The Torys and their dislike of criminals - Page 4 - ehMac.ca
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Old Sep 21st, 2009, 12:53 PM   #31
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as I'm sure any half wit can figure out. I thought I was merely stating the obvious, but apparently not.

It's only political and fair game when a liberal does it eh.
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Old Sep 21st, 2009, 01:58 PM   #32
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You just make no sense. Some dude that was a former Conservative snorts drugs, so you are calling the Tories out for being weak on crime? All kinds of people commit crime - so what's your point? Just because a political party makes it a point of being a little limp wristed on crime than another doesn't mean that there is some magic immunity that makes the members of that party entirely resist committing crimes on their own.

The Liberals are entirely weak on crime, and have been for decades, with such limp wristed policies like abolishing the death penalty, the Young Offenders Act, and other nonsense - and then going on to engage themselves in other patently illegal and furtive acts, like trying to buy votes in Quebec while being up to the nose with organized crime ventures - "programs" that were neither approved by Parliament even though they entirely used tax payers funds.

The Conservatives are weak on crime, but Harper is not Chretien or Martin when it comes to committing those crimes against the people of this nation.
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Old Sep 21st, 2009, 03:29 PM   #33
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the fact that you think it makes no sense, is comforting.

It's really so so simple. But when someone doesn't like the message, twisting as much as possible doesn't make it go away.

btw I don't consider abolishing the death penalty when several people who could have been murdered were found innocent many years later of a crime they spent many years in prison limp wristed..

That's intelligent.

Well it was interesting to see the conservatives spend a thread twisting things to make it better. We can return to the regularly scheduled "blame a liberal" now.
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Old Sep 21st, 2009, 05:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by groovetube View Post
It's really so so simple. But when someone doesn't like the message, twisting as much as possible doesn't make it go away.
The only twisting that I have seen is on your part, because you somehow equate the crimes of one person to an indictment of an entire national party consisting of tens of thousands of people who have not committed the same crime.

I do not see anyone disliking "the message". If the dude was actually doing cocaine, he deserves a minimum sentence of 10 years of hard labour, and the confiscation of all of his property and money - while the dope pusher that was selling him the goods deserves the death penalty.

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btw I don't consider abolishing the death penalty when several people who could have been murdered were found innocent many years later of a crime they spent many years in prison limp wristed..
By the same token, you must be in the position of abolishing all punishments, since many people are falsely accused of crimes on a daily basis.

The problem with Capital Punishment is not with the punishment - but in a corrupted system that can not match the justice doled out to the crimes committed. To eliminate the highest punishment simply means that we get to pay to store criminal scum like gang leaders, and freaks like Bernardo for years on the public dime, where they drain tens of thousands of dollars per year away while living a life of ease. It also creates a huge heap of victims that are further victimized, living in fear of the day these scum are paroled and back on the street committing the crimes they adore.

The notable cases which are normally used as "proof" that Capital Punishment is abused were all cases when the innocent were wrongly convicted even though there was no proof or connection with the crime they were indicted for, and where eyewitness testimony was entirely ignored for whatever political or racist purpose the authorities had.

One of the problems we had was that we attempted to build cases on circumstantial evidence rather than on actual proof. With technology and DNA evidence, the question of prosecuting the innocent can be entirely eliminated, and reserving Capital Punishment for those people of which we have absolute proof, like in the case of Bernardo where we have videotape and DNA evidence, and in Pickton, where we have all of the bodies buried around his "home".

The defects of inadequate justice should serve only to indict a defective justice system, where innocent people like Marshall were jailed simply because he was a Native - even though all the proof pointed to the white dude that eventually turned himself in; or to Morin where the only crime was falling asleep on the couch after a workday while watching TV; or in Truscott where the authorities completely ignored the testimony of many who saw a large Chrysler driving away from the scene, while the whole thing was pinned on Truscott, where the only crime was that he happened to chum around the girl that was murdered, and happened to be riding a bike.

We can entirely have proper Capital Punishment where those that are guilty, with no doubt at all, can face a proper sentence; while those that are innocent are rapidly cleared of any charges or suspicion.

Whether or not we have Capital Punishment - we are still faced with a faux justice system that inadequately protects the innocent, while dragging out cases until they are a substantial industry on their own. Those that do serve time end up with lenient sentences where they live a life of ease and lethargy, getting all of the drugs and prison sex they want and living like animals. They do not pay for their crimes, but neither does our system attempt to reform them. Prison becomes pogey by other means for all kinds of criminal filth, a time to chum with the homeys.

Worse is that they don't even serve their sentence, with the endless cycle of parole and shortened sentences, then dumped into the wasteland of a half way house where they are provided zero training, zero opportunity, and where it is nothing more than a comforable bed and some meals at night, while the practice their criminal behaviours during the day.

