It's interesting the the 31,000 complaints were received only after Opposition parties begged people to search their recollections. It reminds me of those sociological experiments in which a group of children are left in a classroom. A man enters and does nothing but sit down for a minute, then leaves. When the children are asked whether they saw a man do any number of things, a large percentage insist they saw just that--and supply supporting detail. If you asked all Canadians if they saw any evidence of UFOs or strange phenomena on the night of the election, you would probably see a large number of people responding just because the question was asked. It will take a lot of work to separate the wheat from the chaff here.
Or they were 31,000 legitimate complaints. Either way, it should be investigated fully. As a Canadian, I find even the idea that this happened to be reprehensible. Putting partisan blinkers on is equally as wrong. Do we really want to end up like the Americans?
In an interview, Duff Conacher, on the board of Democracy Watch, said American companies shouldn’t be involved in Canadian elections. “It’s legal to engage the services of anyone you want during an election campaign but it’s very disturbing to see the Conservative Party using companies with these kinds of partisan (Republican) ties.”
Or they were 31,000 legitimate complaints. Either way, it should be investigated fully. As a Canadian, I find even the idea that this happened to be reprehensible. Putting partisan blinkers on is equally as wrong. Do we really want to end up like the Americans?
No. There is zero chance that there are 31,000 legitimate complaints in an open call. Simply misunderstanding the question, partisan responses, false memory and high suggestibility will eliminate a large number of these. Of course it must be investigated, but only by discounting accepted notions of group psychology could we expect 31,000 out of 31,000 legitimate complaints.
No. There is zero chance that there are 31,000 legitimate complaints in an open call. Simply misunderstanding the question, partisan responses, false memory and high suggestibility will eliminate a large number of these. Of course it must be investigated, but only by discounting accepted notions of group psychology could we expect 31,000 out of 31,000 legitimate complaints.
Hmm, ok then, 30,999.
You are simply arguing for arguments sake at this point. Who really cares. One complaint is as important as 10 and should be investigated.
It seems as though you are simply trying to diminishing the serious nature of these complaints/ allegations. Perhaps they have already taken these phenomena into account and have reduced the number from 35,000.
Regardless, someone has been very bad and needs to be dealt with. Lets hope this happens. Hate to live in a country where this is taken as de rigueur.
It's interesting the the 31,000 complaints were received only after Opposition parties begged people to search their recollections. It reminds me of those sociological experiments in which a group of children are left in a classroom. A man enters and does nothing but sit down for a minute, then leaves. When the children are asked whether they saw a man do any number of things, a large percentage insist they saw just that--and supply supporting detail. If you asked all Canadians if they saw any evidence of UFOs or strange phenomena on the night of the election, you would probably see a large number of people responding just because the question was asked. It will take a lot of work to separate the wheat from the chaff here.
What's more interesting, I think, is despite pleas for the "innocent before proven guilty", that you want to bury tis as, merely a handful of nutbars who, probably see UFOs too.
I agree, to a point that we can't slam them as criminals, not yet, (even though this was common during the liberal rule, just ask Mr. Goodale how that was...). But let's face the truth here. It isn't as if the Harper Cons are a squeaky clean running operation here. They've already been found guilty of breaking election law, and their propensity for fighting dirty is clearly well known. Though their supporters will amost certainly quickly leap to their defence, likely adding a "well the liberals... blah blah' in there too.
It isn't, that it's just 31,000 (so far) that have reported these robo calls, it's the fact it happened. Even more disturbing, is the nature, of this crime, (whomever is responsible...). That seems to escape most who are so quick to defend their party, despite already having been found guilty in election law, and having displayed the same "what... US???" responses and complete cat in a leash cooperation before. It also isn't about whether or not the last election was valid, I want this crime investigated, and the trail followed all the way to the source. Because for this to occur, money, voter lists, and organization. Doesn't exactly sound like a few overzealous operatives to me.
31,000 Canadians seeing a UFO is one thing. 31,000 Canadians (that we know of at this point) reporting a crime, is a totally different animal. And you're comparison to Canadians who see UFOs (if it's indeed that high...) is a very transparent picture of your true wish, that this would just go away. Nothing to see here.
I don't any, of these parties being involved in such scheme. Regardless if it's a party I vote for and want to win.
But now, once again... the conversation has been hijacked to be about the actual number, not the serious crime that has been committed.
I heard the lastest talking point being floated is it's election canada's fault....
Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 16,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmy
Hmm, ok then, 30,999.
You are simply arguing for arguments sake at this point. Who really cares. One complaint is as important as 10 and should be investigated.
