Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 16,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by SINC
Not good enough by half. That sucks.
Any responsible company should have technology in place to automatically route 911 calls to the proper place. Leaving customers who subscribe to do their own location info is inexcusable and wide open to abuse as this poor family found out.
The risk is too great to make this service item a "tick the box below" kind of option.
Sinc I agree it is a horrible situation, but at least in my situation with Vonage I was made fully aware prior to agreeing to accept the service of the limitations of 911 service. I had to sign off that I understood. So while I agree that it is less than perfect, (I presume there must be some technical reason why I have to take the responsibility) if, god forbid, something like this should happen to my family and I didn't fulfil what I knew to be my obligation, and someone died, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. That is why I did so right away.
Now I am not trying to insinuate that this is the case here, I have no idea, it may still have been the vault of the VOIP provider or the call centre. But if it were because the user did not verify their location when they had been informed that they needed to do so to guarantee proper 911 support in the same manner that I had to, when it was made abundantly clear to me that it was a necessity, then the user should accept some responsibility.
By way of analogy if I buy the safest can in the world and fail to put on my seatbelt or ensure that all my passengers put on their seatbelts and I get into an accident and someone dies, I have to accept some responsibility. I can't realistically expect the car maker to take the blame when they did everything they could to keep me safe if I failed to do the one thing that I had to do to take advantage of the safety features that they provided.
__________________
WARNING: If you see links to ads in the above post, blame the ad-linking software used by the owners of this website. I do not endorse these links. Don't click on them.
Last edited by screature; May 1st, 2008 at 11:32 AM.
Without knowing all the details, some of you are jumping to conclusions just a bit.
__________________
Mac User since 1989
MacBook Pro 15.4"/2.33GHz Core 2 Duo/4GB/250GB HD/256MB VRAM
Mac mini/2.0GHz Core 2 Duo/1GB/120GB HD
PowerMac G4 "Sawtooth"/1.4Ghz G4/1GB/2 x 120GB HD/64MB ATI Radeon 8500
iPhone 3GS 32GB on Rogers Canada Master of the Art Of Geek.
Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 16,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgunde
This really is a tragic event.
Without knowing all the details, some of you are jumping to conclusions just a bit.
No one is jumping to any conclusions, the question of responsibility regarding VOIP 911 service was drawn into question and it is merely being discussed.
__________________
WARNING: If you see links to ads in the above post, blame the ad-linking software used by the owners of this website. I do not endorse these links. Don't click on them.
Any one who has lost someone close has some idea what these parents are going through. My guess is that losing a child is even harder than losing a parent. My heart goes out to them.
Personally I have no desire to switch to VOIP as it limits you ability to tell your ISP to shove it.
__________________ ~WARNING: If you see links to ads in the above post, blame the cheesy ad-linking software used by the owners of this website. These ad links were inserted without either my direct or implied permission. I do not endorse these links. Don't click on them.~
Do NOT Touch this computer!!! Touching this computer WILL cause irreversible brain damage.
Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 16,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgunde
This really is a tragic event.
Without knowing all the details, some of you are jumping to conclusions just a bit.
madgunde, where did you get the I support neutrality image in your signature I followed the link but I didn't see the image. I would like to do the same.
__________________
WARNING: If you see links to ads in the above post, blame the ad-linking software used by the owners of this website. I do not endorse these links. Don't click on them.
No one is jumping to any conclusions, the question of responsibility regarding VOIP 911 service was drawn into question and it is merely being discussed.
Fair enough, it's just that the discussion is focusing on the responsibility of the VOIP vendor and customer and it's quite possible that neither is as fault. It's quite possible this could be a technical/operational glitch that could have happened to any VOIP user regardless of which company they use or how vigilant they or their provider is in making sure the proper information is recorded.
That's an even scarier possibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by screature
madgunde, where did you get the I support neutrality image in your signature I followed the link but I didn't see the image. I would like to do the same.
