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-   -   Question on MacOS (http://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=30308)

syn1980 Aug 22nd, 2005 05:04 PM

Question on MacOS
 
Hi Mac Gurus

I new to MacOS and have some basic question.I keep reading that prior that old mac machines come with both Mac OS X and Mac 9.0.x Operating Systems.

I understand that those machines always bootup first in some "classic" mode that is Mac OSx and then boot into the Mac 9.0.X for GUI capabilities.

Can you not just have a single operating system like you have in windows that directly boots into it.

Sorry,if the question is kinda lame.I'm from a PC background and trying to understand the whole Mac OS setup .

any links or resources that explains the above is much appreciated.

Thanks

:-)

thejst Aug 22nd, 2005 05:06 PM

it may help to know what kind of machine you have, and which versions of OS you are running/wanting to run

thejst Aug 22nd, 2005 05:07 PM

FWIW- Classic is not the same as running OS9- Classic is more of an emulator of OS9 that is managed by OSX than a 'real' OS. Anytime I have used it, it has been less than useful...like Virtual PC...

Howard2k Aug 22nd, 2005 05:10 PM

My understading:

Some apps will only run in Classic mode (like OS9 or previous). This is like having old Windows 3.0 apps kicking around. In order to run them, the OS needs to understand all that old guff. In the case of Win95 Microsoft introduced a bunch of code to take care of the 16 bit to 32 bit app transitions. Kind of similar.

You don't HAVE to use the classic environment though. I don't have any classic apps so never use it. If I installed it then it would start as required. A little like Win95 not bothering to start it's processes required for 16 bit app support until you actually run a 16 bit app.


Actually a better analogy was the way that Windows NT used to handle 16 bit apps or POSIX apps. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but it's a better fit. The win95 analogy is perhaps a little easier to understand though :)

I run OS X. I could install Classic mode if I wanted it, but I don't need it so it's not there.

syn1980 Aug 22nd, 2005 05:47 PM

So,letz say I intend to install Mac OS Tiger ,then apart from the Mac OS tiger in my machine,I'll still have Mac OS X to provide some sort of legacy application support.

Is it that correct ?

IronMac Aug 22nd, 2005 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syn1980
So,letz say I intend to install Mac OS Tiger ,then apart from the Mac OS tiger in my machine,I'll still have Mac OS X to provide some sort of legacy application support.

Is it that correct ?

Errmmm...Mac OS X is the operating system. Tiger is just the latest iteration of that operating system. For example, I have Panther which is the version of OS X before Tiger.

Both Tiger and Panther (and earlier versions of OS X) are able to provide some level of legacy application support vis-a-vis Classic.

Some machines, such as my G4 933, are able to dual-boot into OS X or OS 9. :)

Josh Aug 22nd, 2005 07:16 PM

Hmmm.. Either this guy has used a computer for the first time today, or he's playing with you guys. Of course I could be wrong, but I would think that anyone that could find this site and sign up would also be able to make it to Apple's website and figure out what Mac OS is.

Howard2k Aug 22nd, 2005 07:19 PM

Don't take it for granted. I've used computers professionally for >15 years but in February this year I could not tell you how to take a bunch of files and make a .zip file out of them in OS X. I kid you not. There are billions of people out there who know NOTHING about OS X.

I suspect that syn1980 knows much more than nothing about OS X, but he's still got a lot to learn, that's all.

Macaholic Aug 22nd, 2005 07:42 PM

Here's the clear points:

-- Mac OS X runs all by itself on top of a UNIX kernel.

-- You do NOT need Mac OS 9 installed to install and run Mac OS X.

-- There is no compatibility with older Mac OS 9 software within OS X itself. Therefore, you do not experience any system slowdowns due to emulation of OS 9 if you do not need it.

-- Almost every applications -- and certainly all popular applications -- have long ago been made OS X compatible. Therefore, you'll probably have little occasion for OS 9 compatibility.

-- If you do need Mac OS 9 compatibility, it can be installed on the same drive, even the same partition, as Mac OS X.

-- The installation of Mac OS 9 will in no way impede the performance of Mac OS X.

-- When you in fact launch a "Classic" Mac OS 9 application while booted in Mac OS X, ONLY THEN will Mac OS 9 be loaded into OS X's environment as an emulation. ONLY THEN will you experience some amount of sluggishness.

Got it?

Mac OS X doesn't need OS 9 to be functional; YOU may need OS 9 to be functional if you're using old applications.

