Taliban wins in Afghanistan? - ehMac.ca
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Old Jul 21st, 2006, 11:55 PM   #1
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Taliban wins in Afghanistan?

Quote:
Afghanistan steps backward

This, says the government of Afghanistan that Canadians are fighting to support, will be a kinder, gentler ministry for the suppression of vice and the promotion of virtue. Believe that if you can.

The government of President Hamid Karzai said Tuesday that it will re-establish something like the Taliban religious police, which systematically banned education for girls, anything remotely like free expression, the employment of women, the trimming of beards by men, even card-playing and kite-flying. The price of such "vice" was often beating or summary imprisonment, sometimes worse.

The announcement was the latest of Karzai's efforts to mollify religious hardliners and some tribal leaders, all of them eager to reduce the authority of the central government and to slow or reverse the progress of dangerous ideas such as equality before the law. How Karzai imagines he bolsters his authority by giving it away is a question we look forward to hearing him answer.

Beyond a doubt Karzai has a tightrope to walk as he tries to build a real government from an intractable country full of warlords, tribalists regional factions. Some will argue that he knows best how to stay up there.
But the rebirth of Afghanistan's "vice" police is plainly counter-productive to human rights. And that cause is vital, if not central, to Karzai's foreign friends, Canadians not least.
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...3-e841f10322a4

With all the news from Israel/Lebanon this may has slipped under the radar.

So what pressures should the Canadian government exercise here? Does it go against our stated goals of exterminating the the Taliban or is it coming back another way?
Or is the reality that Karzai's regime has no choice?

Should we let it happen because it fall under their definition of rights and freedom?


The other news noted today was
Quote:
Afghanistan close to anarchy, warns general

The most senior British military commander in Afghanistan yesterday described the situation in the country as "close to anarchy" with feuding foreign agencies and unethical private security companies compounding problems caused by local corruption.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanista...826479,00.html

This sounds like the situation in Iraq. I guess when you subcontract a way, this kind of crap happens.

Is Canada's effort there fruitless?
Other notable news - Americans dropped a bomb 5 m from our soldiers and our base came under rocked attack
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 06:48 AM   #2
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Afghanistan certainly wasn't going to magically transform to 'Canada-style' or close. We'll see how this one develops. If it is just, "alcohol, drugs, and corruption" and such, that's one thing (conventional corruption, not a wide swath of 'moral' corruption). If it's the Taliban Police Department, that's another.

I'm not sure how this can be prejudged unless they actually come out and list oppressive goals beyond the usual silly prohibitions that many nations still practice or did practice relatively recently.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 07:18 AM   #3
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You can't force a country to be democratic. If anyone actually thought that the religious extremists were going to simply shrivel up and disappear, they need their head examined.

Once the US pulls out of Iraq, it will degrade into the state it once was. The only way for nations to change is for the people of the country to force change.

We shouldn't meddle with the affairs of other governments. Sure, we know they are ass-backwards in beliefs and treatment of women.

Think of these nations as children. You can't beat a young child and expect him to become an adult overnight. You need guide the child, and discipline him when he behaves poorly.

Trade sactions are a good start. I'm all for banning government officials from these backwards countries from entering our country. It would be like inviting my neighbour, who beats his wife, into my home for tea and biscuits.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 07:25 AM   #4
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I did see that news earlier and was surprised that the U.S. or Canada didn't comment
yet Canadian soldiers keep dying for a people seemingly unwilling to accept democratic reform

recall the recent story of the Afghani who was sentenced to death for the crime of being Christian
eventually the enlightened Afghani supreme court reduced his sentence to exile
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 07:42 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MACSPECTRUM
yet Canadian soldiers keep dying for a people seemingly unwilling to accept democratic reform
Canada was a democracy that didn't allow women to vote. There are also many more things that can be listed based on gender, race (e.g. Chinese head tax), religion and more.

Simply saying, "people seemingly unwilling to accept democratic reform" misses the point about developing democracies, how "democracy" evolves and what democratic reform actually means.

Expecting Afghanistan to leap from where it was to anywhere near Canada's level of social liberalism would be nuts. Step-by-step is the way, just like most democracies develop. That's democratic reform.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 07:43 AM   #6
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yeah, step by step and Cdn. death by Cdn. death
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 07:46 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MACSPECTRUM
yeah, step by step and Cdn. death by Cdn. death
If we can help with this long-term process (we may disagree on if we can) do you think it's worth it if it costs Canadian lives?
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 08:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beej
If we can help with this long-term process (we may disagree on if we can) do you think it's worth it if it costs Canadian lives?
if i offer to sell you the Brooklyn bridge, would you buy it?
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 08:23 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by MACSPECTRUM
if i offer to sell you the Brooklyn bridge, would you buy it?
You?
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Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 08:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beej
the same can be said of the attempt at peaceful democratic reform in Aghanistan

poppy production is up
human rights are down
US puppet gov't doing what it is told

oh, and where is USAma?

one of the world's most recognized faces and one who has kidney problems shouldn't be THAT hard to find
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