Canadian Mac Forums at ehMac banner

Political and Religious threads on ehMac. Do we need them?

  • No, I'd rather not have those hot button topics on ehMac.

    Votes: 19 29.7%
  • Yes, I like have those discussions - OR - I don't mind / don't care about them.

    Votes: 45 70.3%

Quick poll - Political and Religious threads on ehMac. Do we need them?

4K views 87 replies 26 participants last post by  ehMax 
#1 ·
Personally, I've grown to loathe political and religious threads on ehMac. (Or any forum for that matter)

I'm just curious, for those who visit the Everything Else forum, what do you think?
 
#44 ·
Those who'd rather not have those hot button topics on ehMac, is currently at 38%. Isn't that enough for a minority policy? :) ;)

Just want to be clear, after feedback I have received, I currently have no intention of getting rid of politic and religion on ehMac or moving it to it's own section, just some new ground rules and ideas... still percolating and flushing it out in my head. ;)
 
#46 ·
Keep in mind, vBulletin's search engine doesn't include most 3 letter words.
There's many derivatives.. nutjob, nut job, whackjob whack job, wingnut, wing nut, but not just variations of those words.

I don't want to come across as this being some huge rampant problem either, it is a topic I just wanted to discuss and also suggest a solution which we will then further discuss. :)
 
#47 ·
I don't mind the presence of religious or political polls ... I don't read them much. In the spirit of free speech -- why not. If they are monitored, though, it could be a lot of work. I haven't seen much in the way of constructive discussion on these topics, mostly mudslinging, or worse, and character assassination (of the author).

Then again, I often find a similar quality of comments about any other topic. For example, statements like " X is garbage, and anyone using it is subpar" is not really part of a discussion, just a declaration. Of course, it says more about the writer than anything else.
 
#48 ·
Drawn out of lurk-mode

As some of you have noticed, I've taken a few months holiday from ehMac, but this topic has brought me back.

Abstract: While I sympathize with the Mayor's desire to keep his site friendly and helpful (like Canada), attempting to do so by stifling dissent and debate about contentious issues is doomed to failure; either by success in creating a puerile play school, or by failure in the creation of an informational dictatorship. What is a worthwhile is to provide members who don't enjoy the, admittedly sometimes messy chaos of metaphysical melée an easy means of avoiding stepping in someone else's bile, while maintaining a forum where people can disagree, sometimes rancourously, and do so without fear of offending some delicate flower of innocence. I think this can, and has on other sites, been accomplished by establishing a forum for that purpose.

Two of my other on-line-hangouts have succeeded in this regard. Arstechnica has a forum called "The Battlefront" and our own MacDoc's MAGIC site has "The Pub" with it's lightly moderated 'rowdy' rules. I think something like that could work well here at ehMac; if you're easily offended or don't like arguments, just stay out of that forum. And if, like me, you like to argue (and generally don't take it personally when someone takes a shot at you with some characters on a screen), jump in and do yer worst; just remember to restore your civilized veneer when you leave the room. Think of it as a virtual 'Fight Club.'

I've been a member here for over 7 years, and I've enjoyed some very engaging discussions with many of you. I doubt there's anyone here I couldn't find something substantive over which we disagree. And yet, there's no one I've interacted with here I wouldn't genuinely enjoy meeting in person.

Perhaps I'm socially maladjusted, but I like to argue. I intentionally take up contrary positions (often ones I don't seriously adhere to) just to enjoy the thrust and parry of intellectual disagreement. Some may consider it rude, and the fact that I've been forced to change my positions as the result of disagreements I've had here and elsewhere online may be taken by some as evidence of some fundamental personal weakness, but I genuinely enjoy loosing an argument.

What I don't appreciate (and what has precipitated my self-inflicted absence of late) is an overweening moderator who's desperately afraid someone's feelings may be hurt. But to be fair, the Mayor has been very up front and as consistent as any mortal could be expected to be about his posting guidelines, so I shouldn't complain about the occasional banning. So I strongly suggest the Mayor consider setting up a 'battlefront' or 'Pub' like form where those of us who choose to do so can argue without fear of being banned for calling someone out for posting an idiotic position (and I'm happy to admit I'm likely to be the first to the mat).

This is not to say that such a forum should be an unmoderated free-for-all. Any threatening posts, or hateful stuff should still be grounds for banning. And, as I've alluded to above, regardless of how heated disagreements may get in the ring, participants should be expected to remain civil and respectful outside of that context.

