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Old Apr 9th, 2010, 03:08 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by i-rui View Post
i don't program, and know little about the ins and outs of it, but my first reaction to this news was that apple did this because compilers would naturally create bloated and inefficient code, compared to code written natively from the get go.

Would a compiled code run slower, task the processor and battery more than code written natively?

Still, i am getting a bit worried of Apples perceived fight with Adobe. The last thing i need is for Adobe to leave the mac platform. Then i'd be forced to use windows for PS **shudders**
not really. There's been no evidence to support this at all, and compilers are very common, certainly in the iphone's case there are quite a few out there in current use besides flash, adobe is actually quite late to the party.

But the real trouble here, is that allowing adobe this, would allow developers to build really good apps, and support android (the real problem here...) without having to rebuild from scratch. Apple has the wind in it's sails (or should that be sales ) in the app world, and adobe's packager would take a small bite out of that.

It's quite a game apple is playing here. Adobe has released a flash player that I've seen run unbelievably on a mac at 6 to 70 fps, they've been stepping up to the plate, bigtime. So amongst devs, who know what's happening, the mewling by apple is starting to make apple look like a much worse version of M$.

Now just imagine, if M$ trued to pull what apple did...

Now personally, I know more than one language and can write in obj-C. It's just a pain in the ass to have to develop in a language that has little use beyond iphone/ipad dev and can't ported in the other direction for now really.



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Old Apr 9th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #22
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The Flash Blog Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

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Now let me put aside my role as an official representative of Adobe for a moment as I would look to make it clear what is going through my mind at the moment. Go screw yourself Apple.
wow.

I read a little while ago Adobe made a corporate filing to the SEC, I don't know really what this means, but the article suggested it had something o do with adobe potentially losing a lot of money over this.

This is gonna get ugly. Real ugly. I just hope that us regular folk, are whacked in the process.



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Old Apr 9th, 2010, 08:33 PM   #23
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Yes, the gloves are off. While everyone was watching Apple spar with Google, Apple opened a second front with Adobe. The SEC filing is always a worst case scenario document. No need to worry about that (Apple has to state that Android is a threat, etc). However, Adobe has clearly reacted with passion and, to me, that smacks of panic. If they were smart, they'd keep their powder dry. There are lots of options. Apple isn't playing with their Flash ball but they have other balls too.

Apple took away with one hand and gave with another - yesterdays audience was primarily developers not the consumers (although it was also a land grab for attention of the business community and stockholders). Application developers (not web developers) now have direct access to another revenue stream through iAps with Apple doing the lifting. I think that will easily attract/retain more developers than what they'll lose. Right now, developers likely have to cross-compile because each market isn't big enough (or they are too big). That will change so that each eco-system achieves critical mass. But the bottom line for developers is that they will follow the money. For all of the "freedom and democracy" purported to reside at Google, if there is no money in developing apps for Android, they won't go there.

I've no idea about how you'd compile Objective C code into anything else. I understand that the cross-compilers run in their own language and step-down to the device-dependent languages. That does make them inherently less effective as they are not designed from the top down to take advantage of the particular nuances of each language to the degree native coding does.

As for Flash ad blocking - I wasn't wishing for anything. I'm happy with the status quo but it does reduce my awareness of and affinity for Flash-based web sites. I just can't be bothered with them so I skip them. More people with that attitude undermines the value of Flash.
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Old Apr 10th, 2010, 12:24 PM   #24
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Well Apple is saying that their refusal to support flash compiled apps is because they are working some under the hood mojo to make multitasking work in iPhone os 4 and they need the objective C code to make sure every app plays along nicely with their under the hood stuff.

AppleInsider | Apple's prohibition of Flash-built apps in iPhone 4.0 related to multitasking
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Old Apr 10th, 2010, 12:33 PM   #25
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Well Apple is saying that their refusal to support flash compiled apps is because they are working some under the hood mojo to make multitasking work in iPhone os 4 and they need the objective C code to make sure every app plays along nicely with their under the hood stuff.

AppleInsider | Apple's prohibition of Flash-built apps in iPhone 4.0 related to multitasking
ha ha ha ha. I have some swamp land in florida you can buy....

I'm sure apple might want to do some damage control as far as the developers are concerned, but I'll bet the devs who understand this ain't gonna buy this crap.



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Old Apr 10th, 2010, 01:18 PM   #26
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From a developer on the other side of the fence:

I'm happy with and support Apple's no Flash stance. Why don't I like Flash?

