: Kijiji Questions


okcomputer
Sep 29th, 2012, 04:03 PM
I'm selling my iPhone on Kijiji and a seller has asked it is on a contract. Of course it isn't as I have upgraded to the iPhone 5 and paid to get out of my contract.

I said it isn't an even if it was it wouldn't make a difference - I would be on the hook for the contract. It doesn't matter who has the phone.

He then asked for the Serial and IMEI. I said it wasn't necessary and that I wasn't comfortable sharing that information. I then said we could meet at a TELUS dealer and they could check if it was really that important to him.

Am I being paranoid?

i-rui
Sep 29th, 2012, 04:11 PM
no, you shouldn't give out your IMEI # haphazardly.

good call.

John Clay
Sep 29th, 2012, 06:46 PM
no, you shouldn't give out your IMEI # haphazardly.

good call.

Or your serial.

G-Mo
Sep 29th, 2012, 06:46 PM
I'm not prone to just emailing an IMEI and serial to anyone, but, if you are in serious discussions about a purchase/sale, the other person will get this information from a meet-up and inspection of the phone anyway, so, if you intend to meet the person (eventually) there's no harm.

Paul82
Sep 29th, 2012, 11:57 PM
Maybe I'm naive... But why would you be concerned about giving out the serial number and imie number? Ie what can be done with them. About the only thing I know I could do would be to check how long is left on the AppleCare via apples website using the serial number.

krs
Sep 30th, 2012, 01:24 AM
Maybe I'm naive... But why would you be concerned about giving out the serial number and imie number? Ie what can be done with them.

Same here...

As a buyer I would probably want that so I could check to make sure the phone isn't reported as stolen.

As to the question about it being on contract - maybe the buyer meant is it locked to a specific provider.
A lot of non-technical people have a hard time understanding this.
Their comment is "I paid for the phone, it's mine and I should be able to use it with whoever I chose onc my contract obligations are met."

Actually very logical.
If I go the the bell Mobility site for instance - they give you a price to buy the phone outright and a price if you take a 3-year contract.
They are not very forthcoming about it being locked to the Bell network so once the three years are up, if you can't unlock it and you want to switch providers, you might as well throw the phone out - it's useless to you...or aybe you can sell it.

i-rui
Sep 30th, 2012, 02:58 AM
Maybe I'm naive... But why would you be concerned about giving out the serial number and imie number? Ie what can be done with them. About the only thing I know I could do would be to check how long is left on the AppleCare via apples website using the serial number.

Info: Is it bad to give out your IMEI number? (http://cellphoneforums.net/general-cell-phone-forum/t300003-bad-give-out-your-imei-number.html)

okcomputer
Sep 30th, 2012, 09:29 AM
I stated in the ad and in emails that it is locked to TELUS. He is with TELUS, so that isn't the issue.

I think my solution of meeting at store should solve any issues. I may be paranoid, but if he won't meet there and have them check and such, then I wonder about his motives.

G-Mo
Sep 30th, 2012, 09:55 AM
If the phone is tied to a contract, it could not be unlocked at a future date. I suspect the purchasers concerns regard whether the phone is free from the subsidized pricing contract it was purchased under... If I was buying a used network locked phone, I'd want the same assurances.

krs
Sep 30th, 2012, 11:00 AM
Info: Is it bad to give out your IMEI number? (http://cellphoneforums.net/general-cell-phone-forum/t300003-bad-give-out-your-imei-number.html)

OK - but how does one check that the phone one is about to buy is not stolen?
The IMEI number is the unique identifier.

Also - I doubt that comment in the link is correct.
At least not according to this post I came across - even if one somehow manages to clone the IMEI number which needs to be done on the internal chip level, one still needs a matching SIM card to use the phone - just having a cloned phone with the right IMEI number is not enough.

If its a GSM phone, I very much doubt any cloning has occured for the following reasons.

BTW, I used to work for Logica, in the telecoms division, and have a LOT of knowledge of GSM systems, and how they work. I am also a T-Mobile (UK) customer.

Remember these facts:

- A GSM phone has a unique IMEI number.
- Each GSM phone has a unique SIM card with a unique SIM number. This SIM number is attacted on a central computer to your account.
- Although the SIM card does contain your number, it is many for informative, and not operational purposes.

When you switch on your phone and it logs onto your network, it sends its IMEI number, and its SIM number to the network. The network then looks up the SIM number and associates it with a number. As it stands, only one SIM number can ever be associated with a phone number. When i tried getting a new SIM to replace my aging SIM, the old one was disconnected before the new SIM was issued, as it is simply not possible to associate a number with two SIMs. You can associate a SIM with two or more numbers, but not the other way round.

