Toshiba 2.5 laptop HD... Potential Class Action Lawsuit - Page 5 -
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Old Mar 17th, 2006, 12:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by DoNotPokeTheScreen
Sam. Sorry dude. I think if we started a poll here with 3 options:

What do you think SamtheMacMan is trying to do?
a) Teach Apple a lesson for fellow mac'ers' sake
b) A person with strong ethics/morals
c) others

Most people here would pick option C and call you a money-grab.

1st, Apple doesn't make the hard drives, Toshiba does, so go sue Toshiba.

2nd, Apple is not the only hard ware corporation seeking the best deal on 3rd party components to sell. Fact is, ALL computer makers are doing that.

3rd, try reading, most people here are familiar with hard drive failures. 1 or 2 defective product out of a whole batch isn't UNACCEPTABLE.

My family owns a small business... we do tend to make mistakes every other day. The business has been there for over 30 years. If EVERY customer whom had bad experiences with us come together for a class action lawsuit against us. it isn't fair.

Toshiba makes a lot more hard drives in a day than we serve people in a month.

Give them a break. Just because you're not the one making the money...
Nice post.

As far as the polls go on ehmac or anywhere else... they are polls and don't mean much, unless it is an actual election ;-)

First, it is not about "money".
In class actions "money" is used to bring corrective behaviour to those who are found to be negligent. This is the type of "currency" that the courts use to bring about correction and change behaviour, and also recompense those who have suffered loss.

In my case, it is about seeing corrective behaviour on the part of BOTH Apple and Toshiba. In class action litigation, they would be considere co-defendants as they entered into contract together.

As such, IF, and I say, IF, I was to personally be involved in such a class action, it would be to bring about behaviour change on the part of both Apple and Toshiba, and to at least recover the cost of replacing an alternative drive to the Toshiba drive. That's it. Nothing more.

By the way, that means no punitive damages. Do you understand what that means? That means I am not out to grab a load of cash! Period. It was never about that in the first place.

I love the way a person's motives are questioned by people who have no clue about either what class actions are about, and who do not seem to have a clue just how much companies like Apple get away with.

There are moral and ethical codes of coduct, and as flawed a human being that I am, I try to live by one. Class action legislation is used by each province to instill a similar code of ethical conduct, and to correct such deviations through the litigation process. It is not only unwise and unfair to demean such legislation, but also unnecessary. These laws exist to protect you the consumer. Without it, you would never be able to afford a lawyer to take on a corporation. Be thankful for the laws we have.

1. I know Apple does not make the drives, but they agree with the manufacturer as to the specs and quality. The Toshiba drives are inferior and break down too often. Just do an online search and you will read some horrific stories.

The issues are not whether or not any drive will fail, but when. I agree with that.

BUT, I believe the degree and frequency and the extent of the crashed drives is way out of proportion and this is what needs to be proved IF a class action were to proceed.

2. There is nothing wrong with trying to get a best deal. But what kind of "best deal" is a best deal? For whom? Apple? The consumer? Or both? Just what is the best deal in the end? Meeting the bottom line, or the best customer service possible?!

3. I am not talking about "a few". I am talking about thousands across Canada!

Your family business is not a good example. You have business insurance to protect you from lawsuits. That is why you have it. It is called "business liability insurance" for a reason. To protect you the business owner from BOTH intentional damages you have caused, and those that are NON-INTENTIONAL. This is why BOTH Apple and Toshiba are liable. It is the cost of doing business.

Check these out: Apple Lawsuits:

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Old Mar 17th, 2006, 12:18 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by kloan
My 12" Powerbook had a Toshiba 60GB hdd, died suddenly and violently.

It was a week past the warranty. Maybe it was programmed to die!

I actually think it was probably all the downloading I was doing.. especially with Bitorrent.. too much work for it.. probably seized up the bearings or something.

I left it alone for a week or two, then put it in an external enclosure which let me get everything off it. I was one lucky SOB. I stuck it in a Libretto after that and it worked for a little while... started making a weird noise again though.