I've not used an OS 9 application in about two years.

Josh Aug 22nd, 2005 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard2k
Don't take it for granted. I've used computers professionally for >15 years but in February this year I could not tell you how to take a bunch of files and make a .zip file out of them in OS X. I kid you not. There are billions of people out there who know NOTHING about OS X.

I suspect that syn1980 knows much more than nothing about OS X, but he's still got a lot to learn, that's all.

Yeah, I realized after I clicked the reply button that I may have been wrong. It just seems that lately on ehMac It's hard to tell who's being legit and who is being a little less than honest, although I guess that comes with the growth of a community. I apologize to you syn1980 as I know from personal experience that it can get quite confusing when encountering a completely new OS, and I hope I didn't make it any harder for you.

Josh

TroutMaskReplica Aug 22nd, 2005 08:38 PM

Quote:

I've not used an OS 9 application in about two years.
same here.

do not install or use OS 9. it is pointless for a new macintosh user to do so.

ajaxline Aug 23rd, 2005 05:42 AM

This is similar to the Software Compatibility Wizard function in Windows XP. You can choose to launch an older program in one of four compatibility modes:

* Win 95
* Win 98/ME
* WinNT 4.0 (SP5)
* Win2K

And, like many retro-emulation modes, I have had mixed results using SCW. Sometimes it chugs along, no problem. Sometimes, your old program just coughs up a hairball.

A.J.

Macaholic Aug 23rd, 2005 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajaxline
Sometimes, your old program just coughs up a hairball.

Heh. Nice cata analogy! :D
(OS X "Puma", "Jaguar", "Panther", "Tiger")

syn1980 Aug 23rd, 2005 10:20 AM

Hey Josh,

I'm a Developer and have worked mostly on Windows and UNIX Platform.My Company is proceeding to support MacOSX shortly and so I'm in the process of getting familiar with this platform.

Yeah as you said,I can find info elsewhere,however I've been visiting this forum quite sometime and have always found some real good info.I was looking for a quick and short explanation and based on that I can proceed further.For e.g Macaholic's explanation is a very good starting note.

Kudos to all you Guys!!!...You are all very responsive and quick.It was very informative

Macaholic Aug 23rd, 2005 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syn1980
Hey Josh,

I'm a Developer and have worked mostly on Windows and UNIX Platform.My Company is proceeding to support MacOSX shortly and so I'm in the process of getting familiar with this platform.

Hey! That's great! :)

You've probably been following the decision of Apple to go with Intel CPUs next year. They have some awesome developers tools that will create "Universal Binary" applications that will -- if I understand it correctly -- be coded FOR YOU to run on both RISC and upcoming CISC Macintosh platforms. "Cocoa", their native OS X environment, is said to be really easy to write in (NOTE: I know nothing of this type of stuff. just from what I've read/heard).

Another thing you may or may not be aware of is that Codewarrior is dropping support for the Mac platform. Of all the different developer codes supporting Mac OS X, any legacy PPC apps written in Codewarrior will have the most difficult migration to x86 (Cocoa apps are apparently a breeze). Perhaps rather than migrate themselves, Metroworks has decided that the migration is too much for themselves to bother with. makes me wonder if they've suffered since Apple released their own developer kit, "Xtcode". So, I have no idea what kit you use on the "PC" side, but Codewarrior won't be there on the "Mac" side.

And on the subject of emulation, OS X/x86 will have an emulator for OS X PPC code backwards compatibility, called "Rosetta". This technology is from a company called Transitive, IIRC. And as for Mac OS Classic (pre-OS X) support that you have been enquiring about in this thread, such Classic apps will no longer be supported in OS X (my guess is on BOTH platforms) when OS X/x86 comes out at the end of next year.

Quote:

For e.g Macaholic's explanation is a very good starting note.
I live to serve... much to my wife's chagrin :o

Hey! Good luck on your immersion into the Mac platform! I know I can speak for all the Mac dweebs here by saying "thanks!" to your company... whatever you guys do.

SoyMac Aug 23rd, 2005 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macaholic
... I know I can speak for all the Mac dweebs here by saying "thanks!" to your company... whatever you guys do.

And syn1980, you and your company will be saying "thanks" when you see how trouble-free the Apple OS is.
Welcome to the Apple club!
:)

Macaholic Aug 26th, 2005 12:55 AM

syn1980, here is an article about Mac OS development and Code Warrior going away for Macs:

http://www.rednova.com/news/display/...e=r_technology


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