jobs. Say what you will, he kept the company focused and in constant motion with respect to technology and truly serving his customers, something Mr. Cook, the bean counter isn't having much success with. I sincerely hope they find their way, before they lose this fanboy (since 1985).

Greg H
Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:09 PM
Oh ya, can anyone at Apple pronounce IMPORTANT properly. I know its petty, but please.!!!!

screature
Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:14 PM
Yes. iOS on a _phone_. Good call there.

How long has it been and nothing but iterations of basically the same thing. Just he same old same old with a few added bells and whistles. Google has at least introduced the Google Glass.

Sure it hasn't taken off financially yet but they are pushing the boundaries. What has Apple done since Steve jobs died? Basically nothing to push into a new frontier. Google is leading the way now and Apple in terms of development and new ideas is falling further and further behind.

Just look at this forum, it used to be filled with excitement about the next great thing coming from Apple and now there is next to nothing, like I said just iterations of the same old same old. Nothing new or exciting. They have enough money that they should be pushing technology forward but all they seem to want to do now is maintain their stock price and not do anything truly original or inventive. They are not taking any risks anymore and just want to maintain what they already have which is in dollar terms is more than many countries.

Once again, a sad state of affairs.

screature
Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:40 PM
This really was an apple "non-event." I'm afraid Apple is losing its way. The lack of a 32G iPhone is purely a greed issue and an indication that Apple has really become just a bottom-line focused company now. I can't think of a single other reason to go from 16G to 64G. No Mac computer refreshes and a subtle hint by Mr. Cook that the iPad Pro (and associated iOS) is the computing platform of the future. (It certainly isn't there right now!) Just when Apple was having a sustained impact in the laptop and computer market, boom.... nothing! I can tell you that, in my circle, there is a pent up demand for new MacBooks (including the Pro) that are current generation technology. Perhaps later this year??? With respect to the watch, unless the friggin band holds data, or extends the battery life, then I DON'T CARE. My Apple watch is equipped with a beautiful $40 Speidel "Twist o Flex" stainless steel watchband, (which brings high praise every time I'm in an Apple store) connected to the watch with a pair of $7 adaptors. Really Tim, even your employees are having a hard time with this watch band thing. I really do miss Steve Jobs. Say what you will, he kept the company focused and in constant motion with respect to technology and truly serving his customers, something Mr. Cook, the bean counter isn't having much success with. I sincerely hope they find their way, before they lose this fanboy (since 1985).

Oh ya, can anyone at Apple pronounce IMPORTANT properly. I know its petty, but please.!!!!

Totally agreed!

iMatt
Mar 22nd, 2016, 02:42 PM
The iPhone SE: just an iteration... resulting in a high-end 4" phone. Sure it lacks the excitement of breaking entirely new ground, but it's actually bucking the market trend. I don't track the Android world very closely, but I've heard there are no longer any small high-end phones, it's all 4.7 and bigger. Just watch, Samsung et al. will have a high-end 4-incher within months.

As for pushing the boundaries in general, hindsight is nice but Apple has never done that at the pace we like to remember.

iMac --> iPod: three years
iPod --> iPhone: six years
iPhone --> iPad: three years
Apple TV as a "hobby" --> Apple TV as not a hobby anymore... Eight years? More?
etc.


Although those products pushed some boundaries, they were all fundamentally just refinements of ideas and products that were already out there, and every single one of them had major shortcomings on release that were ironed out through iteration. That was the Jobs way. And that's why you have things like the Watch that follow exactly the same model. (I'm not a fan, mind you.)

And of course back when this forum was at its peak, we still hung on Jobs' every word as he announced a long-awaited speed bump in the G4 Mac Pro. Apple has always had minor, low-excitement events in between the big, exciting ones. There was nothing about this one (small venue, quiet announcement) that should have led anyone to expect something really big.

screature
Mar 22nd, 2016, 03:15 PM
The iPhone SE: just an iteration... resulting in a high-end 4" phone. Sure it lacks the excitement of breaking entirely new ground, but it's actually bucking the market trend. I don't track the Android world very closely, but I've heard there are no longer any small high-end phones, it's all 4.7 and bigger. Just watch, Samsung et al. will have a high-end 4-incher within months.

