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A frustrated Macaholic rants

6K views 56 replies 24 participants last post by  krs 
#1 ·
I don't make a living using my Mac, I just live to use it. My first computer was an Atari 800XL back in the day, then an Atari ST, then a my first Mac a Centris 660AV, then a Power Mac 7300, an iMac rev B, and then a dual G4 450Mhz. I've also co-owned with my girlfriend, now wife, a Power Book Duo 2300 and an iBook. And I have a Mac SE just for kicks. I've been waiting forever to get a new Mac. I've upgraded the G4 with a Giga Designs upgrade from Carbon to a dual 1.6 GHz. I've loved the G4 becuase it has been able to grow over the years, going from 30G HD to a total of 3 HDs for a total of 400GB. I also upgraded the RAM from 120MB to 1.2GB. I added USB 2.0, a Bluetooth key, upgraded the graphics from an ATI Radeon card to an ATI 8500, changed the DVD player to a CD/RW and then to a DVD/RW, and I installed a PCI TV card (by Miglia). I also sold my old 17" Apple Studio CRT and replaced it with a Dell 20" LCD. Yes, I have spent a fortune over the years but it was OVER the years. The G4 was $2200 back in March of 2001 when I got it. You would figure that I could get a whole lot more computer for much less money in 2007, but that isn't really the case is it?

I ranted about this a few months ago in the "My specs for a Mac Apple should make" thread. Every day I see the Dell ads for crappy towers with Pentium chips for like $600. And I look at HUB magzine or TigerDirect.ca a nd realize I could get/make a fairly decent Win/Tel box for $1500 to $2000. A Mac Pro is like mid 3K. I think it's obvious why I wouldn't want to go the iMac route - little possibility of expanability coupled with a processor intended to be used in laptops. Hell, the other day I started looking at the wiki.osx86project.org site. And that would be an option, if I wanted to totally ignore my wife and young daughter while I built it.

I was totally expecting a price drop last week with the announcement of the 8 core machines, but nada. Why doesn't Apple just use an Intel desktop processor in a desktop machine? I don't need Xeon server chips.

sigh :confused:

Steve
 
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#2 ·
You're using Comic Sans in your signature, why should we trust you? ;)

Seriously, Steve Jobs has been very successful marketting to two different groups of people -- the home/small business users for the iMac, MacBook, and Mac Mini, and the professionals -- Mac Pro and MacBook Pro. Undoubtedly if Apple ever wants to start marketting to business they will have to eventually get a midrange headless unit in there somewhere smack dab between Mac Mini and Mac Pro but I don't think it's in their plans at the moment. Is the $2440 base Mac Pro 2.0Ghz still too high?

The iMac in my opinion was built to last 5 years, yes it's a laptop on a swivel basically but it's pretty powerful if you ask me. Great processing performance if you don't need to do hardcore encoding or renderring, great gaming performance for the casual gamer.
 
#3 ·
I think Apple is pretty smart.

The [H]ardOCP crowd is not the target for any Apple product. Why?

Because you can go out today and built your own Mac. osx86 project gets no grief from Apple. Go build your own Mac exactly as you want it - and you will pay way less than a MacPro will cost.
 
#4 ·
lewdvig said:
I think Apple is pretty smart.

The [H]ardOCP crowd is not the target for any Apple product. Why?

Because you can go out today and built your own Mac. osx86 project gets no grief from Apple. Go build your own Mac exactly as you want it - and you will pay way less than a MacPro will cost.

I dont think you can just go buy OSX and do an install. If you have to install off some image floating on the net, then its illegal.

So in light of that, I believe apple should release a dual core tower. Not everyone wants a girly non expandable iMac or mini and building ones own is fine if you dont wanna be 100% legit.
 
#5 ·
rather than upgrade the iMac which isn't easy, why not just trade it in and think of that as your upgrade?

I've owned about 2 dozen Macs in my MacLife and have always jumped to the next one by trading in via a reseller

I get fresher warranty
newer box
expansion when needed (HD, etc.)

I could get/make a fairly decent Win/Tel box for $1500 to $2000. A Mac Pro is like mid 3K
very different markets and aimed at very different users

also, it seems you aren't happy with the current iMac since it has a laptop motherboard
something i don't understand
 
#6 ·
Which resellers offer the best trade-in value (among other considerations)?


