: Maps, maps and more maps


RISCHead
Oct 8th, 2012, 11:11 PM
I've been away from this forum for overy two years - in that time I left Toronto and moved to SF, changed jobs, phones, and now maps!

I came back to see what people thought of the new maps app and whether we had a meaningful and vigourous debate going! I was sorely disappointed :) so I thought I would start a thread.

I jumped the gun and moved my (relatively new) iPhone4S upto iOS6 the day it released. I've no idea what possessed me to do that! :) I usually have to be pushed and prodded into doing anything that major.
Perhaps it was the thought of turn by turn navigation, perhaps it was flyovers, improved Siri, the joys of searching the app store for youTube apps, email and calendar breaking down - who knows - it was one of those days.

Obviously the Apple maps dataset is poor, maps search is ridiculously bad and the crazy dependency on Yelp for any tagged search is unfortunate. The rich detail of Google maps is lost, so is street view etc. This is generally well known even in San Francisco :)

It seems equally clear that Apple will never come close to caching up and building the rich data set that Google has - it seems equally clear that Google won't support the Android turn by turn features on iOS - the strategic thrust being to move people off the platform.

So, why are the (not so) fanbois not raising a ruckus and forcing Apple to action? Are people already so accepting of the failures of Apple now that SJ is no longer at the helm?
Have you all just given up and lay down to die ?
Maybe we need to be less apathetic and fight for what we want rather than simply accept the crap doled out as the result of corporate manouvering....

Before you all whine and chime in with Google's separate maps app and TomTom and Navigon, remember that Apple tightly controls the app integration and none of these work intuitively on the device and are completely unintegrated.

For those that don't care, I guess its fair to say that you don't use maps and you don't care, but I must say I'm quite surprised by the lack of discussion - do most of you really not care?
Or have I gone back to the 20th century? Or am I so SF'ized now, that what I regard as unacceptable is quite within the realm of acceptability for most other people?

Whatever it is, I feel the need to raise it! :) Flame, rant or rave, but people, show some sign of life for heaven's sake!

fjnmusic
Oct 8th, 2012, 11:53 PM
Maybe Apple knew that its Maps app wasn't quite ready for prime time, but that by disabling the Google Maps, it would force people to try other map apps, thereby disabling Google's ability to track you for advertising purposes. It's possible.

phuviano
Oct 9th, 2012, 12:01 AM
So far i've used the turn by turn navigation twice so far. Both times it got me to where i needed to be without issue. I'm pretty happy with the turn by turn navigation so far. I'm not too comcerned about map details, or a street view though. I'm good as long as it can get me from point A to point B.

steviewhy
Oct 9th, 2012, 12:41 AM
sudo rm -rf /

chas_m
Oct 9th, 2012, 01:37 AM
All I can say is that a) Apple's Maps works fine here in Victoria, but then I don't need public transportation so maybe I'd feel differently if I did.

b) It should be noted that installing the Google Maps web app actually gives you MORE features than you had with Maps under iOS 5.

c) Apple rapidly updating data, 3D graphics in iOS 6 Maps | iPodNN (http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/12/10/05/new.3d.imagery.added.to.areas.like.new.york.los.an geles/)

d) Apple's Maps holds its own in head-to-head driving test | Electronista (http://www.electronista.com/articles/12/10/08/faced.off.against.samsung.galaxy.note.gmc.terrain. car.nav/)

Andrew Pratt
Oct 9th, 2012, 12:26 PM
I just used it to drive from Toronto to the Cabot Trail in NS and back...no issues for the most part. I do have the maps.google.ca bookmarked on my home screen but we rarely had to use it.

Bilbo
Oct 9th, 2012, 12:43 PM
I don't think that Apple's Maps are as polished as they need to be, but I am having very little trouble with them. They have my house about three houses down, where Google is right on. then again Apple is right on with my son's house, while Google is 5 houses away.

I'm not giving up on Apple and their maps. It wasn't that long ago that Map Quest was king and Google maps was the new kid with zits. I like Apple Maps under-the-hood vector architecture. Fly-over, while kind of cool is of little value to me. Street view, I do find useful from time to time.

