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Old May 6th, 2007, 04:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MacDoc View Post
Once more in both representation type, upper lower house dynamics and election timing legislation, Australia is making us look very primitive.

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/r...-06/06rn04.htm
Precisely how does AU's approach make us, "look very primitive"?
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Old May 6th, 2007, 04:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by zoziw View Post
That is pretty close to what we have in the Charter:



I think this is more of a reaction to what Chretien did during his majority governments (calling early elections when situations favourved him and to keep Martinites at bay) than anything.

Still, if a scandal or other unexpected incident occurs shortly before an election must be called, the PM can't dodge it and wait for more favourable times (although, if his constitutional 5 years is coming to and end he would be in trouble in the old system as well).
The argument that ensues is when the writs are indeed returned. Usually not more than a few months in the difference between the day of the election and when the writs are returned. The point I make is for clearer notion of 5 years from a specific day known all.
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Old May 6th, 2007, 04:45 PM   #13
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The point I make is for clearer notion of 5 years from a specific day known all.
What is the advantage of that marginal change?
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Old May 6th, 2007, 04:46 PM   #14
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They have an effective, elected and representative upper house for regional interests with power.

Quote:
The Senate

The Senate has 76 Senators - 12 are elected for each of the 6 states, and 2 each for the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory. State Senators are elected for 6 year terms, territory Senators for 3 year terms.

Historically, the Senate has been regarded as a State's House: the States enjoy equal representation in the Senate, regardless of their population, and State matters are still important to Senators.

The modern Senate is a very powerful Chamber. Bills cannot become law unless they are agreed to in the same terms by each House, except in the rare circumstances of a double dissolution followed by a joint sitting of both the houses

The Senate has a highly developed committee system and Senators spend much of their time on committee work.
They have fewer politicians 76 senators and 150 MPs.
http://www.aph.gov.au/parl.htm

They dumped FPTP in 1918
http://aceproject.org/ace-en/topics/es/esy/esy_au

They have midterm elections for the upper house with longer terms and partial election roll overs.

as I was saying.....we're primitive.

http://www.aph.gov.au/parl.htm is well worth looking at for changes to our system.

Oh I forgot....mandatory voting 94 % voter turnout.
http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/What/...nout/index.htm
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Old May 6th, 2007, 04:56 PM   #15
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Elected senates do not seem to be a superior system, just an alternative that seems unnecessary (ie. different, not more developed) and their 3-year aspects seem wasteful. "Advanced" to me would not include a senate and, if it did, would not have an elected one. You want how many kicks at the can to figure out your voting intentions? Fewer politicians, while I would prefer it, is not necessarily more advanced. That is an assumption. Tighter voter-to-rep approaches can also be considered more advanced, especially with information technology, suggesting more representation or closer to direct democracy (I do not agree with this absolute).

A PR or AV system does seem to be an advancement (subjective, but some evidence behind it), but your blanket statement is unfounded. More "something else" than "something better" although element of both are in there. Keep in mind that the standard, "someone else" argument is not one of advancement no matter how much you love using it.

So no, we are not primitive. We are different and can learn from them, as they can learn from us and we both need to see the differences in our situations that result in different approaches.
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Old May 6th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #16
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Primitive...we're trying to "fix" things they've dealt with already.

Democratic reform is NOT high on their list - it's critical for us.
We have low turnout, low trust, too many pols, poor representation and game playing in the FPTP and a stupid upper house.
We're a mess - they're not.
Primitive comes pretty close.....stupid could apply too.
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Old May 6th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #17
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When all the politicians know when the election is coming they tend to be begin hard-core politiking (see U.S. presidential elections) way too early. Fixed election dates may erode some government efficiency.
We would need some government efficiency to begin with before we can erode any.

Seriously, this has been a long-time argument, but doesn't hold up. Since the party in power currently has the ability to set the election date, they can begin their politicking before the opposition has a chance to ramp things up. The fixed election date just levels the playing field.

This could actually make our government MORE efficient. Now people will be able to see politicking leading up to an election a lot more clearly.
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Old May 6th, 2007, 07:05 PM   #18
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What is the advantage of that marginal change?
About as much as the changes of Bill C-16 without looking so American 4 years indeed.
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