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Old May 12th, 2006, 11:05 AM   #1
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Canadian Firearms Laws

I recently discovered that in some U.S. states, it is actually legal for a resident to carry a concealed handgun with the proper permits and license. As far as I know, under no circumstances, is it legal to carry a concealed weapon in any Canadian province, no?
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Old May 12th, 2006, 11:08 AM   #2
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It is not legal to carry a concealed weapon in any province.

Matter of fact, if I recall correctly, even a licensed hand gun owner has to transport a weapon in full view within the vehicle, not concealed.
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Old May 12th, 2006, 09:16 PM   #3
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It is extremely rare, but there have been exceptions made for civilians to cary a concealed firearm. The conditions under which such a permit is issued are extreme and I believe must be sanctioned by law enforcement and/or the justice system.
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Old May 12th, 2006, 09:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kps
It is extremely rare, but there have been exceptions made for civilians to cary a concealed firearm. The conditions under which such a permit is issued are extreme and I believe must be sanctioned by law enforcement and/or the justice system.
Interesting kps. Under what circumstances would that be?
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Old May 12th, 2006, 09:42 PM   #5
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Let the great gun debate of May 2006 begin. I predict 13 pages.

I did a bunch of searching on http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/default_e.asp and couldn't find specifically under what circumstances persons are allowed to carry concealed weapons. I would imagine undercover police officers would be allowed to. I can't imagine private citizens having that right in Canada. Hopefully it will never happen.
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Old May 12th, 2006, 09:45 PM   #6
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Last edited by SkyHook; Jul 19th, 2008 at 01:30 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2006, 09:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHook
No argument, but it does run completely opposite the idea of a gun locked in a gun case in your trunk.

Do you mean, in the sense that a pistol in a case in the trunk is not concealed, so to speak?

I thought any gun under transport had to be under lock, with some strange exception about in-season rifles with game tags or something. I even thought pistols weren't allowed to be in storage unless going to or from a destination intended for the weapon, which is why a cop in Calgary got in so much trouble over his gun stolen from a briefcase in his car; other than the obvious, that a cop had his gun stolen.
I am going from memory from a very detailed post made by gordguide a few months back outlining transport of hand guns legally.

For some reason I seem to recall his post detailing that you could not conceal a hand gun under transport and I think the gun case had to be in full view of a peace officer if you were stopped.

Perhaps gordguide can fill us in on this aspect as I am no expert. I don't even own a gun.
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Old May 12th, 2006, 10:00 PM   #8
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I sent gordguide a PM to see if he would offer an opinion. It would certainly be a welcome addition to the thread.
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Old May 12th, 2006, 10:13 PM   #9
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I did say it's rare and the circumstances are extreme or unique. AFAIK, there is only a handful of these 'carry' permits issued and not under any firearms regulation that can be searched on-line. Geez Guytoronto.

It has been revealed that ex-Prime Ministers, Crown Attorneys (prosecuting Organized Crime cases) and even Crown witnesses have been issued such permits.

Google away..
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Old May 14th, 2006, 03:52 PM   #10
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Hi SINC. You need the Permit To Convey (apparently they now refer to this document as the "Authorization To Transport"), and it's good for point A to point B only. You need to travel by a direct and reasonable route.

The actual regulations cover only the following; quotes are from the Act:

Storage during transport by individuals (the regulations for businesses are essentially identical):

Basically, it must be unloaded, rendered inoperable by a secure locking device, in a "container" of "opaque material" that is "of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot be readily broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation" that "does not have any markings on its exterior that could indicate that a weapon, a prohibited device or ammunition is in it". You can have your name and address marked on the outside, but that's about it.

The vehicle must be in your "direct and immediate supervision"; you must be licensed to convey the weapon (which also means you cannot be under 18 years of age, since you would be ineligible to have a permit to convey if you were).

The regulations do not specifically mention whether the unmarked container should be visible or not if you are in the vehicle; but the "direct and immediate supervision" does imply that it's fine if it is and you are there. They don't mind if you transport in a locked trunk, though.

They also state that if you leave the vehicle for any reason, the container must not be visible from the outside of the vehicle, and wherever it is, that area must be locked at all times.

The penalty for unsafe or unlawful transport is up to 5 years in Prison.

I would expect the Gun-In-A-Briefcase failed the "cannot be readily opened by force or accident" part.

Having said all that, I know one person who was charged with unsafe transport when they stopped at a store briefly (less than 2 minutes), with a properly stored weapon and the vehicle locked. The officer claimed that a window that was down about an inch for the benefit of a dog inside made it tantamount to an unlocked vehicle.

Eventually the person won in court, but none the less the charge was laid and his weapon was under confiscation for roughly 6 months.

Similarly, if you have a permit and you are stopped by police, I think it wise to immediately indicate where, exactly, it's located. If they bothered to do a CPIC check before they stopped you, they will know you have a handgun permit issued to you before they approach the vehicle.

It also should be noted that the Firearms Act is one that is written in such a way that it can be modified, and is modified rather often, by Order In Council; if you're not familiar with that, it means, basically, that the Cabinet more-or-less arbitrarily decides to alter the law. Typically this involves banning specific models of guns from time to time, but they can play with any part of it if they want. So, these things change from time to time and it's the onus of the gun owner to keep up; another reason why they tend to be members of a gun club or organization; they need to keep informed or they're in jeopardy of unknowingly breaking some regulation that comes into force or is amended quietly.

As far as permits for concealed weapons, you essentially need to be an peace officer of some kind with a bona fide reason; it's not a carte blanche either; they will take a dim view of such things as carrying it while on vacation. Private Investigators, Bodyguards, and the like cannot carry a concealed weapon, and although I have no idea where you would be able to confirm it, I'm told no private citizen has ever had a concealed carry permit issued in Canada since at least the early 70's and possibly before.

Who knows how true that is; I would guess the true extent is more or less impossible to discover, given the nature of the reason such a permit might be issued, but then again I'm pretty confident that it's not as common as people assume; and it may well be unheard of. I don't know if Crown Prosecutors and ex-Prime Ministers fall directly under "some kind of peace officer", but I'm willing to agree you could stretch it so it fits.

I'm not sure how you would even be in a position to apply for one: "Personal Defense" is an option on the Application for a Handgun Permit, but it's a "trap question"; checking that box is automatic grounds for refusal, now or in the future. Perhaps Brian Mulroney can check that box and get his gun, but I would suggest everyone else avoid that particular box myself.

In essence, if you need the Concealed Carry permit, you must have lied on the Application for a Restricted Weapon, when you said you were interested in target shooting at your gun club or engaging in the sport of competition shooting (the only reasons we issue non-collector handgun permits in Canada to persons outside the administration of justice) and that is also grounds for revoking the permit in the first place.

As far as the US goes, most states offer concealed carry permits to private citizens, and carrying without a permit is often reduced to a misdemeanor if you're not judged to be a "bad guy" and they find something in the glove box. Many states allow open carries without permits of any kind; in some parts of the US you are unlikely to be able to finish your grocery shopping without seeing a holster and a 44 Magnum on someone's hip. I'm pretty sure I saw at least one every time I went shopping in Arkansas.

Last edited by gordguide; May 14th, 2006 at 04:24 PM.
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