I think that Apple's maps will be fine. Google was holding back map features on iOS to give Android an edge, so Apple needed to do something. Apple's mistake was not labelling their first foray into Maps as a Beta and leaving Google maps alone until the contract was up. That would have bought them some time to get the kinks worked out.

Rounder
Oct 9th, 2012, 01:02 PM
Apple's Maps are not perfect, neither were Googles. I've actually gotten quite used to using Apple's Maps. I used Google Maps regularly for buses in Ottawa, and since iOS6, I've come across the Transit App which is superior to me. A couple of places I've been to were not on the Maps App, so I reported a problem to Apple, and it's already been added.

I think they need this colaboration to make their App the best out there.

DempsyMac
Oct 9th, 2012, 02:11 PM
I upgraded the second it came out, tested out a few things in maps right away and all worked fine. Then I had to travel to Toronto where I always have to rely on a GPS to get me around, I used the Apple maps app to give me turn by turn and I got everyware I needed to go, (down town Toronto, Markham, Barrie and the Airport,) never had an issue, and the fact that I can speak to Siri to get me directions is just amazing now.

To be honest I don't know what all the fuss is about? I see an upgrade and a better system with more features, I understand that this is not the case for all but for my needs it's great!

Joker Eh
Oct 9th, 2012, 03:08 PM
I upgraded the second it came out, tested out a few things in maps right away and all worked fine. Then I had to travel to Toronto where I always have to rely on a GPS to get me around, I used the Apple maps app to give me turn by turn and I got everyware I needed to go, (down town Toronto, Markham, Barrie and the Airport,) never had an issue, and the fact that I can speak to Siri to get me directions is just amazing now.

To be honest I don't know what all the fuss is about? I see an upgrade and a better system with more features, I understand that this is not the case for all but for my needs it's great!

+1

I for the first time over the weekend used the maps on an iPhone 4S and I was impressed. Why they couldn't given me that on my iPhone 4 sucks but oh well.

wonderings
Oct 9th, 2012, 03:42 PM
I upgraded the second it came out, tested out a few things in maps right away and all worked fine. Then I had to travel to Toronto where I always have to rely on a GPS to get me around, I used the Apple maps app to give me turn by turn and I got everyware I needed to go, (down town Toronto, Markham, Barrie and the Airport,) never had an issue, and the fact that I can speak to Siri to get me directions is just amazing now.

To be honest I don't know what all the fuss is about? I see an upgrade and a better system with more features, I understand that this is not the case for all but for my needs it's great!

It works well in some places, and not so well in others. I tried finding St. Williams, Ontario in maps, did not give me the actual city. Google Earth no problem, as well as my Garmin. It had the city listed as Brantford County or something like that. When in St. Williams, I used it side by side with my Garmin Zumo 660 to compare. It pretty much gave me the same route, but it did have at least one road name that was completely wrong. It still got me home, but information is just not right.

crawford
Oct 9th, 2012, 08:51 PM
b) It should be noted that installing the Google Maps web app actually gives you MORE features than you had with Maps under iOS 5.

That sounds like Apple's defence of its Safari-based approach to iPhone apps back when it was originally launched. It's as weak now as it was back in 2007.

My own anecdotal evidence has not been as favourable as others' here so far. Twice in the past two weeks Maps hasn't been able to find where I want to go in southern Ontario.

But beyond simple anecdotes, the simple fact is that Apple has made a decision that put its corporate interests ahead of its customers and they are experiencing a backlash.

crawford
Oct 9th, 2012, 08:56 PM
And just for fun, here's what I got in Paris shortly after iOS 6 launch. I guess it was close.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8314/8072576929_a9e39f66be_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/robcrawford/8072576929/)

keebler27
Oct 9th, 2012, 09:39 PM
Here are my thoughts:

1. Definitely should have been called a Beta like Siri was. I still think it's a Beta imho.

2. If any company out there has the resources to upgrade/update/fix it, Apple does

3. People forget GoogleMaps wasn't what it was when it started so it's just a matter of time Again, back to 1 and 2, they shouldn't have pumped up as being so fantastic lol

4. I've personally not had any issues driving around Ottawa and to be honest, it navigated just fine when I was hunting in Northern Ontario this past weekend. It was accurate for timing and even had small towns like Mattawa and Callander Bay lol I didn't need the directions, but wanted to test it out.

