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Old Jan 30th, 2006, 02:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Solution: Register as an option, and get your name on the ballot. Vote for yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBiBooker
Isn't there a cost to register? Also, don't you have to get a nomination list or some jazz? Sounds like a lot of work to voice one's frustration on voting day.
Nobody ever said democracy was easy or cheap.

If you wait until election day to vote your frustration, you've waited too long. The campaign was 77 days long.
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 02:54 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by guytoronto
The I'm all for amending the act to make it unlawful to willfully cause a ballot to become spoiled.
You're a bully. That's exactly what Canada needs: an even less responsive voting process. Perhaps you'd like to recommend armed guards at every polling station to mete out punishment on the spot?

The head of Elections Canada has recommended that the voting process allow for declined votes. I'm simply giving him more ammunition to push for the change.

link: http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?...only=false#2.2

1.2.2 Option to Decline Ballot

There is a growing perception among some of Canadaĺs electorate that there should be a way in which an elector can register his or her dissatisfaction with the political process by declining his or her ballot. The Canada Elections Act currently does not provide any authority for that to be done.17

In order to remain vital and meaningful, the vote must remain responsive to the needs of all Canadians. The time may have come to allow an elector a formal means of expressing dissatisfaction with the political system in a manner that is not only peaceful, but is meaningful as well. Such a change at the federal level would mirror similar innovations that have taken place in a number of provinces: Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba, Nova Scotia and the Yukon ľ all of which have provisions in their electoral statutes for ballots to be declined and of which Manitobaĺs may serve as a model.18

Recommendation: The Canada Elections Act should be amended to provide for the means for a ballot to be declined, recorded and reported as such in the official ballot results and which respects the principle of the secrecy of the vote.


Why didn't the governing Liberals change the law to meet Elections Canada's recommendation? Maybe because the current system already benefits them unfairly? (duh!!!)
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 03:15 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by guytoronto
Solution: Register as an option, and get your name on the ballot. Vote for yourself.
Gimme a break! Not everyone can quit their job to run for office. (I am a federal employee, so I cannot do both.)

Can you imagine someone saying: "Don't like the medical system? Then become a doctor yourself!" Consider similar questions about lawyers, police officers, real estate agents, and you quickly see the absurdity of the recommendation.

The Chief Electoral Officer of Canada has recommended the system be changed. I am giving him everything I can - my only vote - if he needs supporting evidence in a future submission to our government.

Don't lecture me on "whining" or "pissing and moaning" when I made a tremendous peace-time sacrifice. Far from "wasting my ballot," I did the most constructive thing I could do with it.

Voting for the "least offensive" candidate is an offense against democracy itself.

I couldn't vote Liberal: they needed to be punished for their fear-mongering campaign, for their arrogance, and for their corruption. Mr Martin, can you say "flags of convienience?" I would never vote for a man who runs his own company like that. I could never vote for a party that thinks Martin is either ethical or a patriot.

I couldn't vote Conservative: they put ZERO interest into my riding. They sent out ONE pamphlet to my door the day before the election. They didn't even have a scrutineer at my polling station. If they don't bother to campaign in my riding, how can I expect them to represent me in Ottawa?

I couldn't vote NDP or Green or anything else. I actually have political beliefs that I won't betray.

Enough's enough.
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 03:52 PM   #34
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Tel me who would care if you declined your ballot.

Do you think any of the major political parties would?

Do you think they will dramatically alter their platforms to meet your agenda?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
I actually have political beliefs that I won't betray.
Does that mean you would never vote for a candidate unless they met your exacting criteria of an ideal representative.

Or do you even care about the local candidate? Are you more interested in the political party?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
I couldn't vote Liberal...I couldn't vote Conservative:...I couldn't vote NDP or Green or anything else.
It sounds like no political party can meet your expectation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
I couldn't vote Conservative: they put ZERO interest into my riding. They sent out ONE pamphlet to my door the day before the election. They didn't even have a scrutineer at my polling station. If they don't bother to campaign in my riding, how can I expect them to represent me in Ottawa?
Do you know the reasons yours local Conservative candidate didn't get to your door? Maybe he was as fed up with the system as you where. Maybe he scrounged together a few dollars to put his name on the ballot. Maybe all he could really afford was one flyer in your mailbox. Maybe it's not the politicians job to sell themselves to you. Maybe it's your job to analyze all the candidates and choose the best one for the job.