As for pushing the boundaries in general, hindsight is nice but Apple has never done that at the pace we like to remember.

iMac --> iPod: three years
iPod --> iPhone: six years
iPhone --> iPad: three years
Apple TV as a "hobby" --> Apple TV as not a hobby anymore... Eight years? More?
etc.

Although those products pushed some boundaries, they were all fundamentally just refinements of ideas and products that were already out there, and every single one of them had major shortcomings on release that were ironed out through iteration. That was the Jobs way. And that's why you have things like the Watch that follow exactly the same model. (I'm not a fan, mind you.)

And of course back when this forum was at its peak, we still hung on Jobs' every word as he announced a long-awaited speed bump in the G4 Mac Pro. Apple has always had minor, low-excitement events in between the big, exciting ones. There was nothing about this one (small venue, quiet announcement) that should have led anyone to expect something really big.

IMatt you make some relay good points, undeniably.

But Apple in the day of Steve Jobs pushed those boundaries and made new and exciting products that simply worked. The previous products were clunky and inelegant, so in that regard while they may have been iterations of other basically non functional products he made them work basically seamlessly, That was his innovation at the time,. But Apple still developed new technology in conjunction with others to move things ahead a la Thunderbolt which never amounted to anything in financial terms. But at least it was an attempt to move things forward. Ultimately it failed, but without risk there is no reward. That is why I see Apple falling behind because they no longer take any risks despite the money they have.

They could branch out into many, many areas but they are playing it safe. Cripes Richard Branson who has a lot less money than Apple is taking some serious risks with his money.

iMatt
Mar 22nd, 2016, 06:09 PM
A lot of first-gen Apple products, while embodying the kind of innovation you describe, have been really limited. They simply worked, but sometimes they also barely worked.

The original versions of the Mac, iMac, iPhone, iPad and MacBook Air are some of the most obvious examples of revolutionary rethinking/repackaging of clunky, inelegant predecessors into initial Apple versions that were badly underpowered, grossly overpriced, or both.

If I can paraphrase your argument, you're suggesting the Apple no longer announces those kinds of revolutionary rethinkings of existing ideas, or takes risks in other areas, because they've run out of creative juice. They've lost the Jobs mojo.

What I'm suggesting is that those revolutions only come along every 3-6 years or so. And, I might add, if you look at the list of things Apple has tackled using that approach/process, and consider those it hasn't, there aren't a whole lot of things out there right now for them to "Appleize". There are persistent rumours about VR and cars. Both make sense, but they're not easy fields to break into, especially cars, so I expect it to take some time. And it's time Apple can afford to take IMO.

As for excitement, we old-time hardcore Apple guys might not be very present in places like this anymore, but today's Apple is vastly larger, wealthier, more successful and popular than the Apple that existed when ehMac was a busy place. I don't know about you, but I for one spend very little time here now partly because Apple is no longer the underdog. It's top dog, and I feel like my fanboyism and evangelism are no longer needed. I still find many of the products great -- this MacBook Pro is an excellent computer, my iPhone 5 at 3.5 years is still good enough I'm not sure I should upgrade, and so on. The only thing wrong with these products is that they're not spectacularly groundbreaking. I don't mind. YMMV.

wonderings
Mar 23rd, 2016, 10:38 AM
https://youtu.be/Bfktt22nUG4

iMatt
Mar 23rd, 2016, 11:38 AM
It's somewhat clever humour and I get it, but the underlying argument that "four-inch phones are soooo three-years-ago, nobody wants this lol" is silly IMO.

Some of us want a phone that fits comfortably in a jeans pocket, can be used one-handed, is relatively rugged...but also has up-to-date specs for better overall performance and future-proofing.

Apple sold something like 30 million four-inch phones last year. Probably a lot of them were 5C's at a similar price to the new SE -- a measly 8 GB storage, guts of the 5 from almost four years ago, essentially a device for phone calls, text messages and little else. That's not a very big number in terms of all iPhones sold, but surely it's big enough to justify a modern (minus a few bells and whistles) four-inch phone. I'm just glad I don't give a damn about the front-facing camera specs, seems that's something they really skimped on.

screature
Mar 23rd, 2016, 01:02 PM
A lot of first-gen Apple products, while embodying the kind of innovation you describe, have been really limited. They simply worked, but sometimes they also barely worked.

