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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 05:41 PM   #51
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The oinly part about Carter's energy program I liked was the new emphasis on coal--however, Obama reversed that decision. That one reversal alone put Carter ahead of Obama in my books.
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #52
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There's two things a politician needs to do: 1) Govern and 2) Get elected. You can't do #1 without #2. And it's far worse if you can do #2 without being able to do #1.

The most effective politicians are able to do both.
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonal View Post
There's two things a politician needs to do: 1) Govern and 2) Get elected. You can't do #1 without #2. And it's far worse if you can do #2 without being able to do #1.

The most effective politicians are able to do both.
yes that's true.

Though it's safe to say there are many different opinions on what passes as governing.
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #54
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Soooo... no dice on setting policies with long term goals beyond your possible term?

That's pretty much dooming everyone to certain failure in my view.
Alas I believe it to be true... as I have not seen any significant evidence to the contrary.

Last edited by screature; Mar 19th, 2012 at 06:12 PM.
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #55
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yes that's true.

Though it's safe to say there are many different opinions on what passes as governing.
Also very true.

As a personal preference, I like politicians from whom I can sense having a larger vision for what kind of a place they want their country to be, not ones who seek solely to tear down bits and pieces as being 'wrong' but with no overall view of what they believe is 'right'.

As such--I tend to make my choices based on the overall vision. The details for how this is implement will almost always change. But hopefully the overall view is preserved.
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #56
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There's two things a politician needs to do: 1) Govern and 2) Get elected. You can't do #1 without #2. And it's far worse if you can do #2 without being able to do #1.

The most effective politicians are able to do both.
Well not entirely, if you you can be an "effective" (i.e. influence government policy) opposition... it is a noble dream, but not one that I have seen much evidence for in reality.
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 06:04 PM   #57
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certainly not in the current parliament, the government is a bit of a train wreck right now, and the opposition isn't as effective as I'd like. Though to be fair, they are both leaderless really atm.
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #58
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Also very true.

As a personal preference, I like politicians from whom I can sense having a larger vision for what kind of a place they want their country to be, not ones who seek solely to tear down bits and pieces as being 'wrong' but with no overall view of what they believe is 'right'.

As such--I tend to make my choices based on the overall vision. The details for how this is implement will almost always change. But hopefully the overall view is preserved.
Sorry to say Sonal I think your view of politicians and how they fundamentally operate within a party system is for lack of a better word rather naive... there are a few that would adhere to your preference but they are by far and large in the minority in my experience.

All one has to do for evidence of this is to look at the current leadership race in the NDP.

That being said why should "ideals"/view/vision not vary as circumstances vary and times change? Why should an "overall view" that may have been appropriate (even given a certain philosophical bent) that was appropriate 30, 40 or 50 years ago be appropriate and be fundamentally adhered to today?
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #59
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certainly not in the current parliament, the government is a bit of a train wreck right now, and the opposition isn't as effective as I'd like. Though to be fair, they are both leaderless really atm.
The point I was making exactly, as it has been the case as long as I can remember.... just saying that as an opposition member of a given legislature one can (theoretically) be effective but it is very hard indeed.
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Old Mar 19th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #60
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Sorry to say Sonal I think your view of politicians and how they fundamentally operate within a party system is for lack of a better word rather naive... there are a few that would adhere to your preference but they are by far and large in the minority in my experience.

All one has to do for evidence of this is to look at the current leadership race in the NDP.

That being said why should "ideals"/view/vision not vary as circumstances vary and times change? Why should an "overall view" that may have been appropriate (even given a certain philosophical bent) that was appropriate 30, 40 or 50 years ago be appropriate and be fundamentally adhered to today?
The fact that politicians of my preference are in the minority is not at all surprising to me.

I'm not sure I understand the latter half of what you are saying, but perhaps we have a slight miscommunication between us. Certainly, my views will likely change over a 30, 40 or 50 year horizon. But I would hope that a particular politician's overall view or vision of the country/province/state/city/what-have-you would not change dramatically during their term--even though some of the promises they made during their campaign may change or not come to fruition.
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