5. I installed the quick link to GoogleMaps and I'm hopeful they'll turn on the Streetview for the mobile version.

Ironically, I was in Mattawa listening to Siri instructing me to turn left and I looked at the Subway on the right, no word of a lie - there sat the Google Streetview car with all its cameras on the tower. lol

I haven't needed to use Maps for bus schedules or finding a particular store so my use has been purely driving navigation. In the same respect, I haven't used the 3D feature so to me, it looks more like eye candy. I'm hoping it will someday be as beneficial as the Google Streetview as I used that quite often.

Welcome back!
Keebler

slipstream
Oct 10th, 2012, 02:37 AM
This thread ran for a while but petered out:
https://www.ehmac.ca/all-ios-iphone-ipad-ipod-touch-apple-tv-itunes/101686-apple-maps-canada.html
The impression I got was "meh!" -- no biggie. It works to get around in a car, and give it time, Apple has the resources to grow maps.

Our small city is still a POI desert. I submitted some POIs and changes near day 1 but they have not yet appeared, so either the process is slow or I did something wrong.

Like others though, I have used it to get around in the Maritimes and the turn by turn works fine, though I find myself using Navigon more often.

RISCHead
Oct 11th, 2012, 01:01 AM
Cool. I agree that maps data will get richer over time, but so will the google data set - will they converge at some point in terms of there being more than enough base data - probably, but a long ways off.
Turn by turn nav works well - the challenge is actually finding the target location on the map.
I miss street view - flyovers aren't really doing it for me - more eye-candy than anything else.

It seems so much more intuitive that Apple and Google would've reached some commercial agreement to add turn by turn navigation to Google maps on iOS and that would've been the most obvious benefit to the consumer.

Anyways, my need for debate is now somewhat sated :) so thank you all!

wonderings
Oct 11th, 2012, 08:28 AM
Sure it will get better in time, but it feels like a step back (save for the turn by turn) when coming from google maps which worked well on the iPhone.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j164/wonderings/e8hnDOaeo0ynDHSPa2bo7A2.jpg

And I do miss street view, that was a feature I used regularly, now will have to switch between map apps just to use that handy feature.

Joker Eh
Oct 11th, 2012, 09:33 AM
What did people do before maps on a phone in your pocket?

wonderings
Oct 11th, 2012, 09:50 AM
What did people do before maps on a phone in your pocket?

Used a proper gps. I have a very high end garmin gps, used mainly on my motorcycle. I do use it in the car, but its a bit more of a hassle and clutter with the dock, and cables running down to the power outlet. I used my iPhone and it was so much simpler. I really dont need the visual as much as the audio for turn by turn. Its one simple usb cable powered by my car, and audio goes out through bluetooth through my stereo. Its very simple and easy to use.

What did people do before maps in general? No reason to stay put where we are, ever onward!

Joker Eh
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:11 AM
Used a proper gps. I have a very high end garmin gps, used mainly on my motorcycle. I do use it in the car, but its a bit more of a hassle and clutter with the dock, and cables running down to the power outlet. I used my iPhone and it was so much simpler. I really dont need the visual as much as the audio for turn by turn. Its one simple usb cable powered by my car, and audio goes out through bluetooth through my stereo. Its very simple and easy to use.

What did people do before maps in general? No reason to stay put where we are, ever onward!

:lmao:, even before that I meant. Men never used maps before did we? ;):lmao:

HowEver
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:32 AM
We had adventures.

What did people do before maps on a phone in your pocket?

Joker Eh
Oct 11th, 2012, 11:02 AM
We might not be far off from this.

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/112/1124796/BigBang2_1285940016.jpg

RISCHead
Oct 11th, 2012, 08:01 PM
Not to derail my own thread, but its already here :)
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keebler27
Oct 11th, 2012, 10:00 PM
It seems so much more intuitive that Apple and Google would've reached some commercial agreement to add turn by turn navigation to Google maps on iOS and that would've been the most obvious benefit to the consumer.

Anyways, my need for debate is now somewhat sated :) so thank you all!

From what I've read, SJ was pretty ticked off (surprise? :) that Google wasn't willing to give Apple access to the turn x turn. An interesting decision.