I have ZERO faith in Toshiba laptop drives. I've seen countless posts of them dying very early.

I remember reading somewhere that normally the Toshiba drives are warrantied for 3 years, but when Apple uses them they're only covered for a year. Figure that one out.
I know exactly what you mean! Go figure... Toshiba warranty 3 years... Apple one year! Yeah... right... good customer service... yeah... right!
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Old Mar 17th, 2006, 12:27 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ariell
Looks like you haven't gotten alot of sympathy so far and sorry, you won't be getting any from me either. A class action suit??? Come ON.

Class action legislation is designed to protect the everyday joe from damages suffered at the hands of a large corporation -- to redress a wrong that was suffered. What damages exactly did you suffer? How were you injured? At best you were inconvenienced. That's it.

Once a product, any product, is out of warranty you're out of luck. You may very well have expected the drive to last a lifetime for all we know. Maybe the problem isn't with the drive. Maybe your expectations were just unrealistic.

Sure it sucks that your drive died after just over 2 years. I can't argue with you there. But you know what, that's life. You've got nothing, nada, zilch so far that I can see to support your claim that Apple is manufacturing (and you seem to be implying purposefully) manufacturing inferior drives. You still haven't even answered the question: did you contact Apple to see if they could help you out? And as others have pointed out, this falls within an acceptable range in the rate of failure.

The fact that there are other class actions suits against Apple or whoever? Again, totally irrelevant. Doesn't matter if there's a gagillion other lawsuits out there. Doesn't mean that they are justified. And it certainly doesn't mean that they'll win.

Come on. You're grasping at straws here. Save your time and energy for a real battle.

Oh hey guytoronto. Brilliant post. That was hysterical. Thanks for the laugh.
Excuse me? But since when is Apple, NOT a "large corporation"? They are huge compared to ordinary people and businesses. Huge.

Actually I did answer the question. They only offered to put in another Toshiba drive, with free installation.. There is no way that peice of crap is getting into my 12 inch Titanium... no way whatsoever.

By the way... you cannot define what damages I have suffered or the others who suffered because of this. You cannot nor are you qualified to distinguish the quality or quantity of suffering endured. That is why these things are decided in front of judges and lawyers.

As I said, I asked Apple... and because I refused their Toshiba drive, I had to pay to have the Samsung installed, which I was more than happy to do. Other than that, Apple refused to help me. So, yeah, I called Apple, and visited the local reseller.

But, I am glad to have the drive that I have.

It is up to judges to determine the validity of a lawsuit. I am glad that you are not a judge that decides... perhaps you own shares in the company, eh? ;-)

Anyway, thanks for the comments.

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Old Mar 17th, 2006, 12:28 PM   #44
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Just like anything, you usually have to pay the price for that warranty. Apple offers Applecare, which extends the Warranty of the Parts and Service for an additional 2 years on top of the one year standard. Try and find another computer retailer with better Customer Service than that.

This is quite a common business practice. I don't think you could really fight that even if you wanted to. It's actually better than most.
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Old Mar 17th, 2006, 02:00 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by samthemacman
By the way... you cannot define what damages I have suffered or the others who suffered because of this. You cannot nor are you qualified to distinguish the quality or quantity of suffering endured. That is why these things are decided in front of judges and lawyers.
Well you know what sam, it seems that you can't define what damages you suffered either. You had a backup. You recovered the majority of your data. And whatever data you did lose was your own fault for not backing up more frequently. All I see is that you were incovenienced.

And let me get this straight. Apple offered you a replacement which you reneged on. Your choice of course. But then you think they should reimburse you for the money you spent on another drive??? That's crazy.

I mean go and sue whoever you want. I don't care. I have no interest or shares in Apple so I have no ulterior motive for saying what I have. I just think in life you need to pick your battles and in the grand scheme of things, despite whatever injustice or pain you think you suffered this really is so very minor. Save your energy for a real fight. Trust me on that. Get over it. Move on.
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