__________________
Mac User since 1989
MacBook Pro 15.4"/2.33GHz Core 2 Duo/4GB/250GB HD/256MB VRAM
Mac mini/2.0GHz Core 2 Duo/1GB/120GB HD
PowerMac G4 "Sawtooth"/1.4Ghz G4/1GB/2 x 120GB HD/64MB ATI Radeon 8500
iPhone 3GS 32GB on Rogers Canada Master of the Art Of Geek.
Last edited by madgunde; May 1st, 2008 at 01:01 PM.
Personally I have no desire to switch to VOIP as it limits you ability to tell your ISP to shove it.
I don't see the connection. My VOIP phone is with Voicepulse, a completely separate company from my ISP.
It's true that if I were to change ISPs, my VOIP phone would be "down" for a short time, possibly as long as 24 hours; but I do not lack for access to an alternate phone at any time, so it's moot.
As for this tragic story, we simply don't know all the facts yet, so a rush to judgment is unwarranted. The truth will come out and (hopefully) the root causes identified and resolved.
Location: Aylmer (Gatineau) across the river from Ottawa
Posts: 16,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgunde
Fair enough, it's just that the discussion is focusing on the responsibility of the VOIP vendor and customer and it's quite possible that neither is as fault. It's quite possible this could be a technical/operational glitch that could have happened to any VOIP user regardless of which company they use or how vigilant they or their provider is in making sure the proper information is recorded.
That's an even scarier possibility.
Absolutely. It is absolutely unfortunate, but it usually does take a tragedy of one sort or another to highlight and pin point any system's weaknesses. It is often only then that redundant safeguards can be put into place. Hopefully if there is any good to come out of this it will be that the lessons learned will guarantee that this kind of thing will never happen again.
__________________
WARNING: If you see links to ads in the above post, blame the ad-linking software used by the owners of this website. I do not endorse these links. Don't click on them.
Not good enough by half. Any responsible company should have technology in place to automatically route 911 calls to the proper place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunTheWorldOnMac
I'm with Sinc on this one...can't blame the owners, the provider is at fault.
What is the most advanced computer in the world? The HUMAN BRAIN!
So just to be clear...
Humans failing to use their brains... VOIP company's fault.
VOIP company's computer not being smarter than humans... VOIP company's fault.
Groovy! It's the VOIP company's fault all the way around!
Ya, that's gotta be the lamest excuse ever. Failure to use your brain is YOUR fault. Nobody else's.
This incident is a tragedy, but if the family failed to follow through on registering their 911 location, then they have nobody to blame but themselves. If on the other hand they DID register their 911 location, and the VOIP company screwed up, then we've got a problem.
I think in the rush to use VOIP and cell phones there is a risk that our landline phone infrastructure may start to be abandoned or not kept in repair. I think if the phone companies start to show signs that this is happening the government should step in to maintain it, at least until we have an alternative system in place that is as hardy as landlines.
Where I live on a somewhat rural island, the power goes out regularly. The internet does not work here when the power goes out, whether you have a UPS or your own generator or other alternative power source. The cable infrastructure is hooked up to the power grid and needs it to be on to operate, maybe that's different in other places. So your VOIP phone, which a few people have here, becomes useless. Cell phones are hit or miss, I'm not sure but I don't think all of the cell towers here have their own independent power. In emergencies, the cell network gets overloaded much faster than the landline phones. When the 4-point-something quake hit here a few years back cell service in the whole region went down almost immediately.
As long as you have an old style corded phone to plug in the old fashioned landline works even in a power outage. There is a small amount of power that runs on the phone lines that is enough to keep it operating. It's a good idea for everyone to have one stashed away somewhere for extended power outages, our here can sometimes last as long as 2 or 3 days.
I really hope we don't get into a situation where the old regional telephone monopolies, like Telus here in BC, no longer see a business case for keeping up the landline infrastructure. At least I hope that the government agencies responsible are aware of the value of this infrastructure to their emergency plans.
Linear Mode