So that's my suggestion. Such a forum might even get folks like Beej back.

Cheers
 
#49 ·
As some of you have noticed, I've taken a few months holiday from ehMac, but this topic has brought me back.

Abstract: While I sympathize with the Mayor's desire to keep his site friendly and helpful (like Canada), attempting to do so by stifling dissent and debate about contentious issues is doomed to failure; either by success in creating a puerile play school, or by failure in the creation of an informational dictatorship. What is a worthwhile is to provide members who don't enjoy the, admittedly sometimes messy chaos of metaphysical melée an easy means of avoiding stepping in someone else's bile, while maintaining a forum where people can disagree, sometimes rancourously, and do so without fear of offending some delicate flower of innocence. I think this can, and has on other sites, been accomplished by establishing a forum for that purpose.

Two of my other on-line-hangouts have succeeded in this regard. Arstechnica has a forum called "The Battlefront" and our own MacDoc's MAGIC site has "The Pub" with it's lightly moderated 'rowdy' rules. I think something like that could work well here at ehMac; if you're easily offended or don't like arguments, just stay out of that forum. And if, like me, you like to argue (and generally don't take it personally when someone takes a shot at you with some characters on a screen), jump in and do yer worst; just remember to restore your civilized veneer when you leave the room. Think of it as a virtual 'Fight Club.'

I've been a member here for over 7 years, and I've enjoyed some very engaging discussions with many of you. I doubt there's anyone here I couldn't find something substantive over which we disagree. And yet, there's no one I've interacted with here I wouldn't genuinely enjoy meeting in person.

Perhaps I'm socially maladjusted, but I like to argue. I intentionally take up contrary positions (often ones I don't seriously adhere to) just to enjoy the thrust and parry of intellectual disagreement. Some may consider it rude, and the fact that I've been forced to change my positions as the result of disagreements I've had here and elsewhere online may be taken by some as evidence of some fundamental personal weakness, but I genuinely enjoy loosing an argument.

What I don't appreciate (and what has precipitated my self-inflicted absence of late) is an overweening moderator who's desperately afraid someone's feelings may be hurt. But to be fair, the Mayor has been very up front and as consistent as any mortal could be expected to be about his posting guidelines, so I shouldn't complain about the occasional banning. So I strongly suggest the Mayor consider setting up a 'battlefront' or 'Pub' like form where those of us who choose to do so can argue without fear of being banned for calling someone out for posting an idiotic position (and I'm happy to admit I'm likely to be the first to the mat).

This is not to say that such a forum should be an unmoderated free-for-all. Any threatening posts, or hateful stuff should still be grounds for banning. And, as I've alluded to above, regardless of how heated disagreements may get in the ring, participants should be expected to remain civil and respectful outside of that context.

So that's my suggestion. Such a forum might even get folks like Beej back.

Cheers
I agree. Ironically I ended having to mod a political forum full of rowdy mouths, and we found the more we put the screws down, the worse it got. I've seen this before. Sometimes, real truth is just thing at times, though, there really is a line that should not be crossed. And you're right, macdoc rowdy room seems to pretty much mod itself.

I don't mean any disrespect at all though to the mayors hard work in general on the site. Just an opinion.
 
#52 ·
Holster them six-shooters SINC...;)

Just because the Mayor wants this site to be "family friendly" does not mean there isn't a solution to the "Battelfield/Pub" issue.

I'm sure vbulletin is capable of having private sections where only those who request access can view and post messages.

So I suggest we create a couple of "anything goes" adult sections where we can loosen up a bit.

What do you say May'ah?
 
#69 ·
I definitely like the idea of a sister site as well. Lets face it, there's a lot that goes on that doesn't involve a Mac. Sad but true.. ;) Obviously, there's a lot of people interested in other topics and I certainly agree that it's probably enough people to warrant a completely separate site. This would also allow other folks, who aren't Macheads like us to be involved more, also possibly garnishing new users for ehMac as well. I think it's a win win, really. =)
 
#74 ·
So no one likes the idea of a private section right here on ehMac to discuss hot topics in a more relaxed and unmoderated (self moderated) fashion?

If you're 18+ you simply ask ehMax for access by filling out a disclaimer form, with an age check and your user name is added to a list which grants access. If someone doesn't have the stomach for it or is easily offended, they simply ask to be removed from the list or better yet, click on some "unsubscribe" link.

...and if there's a way from keeping it from search engines, so much the better.:D
 
#75 ·
I like this idea as well. I sort of tried this once, with a forum called the Vertigo Lounge or something like that, but we could also give that another go, and I think can make it more open with just a request to join.