MACSPECTRUM said:
rather than upgrade the iMac which isn't easy, why not just trade it in and think of that as your upgrade?

I've owned about 2 dozen Macs in my MacLife and have always jumped to the next one by trading in via a reseller

I get fresher warranty
newer box
expansion when needed (HD, etc.)



very different markets and aimed at very different users

also, it seems you aren't happy with the current iMac since it has a laptop motherboard
something i don't understand
 
#7 ·
Well, my Pismo in 2000 was $3500 plus taxes, plus I bumped it to 1 Gig of RAM and later a 60 G HD. So I had almost $5000 tied up in a laptop.
In 2005, I sold it for $500 and bought a 14" iBook for $1695 plus taxes and then bumped the RAM to 1.5 G for under $200. So I had a brand new machine with 50% more RAM, about 10 times faster in some stuff, 4x more video, a DVD burner, and on and on. So, I have to say, stuff gets faster and cheaper.

Now my new iMac 24 fully loaded was about $3500 and I got a 24 inch screen!
A $600 Dell box does not compare. I built my PC, and the graphics card cost $600, so you can't really go there. I have $300 in the MOBO and another $250 in the CPU.
I considered a Mac Pro, but like you said, it is overpriced. You actually get less for more. I do not subscribe to the notion that because someone gives me an empty PCI slot or an empty AGP slot, I should thank them and hand over $1000.

Like MacSpectrum, I play for 3 or 4 years and then sell up. The Nvidia 7600 on this iMac is great for me. It actually plays Grand Theft Auto SA under XP, which makes me happy.

Just remember, you can't compare an off the shelf PC to a Mac. My PC cost about $3000 to build (that was 2 yrs ago), and I could do it today for about $2200. Throw a 24 inch LCD on that bill and you are pushing $3500.

Eventually, installing X on a PC will be easier, and probably common. That is when Apple will probably begin to look at competing in the hardware segment. Until, then, the 300 people who have managed boot OSX on a PC probably don't seem like a decent market yet.

Meh, what do I know?
 
#8 ·
If you downgrade the processor to Dual 2.0 mhz Xeons on the Mac Pro it comes out to $2440 Cdn., with all the other options at their cheapest. But like the original poster I wish Apple offered more choice in their line-up. If I had any confidence that I could do the OSX on X86 thing without it being a major headache for me, I'd do it in a second. My brain isn't properly configured for that level of geekiness.

I'm still on my closing-in-on-8-year-old Sawtooth PowerMac with the bungy cord holding the door with the broken latch closed, and it works pretty well, but I want my next desktop to be an Intel-based Mac Pro, so at this point, buying cheaper used isn't much of an option.
 
#13 ·
About the Mac Mini

Yeah, Apple finally gave everyone accessability to the platform when they released the Mini. People could just hook up their old monitor, mouse and Keyboard. Now a couple of years have gone by and maybe they want to upgrade. Do they get another Mini, nah, maybe something with more power - an iMac, nah, all ready have the monitor, mouse and keyboard, a Mac Pro, woah, way to pricey.

Can we hear from anyone who bought a G4 mini when they first came out and is thinking of upgrading now?

I know Jobs doesn't want to compete with Dell and HP in the offices and businesses of the world, but if he did want to grow that 3.5-5 percent of the market share maybe he would release the simple tower I have in mind.

Stupid mortgage, daycare, grocery, utility, and transportation expenses!

Steve
 
#14 ·
I am not rich, but I can pretty much afford to buy any Mac I want.

But it is a lot more fun hacking and doing things with hardware that were not intended. Installed OSX on an AppleTV is an example of how much fun you can have woith this sort of stuff.

A home-built PC that runs OSX is defintely in the cards for me - probably when Crysis or Fallout 3 come out.

So while I understand that installing a project osx86 ISO is not for eveyone, it does answer your question. There will never be an Apple PC like the one that you described, so why continue waiting?

Buy Tiger and roll your own Apple. You may violate the EULA but whether that makes the activity illegal is highly debatable. If it were that cut and dried you would have seen Apple shut down insanely Mac a long time ago.
 