Voting isn't about what party has the flashiest slogan or the biggest signs. It's about who will do the best job. You are the job interviewer. They are the interviewees. If you didn't like any of the resumes on your desk, you needed to actively get out there and find the best person for the job.

Like it or not, somebody is getting the job. Throwing up your arms and saying all the candidates are crap is a cop-out. "None Of The Above" is a cop-out as well. It's the lazy-man's choice for not doing anything about it.
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 03:58 PM   #35
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i reiterate that if the none of the above got the most votes no MP should go to Ottawa
perhaps that might train politicians to think more of the people they represent

with voter turnount declining it's a symptom of disbelief in our political system and by extension somewhat our version of democracy

i am sure the political parties don't want to be "party" to this
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 03:59 PM   #36
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You want to me to believe you made an intelligent choice by declining this vote? Tell me what was wrong with every single candidate in your riding.

Thom Chapman (Green Party of Canada)
Olivia Chow (New Democratic Party)
Sam Goldstein (Conservative Party of Canada)
Asif Hossain (Progressive Canadian Party)
Tony Ianno (Liberal Party of Canada)
Nick Lin (Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada)
John Riddell (Canadian Action Party)
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 04:04 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by MACSPECTRUM
i reiterate that if the none of the above got the most votes no MP should go to Ottawa
So do we run a government with no local representation?

This is absolutely absurd. We live in the MTV society, where everyone has to be spoon-fed opinions. If it isn't on special, with big golden arches, with a kiddie toy in the bag, it probably isn't good enough.

How do you expect an independent candidate, with solid ideas and ideals, and a low budget to ever get to Ottawa?

What would this country do under your system if "None Of The Above" won in every riding? Who runs the country?

Maybe we could just waste a few million more dollars hoping for a better result.
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 04:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Tel me who would care if you declined your ballot.
Uh, the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Do you think any of the major political parties would?
I can't read their minds. Can you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Do you think they will dramatically alter their platforms to meet your agenda?
All I want is corruption-free and some local interest. Hardly "dramatic."

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Does that mean you would never vote for a candidate unless they met your exacting criteria of an ideal representative.
Not ideal. Corruption-free and local interest. That's not "ideal." That's a barely acceptable minimum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Or do you even care about the local candidate? Are you more interested in the political party?
I care about both. This is not an either/or circumstance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
It sounds like no political party can meet your expectation.
Not lately, which is sad considering how little I expect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Do you know the reasons yours local Conservative candidate didn't get to your door? Maybe he was as fed up with the system as you where. Maybe he scrounged together a few dollars to put his name on the ballot. Maybe all he could really afford was one flyer in your mailbox. Maybe it's not the politicians job to sell themselves to you. Maybe it's your job to analyze all the candidates and choose the best one for the job.
Maybe you're really reaching. Maybe you like making excuses for the Tories. Maybe it will rain tomorrow. Maybe pink unicorns live on the third moon of Jupiter. Who can really say?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Voting isn't about what party has the flashiest slogan or the biggest signs.
Didn't say it was. I hate campaign signs and slogans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
It's about who will do the best job. You are the job interviewer. They are the interviewees. If you didn't like any of the resumes on your desk, you needed to actively get out there and find the best person for the job.
Your "analogy" is high non-analogous. By the time I identified the ineptitude of the available applicants it was too late to have more sign up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guytoronto
Like it or not, somebody is getting the job. Throwing up your arms and saying all the candidates are crap is a cop-out. "None Of The Above" is a cop-out as well. It's the lazy-man's choice for not doing anything about it.
I didn't throw up my arms. I made the best possible contribution to the electoral system as a whole, as opposed to spiting in my own face. And blindly defending the system as you do is the cop-out.
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 04:28 PM   #39
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I didn't throw up my arms. I made the best possible contribution to the electoral system as a whole, as opposed to spiting in my own face. And blindly defending the system as you do is the cop-out.
I don't blindly defend our system. There where decent candidates in all the ridings.

