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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 11:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDoc
I must admit we are seeing an unholy amount of portable drives failing lately. I've have not tracked brand - just checked a couple
Two Toshiba 40s two Travelstars.

I'll check the main pile tho many go back with machines. Not much of a case I would think.
It DOES however point out how critical back up is.
Drives are getting hit hard with media use and X swapping and the heat of modern portables.

We've had few problems with Toshiba's in our pocketcases so I think it's a combination of heat and brutal loads from the OS.
Maybe then, this is another reason for the MacIntel chip change... faster, cooler, etc.. Less wear and tear... hmmm.
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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 11:22 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samthemacman
If this continues, Apple will be no different than any other PC company, and then they may as well scrap their motto "Think Different"!, because Apple will be no different than other PC companies!
Think different is just a marketing strategy.

The almighty Apple, after-all, still shares many components with PCs.
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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 11:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Hi!

I bought a cat 26 months ago. My cat died... literally came to a loud, Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrinding halt! Lost ALL life signs ( I did have a picture of him from two weeks before...).

I did some research.... seems that cats are the pet of choice by the Humane Society. Some people have gone through three cats in less than a year. This is not normal pet wear and tear.

IF YOU HAD YOUR CAT DIE IN YOUR LAP... I WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU!

I am looking at establishing a class action lawsuit here against The Humane Society/Cats for putting inferior pets into our laps. There is precedent for this, but each province that has class action legislation needs to have at least TWO people register with a class action legal firm, in order to see about a truly national class action taking place that will allow all Canadians who purchased cats in good faith to be reimbursed for their trouble.

Currently The humane Society is involved in 0 class actions, and none of them involves cats or dogs.

IF you have had problems with your pet it is likely a cat. Even if you had a warranty and lost your pet you can still be involved in a law suit and its settlement.

Class Action lawsuits do not cost you money. The law exists to protect people like consumers from this kind of disregard for what we paid good money to purchase.

Please contact me at <[email protected]>

Cheers,
Sam

BTW... I now have hamster that I bought from someone on www.ehmac.ca and it works great!

I asked the local pet store for a pet, they had wanted to sell me a furry one, and when I found it that they only had cats, I freaked out!
Cute, real cute ;-)

The only "cats" I like, they live in my house, and I have managed to network their "cages" together, and these include IBM Travelstar cage, and a couple of Hitachi cages, and a couple of Samsung cages, which hold the only cats I love, my 2 Jaguars, 2 Panthers, and 1 Tiger...

I have them contained in a well protected area, and they don't run loose, and they are under constant supervision, and they are well trained to do multi-tasking, and they respond well in all kinds of situations, and they generally behave quite well, but unfortunately, their "cage", a cheap Japanese cage, the great Toshiba, they can break down, and before you know it, everything is gone! All the cats, be they Jaguars, Panthers or Tigers, can completely disappear, and can nowhere be found!

It is nice to be able to afford to keep an extra "cage" around just in case, but make sure it is not a Toshiba "cage", OK? There are more reliable ones out there!

I just wish the one who gave me my Tiger, would have given me a better "cage"!!!
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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 11:40 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milhaus
Well, then he's really exaggerating to say he lost ALL of the data now, isn't he . . .
No, I am not exagerating. First, there is the time for the backup which we assume when we decide on regular backups. Then there is the time and effort and cash we spend on the drive... trying to recover data can cost up to $85 an hour in some shops, and then there is the purchase of a new drive, and the cost of installing it. THESE are the costs I am talking about.

It is the aggravation of unreliable hardware, like a hard drive that can crash as readily as a Toshiba, that makes it expensive.

I do a backup once a week, but if it is work related files or important docs I do it the same day. The backup is not the issue, but all the aggravation and cost of new drive replacements is, especially poor quality products.

I even aske about the new Macbook, and it comes with a Toshiba drive. I asked if I bought one, I did not want the Toshiba drive. The best they could do is say that they will warranty everything but the drive. I can live with that. I will take my three year warranty on a Samsung anyday over that piece of Toshiba crap!
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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 12:10 PM   #35
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I had a back up, but that is not the point... the point is the drive died. Two years old and it died. Toshiba makes an inferior product. Toshiba has suits of its own going on, and other companies that have Toshiba drives have lawsuits as well. Last year Fujitsu had a similar lawsuit for desktop drives. There are promises made by manufacturers, and when they don't deliver on the promise, and by the way, a consumer purchases on a promise of a product being what it is, be it toothpaste, groceries, a cell phone, a LCD HDTV, or in this case, a hard drive. You are buying in the promise that it is a reliable product. When people don't deliver on their promises, they need to be held to account.
I hear your frustration.

What I am curious about though, is what you consider acceptable in terms of failure rate. Your challenge will be to show that these drives fail more often than other comparable products. It coulb be that they do not, and you have simly been unlucky. This is not pleasant, but unless you have hard stats to support you this will fail.

