Canadians don't want Harper majority ..poll

MacDoc · Jul 13th, 2009, 07:58 AM

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	Canadians getting minority-government fatigue: Poll By Jennifer Ditchburn, THE CANADIAN PRESS OTTAWA - Minority-government fatigue seems to be setting in with voters. A new poll shows a spike in the number of Canadians who are pining for the days of federal majorities, and who might vote strategically in order to avoid the fourth straight minority in the next election. The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey showed 64 per cent of respondents prefer a majority over a minority government, up from 52 per cent two years ago. Only 24 per cent said they preferred a minority, as compared to 36 per cent in 2007. "What people went in with the hopes of was that it would help facilitate more coalition-building and more consensus-building within the parties, but in practice what it has yielded is more conflict with the parties and less getting done," said Jeff Walker, senior vice-president at Harris-Decima. In another question, the pollsters gave respondents four different scenarios to ponder: A Liberal majority or minority, or a Conservative majority or minority. The Liberals came out on top in both respects - with 30 per cent preferring a Liberal majority, and 14 per cent a Liberal minority, as compared to the 24 per cent who backed a Conservative majority and nine per cent who wanted a Conservative minority. Walker said the results are an indication that the Liberals are the second choice for a majority of Canadian voters, and that could be a significant factor in the next election. "There has the potential to be more strategic voting in this next election than maybe we've seen in the last couple of elections, with more pressure for there to be a majority government and more of a sense that maybe the minority concept doesn't quite work as well as people had hoped," said Walker. Despite the apparent weariness with minority governments, the poll suggested that slightly more Canadians - 45 per cent versus 42 per cent - would support the idea of a coalition government after the next election.

Canadians getting minority-government fatigue: Poll- Politics - Canoe.ca

Harper reaping the whirlwind of his continually destructive parliamentary tactics.....why he even wrote it down.....

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	Tories blasted for handbook on paralyzing Parliament Updated Fri. May. 18 2007 5:16 PM ET

CTV.ca | Tories blasted for handbook on paralyzing Parliament

Macfury · Jul 13th, 2009, 09:00 AM

I love this nonsense--as if voters decided amongst themselves to elect a minority government in the first place! Frightfully naive stuff, MacDoc

fjnmusic · Jul 13th, 2009, 01:31 PM

	Quote:			Originally Posted by Macfury
	I love this nonsense--as if voters decided amongst themselves to elect a minority government in the first place! Frightfully naive stuff, MacDoc

No. you're right Macfury. Minority governments only occur when the majority of voters do not endorse the party that happened to squeak by with more seats than anyone else.

EvanPitts · Jul 13th, 2009, 01:35 PM

	Quote:			Originally Posted by Macfury
	I love this nonsense--as if voters decided amongst themselves to elect a minority government in the first place! Frightfully naive stuff, MacDoc

^^^
And dangerous thinking to boot, since a Majority Government will surely bring back all of the horrors of endless policies of class warfare, and the Government doling out tons of cash to specious special interests. Maybe people would like to see more done by Parliament - but I for one am pretty happy that most of the garbage that is bandied around in Parliament dies in process, long before it is dished out to the people as punishment for being a taxpayer and citizen.

I'd like to see a Minority in Ontario, just so McGuilty would be forced to stop ruining the province, ramming garbage down the throats of Municipalities, and to make sure that people like Tory and his adherents wouldn't be able to act on their impulse to destroy education by disenfrachising those of faith, and of turning it into a machine of further politicization and indoctrination.

The only thing worse than a Fiberal Majority would be a Layton Majority, which would be spend-happy in doling out easycash to the lazy, drug addled welfraud artists, and scare every last business away. Of course, the best would be the impossible, a Bloc Majority, because that would end all of the nonsense with this whole French language thing, because the rest of the nation would be able to concentrate on providing human rights and dignities untainted by Jim Crow. Next best thing would be a real Conservative government, with actual Conservatives in it, who would create such things as a Justice system, and bring into play real punishments for crimes, and chopping at least half of the Civil Service that we simply do not need...

Rps · Jul 13th, 2009, 01:41 PM

The trouble is, not who gets in as much as the system we currently employ. With the population distribution we most certainly will be faced with endless minority governments unless we place a fixed date and fixed term.

I would also throw in term limits as well...and not just for the leaders. Being a member of any government should not be a career...that means [ and I'm sure Evan will like this ] no pensions for MPs and MPPs.

groovetube · Jul 13th, 2009, 02:48 PM

	Quote:			Originally Posted by fjnmusic
	No. you're right Macfury. Minority governments only occur when the majority of voters do not endorse the party that happened to squeak by with more seats than anyone else.

rofl

EvanPitts · Jul 13th, 2009, 03:14 PM

	Quote:			Originally Posted by Rps
	The trouble is, not who gets in as much as the system we currently employ. With the population distribution we most certainly will be faced with endless minority governments unless we place a fixed date and fixed term.

Our system suffers from a real problem of not putting in people that are suitable. There are far too many MPs that are there on the glad handling plan, and who really go to bat for whatever special interest passed them some cash, or a promise of a job afterwards. We have a few that actually work hard and live a moral lifestyle in service to the nation, but too many MPs end up in Ottawa, prostituting themselves for some degenerates who purchase the system.