The original versions of the Mac, iMac, iPhone, iPad and MacBook Air are some of the most obvious examples of revolutionary rethinking/repackaging of clunky, inelegant predecessors into initial Apple versions that were badly underpowered, grossly overpriced, or both.

If I can paraphrase your argument, you're suggesting the Apple no longer announces those kinds of revolutionary rethinkings of existing ideas, or takes risks in other areas, because they've run out of creative juice. They've lost the Jobs mojo.

What I'm suggesting is that those revolutions only come along every 3-6 years or so. And, I might add, if you look at the list of things Apple has tackled using that approach/process, and consider those it hasn't, there aren't a whole lot of things out there right now for them to "Appleize". There are persistent rumours about VR and cars. Both make sense, but they're not easy fields to break into, especially cars, so I expect it to take some time. And it's time Apple can afford to take IMO.

As for excitement, we old-time hardcore Apple guys might not be very present in places like this anymore, but today's Apple is vastly larger, wealthier, more successful and popular than the Apple that existed when ehMac was a busy place. I don't know about you, but I for one spend very little time here now partly because Apple is no longer the underdog. It's top dog, and I feel like my fanboyism and evangelism are no longer needed. I still find many of the products great -- this MacBook Pro is an excellent computer, my iPhone 5 at 3.5 years is still good enough I'm not sure I should upgrade, and so on. The only thing wrong with these products is that they're not spectacularly groundbreaking. I don't mind. YMMV.

Yes to a degree I believe that to be correct, not necessarily completely lost but just playing continually safe.

I agree with this as well, but being top dog means that they are, like I said, playing it safe and not taking any risks which is sad because the can certainly afford to now. They have become boring and ho-hum. It is like when a team of any sport gets way ahead in a match and they lay back and just defend their lead, altogether understandable but still boring nonetheless.

iMatt
Mar 23rd, 2016, 01:51 PM
Well, they took risks with the Apple Watch. I don't claim to know whether it's a success or not (the standard narrative is "failure" but I don't necessarily trust that), and I'm not comfortable with the fashion accessory/status symbol slant of the whole project, but it can hardly be called a safe bet for an easy home run (or a double, if we're talking about playing it safe).

Telling the US government to stick it where the sun don't shine, while promising better encryption/security for future products, is also pretty risky and bold (and correct IMO).

Anyway, I guess we have to agree to disagree. I see Apple differently... a lot of what's going on is IMHO pretty much exactly what Steve would have done. Quiet iteration of successful products, continuing to sell underpowered entry-level models (remember how Apple's base RAM configurations were always a sore point? Now we have 16 GB of storage to complain about), pushing devices relentlessly toward being non-user-serviceable appliances (I think Jobs loved doing this, whether it was for the noble reason that most users don't change anything or the sinister one of pushing people to replace entire systems more often), keeping the Next Big Thing under wraps until that first beautiful but underspecced version is ready for launch.

screature
Mar 23rd, 2016, 02:04 PM
Well, they took risks with the Apple Watch. I don't claim to know whether it's a success or not (the standard narrative is "failure" but I don't necessarily trust that), and I'm not comfortable with the fashion accessory/status symbol slant of the whole project, but it can hardly be called a safe bet for an easy home run (or a double, if we're talking about playing it safe).

Telling the US government to stick it where the sun don't shine, while promising better encryption/security for future products, is also pretty risky and bold (and correct IMO).

Anyway, I guess we have to agree to disagree. I see Apple differently... a lot of what's going on is IMHO pretty much exactly what Steve would have done. Quiet iteration of successful products, continuing to sell underpowered entry-level models (remember how Apple's base RAM configurations were always a sore point? Now we have 16 GB of storage to complain about), pushing devices relentlessly toward being non-user-serviceable appliances (I think Jobs loved doing this, whether it was for the noble reason that most users don't change anything or the sinister one of pushing people to replace entire systems more often), keeping the Next Big Thing under wraps until that first beautiful but underspecced version is ready for launch.

Yes I guess we will. There used to be a time where there was a roadmap for a company's development for technology going forward. I don't see that anymore with Apple.

