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Old Jun 20th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #101
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They've had PC tablets like this for a while. They didn't sell well. I don't expect Apple to do that - too gimmicky.
I agree. Likely, laptops will eventually just become tablets with the physical keyboard docking like the ipad is now. Hopefully though iOS will move more towards os x instead of the other way around.

I wouldn't miss the optical at all, I rarely if ever use mine, I'd be fine with a small external at home or office for the few times I do use it. Optical is so yesterday...



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Old Jun 20th, 2011, 04:32 PM   #102
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Also worth noting this full screen approach is likely also done with their provided SDK, which means that any developer utilizing this full screen == one app approach will provide just that, more useless full screen apps for anyone with multiple monitors Apple does make some pretty bad UI decisions sometimes. It really seems like we're getting iOSX 1.0 instead of OSX 10.7. It's fine to "learn" from things they did in iOS, but I really don't feel the need to copy them on my desktop -- they were designed for completely different uses and with completely different input devices.
I think you're right about the fact that Tablets and desktops were designed for different uses and with completely different input devices.

Apple's pretty much said so - and there's been much made of Windows 8's proposed way of having a "touch layer"/widget-like startup and then being able to switch over to the full OS if you want it. Windows 8 is also being designed as one OS to run on both Tablets and PCs.

I tend to agree with the people who believe this approach is misguided. Apple's keeping iOS and Lion separate for a reason. Apple has patents for Touch screen enabled Macs and MacBooks... but they haven't used them yet. Time will tell if this changes, but Apple's clearly in favour of Magic Trackpad-like gestures for the desktop/laptop instead of touch-screen devices.

Your comments about the full screen apps tho -- I agree that it's dumb of Apple to disable the other screens software-wise when apps are launched into full-screen. Hopefully that's rectified in the GM build or in a 10.7.1 or 10.7.2 update...

However, it's not like all Applications will auto-launch into full-screen mode. Full screen has to be enabled by the user and then manually triggered by the user each time. So it's still a choice the user can make (unlike iOS where everything is natively full-screen all the time).

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it also makes me thing that a iMac touch is coming soon
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I dunno about that one, ergonomically it doesn't make sense. It would suck to have to reach up and touch your screen all day long to get things done. They would be good for kiosk style applications, but other than that I don't really see it coming to a desktop near you.
You're right, ergonomically, it's hard to hold out your hand all day, touching a vertically placed screen. But Apple's solution (so far, as evidenced by their patents) is to have an iMac that works as a desktop normally, but then "flattens" down to be more of a giant stationary tablet:


SOURCE: The Mother Lode: Welcome to the iMac Touch - Patently Apple

Not sure it'll ever see the light of day, but this definitely shows that Apple's thinking about it.
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Old Jun 20th, 2011, 05:14 PM   #103
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I still really don't think that they are going to come out with an iMac touch anytime soon, with or without any kind of tilt screen on it. It's just ergonomically bad in all senses. Holding your arms up to interact with a screen is bad, looking down at the table top for your monitor is bad, and having to move the screen in between both just do what you can do now with a standard setup is even worse. yes they have a patent they've applied for with it (a long time ago I might add) but it wouldn't be the first time that Apple didn't make something out of one of their patents ... at that point what's the difference between an iMac touch and just putting a big iPad on a swivel mount?
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Old Jun 20th, 2011, 05:19 PM   #104
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Also just wanted to add that as an input device substitute (aka virtual keyboard) a touch screen device is also still pretty terrible. Anything I've read about good computer interfaces always state one important thing ... we _need_ tactile feedback for it to function well. All of those Minority Report type interfaces floating in the air and such just don't work in real life, and nether does a touch screen keyboard. About the only way i see things sort of combining here is a "touch screen" trackpad approach (like the Cintiq style tablets) where you can interact by touching things that you see right on the surface (but still controlling a standard type screen).
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Old Jun 21st, 2011, 02:54 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by mguertin View Post
Also just wanted to add that as an input device substitute (aka virtual keyboard) a touch screen device is also still pretty terrible. Anything I've read about good computer interfaces always state one important thing ... we _need_ tactile feedback for it to function well. All of those Minority Report type interfaces floating in the air and such just don't work in real life, and nether does a touch screen keyboard. About the only way i see things sort of combining here is a "touch screen" trackpad approach (like the Cintiq style tablets) where you can interact by touching things that you see right on the surface (but still controlling a standard type screen).
Actually you would be surprised what kind of real work you could do this way, when I worked for Ford Motor Company back in the early 80's I did design work on a Pr1me Lundy workstation, it used a light pen, and you pointed and clicked at the screen.

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Prime was heavily involved with Ford’s internal computer-aided design (CAD) product, Product Design Graphics System (PDGS). It used a vectorscope from Lundy for a display. At one time in 1980s it was the world largest integrated CAD system, spanning the US, Japan (Mazda was Ford's subsidiary/partner), and Germany. The creators of PDGS, located in building #3 of Fords Dearborn design headquarters, began working on the concept of parametrically driven geometry, which led to a PRIMEDesign system.
It was later replaced with HP Apollo series workstations running SDRC ideas with a mouse and keyboard.
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Old Jun 21st, 2011, 03:30 PM   #106
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Actually you would be surprised what kind of real work you could do this way, when I worked for Ford Motor Company back in the early 80's I did design work on a Pr1me Lundy workstation, it used a light pen, and you pointed and clicked at the screen.
It depends what you're doing I suppose. Design work with a pen is not a far stretch .. but on a different note I'd hate to try and pick out a single point in a complex line in illustrator with my finger on a touch screen.
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Old Jun 21st, 2011, 03:44 PM   #107
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It depends what you're doing I suppose. Design work with a pen is not a far stretch .. but on a different note I'd hate to try and pick out a single point in a complex line in illustrator with my finger on a touch screen.
I agree, fingers are not the best tools, this is one of the reasons I really wished apple would have made it a hybrid screen with an active pen.
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Old Jun 23rd, 2011, 12:33 AM   #108
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Just saw this over at Macrumors. An apparent email from Steve Jobs. A clean install on a new drive will require on install of snow leopard first. Seems like there won't be a way to make a backup disc of lion. Hopefully this email is a hoax, but I fear this might actually be the case

Lion Clean Install Requires Snow Leopard Disk? [Updated] - Mac Rumors
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Old Jun 23rd, 2011, 01:21 AM   #109
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Just saw this over at Macrumors. An apparent email from Steve Jobs. A clean install on a new drive will require on install of snow leopard first. Seems like there won't be a way to make a backup disc of lion. Hopefully this email is a hoax, but I fear this might actually be the case

Lion Clean Install Requires Snow Leopard Disk? [Updated] - Mac Rumors
This reminds me of installing Leopard 10.5.x onto our then working but "unsupported" 733 GHz G4 Quicksilver Mac a few years ago — not possible according to Apple, but quite doable if one had some extra drives available and a good cloning application available etc.

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see and then look into some other possible options once again with Apple's latest OS when it's released.
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Old Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:16 AM   #110
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This reminds me of installing Leopard 10.5.x onto our then working but "unsupported" 733 GHz G4 Quicksilver Mac...
Unsupported doesn't mean 'won't install.' It means just that - unsupported. If you get it installed and it's buggy as all ever, as expected, you're SOL.
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