If someone HAS cloned your SIM, and both phones are attached at the same time, the network would register a fault, as a SINGLE sim number is assiciated at two different locations. It woudl create a fault in the system which would prevent both yours and the clone SIM from working. This is actually one of the main reasons why Cellphones are not usable on Planes (even if it is prooven to be safe to the electronics). The phone woudl try to log onto multiple cells at the same time, causing a lot of strain on the network, or even malfunction.

A SIM can only be "effectively" cloned if the original was never used afterwards. If both the Original SIM and the Clone was used at the same time, the network will try and continuesly switch between the two cells its registered to, unless both are on the same cell. if both are on the same cell, further issues would happen.
Has My Cell Number Been Cloned? - Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/story/06/06/23/0329234/has-my-cell-number-been-cloned)

Rob
Sep 30th, 2012, 11:47 AM
This has been an interesting discussion, and I've looked up about some of the things I wasn't aware of. I've bought several used phones over the years, and wasn't aware of some of the potential risks.

Wikipedia says the IMEI number is primarily used as a theft deterrent. If your phone is lost or stolen, you can report it, and the phone could be blocked by the network providers.

If someone signed up for a long term contract to get a discounted phone, they couldn't easily just walk away without paying, since the provider could block the phone. It would be useless to anyone. This is when the IMEI cloning could help a scammer. They could clone the IMEI number from a "clean" phone onto a phone that's been blocked, thus making it operable again. It was interesting that the Wikipedia article stated that there are estimates that 10% of IMEI numbers are duplicates.

It may not be wise to send IMEI numbers out, since those number could be used by scammers to use on blocked or stolen phones.

As a used phone buyer, you'll want to be sure the phone isn't blocked. If the phone works, then it probably isn't blocked. You won't be able to tell if the phone is on a long term contract, however, unless you go through the service provider.

Ultimately, there's no easy way to completely protect yourself. Your best bet is to completely avoid street corner buying or selling. Make sure you only buy from someone that you at least know where they live, so they can be held accountable if something goes wrong later.

krs
Sep 30th, 2012, 12:13 PM
This is when the IMEI cloning could help a scammer. They could clone the IMEI number from a "clean" phone onto a phone that's been blocked, thus making it operable again. It was interesting that the Wikipedia article stated that there are estimates that 10% of IMEI numbers are duplicates.

It may not be wise to send IMEI numbers out, since those number could be used by scammers to use on blocked or stolen phones.

According to the post I quoted the information on the SIM card in the phone would also have to match to get service, just a cloned phone with a valid IMEI number is not enough.

How would a scammer get that without having access to the SIM card?

That 10% number quoted in the Wiki seems way overstated.
If every tens phone had a duplicate IMEI number don't you think that would be an issue picked up by the media.

Rob
Sep 30th, 2012, 02:31 PM
The point was about the IMEI number, not the SIM card. If you're selling a phone, you won't be giving the buyer your SIM card unless you're transferring your contract as well.

If someone buys a used phone they would usually use it with their own SIM card and their own plan. A service provider can block use of the phone if it's still under their contract, or if the phone is reported stolen. This is independent of who's SIM card is in the phone. In order for the phone to connect to a provider, both the phone IMEI and the SIM card have to be recognized as valid. If either are blocked than you won't be able to connect.

The IMEI is used to control inappropriate use of the actual phone itself, while the SIM card is used to control the account with the service provider (phone number).

krs
Sep 30th, 2012, 06:18 PM
The point was about the IMEI number, not the SIM card. If you're selling a phone, you won't be giving the buyer your SIM card unless you're transferring your contract as well.

Did you read the whole thread?

The question was if one should give out the IMEI number if asked for it (very first post)

The quote from some "cell phone guru" in a link that was posted was "Absolutely not since with the IMEI number somebody can clone your phone and ring up bills on your account of thousands of dollars.

The info I posted from someone who works in the business is that one would need a cloned phone plus a copy of the original phone SIM card which they obviously don't have.

So the SIM card aspect is very relevant to answer the question in this thread and the "cell phone guru" is wrong.

At least, that's the way I see it and that makes sense.

Maybe there are other reasons not to give out the IMEI number but I, if I were a potential buyer, I would want it or something else that letz me verify that the phone I'm about to buy for several hundred dollars is not reported stolen.