We could do that, or I also like the idea of a larger Canadian non/Mac topic forum as well.
 
#76 ·
Seems to me the current system does work fairly well.

Sometimes a thread degenerates to two people trading insults, everyone else loses interest and the thread does die when one of the two realizes they don't really care.

Still some interesting ground does get covered and for what it's worth, at some point both sides usually do an adequate job of presenting their point of view no matter how flawed either POV may be.
 
G
#77 ·
I was much happier when they had their own forum personally. I think there's a place for them, but not mixed in with "everything else". I tend to avoid the everything else forum for the most part due to all of this avenue of stuff and the mayhem that often ensues. If they lived in their own forum it would be a place where people who were interested could venture and those of us that are not wouldn't have to weed through all of it to see the things that they might be interested in.
 
G
#82 ·
Also wanted to chime in on the thoughts of another separate forum/site ... I personally think it's a bad idea to splinter your user group, but that's just my opinion. I am on lots of forums now and don't have time to keep up with most, yet another one is not something that would entice me. I get what I need (whatever that is .. I'm not really sure!) from this forum as it is ;)
 
#83 ·
You know what, I don't care. I think I used to, mainly because I was new and was taken aback by how people attacked each other, but after awhile I realised that was the way they like to play, and it had nothing to do with me, and have learnt not to participate. I just don't like it when the take that attitude into the other threads.

And, as a few others said before me, I actually like the political threads during elections. I find it allows me another perspective, which helps my vote be more about the people in general, rather than just me and my circle of friends. Otherwise, I pretty much don't read them.

As for the religious threads, I just don't go there.
 
#84 ·
Political/religious discussions fit in the "Everything Else" forum. To remove them or not allow them is censorship.

If ehMacers don't want to be envolved, they can stay out by choice. If anyone gets out of hand and gets complaints, said posts can be reviewed and users can be sanctioned for not following guidelines as set out.

Free speech, baby. I tend to read and refrain from posting but that's my choice.
 
#85 ·
I agree, Macified. Years ago, I got involved in a discussion re Israel, and I received a variety of anti-semitic PMs. I have since stayed clear of such discussions re religion. What amazed me was that I was taking a position against the wall being built in Israel, but still received what might be considered anti-semitic comments. Paix, mon ami.
 
#87 ·
A technical issue does not require a Canadian perspective...it does not require any ethnological perspective at all. I can go to the Apple boards or any other strictly techie site for that. I think you see and realize that. Modelling ehMac after any of those would be the death knell of this site.

I would agree with SINC's opinion that the heart of ehMac is the "Everything Else" forum and I'm glad you'd never want to lose that because you'd be losing the community aspect of it. I also get the sense that the ipod/iphone/ipad forum is also a big part of this site and you wish to expand and capitalize on that. Nothing wrong with that, more power to ya. You got some decent mainstream press with respect to this site and that's great and worth protecting.

But as you know, people come and people go. Over the years I've seen many come in here, some with both guns blazing only to see them burn out and leave...never to come back. Others, in the prolific opinionated posters category, were permanently exiled by your very own hand. Most of us long time active members are here for a reason, and I think you appreciate, respect and understand that.

In any case you know where I stand on this.
- Having a special forum, where members request to participate and the rules are more relaxed
 
#88 ·
I see interest in Apple products as more than just a "technical issue" and there are many aspects of that interest that benefit from a Canadian perspective. Canadian iPhone carriers and plans, product availability in Canada, pricing in Canada, discussion of Apple store locations and openings, where to buy products in Canada, finding out about dealers like CanadaRam, MacDoc, the independents, iTunes Store Canada discussions, Internet providers in Canada, government / policy issues like iPod tax, data caps on providers, accounting software options in Canada, Canadian based Classified etc... etc...

In the near future, I hope to have many other items related to the site that are very much "Canadian". Things such as local meet ups, more resources like Mac related deals in Canada, a Canadian directory of dealers and other items.

I'm trying to model ehMac on what the community is interested in, hence this thread and poll. I also model ehMac after the things that I personally am interested in. I really love Mac products and I'm interested in hearing other people's experience with them, hence my desire to have product reviews. I love visiting product review sites on things I'm interested in like vacations, motorcycles, mountain bikes, home theatre equipment.

A lot of the community (and myself) are very interested in discussing topics other than Apple related, so I'm exploring ways to expand that.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top