It seems as though you are simply trying to diminishing the serious nature of these complaints/ allegations. Perhaps they have already taken these phenomena into account and have reduced the number from 35,000.
Regardless, someone has been very bad and needs to be dealt with. Lets hope this happens. Hate to live in a country where this is taken as de rigueur.
Actually no it is not... such a small number would clearly be an anomaly and would suggest no attempt at organized electoral fraud... just sayin'.
I think at this point due to the story being leaked and the significant possibility of "false positives" due to the wide spread, truly wide spread, dissemination of fraud claims of the Opposition, the actual truth as to verifiable numbers of calls will ever be known...
I believe there is a reason this whole mess of a stolen election resonates with so many Canadians.
It is Our Glorious Leader and his DeceptiCons who have tilled and fertilized the garden plowed the ground and furrowed the rows for the stolen election story, to grow and thrive.
The DeceptiCons pleaded guilty to infractions of the Elections Act, received a $50,000 fine and claimed they won.
The Decepticons were caught red handed targeting citizens in Mont Royal in Irwin Cotler's riding. Decepticons made misleading phone calls to citizen and playing dirty tricks.
The Decpeticons were brash enough to describe the dirty tricks as "an expression of free speech."
The DeceptiCons planted the seed, nurtured the garden and may reap a spoiled harvest...
Here's the reason the DeceptiCons are having with this issue and also that and with 60% of the voters didn't like the DeceptiCon's messages originally. (Cons forget that little detail in all of their rhetoric.)
Those may be the reasons for the story having legs.
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Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 16,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovetube
What's more interesting, I think, is despite pleas for the "innocent before proven guilty", that you want to bury tis as, merely a handful of nutbars who, probably see UFOs too.
I agree, to a point that we can't slam them as criminals, not yet, (even though this was common during the liberal rule, just ask Mr. Goodale how that was...). But let's face the truth here. It isn't as if the Harper Cons are a squeaky clean running operation here. They've already been found guilty of breaking election law, and their propensity for fighting dirty is clearly well known. Though their supporters will amost certainly quickly leap to their defence, likely adding a "well the liberals... blah blah' in there too.
It isn't, that it's just 31,000 (so far) that have reported these robo calls, it's the fact it happened. Even more disturbing, is the nature, of this crime, (whomever is responsible...). That seems to escape most who are so quick to defend their party, despite already having been found guilty in election law, and having displayed the same "what... US???" responses and complete cat in a leash cooperation before. It also isn't about whether or not the last election was valid, I want this crime investigated, and the trail followed all the way to the source. Because for this to occur, money, voter lists, and organization. Doesn't exactly sound like a few overzealous operatives to me.
31,000 Canadians seeing a UFO is one thing. 31,000 Canadians (that we know of at this point) reporting a crime, is a totally different animal. And you're comparison to Canadians who see UFOs (if it's indeed that high...) is a very transparent picture of your true wish, that this would just go away. Nothing to see here.
I don't any, of these parties being involved in such scheme. Regardless if it's a party I vote for and want to win.
But now, once again... the conversation has been hijacked to be about the actual number, not the serious crime that has been committed.
I heard the lastest talking point being floated is it's election canada's fault....
The fact is the CPC never denied their actions in the in and out scandal. They admitted them completely, they simply stated that they disagreed with Election Canada as to their interpretation of the Act and asserted that the other parties did exactly the same thing.
In the end Elections Canada's interpretation of the Act was upheld as being correct, but the CPC never denied that they did what they did, they simply asserted it was not illegal.
This is not the case here where they are denying that it was the CPC that had any involvement at a high level as a directive and an attempt to mislead voters.
This is a significant point of difference that seems lost on some.
I don't think anyone is trying to justify the activities thus far identified, what they are doing is extending the benefit of the doubt until the truth is known.
Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 16,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmy
Figure of speech screature, figure of speech...
Fair enough... and why I said "just sayin' to try and indicate I knew where you were coming from as a metaphor but in fact would not be as important/significant.
The fact is the CPC never denied their actions in the in and out scandal. They admitted them completely, they simply stated that they disagreed with Election Canada as to their interpretation of the Act and asserted that the other parties did exactly the same thing.
In the end Elections Canada's interpretation of the Act was upheld as being correct, but the CPC never denied that they did what they did, they simply asserted it was not illegal.
This is not the case here where they are denying that it was the CPC that had any involvement at a high level as a directive and an attempt to mislead voters.
This is a significant point of difference that seems lost on some.
I don't think anyone is trying to justify the activities thus far identified, what they are doing is extending the benefit of the doubt until the truth is known.
oh here we go with the semantics again. Please state where I said otherwise.
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