#16 ·
lewdvig said:
Buy Tiger and roll your own Apple. You may violate the EULA but whether that makes the activity illegal is highly debatable. If it were that cut and dried you would have seen Apple shut down insanely Mac a long time ago.
I also think that calling it illegal is very debatable. I think that doing something with software and hardware you have bought is your own business, whether Apple likes it or not. But my suspicion is that they don't actually mind the fact that people out there may be doing this, they just don't want to officially sanction it — yet.
 
#17 ·
Phoboga said:
Can we hear from anyone who bought a G4 mini when they first came out and is thinking of upgrading now?
Well - I have a Mac Mini, two G4's, an eMac and an old PowerPC 6100 in the family.
Each one is well suited for its user, purpose and application.
The two people who use the G4's would have traded up to an Intel tower, but instead have upgraded their G4's because there is no mac tower in the $1200 to $1500 range.
What I think is missing in the Apple line-up is the equivalent of a 20-inch iMac without the screen and some expandability at the $1350 or $1400 price point. I would buy two of those in a heart beat.
 
#18 ·
Lars said:
I wouldn't hold my breath on this possibility.
Not holding breath Lars, only speculating based on the fact that Jobs likes the idea of a cube shaped computer, since he's had two tries at bringing one to market. I think it's pretty clear that nobody outside of an inner circle at Cupertino really knows where Jobs could go next.
 
#20 ·
My husband just bought me a MacPro for my birthday last month and I must say it is so nicely designed. I have never been able to upgrade a machine more easily - adding the hard drive is simply sliding it in & the PCI express is pretty simple too. With my G4 tower, I got a cut every time pulling the plugs off the hard drive then whacking my hand on the heatsink!

Yeah, it's probably a bit more than I need but I look at buying a MacPro as a long term thing. I would probably outgrow an iMac in 3 years because of lack of expandability but I kept my G4 tower for 5 years & I will probably do the same with this one.
 
#21 ·
In reply to "That is when Apple will probably begin to look at competing in the hardware segment."; Apple is in the hardware segment. They are a hardware vendor, not a software vendor. The reason OS X exists (and it predeccessors) is to run their hardware.

For this reason, we are never going to see a legal response to running OS X on a pc. It will destroy Apple. Nobody is going to spend (although worth every penny) $1500-$4000 on Apple hardware when they can spend $500-$3000 on a pc to run OS X. (OK, some of us will...).
 
#22 ·
MBD said:
My husband just bought me a MacPro for my birthday last month and I must say it is so nicely designed. I have never been able to upgrade a machine more easily - adding the hard drive is simply sliding it in & the PCI express is pretty simple too. With my G4 tower, I got a cut every time pulling the plugs off the hard drive then whacking my hand on the heatsink!

Yeah, it's probably a bit more than I need but I look at buying a MacPro as a long term thing. I would probably outgrow an iMac in 3 years because of lack of expandability but I kept my G4 tower for 5 years & I will probably do the same with this one.
The MacPro is really nice from an upgrade perspective.

Yeah, as long as Intel doesn't do anything crazy with the sockets, you should have a nice upgrade path for a long time.

When they phase out this socket type, you might be able to put two 8 core chips in there for a reasonable cost (although memory bandwith will be choked big time). Plus when pcie is old, the cards will be twice as powerful as the current cards (maybe even more powerful).
 
#23 · (Edited)
GratuitousApplesauce said:
I'll take one of those, please. :)
Or...

Buy the base MacPro, eBay the Xeons, replace with Core 2 Duo chip(s). Xeons sell for a pretty penny.

Are they pin compatible? I have not looked up the MacPro mods - but I know people have installed quad core CPUs to replace their dual, dualies.

[update] The Mac Pro uses the Xeon 5130 which uses LGA 771 - so my idea won't work. :(

[update2] Or, if you can find a MacPro motherboard, you could build your own - LEGIT - mac. How much could it be? $300? $400?
 
#25 ·
re: The super Mini

The Super Mini is tempting, but how do I put in a decent graphics card? It seems like the best idea so far though - I support Apple by buying one of their machines and then just tweak it a little.

Thanks,
Steve
 
#26 ·
MACSPECTRUM said:
very different markets and aimed at very different users

also, it seems you aren't happy with the current iMac since it has a laptop motherboard
something i don't understand

Ya I dont get this either..... iMac 2Ghz WITH INTEL chip??? Laptop speeds???? I dont think you've used a new one! Go n actually spend some time using one!
 
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