Native Canadians & the Federal Gov't (Attawapiskat, etc.) - Page 11 - ehMac.ca
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 04:39 AM   #101
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Unless there is some employment for the citizens of towns like this, there will never be an end to this sort of news story. How long can you prop up a community that has no economic reason for existence? Even if you tripled the budget and built better homes for everyone, the community woulds till be jobless, dependent and purposeless. This writer is dead on:

For Kashechewan, read Attawapiskat - The Globe and Mail

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We are engaged in national intellectual escapism if we think these communities will escape from their debilitating cycles of problems without something more than a subsistence economy. Without one, dependence will prevail. With dependence comes lack of self-esteem, social pathologies and family troubles
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #102
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if the community received even what a non native community does per person, perhaps, it's a start.

Are you going to suggest this for all towns, because boy there'll quite a few towns being shut down in this country.

But don't let facts get in the way now.
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 10:25 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by groovetube View Post
if the community received even what a non native community does per person, perhaps, it's a start.

Are you going to suggest this for all towns, because boy there'll quite a few towns being shut down in this country.

But don't let facts get in the way now.
There already have been. Northern Ontario is littered with ghost towns that have lost their reason for being and hence ceased to exist. See List of ghost towns in Ontario - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . That list is incomplete. Near where I grew up there was also Kelso, Fraserdale, Twin Falls and Fredrickhouse. On the block right now, probably going through a slow death is Smooth Rock Falls.

I don't claim to know the answers to Attawaiskat, but I do have some observations:

1. At the grass roots level, if you do not own it or if you share ownership of it, there is no incentive to maintain it. It is well documented in the tragedy of the commons - common grazing lands being abused but private lands having good stewardship. It is a scenario being played out all over cottage country as "Families" own a cottage and no one wants to put the money in to maintain it so the others can use it. It shows in reservations with band owned homes.

2. At the funds distribution level, currently the process seems to be a trickle down economics. The band gets the money and it is supposed to trickle down from the executive to the members. It did not work for Reagan and it is not working here.

3. At the personal level the old saying is give a man a fish and he eats for a day but teach him to fish and he feeds himself forever. It is not happening. There is just enough money trickling through to keep people waiting for the fish.

4. At the infrastructure level, the provincial government has milked everything north of the Severn River since Ontario was a province. Moosonee is one of, if not the oldest settlement in Ontario, and does not have a road. This area has provided great wealth to this province in terms of minerals, timber, paper and power, but the infrastructure is at best minimal even in the non native areas. This area actually kept the province financially solvent during the depression. The Cree of Quebec appear to be doing much better. They have roads and therefore the ability to interface with the rest of the world. Last I heard, Air Creebec is a success story. In Ontario, north of HIghway 11 and North of Highway 17 west of Thunder Bay, there is not much.

5. At the Band Executive level, there is an ongoing conflict of interest of power versus service to band members. Anything that would bypass the band executive and go directly to band members would be considered a denigration of native sovereignty, especially if coming from the federal government. You are seeing howling about that now. Send in the UN, Send in the Army, Send more money...But do not dare take any direct action outside of the Indian Act that states what our power base is.

And I am sure that I am not even seeing half of it. It appears to me to be a system in failure at many levels at once.
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 12:45 PM   #104
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Attawapiskat must pay Ottawa appointee $1,300 a day | CTV News

speaking of 'FAIL', 1300 bucks a day for the Ottawa appointee.
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #105
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Attawapiskat must pay Ottawa appointee $1,300 a day | CTV News

speaking of 'FAIL', 1300 bucks a day for the Ottawa appointee.
Hey. Now you know the price of failure. If you cannot/will not do your job (and I humbly suggest that if you cannot even get it together to put in a budget, that is what you are involved with), you either hire someone to do it for you or your supervisors will step in. The federal government does run the Indian Act. They have stepped in.

This band could have gone to the most successful reserve in Canada or the U. S. (and I am sure it is common knowledge in the native community what the proper choice of reserves would be in this regard) and hired native expert to get the hands on learning and experience, all within the native context. I am also sure it would have cost about $1300 per day.

You are talking executive management fees plus expenses here on a multi million dollar enterprise. No Dollarama cashiers need apply.
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 02:09 PM   #106
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I'm sorry, but paying one person 1300/day is ridiculous. At close to 340,000 a year? That's more than what the prime minister's salary is...

And I would like to know how, this reserve could possibly afford such a thing when the budget is half that per capita of non natives.

I don't know what the problems are internally. How could I know. But on the outside, anyone can clearly see the lies and insinuations of the government(s) in this. I suggest you spend some time reading some of links to information on this.
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 03:18 PM   #107
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I'm sorry, but paying one person 1300/day is ridiculous. At close to 340,000 a year? That's more than what the prime minister's salary is...
You are not paying one person. You are paying a company. Apparently that's what they bill him out at.

It's a lot of money. Wish I could bill like that.

I am making the assumption that this figure is in his going rate range for his reputation/status/company status/level of responsibility and not a special rate "just because we can".

Also, this band is not a corner store. It is a multi million dollar operation AND a hostile situation AND in a remote location. The combination insures that the top rate in the range will be demanded and most likely be received.

.... And that is the cost of abject failure.

We will see who ends up with the bill in the end.
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 03:35 PM   #108
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You are not paying one person. You are paying a company. Apparently that's what they bill him out at.

It's a lot of money. Wish I could bill like that.

I am making the assumption that this figure is in his going rate range for his reputation/status/company status/level of responsibility and not a special rate "just because we can".

Also, this band is not a corner store. It is a multi million dollar operation AND a hostile situation AND in a remote location. The combination insures that the top rate in the range will be demanded and most likely be received.

.... And that is the cost of abject failure.

We will see who ends up with the bill in the end.
It says in the G&M article on the subject it is the going rate for third party management...

Tory appointee charges $1,300 a day to run Attawapiskat finances


Quote:
...The price tag is well within the going rate, say those familiar with third-party management of native reserves. Assembly of First Nations officials say per-diem rates for third-party managers are between $1,000 and $3,000, plus expenses.

Stan Beardy – Grand Chief of Nishnawbe Aski Nation, which includes Attawapiskat – says that communities in the James Bay region would normally have to pay $200,000 and $300,000 a year for such a government appointee...
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #109
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well thank goodness that's the "going rate".
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Old Dec 8th, 2011, 10:04 PM   #110
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It says in the G&M article on the subject it is the going rate for third party management...

Tory appointee charges $1,300 a day to run Attawapiskat finances
Who's hiring at the going rate? I can only think of one party.

A small community supporting a consultant paying for the price of a Canadian Prime Minister's yearly salary.

Who thinks this is a sensible resolution to an emergency situation to house people and to provide remedial action for a warm and sanitary, healthy and safe living conditions?

Who thinks spending nearly $1300.00 per day as overhead to a private consultant is a wise use of tax dollars while people live in shacks, tents and squalor?
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