You're right, we didn't need to go into Afghanistan but, hey, if the Americans are willing to bring down a truly reprehensible ruling clique then we might as well make sure that it ends up a better place.
This is a joke right?
Maybe we (I'm also American as well as Canadian) should start at home. Or perhaps in a country with even worse problems (North Korea).
Still you continue to ignore your own admissions. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SUPPORT TO FIX AFGHANISTAN!!!! You have admitted this but you still cling to this fantasy about making Afghanistan a bastion of democracy despite your own admissions that we lack the will to succeed. Afghanistan will not end up better, it is going to end up a blood bath and people like you will be to blame. You have not answered to any of my postings except to say "it is the only chance we have". I have asked you to back up this idea of a chance and you continually fail to do so because you know that you are living a fantasy. Again as you have admitted there is not the will to see this through and you have still not explained how a half measure is better than leaving Afghanistan alone while I have pointed out that a half measure means more civilians killed now and in the future when the US backed troops leave and the revenge killing starts. The longer we are in Afghanistan, the more people are going to be tortured and killed when we leave.
__________________
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This is a joke right?
Maybe we (I'm also American as well as Canadian) should start at home. Or perhaps in a country with even worse problems (North Korea).
Given the attitudes around here, I doubt very much that people are even willing to start at home. Even staring down the barrel of a gun there'd be hand-wringing as to what to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martman
Still you continue to ignore your own admissions. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SUPPORT TO FIX AFGHANISTAN!!!! You have admitted this but you still cling to this fantasy about making Afghanistan a bastion of democracy despite your own admissions that we lack the will to succeed.
First off, I never said I wanted Afghanistan to be a bastion of democracy. Second, why don't the whiners of the West press their governments to press the other wimps to push harder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by martman
Afghanistan will not end up better, it is going to end up a blood bath and people like you will be to blame. You have not answered to any of my postings except to say "it is the only chance we have". I have asked you to back up this idea of a chance and you continually fail to do so because you know that you are living a fantasy. Again as you have admitted there is not the will to see this through and you have still not explained how a half measure is better than leaving Afghanistan alone while I have pointed out that a half measure means more civilians killed now and in the future when the US backed troops leave and the revenge killing starts. The longer we are in Afghanistan, the more people are going to be tortured and killed when we leave.
It's pathetic really. It really is. Leave Afghanistan and then what happens? A religious theocracy where people are tortured and killed in any case? Is that what you want?
Do you want a "state" which will provide a safe haven for a terrorist group that's shown itself more than capable of launching attacks on Western targets?
You will say "no" of course but what sort of excuses are you going to hide behind? The accidental killing of civilians? Conveniently forgetting that the enemy are deliberately targetting civlians. The deaths of Western soldiers? What? Did you think that war was clean and free of death? The cost of the effort? Too cheap to protect your way of life?
What sort of contemptible excuses are you willing to trot out in order to justify the existence of a failed state that's willing to harbour a terrorist group out to slit your throat at the first chance it gets?
It's pathetic really. It really is. Leave Afghanistan and then what happens? A religious theocracy where people are tortured and killed in any case? Is that what you want?
Do you want a "state" which will provide a safe haven for a terrorist group that's shown itself more than capable of launching attacks on Western targets?
You will say "no" of course but what sort of excuses are you going to hide behind? The accidental killing of civilians? Conveniently forgetting that the enemy are deliberately targetting civlians. The deaths of Western soldiers? What? Did you think that war was clean and free of death? The cost of the effort? Too cheap to protect your way of life? Keep waving the flag and tying yellow ribbons to things.
That will surely win the conflict!
Firstly Afghanistan has nothing to do with my way of life. This is just BS spewed by the gov't to wip us into fear.
Second A botched adventure in Afghanistan is not going to stop the Islamists from effing up Afghanistan.
Third torture is not just the province of the Taliban. (What planet are you hiding on?)
Fourth What is pathetic is your insistence that leaving Afghanistan in the future will be any better than leaving Afghanistan now.
Afghanistan WILL be ruled by some form of theocracy. We can't prevent it. The Northern Alliance types are just as Conservative as their Taliban counterparts. Their show of moderation (sic) is just that a show. When we leave the honor killings, the religious cops, the burkas, and the torture will go on. The only difference is we have some amount of influence on the NA. Problem is they can't rule the country without us and we are not willing to occupy Afghanistan forever.
