Interac Email Money Transfer scam - funds returned - ehMac.ca
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Old Feb 5th, 2014, 05:42 PM   #1
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Interac Email Money Transfer scam - funds returned

Just wanted to seek any experts' opinion and see what can be done.

I recently received a few Interac E-Transfers from some friends I don't know so well, and before accepting the money, I called TD Bank to ask how it worked. TD said that it is fully secure, the money is first verified that it is in the seller's account and then once you accept the funds, it is fully your money, in your account, ready for use, and, most importantly, IRREVERSIBLE. I asked, "Are you sure it is irreversible? There is no way for the sender to get the money back?" and the TD operator said, "Yes, it is irreversible. The only way for the sender to get the money back is for YOU to manually send it back to them, otherwise it is YOUR money."

I withdrew and spent the money.

Now I received a call from TD saying that those were "fraudulent funds" and they will be reversed, and I will now owe them the amount. I said, "No way! I had expressly called you before accepting and a TD representative said that with an Interac E-Transfers, once I accept it, it becomes MY money, irreversible, and I expect TD to keep their word. There is no way I am bearing responsibility as a result of that statement being untrue."

So now they are saying that the decision is final and I either pay them back or they will go through a collections agency.

I can't get a hold of my "friends" anymore, and I'm furious that TD told me that it was irreversible and now it turns out, it is very much reversible. I don't want to be wrongfully chased by a collections agency. What can I do?
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Old Feb 5th, 2014, 06:23 PM   #2
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i had no idea that was possible. i've sold a few things on kijiji where the buyer paid with EMT. i'll have second thoughts now...
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Old Feb 5th, 2014, 06:34 PM   #3
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Well, it is irreversible in that the person who sent you the money can't reverse it once you've accepted the funds. The person sending CAN reverse before you accept. I've done that.

A couple of things, are you sure it was TD that called? If my bank wants to talk to me, they write a letter unless it's a call to tell me when to come to their place for an appointment. They never email and they have never called unless I call them first. And if they are demanding money, they would write a letter, not phone.

If the bank asked for the money, did they tell you how you are supposed to deliver it?

Did you tell these sketchy friends which bank you deal with? If you did, you shouldn't have. For an e-transfer to work, neither party needs to know the other person's bank. I send money to family frequently and I have no idea where they bank.
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Old Feb 5th, 2014, 07:15 PM   #4
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The sketchy friends know I'm with TD.

It was definitely TD who called. (First, TD blocked my online banking. Then my calls to TD went directly to Loss Prevention. The TD operator told me to go to a branch, where I met the branch manager. Then that same branch manager called me back.)

TD says that the sender said "No I didn't authorize that, it was fraudulent" and so they will reverse the e-transfers. That is, the sender will get back his money and I (the receiver) will have that money taken from my account.

I was told e-transfers were irreversible. If I am chased by a collection agency I will be livid with fury. What are my best arguments?
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Old Feb 5th, 2014, 07:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winwintoo View Post
it is irreversible in that the person who sent you the money can't reverse it once you've accepted the funds
The OPPOSITE of this is happening to me right now. I accepted the funds, now the person who sent me the money is claiming "No I didn't!" and it is being reversed.

And I've already spent it, thinking what you said -- it was a gift that was NOT REVERSIBLE!!
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Old Feb 5th, 2014, 10:23 PM   #6
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interac has this on their website :

Interac e-Transfer - Email Money Transfer, Send Money Online

Quote:
Always be careful when sending money

An Interac e-Transfer transaction cannot be reversed once the recipient of the funds has deposited the transfer. You must obtain a refund directly from the recipient. You can ask the recipient to send you an Interac e-Transfer for the refund amount.


Like using cash, you should send money transfers only to parties you know and trust. For most uses of the Interac e-Transfer service (sending money to family and friends, repaying IOUs, sending monetary gifts, etc.), you know the recipient well. For uses where you may not know the receiver well (e.g., online auction purchases), take the precautions you would take when making cash purchases. For auctions and online purchases, be sure to read and follow steps as recommended by operators of these websites to protect your money.
so unless you are part of the fraud (and they can prove it) i don't think they can legally demand any money back.

Basically i would talk to the manager, send them that link and quote, and explain that either the sender or the bank is responsible for the fraud. You as the recipient are not.
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Old Feb 5th, 2014, 10:25 PM   #7
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p.s. not sure why you're asking this question on a mac site. not that there's anything wrong with that, but I can think of other forums that this question would be better suited (perhaps redflagdeals.com's forums)
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Old Feb 5th, 2014, 10:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torontogirl87 View Post
The OPPOSITE of this is happening to me right now. I accepted the funds, now the person who sent me the money is claiming "No I didn't!" and it is being reversed.

And I've already spent it, thinking what you said -- it was a gift that was NOT REVERSIBLE!!
So reading between the lines here, are they accusing YOU of fraud? Did you con some people into sending you money? Maybe you "sold" something on kijiji.com and then sent them a brick instead of what you advertised?

If they are the ones who committed fraud, how did you end up with the money?

I don't think you're telling us the whole story.
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Old Feb 6th, 2014, 12:07 AM   #9
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@i-rui : Thanks for the Interac quote. You make a good point. I will definitely say that.

@winwintoo: Well that's always nice to hear, that you think *I'M* the crook here; I have done no such thing. I have sold nothing. I have no commercial interests and nothing to sell. Some so-called friends sent money so that I could use it to help them buy a limited edition Valentino bag, I accepted their payment, bought it and gave it to one of them, now I'm hearing this.

I was also thinking, how in the world is it possible to claim fraud on email transfers? The bank should say to the sender, "no, I'm sorry. YOU were logged in on for online banking, you made the transfer, the security question YOU set up was answered correctly. You can't even claim fraud on an outside computer bc we always ask a security question for computers we don't recognize as your home computer, before letting you log onto online banking." Logically this fraud claim should be rejected.

I was told I could call the TD customer care ombudsman. I will say the interac quote. Anything else?
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Old Feb 6th, 2014, 12:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torontogirl87 View Post
@i-rui : Thanks for the Interac quote. You make a good point. I will definitely say that.

@winwintoo: Well that's always nice to hear, that you think *I'M* the crook here; I have done no such thing. I have sold nothing. I have no commercial interests and nothing to sell. Some so-called friends sent money so that I could use it to help them buy a limited edition Valentino bag, I accepted their payment, bought it and gave it to one of them, now I'm hearing this.

I was also thinking, how in the world is it possible to claim fraud on email transfers? The bank should say to the sender, "no, I'm sorry. YOU were logged in on for online banking, you made the transfer, the security question YOU set up was answered correctly. You can't even claim fraud on an outside computer bc we always ask a security question for computers we don't recognize as your home computer, before letting you log onto online banking." Logically this fraud claim should be rejected.

I was told I could call the TD customer care ombudsman. I will say the interac quote. Anything else?
If I was the bank, I might see some fraud in there. If the other people had the money, why didn't they buy the bag themselves?

Lesson learned, don't have financial dealings with people you don't know well.
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