With all their money they could branch out into Health Sciences, Earth Imaging, Ecology, Climate Change, etc., etc. At this point they have become what they fought against... the establishment.

1984 Apple's Macintosh Commercial

VtvjbmoDx-I

They are now the establishment and seem to be content to be so.

iMatt
Mar 23rd, 2016, 02:23 PM
Yes I guess we will. There used to be a time where there was a roadmap for a company's development for technology going forward. I don't see that anymore with Apple.

They are now the establishment and seem to be content to be so.

Wasn't Apple infamous for refusing to provide technology or product roadmaps? Once upon a time, all we had for a roadmap was rumours coming from "the ship that leaks from the top"... and that's why "one more thing" was such a powerful catchphrase; it usually led to a true surprise.

As for being the establishment, on the one hand it's impossible to disagree on that point, but on the other the whole FBI affair suggests this is still a company with principles.

monokitty
Mar 23rd, 2016, 02:57 PM
Predicting doom, gloom and a lack of innovation since Jobs died also falls under "nothing new." It's been five years. It's time for everyone to move on. Apple still makes solid products and their profits are enormous - in the business world, that equates to success. They're fine without Jobs.

screature
Mar 23rd, 2016, 03:00 PM
Wasn't Apple infamous for refusing to provide technology or product roadmaps? Once upon a time, all we had for a roadmap was rumours coming from "the ship that leaks from the top"... and that's why "one more thing" was such a powerful catchphrase; it usually led to a true surprise.

As for being the establishment, on the one hand it's impossible to disagree on that point, but on the other the whole FBI affair suggests this is still a company with principles.

That has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

I am talking about taking some of their hundreds of billions of dollars in cash and think outside of the box and how you can help humanity progress in innovative ways., i.e. spend some more money on R&D that could be helpful, but not for commercial products to make another buck but to make products that could benefit society as a whole, especially the less priveldged.

Even Bill Gates is doing that and now he seems to be the philanthropist and Steve Jobs legacy seems to be all about greed.

screature
Mar 23rd, 2016, 03:06 PM
Predicting doom, gloom and a lack of innovation since Jobs died also falls under "nothing new." It's been five years. It's time for everyone to move on. Apple still makes solid products and their profits are enormous - in the business world, that equates to success. They're fine without Jobs.

There is no doom and gloom for Apple, I don't know where you get that from I implied or said nothing of the sort. Apple is and will continue to be one of the most profitable companies in the world for quite a while to come.

Yes it is true but not to the point I was making. Bill Gates for example, is a success but he is doing much, much more to help make the world a better place other than making more money.

HowEver
Mar 23rd, 2016, 03:14 PM
In one day, Apple created the most intense study of Parkinsons disease in history.

So, sure. Nothing new except $200 Billion in the bank and helping millions of people reach their potential and get healthy getting there.

This thread is full of sore winners.

screature
Mar 23rd, 2016, 03:49 PM
In one day, Apple created the most intense study of Parkinsons disease in history.

So, sure. Nothing new except $200 Billion in the bank and helping millions of people reach their potential and get healthy getting there.

This thread is full of sore winners.

Quote? What were the end results? Did it actually result in a cure or a viable treatment, I think Micheal J. Fox would say no.

And losers depending on when you invested, again that is not the point. There were plenty of losers who invested in Apple and then there were some people with big money who benefited handsomely.

Were you one of them? If so no wonder you still support their business model. If not then why do you continue to support their business model, that basically supports the rich without any real contribution to society?

Apple has every right to make a good profit but at some point you would think they would start to give back, a la Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

By that I mean investing in technologies that benefit those who are underprivileged and not just those who can afford their products without blinking an eye.

Apple is clearly not required to do so, nor should they be, but it would just be nice if they did. There are so many hundreds if not thousands of ideas out there that could benefit society without big profits, they could afford to make some philanthropic investments, they just don't choose to. That is what I am talking about.

Clean drinking water, education, medical research, etc. etc., they just do not choose to do it. With all their money they could do so, so, much more and in the end if nothing else but a PR campaign they would profit by it... No more thinking outside of the box... 1984 has come and gone and now they are the MAN and have essentially changed nothing.

Same as it ever was.