I see no party that will stand up and say that we need to actually enforce the laws we have. They are all about useless and hollow "bans" that do nothing, and about perpetuating a pathetic abuse of stupidity and pathos that is unrivalled in how it heaps the terror upon regular citizens and the victims of crime.

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...return to the regularly scheduled "blame a liberal" now.
The only thing I can say about "blaming Liberals" is that they were the party that has been long in power but short on actually doing anything about this mess, except to perpetuate it as some kind of industry.

Don't get me wrong, I can entirely heap blame on Conservatives as well, since they have been entirely weak on crime and have no progressive minded policies that would indicate any substantive change to the status quo. Nor did they during the 9 years of the Mulroney Government, when not one finger was lifted to eliminate "publication bans" or the "Young Offenders Act".

Of course, the Liberals committed many crimes themselves, by not defending minority rights, not defending the Constitution, by engaging in endless cycles of class warfare against the citizen, and by subverting the system for their greedy power grabs where power is attained and then frittered away on useless garbage rather than anything positive for the public at large.
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Old Sep 21st, 2009, 05:55 PM   #35
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The only twisting that I have seen is on your part, because you somehow equate the crimes of one person to an indictment of an entire national party consisting of tens of thousands of people who have not committed the same crime.
Let's just take the first sentence, because the rest is just verbal diarrhea.

Read your sentence again.

And tell me with a straight face that the conservatives haven't done that to the liberals. Their whole 2006 campaign was based on smearing anyone daring to call themselves a liberal as not to be trusted, for drug use, even at one point supporting child pornographers!

Excuse me while I laugh...
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Old Sep 21st, 2009, 09:39 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by groovetube View Post
And tell me with a straight face that the conservatives haven't done that to the liberals. Their whole 2006 campaign was based on smearing anyone daring to call themselves a liberal as not to be trusted, for drug use, even at one point supporting child pornographers!

Excuse me while I laugh...
Firstly, if that were the case, it isn't a defense for your statements. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Secondly, Adscam, as I recall, was actually perpetrated by the Liberal Party itself. The analogy of this to Jaffer would only exist if the Conservative party had been the one dealing the drugs. See the difference?
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Old Sep 21st, 2009, 11:58 PM   #37
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Firstly, if that were the case, it isn't a defense for your statements. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Secondly, Adscam, as I recall, was actually perpetrated by the Liberal Party itself. The analogy of this to Jaffer would only exist if the Conservative party had been the one dealing the drugs. See the difference?
The whole liberal party eh Vandave? You just fell right into the bin there din't you. It's ok for a conservative to swipe all liberals with one brush, but boy do you guys get your shirt tails in a knot when someone -dares- do it back. Man you conservatives can really dish, but not take it...

You can spend all the time you like, looking for the difference Vandave, if it makes you fell better.

You think it was ok to paint liberals as supporting child pornographers?

Al kinds of examples there Vandave. And this one in particular, this one spent a lot of time painting someone else as helping children do drugs.

-as a conservative-.

You're diggin yourself in a hole here.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2009, 12:12 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by groovetube View Post
The whole liberal party eh Vandave? You just fell right into the bin there din't you. It's ok for a conservative to swipe all liberals with one brush, but boy do you guys get your shirt tails in a knot when someone -dares- do it back. Man you conservatives can really dish, but not take it...

You can spend all the time you like, looking for the difference Vandave, if it makes you fell better.

You think it was ok to paint liberals as supporting child pornographers?

Al kinds of examples there Vandave. And this one in particular, this one spent a lot of time painting someone else as helping children do drugs.

-as a conservative-.

You're diggin yourself in a hole here.
Let's see... two sitting Prime Ministers were tied to Adscam. If Preston Manning and Stephen Harper were the ones dealing the coke, then you would have a point.

This isn't about my team versus your team.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the child porn issue.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2009, 12:20 AM   #39
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you do like to go in circles Vandave.

Google it, Harper and Martin. Harper is your star in that one.

I don't recall either sitting prime minister being charged with anything in adscam. Jaffer was, and as a conservative pointed the finger at the 'socialists'.

Man you just don't want to admit it do you. Both sides do it. It's the stuff of morons.
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Old Sep 22nd, 2009, 01:49 AM   #40
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To eliminate the highest punishment simply means that we get to pay to store criminal scum like gang leaders, and freaks like Bernardo for years on the public dime, where they drain tens of thousands of dollars per year away while living a life of ease.
it actually costs MORE to execute someone than imprisoning them for life.

(i know it's crazy... you'd figure just get some guy with a rusty axe, but it doesn't work like that).

I have mixed feelings on the death penalty. I think there are RARE instances where it could be used (i.e. when there is absolutely zero doubt and a mountain of evidence, and only in the very worst murder crimes)... but i'd hate for us to turn into Texas.
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