You keep mentioning the promises made by companies. You will have to be specific in your case in how they have broken a specific promise. A general promise to deliver a good product is hard to pin down, and if the failure rate across the market is in line with other drives it may be hard to get anywhere with this.

Personally, for something like this, class action smells of digging gold out of a prominent brand.
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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 12:24 PM   #36
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A hard drive is the only moving part left in a computer other than the $0.35 fan that is constantly worked for hours and hours on end.
It's not a matter of if it will fail but when it will fail.
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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 01:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samthemacman
No, I am not exagerating. First, there is the time for the backup which we assume when we decide on regular backups. Then there is the time and effort and cash we spend on the drive... trying to recover data can cost up to $85 an hour in some shops, and then there is the purchase of a new drive, and the cost of installing it. THESE are the costs I am talking about.
Okay... so you were buying insurance from an insurance company... and the sue it for having you to pay for the premiums every month and the time and frustration you get from making a claim when you get into a car accident. That is so ridiculous. You hear me? RIDICULOUS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samthemacman
I will take my three year warranty on a Samsung anyday over that piece of Toshiba crap!
When the Samsung fails on you (yes, i'm sure it will in the future), we'll have a good laugh again on ehmac.ca as you curse Samsung and attempt to make a class-action lawsuit against it.
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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 08:20 PM   #38
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My 12" Powerbook had a Toshiba 60GB hdd, died suddenly and violently.

It was a week past the warranty. Maybe it was programmed to die!

I actually think it was probably all the downloading I was doing.. especially with Bitorrent.. too much work for it.. probably seized up the bearings or something.

I left it alone for a week or two, then put it in an external enclosure which let me get everything off it. I was one lucky SOB. I stuck it in a Libretto after that and it worked for a little while... started making a weird noise again though.

I have ZERO faith in Toshiba laptop drives. I've seen countless posts of them dying very early.

I remember reading somewhere that normally the Toshiba drives are warrantied for 3 years, but when Apple uses them they're only covered for a year. Figure that one out.
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Old Mar 16th, 2006, 10:16 PM   #39
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Looks like you haven't gotten alot of sympathy so far and sorry, you won't be getting any from me either. A class action suit??? Come ON.

Class action legislation is designed to protect the everyday joe from damages suffered at the hands of a large corporation -- to redress a wrong that was suffered. What damages exactly did you suffer? How were you injured? At best you were inconvenienced. That's it.

Once a product, any product, is out of warranty you're out of luck. You may very well have expected the drive to last a lifetime for all we know. Maybe the problem isn't with the drive. Maybe your expectations were just unrealistic.

Sure it sucks that your drive died after just over 2 years. I can't argue with you there. But you know what, that's life. You've got nothing, nada, zilch so far that I can see to support your claim that Apple is manufacturing (and you seem to be implying purposefully) manufacturing inferior drives. You still haven't even answered the question: did you contact Apple to see if they could help you out? And as others have pointed out, this falls within an acceptable range in the rate of failure.

The fact that there are other class actions suits against Apple or whoever? Again, totally irrelevant. Doesn't matter if there's a gagillion other lawsuits out there. Doesn't mean that they are justified. And it certainly doesn't mean that they'll win.

Come on. You're grasping at straws here. Save your time and energy for a real battle.

Oh hey guytoronto. Brilliant post. That was hysterical. Thanks for the laugh.
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Old Mar 17th, 2006, 11:33 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelao
I hear your frustration.

What I am curious about though, is what you consider acceptable in terms of failure rate. Your challenge will be to show that these drives fail more often than other comparable products. It coulb be that they do not, and you have simly been unlucky. This is not pleasant, but unless you have hard stats to support you this will fail.

You keep mentioning the promises made by companies. You will have to be specific in your case in how they have broken a specific promise. A general promise to deliver a good product is hard to pin down, and if the failure rate across the market is in line with other drives it may be hard to get anywhere with this.

Personally, for something like this, class action smells of digging gold out of a prominent brand.
Class Actions are used to protect people against the practices and broken promises of consumer goods that have been sold to consumers who have trusted the brand name and its promises in their product. If the product does not deliver, then the manufacturer should be held to account.

Class Actions are used to litigate against multimillion dollar companies who can afford in many cases to take on the legal challenges of each individual who has a grievance. Ordinary consumers cannot afford such litigation, and this is why lawyers do not make any money until a settlement is made.

This is not a grab for gold. There are no guarantees in class actions, and there is a lot of preliminary work that gets done, and legal hoops to jump through BEFORE a judge will even go to trial.

So, to pursue a class action settlement takes a lot of work. In the case of Jujitsu it was proven that their failure rates are way out of whack to the rest of the industry, and that was the case, plain and simple.

As you say, the case will depend on how many people have had failures, how many, and within how much time of the purchase, and to what extent the damage was, both in loss of data, loss of time, cost to replace the drive and such. The big one is, just how many are there out there?

Cheers,
Sam
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