Hell most of this is going on right now. You think the Northern Alliance isn't torturing people? All we are doing is prolonging the inevitable and by doing so making the inevitable worse. Afghanistan is going to have to solve its own problems and will never be able to do so while we are in there with our armies effing things up. All our invasion is doing is setting up another civil war in Afghanistan. They just finished one a year before the US invasion. Now they will have another.
Meanwhile you keep talking about the mission like people are going to magically fall into your political line. Support is shrinking not growing yet you still stand on the sideline waving your flag and cheering like that is enough. You support this mission so much? Why don't you join the army and go fight?
Oh right, maybe you don't support the mission that much. Talk about pathetic.
Keep tying yellow ribbons to things and waving that flag. That will win the conflict.
__________________
"The tyranny of the ignoramuses is insurmountable and assured for all time" -- Albert Einstein
G5 dual 1.8ghz rev A
iBook G4 800mhz
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Firstly Afghanistan has nothing to do with my way of life. This is just BS spewed by the gov't to wip us into fear.
What a laugh! Did u miss my thread on how al-Qaeda states its intent on conquering the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by martman
Second A botched adventure in Afghanistan is not going to stop the Islamists from effing up Afghanistan.
Then, why not insist on improving the mission rather than just pulling out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by martman
Third torture is not just the province of the Taliban. (What planet are you hiding on?)
Let's get this through your head if possible. We can leave and let the Taliban go around torturing people or we can stay and possibly have an influence on what goes on. Hrmmm...I don't know but it seems awfully simple to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martman
Fourth What is pathetic is your insistence that leaving Afghanistan in the future will be any better than leaving Afghanistan now.
Not that you would know now would you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by martman
Afghanistan WILL be ruled by some form of theocracy. We can't prevent it. The Northern Alliance types are just as Conservative as their Taliban counterparts. Their show of moderation (sic) is just that a show. When we leave the honor killings, the religious cops, the burkas, and the torture will go on. The only difference is we have some amount of influence on the NA. Problem is they can't rule the country without us and we are not willing to occupy Afghanistan forever.
There, highlighted in bold is the difference!
Quote:
Originally Posted by martman
All our invasion is doing is setting up another civil war in Afghanistan.
No, I believe that our invasion is one way of forestalling al-Qaeda from having a base area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martman
Meanwhile you keep talking about the mission like people are going to magically fall into your political line. Support is shrinking not growing yet you still stand on the sideline waving your flag and cheering like that is enough. You support this mission so much? Why don't you join the army and go fight?
Oh right, maybe you don't support the mission that much. Talk about pathetic.
Keep tying yellow ribbons to things and waving that flag. That will win the conflict.
The only flag I've seen being waved around here happens to be lily-white.
U.S.-led coalition and Afghan troops killed up to 75 suspected Taliban militants in three separate clashes in southern Afghanistan, officials said Tuesday.
__________________
"The tyranny of the ignoramuses is insurmountable and assured for all time" -- Albert Einstein
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B&W G3 400mhz
What a laugh! Did u miss my thread on how al-Qaeda states its intent on conquering the world?
Then, why not insist on improving the mission rather than just pulling out?
Let's get this through your head if possible. We can leave and let the Taliban go around torturing people or we can stay and possibly have an influence on what goes on. Hrmmm...I don't know but it seems awfully simple to me.
Not that you would know now would you?
There, highlighted in bold is the difference!
No, I believe that our invasion is one way of forestalling al-Qaeda from having a base area.
The only flag I've seen being waved around here happens to be lily-white.
1) USA wants to run the world too. Neither is going to happen.
2)Because the mission doesn't have enough support to succeed. With out that support the mission is WORSE than no mission.
3) NA tortures people and supports theocracy. Their "moderation" only lasts as long as it is expedient for them.
4) Whatever. As I said before, I don't see you enlisting.
5) As I said this difference only lasts as long as it is expedient. When we go so does the pretense. Meanwhile the OPIUM production is up and we are basically funding it.
6) Good for you.
7) Are you referring to the fact you haven't enlisted? I thought so.
__________________
"The tyranny of the ignoramuses is insurmountable and assured for all time" -- Albert Einstein
G5 dual 1.8ghz rev A
iBook G4 800mhz
Molar Mac (G3 AIO) 233mhz
B&W G3 400mhz
Quote:
U.S.-led coalition and Afghan troops killed up to 75 suspected Taliban militants in three separate clashes in southern Afghanistan, officials said Tuesday.
A few weeks ago, there was a rally on ehMac to save one American life, somebody who potentially had an unfair trial, and faced the death penalty. Now we have people applauding the death of 75 SUSPECTED militants. I wonder how fair their trial was.
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