1) Open up several tabs with web sites with Flash content. Look at your CPU usage. WTF?

2) Flash is mainly a delivery vehicle for advertising. I absolutely despise modern advertising. I no longer watch TV because I hate being bludgeoned over the head with constant, mindless, repetitive ads trying to sell me stuff I do not want or need. I barely listen to radio in the car for the same reason. Thank Apple for iPod and iTunes and podcasting in general.

3) Constantly having to keep Flash and Adobe Reader up-to-date because of security holes. Every time someone I know gets hit with malware on Windows, it is through one of those two Adobe products. And out-of-date Java runtimes is another culprit here.

Forcing Developers to use Objective-C, C and/or C++ to develop iPhone OS apps.

This too I welcome. With open arms. There is no way that a cross-platform development environment can take advantage of each platforms features. You end up with lowest-common denominator feature support. In other words, cross-platform development environment apps are of poor quality on every platform. The App Store already has thousands of poor quality apps - we do not need any more thank you very much.
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Old Apr 10th, 2010, 01:26 PM   #27
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From a developer on the other side of the fence:

I'm happy with and support Apple's no Flash stance. Why don't I like Flash?

1) Open up several tabs with web sites with Flash content. Look at your CPU usage. WTF?
** if you were a smart developer, you'd know this is BS. One could send cpu usage up with anything not properly coded. It's been shown html5 canvas etc., can do the very same thing.
2) Flash is mainly a delivery vehicle for advertising. I absolutely despise modern advertising. I no longer watch TV because I hate being bludgeoned over the head with constant, mindless, repetitive ads trying to sell me stuff I do not want or need. I barely listen to radio in the car for the same reason. Thank Apple for iPod and iTunes and podcasting in general.
**What? mainly a delivery vehicle for advertising? Well I guess myself and all the flash developers I know, is a complete anomaly! BTW, if you remove flash as the choice for advertising, you don't actually think advertising will go away right? This is pure FUD.
3) Constantly having to keep Flash and Adobe Reader up-to-date because of security holes. Every time someone I know gets hit with malware on Windows, it is through one of those two Adobe products. And out-of-date Java runtimes is another culprit here.
**well I guess you don't relish keeping your OS up to date either...
Forcing Developers to use Objective-C, C and/or C++ to develop iPhone OS apps.

This too I welcome. With open arms. There is no way that a cross-platform development environment can take advantage of each platforms features. You end up with lowest-common denominator feature support. In other words, cross-platform development environment apps are of poor quality on every platform. The App Store already has thousands of poor quality apps - we do not need any more thank you very much.
There's no way to cross platform develop? There's a massive development community out there that will disagree with that statement.



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Old Apr 10th, 2010, 02:54 PM   #28
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ha ha ha ha. I have some swamp land in florida you can buy....

I'm sure apple might want to do some damage control as far as the developers are concerned, but I'll bet the devs who understand this ain't gonna buy this crap.
If you don't believe that one I think you've just put your foot in your mouth. That is a 100% valid reason to prohibit runtimes. Me thinks you need to do a little more reading on how they've implemented multitasking in iPhone OS 4.0 and get fully informed on this topic before you continue to fling barbs. It's not just adobe that's being burnt here, it's ALL runtime environments. It sucks yes, but it's not just about apple being anti-adobe, it's about being able to do what needs to happen with their platform. Get over it.
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Old Apr 10th, 2010, 03:26 PM   #29
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If you don't believe that one I think you've just put your foot in your mouth. That is a 100% valid reason to prohibit runtimes. Me thinks you need to do a little more reading on how they've implemented multitasking in iPhone OS 4.0 and get fully informed on this topic before you continue to fling barbs. It's not just adobe that's being burnt here, it's ALL runtime environments. It sucks yes, but it's not just about apple being anti-adobe, it's about being able to do what needs to happen with their platform. Get over it.
Hmmm. If you read the thread, many of us actual hard core developers who code in actionscript 3 AND objective C are questioning this. The debate is raging, and it isn't clear yet if this is a 100% valid reason. Perhaps I need more kool-aid???

And if you read my other thread, I have made it extremely clear, that everyone knows this isn't just anti-adobe.



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Old Apr 10th, 2010, 03:45 PM   #30
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so what about apps that have already been compiled with 3rd party compilers that are currently in the appstore (i'm sure there's a ton)

would they not be able to properly run under os 4?
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