Let's hope we keep giving it the feedback it needs to improve quickly :)

niemritzrick
Oct 12th, 2012, 11:22 AM
This vid sums up how I feel about apple maps, BANNED iOS 6 Maps Ad - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx_z4wBifqI)

bshell
Oct 12th, 2012, 03:55 PM
I got an iPhone 5 and one day I just said into Siri, how do I get to Edmonds sky train station. Boom. In a few seconds I had a map, and a woman's voice started to tell me how to get there. That was a big wow factor. It works.

But yesterday I had to get to something like 4557 West 5th Avenue (this is in Vancouver) and I typed that into Apple's Map app. It put a map of Manilla (Philippines) on my screen. What? I'm in Vancouver, and you should know that, iPhone, so what's the deal with Manilla? I reported it, using the map app's error reporting function.

wilecoyote
Oct 13th, 2012, 11:27 AM
My experience has been has been that the new Apple Maps app is hit and miss. It's awful for fiinding places by simply typing in a key word (e.g. "coffee"). It has for the most part found the places I've been looking for, but there have been some notable exceptions. Coming into Vancouver from the ferry it kept telling me to take an exit that I know doesn't exist. And last night when navigating to an address, it put me on the wrong side of UVic and told me to walk because "it was the closest navigable point!". I had to open google maps which directed me to the other side of the University and right to the front of the house.

So, in my opinion Apple Maps is BETA. It's has a lot of good things going for it, and a lot of potential. So Apple took away a fundamental app that works well, and replaced it with some pretty cool BETA software. I have no doubt it will get better and better, but I still believe this was absolutely the wrong thing to do.

I like Apple products a lot but I don't understand how people can defend this. Of course, we all know that there are some people who, if Apple sold a new iPhone that couldn't make local calls, would defend them by saying, "Hey, if you are so attached to your phone that you need to constantly make local calls instead of visiting people, then maybe you should re-evaluate your life."

fjnmusic
Oct 13th, 2012, 03:45 PM
Perhaps Apple felt that Google's refusal to add turn-by-turn to iOS Google Maps was giving Android devices an unfair advantage. Perhaps they got tired of waiting for improvements just like they got tired of Flash. Five years later, Flash doesn't seem like such a big loss, and at the moment I'd say Google is probably going to be hurting more since they lose out on the potential ad revenue from all the new iPhone 5/iOS6 customers, whose pockets tend to be z little deeper than those of Android users. This too shall sort itself out, pain in the @ss that it is.

wilecoyote
Oct 13th, 2012, 03:53 PM
Perhaps Apple felt that Google's refusal to add turn-by-turn to iOS Google Maps was giving Android devices an unfair advantage.
...


I agree - this had a lot to do with Apple's battle with Google, and not wanting to be beholden in any way to the company that is competing with you. Fair enough and a very good reason to start your own Maps app.

But that in no way excuses them for replacing a mature app with a beta app, and somewhat stealthily foisting it upon their customers.

fjnmusic
Oct 13th, 2012, 04:00 PM
I agree - this had a lot to do with Apple's battle with Google, and not wanting to be beholden in any way to the company that is competing with you. Fair enough and a very good reason to start your own Maps app.

But that in no way excuses them for replacing a mature app with a beta app, and somewhat stealthily foisting it upon their customers.

Agreed. Which is why I'm sticking with iOS5, so I can have my Maps and Street View too.

Lawrence
Oct 13th, 2012, 04:04 PM
If only I'd known...Arrrggghhhhhh!!!!!
Apple just has to allow back tracking to 5.1.1

Must have Google maps....The sky has fallen...Arghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mocha
Oct 14th, 2012, 11:11 AM
In the city, Apple maps steered me left instead as the last turn towards my destination. When I entered the directions in the next day, they were correct.
Other than that, directions have been flawless in Toronto.
Up near Walters Falls & Blue Mountain, entering in full addresses got me nowhere; Maps couldn't find a thing. Google struggled as well though, and in one instance, gave me a destination and a route.... WHICH WAS INCORRECT.

Both solutions are less than prefect outside the city in my experience, but I would say Apple maps is far from being tragically flawed - it definitely needs more POI input as well as a night driving mode like Waze has.