Chilcare (or whatever): Rich get richer, poor poorer - Page 5 - ehMac.ca
Facebook
Twitter
YouTube
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 03:08 PM   #41
Honourable Citizen
 
Loafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
People should be careful when complaining about childcare.

Why should MY tax dollars go to taking care of YOUR child, while YOU work?
This caught my eye, I will read the rest of it once I get this off my chest...

guytoronto,
You should pay for my child's daycare because in 30 years time he'll be paying for you to get your garbage emptied when you're retired and living the life.
Loafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 03:19 PM   #42
On Vacation
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 7,966
Send a message via AIM to ArtistSeries Send a message via MSN to ArtistSeries Send a message via Yahoo to ArtistSeries
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuiver
Quebecs program is not all sunshine and lollypops. First off the Province is sinking in debt and this program is crying for more $$$, the program has huge waiting lists and the consequences of institutionalized children is just coming to light.
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...757802&k=45887
No one said that Quebec's program was without fault.
The Charest government (Liberal in name only) has cut funding to it - while dolling out more corporate welfare.
There is a mixture of private and public daycare in Quebec - in other words, choice.
The "study" in the article has been discussed here already.
ArtistSeries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 03:22 PM   #43
Honourable Citizen
 
da_jonesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grimsby, ON
Posts: 3,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Under 18 mother? Child should be put into the adoption system, with grandparents and family getting first crack.

a) Eliminates the problems of a 14yo girl trying to raise a baby.
b) Gives a child to a family who wants it.
c) Eliminates the problems of young girls who WANT to get pregnant (calling Maury Povich), because they wouldn't be allowed to keep the baby.
Are you on Crack?

care to justify any of those?
da_jonesy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 03:24 PM   #44
Honourable Citizen
 
da_jonesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grimsby, ON
Posts: 3,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loafer
This caught my eye, I will read the rest of it once I get this off my chest...

guytoronto,
You should pay for my child's daycare because in 30 years time he'll be paying for you to get your garbage emptied when you're retired and living the life.

Well said
da_jonesy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 03:27 PM   #45
Assured Advertiser
Honourable Citizen
 
MacDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Planet Earth.....on FASTER boil :-(
Posts: 30,836
Funny how the CD Howe Institute starts to trumpet this US report purportedly regarding the Quebec Healthcare system.

Quote:
The Quebec system, while unique in North America is actually (according to the Organization for Economic cooperation and Development) the norm in most of the developed countries in the world which provide near-universal, high quality, affordable child care. The child development research in those
countries consistently demonstrates both the short- and long-term benefits of these child care arrangements.
Thus, one major problem with the NBER report is that it contradicts nearly an entire generation of robust and consistent findings that demonstrate the positive effects of quality care on young children. Further, the NBER’s conclusions are also in direct contradiction with those of world-class economists such as the Nobel Prize Winner for Economics, both of whom have spoken out strongly for the economic, labor and family benefits of child care programs.

Another major problem with the study is that it doesn’t actually study children who are enrolled in child care programs. A careful reading of the report reveals that they examined the possible effects of child care on children who were “eligible” for Quebec’s child care program but who were not necessarily enrolled in any child care programs at all. In fact, the “findings” of increased aggression in children could just as easily be attributed to the children who were NOT enrolled in a child care program.

What Canadians Need to Know About Good Quality Child Care

A third problem is the study’s misuse of the data provided by the Canadian National Longitudinal Survey of Children and Youth (NLSCY) which reports parental assessments of their children’s social, emotional, motor and cognitive development. The NBER examined the average Quebec NLSCY scores on a
series of five different groups of children sampled before or after the implementation of the child care plan in Quebec.
They did not follow individual children over time, examining their development before, during, and after they were enrolled in child care. In other words, they have no direct way of knowing what influence child care had on any given child.

Previous NLSCY analyses which have been conducted appropriately have clearly demonstrated the positive impacts of quality child care programs on children’s
levels of school readiness.

Perhaps the most consistent finding in the child care literature is that it is the quality of the child care arrangement that is the most powerful predictor of child development. Yet the NBER report does not include any data on the quality of the child care environments in which the children participate. In short, then, this report does not study children in child care, nor does it consider any data at all about the quality of child care. These two factors alone mean that this research cannot be taken seriously in the continuing discussion on child care in Canada.
Rest of the response here

http://www.earlylearning.ubc.ca/docu...inMilligan.pdf

Quote:
The authors are faculty members at the University of British Columbia. Dr. Hertzman is Director of the Human Early Learning Partnership (HELP) an interdisciplinary early child development research institute
based at UBC. Dr. Goelman is Associate Director of HELP and Dr. Kershaw is in the Faculty of Graduate Studies at UBC and is a faculty research affiliate in HELP.
Like the earlier idiotic report on schools from the Fraser Institute isn't it passing strange an economist , not a specialist in the field under study, authors the report and that CD Howe should start trumpeting a US report at this time.