Fixed election dates or term limits do not serve to repair the current system, as witnessed in Ontario when people got stiffed with four more years of McGuilty's klepotocracy and endless bad ideas put into play. Any change must be systemic, right to the root.

We need a Commons that is not only elected by the people of their ridings, but also to have MPs that are unfettered in their voting, except by the want of the Electors. Party whips would be banned, and every vote would be a free vote. If the Party wants support on some policy - they had better have a policy that is good enough for the Party to bother voting for. The insanity of "non-confidence" has to be ended, since it only makes the Party system even more unbendable, and even more subject to special interests and the current vote by a pack of party lemmings mentality.

What we need is proper recall procedures so that MPs are accountable to their ridings, added to a proper system of Impeachment to prosecute the corrupt. This is not only for MPs, but we need a freely elected Senate, with 1/3rd elected every 2 years, so that any Party that happens to gerrymander an election would have no more than a 2 year run at malfeasance.

We also need an Executive branch that is separate from the PMO - a real Executive, in charge of the Military, foreign relations, and with veto powers, one that is entirely elected by the people, and subject to a proper four year term, with a two term limit.

All top jobs in the Civil Service should be subject to public hearings, especially in the case of the Supreme Court, a body that has been thoroughly contemptuous in their constant attacks on human rights and dignities in this nation. Any potential appointee would have to gain the favour and votes of the Parliament in such a nomination process, which would end the spoils system we have now, stuffed with pals and buddies and retreads of whatever PM is in office.

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	Being a member of any government should not be a career...that means [ and I'm sure Evan will like this ] no pensions for MPs and MPPs.

I actually do not have a problem with hard working people, even if they are in Government, to score a proper pension for their efforts. It is a non-trivial job, high on stress - that in our country has been perverted by years of subjugation to the excesses of the abuses of power.

What I don't think should happen is the continuance of the current system, where MP's vote themselves huge salary increases, living high off of expenses that more often or not are used for personal expenses without justification, and the fact that they score a huge pension, pensions that regular people can not ever hope of obtaining, once they loose an Election.

They shouldn't be scoring their pension the day they leave Parliament - since regular folk can not get their own full pension until they are 65. I would think it would be entirely fair if an ex-MP received a fair pension once they are 65, and no longer working for the Government, and could receive a portion of that as early retirement at say, 60. Or maybe even a scheme like a Rule of 80, where once the age + number of years in Parliament = 80, and they are no longer working for the government, they could score a fair pension. The practice of double and triple dipping would have to end. Too many people get in as an MP, fail to make any reasonable contribution, end up thinking they are God's gift to the universe, then scoop huge wads of pension money for a job badly done, while ending up with fat jobs doing useless things because they gave tossed salad in Ottawa.

Term limits are a tougher thing, since we could end up loosing valuable people that would have much experience - and end up with a gaggle of newbies who have no idea of what is happening. Maybe term limits for the top jobs, like two terms, would be fair, but regular MPs and Senators would be able to continue to run as long as they can get Elected.

More of the term limit would have to concern a set Election Day, with half the Commons elected on every second year for a four year term; a third of the Senate elected on every second year for a six year limit; and whatever the top job is, like Governor-General or PM or whatever we want to call the head of the Executive, would have a four year term with a two term limit.

Other reforms would have to work to end the practice of having MPs or Senators from being elected with "minorities" - possibly by having a run off election where the top vote getters go back to the polls until someone had a full majority, or perhaps a system like Australia where people have second and third choices. I think run-offs would be more exciting, and would result in much closer majorities, so people wouldn't get carried away, especially with MPs that are unfettered by a Party whip.

We could have so much more - like a real system of Government, only if people didn't want to cling to the stale, outmoded system we have now, which is pretty much utterly useless, devoid of actual democracy, subject to corruption and graft and too much influence on behalf of lobbyists, etc...

All I know is we can't just have a few small edits to the current script - a fixed Election Day in Ontario has given us no panacea of decent and rational Governance, only an endless series of frauds, giant government cash cows, endless expensive studies on white elephants we can not afford, and bad policies that are leading to the degradation of urban areas while other bad policies are bankrupting agriculture and leading to a significant decline of rural life. Not only that - five years of McGuilty and not only has he not closed any of the coal fired power plants he promised to close - we still don't have a reliable train into Hamilton - something we previously had when MacDonald was a junior minister in the 1850's...

Rps · Jul 13th, 2009, 04:06 PM

A fixed date and term, i think, would help. The problem with minority governments is they spend too much time trying to defeat the other without looking like they are the bad guys. We really do expend too much money and energy on being the government rather than governing. Ask yourself, how many federal elections had we had in the last 6 years, and what was the result.

We also can't mix federal and provincial representation in the same breath. Federally, we have an imbalance of power between Ontario and Quebec. This could be fixed by an equal and elected Senate. I would think 2 from every province and territory would do. As for the House of Common... not sure how to fix the proportional representation issues and various parties. I would, however, not allow any party to run in a Federal election if it didn't run candidates in other provinces.

As for the provincial mess...not sure. They tried to fix that but first past the post won in Ontario. I think they lost it on the members without ridings. It would have been better, I think, if the parties were given a proportional vote rather than members.

Let the rant continue......

arminia · Jul 13th, 2009, 05:50 PM

Didn't we have a fixed date before the last election? What happened with that?

Rps · Jul 13th, 2009, 05:55 PM

Harper whimped out and used his legislative back door. We should have nailed that sucker shut!