Ideology masquerading as science.

•••

Like other civilized nations early childcare is an extension of the educational system that benefits all of society and it has been shown time and again the benefits to the children and society in all manner of ways.
Like education, whether you have a child or not, it's part of the cost of the social structure - your education was free, your parents and others childless also paid.......pass it on.
__________________
In Australia and the web site is out of date.
Lots of good deals on Retinas, previous high end MacPros and current MacPro 6 core bundles in stock. macdoc@macdoc.com
MacDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 03:35 PM   #46
Honourable Citizen
 
Beej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loafer
This caught my eye, I will read the rest of it once I get this off my chest...

guytoronto,
You should pay for my child's daycare because in 30 years time he'll be paying for you to get your garbage emptied when you're retired and living the life.
So it's a pyramid scheme? Not really. I think there should be subsidies because there are many benefits, like with higher education, but not full subsidies. Maybe half/half, targetted for higher ratios for low-income groups and lower ratios for high income.
Beej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 03:55 PM   #47
Full Citizen
 
marrmoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: T.O
Posts: 246
As the director of a not-for-profit childcare organization I have enjoyed reading the different viewpoints. I will be short and sweet with my input.

A national childcare system that is fully accessible to all Canadians should be as important as our current education system. After all we are not talking about babysitting. We are talking about an Early Learning and Care System. Regulated and licensed. Take the opportunity to visit your local regulated non-profit childcare centre and experience the difference in care, philosophy and learning opportunities. Expensive, yes but the children in our country are worth the investment.
I would be delighted to take the opportunity to offer anyone a tour of our eight centres.

Rest assured the references to childcare is babysitting or something a neighbour could easily do would stop.
__________________
marrmoo<br /><br />"If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."<br />Vince Lombardi
marrmoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 03:56 PM   #48
Honourable Citizen
 
JumboJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oakville
Posts: 2,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by da_jonesy
Are those words to live by? So what of the 14 year old girl who gets knocked because she doesn't know any better? Is she out on the street?
The law thinks of 14 year olds as capable of comprehending consequences of their actions, why is it a stretch for getting pregnant. "Don't know any better" is not an excuse. If you can't afford to raise the child then the child should go to a family that would be able to. And not have to relie on the system for the means to raise your child. Low income housing and welfare is not the way for a child to be raised.
__________________
If things were different, they wouldn't be the same.
JumboJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 04:02 PM   #49
Assured Advertiser
Honourable Citizen
 
MacDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Planet Earth.....on FASTER boil :-(
Posts: 30,836
MarMoo ......shout it out.

Quote:
A national childcare system that is fully accessible to all Canadians should be as important as our current education system.
__________________
In Australia and the web site is out of date.
Lots of good deals on Retinas, previous high end MacPros and current MacPro 6 core bundles in stock. macdoc@macdoc.com
MacDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #50
Honourable Citizen
 
da_jonesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grimsby, ON
Posts: 3,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboJones
The law thinks of 14 year olds as capable of comprehending consequences of their actions, why is it a stretch for getting pregnant. "Don't know any better" is not an excuse. If you can't afford to raise the child then the child should go to a family that would be able to. And not have to relie on the system for the means to raise your child. Low income housing and welfare is not the way for a child to be raised.

Thank god the system isn't run by people like you. Thankfully the system is starting to understand that people make mistakes... that the results of those mistakes cannot be easily avoided.

My wife teaches a special program a a high school in St.Catharines. Her only students are teen moms and teen moms to be. Rather than tossing them on to the street to fend for themselves (as Jumbo would have us do), they are given the chance to finnish their high school. In this way they are given the opportunity to make something better for themselves and their children.

The only way these kids are capable of making something better for themselves is by providing childcare so they can study and do their lessons.

People like Jumbo would think that tossing people to the wolves would solve our problems... that WAS the status quo, and how did that work out for people? Drive desperate people to even more desperate solutions... forcing people to choose crime and prostitution as the only way to bring in income. At least their are more civilized means of assisting people.

Are there people who abuse the system? Sure there are, but there are checks and balances in place to sniff out fraudulent abuse of the system. Simply cutting off assistance is NOT a solution.
da_jonesy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rich oil companies get richer MACSPECTRUM Everything Else, eh! 3 Feb 14th, 2006 06:35 PM
Budget predictions used to be jwoodget Everything Else, eh! 39 Mar 2nd, 2005 04:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:31 AM.



Copyright 1999 - 2012, ehMac.ca All rights reserved. ehMac is not affiliated with Apple Inc. Mac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, Apple TV are trademarks of Apple Inc. Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2

Tribe.ca: Urban living in Toronto!