You say you made the best possible contribution by writing "DECLINE" on a ballot.

I would like to know if you personally spoke to any of the candidates in your riding, or stepped into any of the riding offices.
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Old Jan 31st, 2006, 04:47 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACSPECTRUM
i reiterate that if the none of the above got the most votes no MP should go to Ottawa
perhaps that might train politicians to think more of the people they represent
Interesting idea.
With that approach we would have a 121 member parliament and neither Paul Martin nor Jack Layton would have made it.
24 Bloc
54 Cons
37 Lib
6 NDP
With the help of Excel, here is the list of the 121 members sorted by party - last number is the percentage of votes.
Looked good on the spreadsheet

Asselin Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 18506 51
Bachand Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 28070 54
Bigras Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 29336 56
Bourgeois Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 30197 59.2
Cardin Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 27185 52.2
Cr═te Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 24057 52.4
Deschamps Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 28207 53.8
Duceppe Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 26773 54.7
Freeman Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 28274 51.4
Gaudet Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 34873 62.2
Guay Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 27789 59.1
Laframboise Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 27760 52
Lalonde Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 29368 60.5
Lavall╚e Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 26509 50.3
Lemay Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 24637 52.3
Lessard Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 33703 54.6
Loubier Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 27838 56
Malo Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 30250 57.4
M╚nard Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 27638 50.9
Paquette Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 28630 54
Perron Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 26272 53.9
Plamondon Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 27742 55.9
Sauvageau Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 34960 62.4
St-Hilaire Bloc Qu╚b╚cois 27425 55.2
Abbott Conservative 22171 54.3
Ablonczy Conservative 37815 68.5
Ambrose Conservative 38826 66.8
Anders Conservative 38120 58.8
Anderson Conservative 19935 66.5
Benoit Conservative 37934 74.2
Bernier Conservative 36915 67
Blackburn Conservative 27262 51.9
Breitkreuz Conservative 20736 63.5
Brown Conservative 28462 54.6
Calkins Conservative 35846 75.2
Casey Conservative 22439 52
Casson Conservative 35060 67.3
Chong Conservative 27907 50.7
Day Conservative 25278 50.2
Epp Conservative 34740 64
Fast Conservative 29830 63.3
Fitzpatrick Conservative 17271 54.4
Gallant Conservative 29992 57.7
Goldring Conservative 25086 50.1
Gourde Conservative 28236 54.3
Hanger Conservative 27169 64.9
Harper Conservative 41549 72.4
Hill Conservative 22412 59.9
Jean Conservative 20400 64.7
Kenney Conservative 44987 75.2
Komarnicki Conservative 19158 62.4
Lake Conservative 27191 58.6
Lauzon Conservative 28014 54.7
Manning Conservative 18996 51.6
Mark Conservative 20084 59.1
Menzies Conservative 37534 75.5
Merrifield Conservative 30643 71.2
Mills Conservative 38385 75.7
Obhrai Conservative 26766 67.1
O'Connor Conservative 38790 56
Pallister Conservative 25719 69.8
Poilievre Conservative 39512 55
Prentice Conservative 31048 55.9
Rajotte Conservative 33764 60.5
Reid Conservative 30367 51.1
Richardson Conservative 30213 55.4
Ritz Conservative 16491 54
Solberg Conservative 35844 79.7
Sorenson Conservative 43210 82.6
Storseth Conservative 29698 68.2
Strahl Conservative 26842 56
Thompson Conservative 18155 54.8
Toews Conservative 25198 65.7
Tweed Conservative 20181 54.4
Verner Conservative 28606 57.7
Warawa Conservative 28577 52.6
Warkentin Conservative 27785 57
Williams Conservative 34993 59.7
Bains Liberal 27409 54
Bennett Liberal 29295 50.3
Bevilacqua Liberal 36925 59.5
Byrne Liberal 17196 52.9
Cannis Liberal 23332 55.4
Cotler Liberal 22457 65.3
Cullen Liberal 22195 61.6
Cuzner Liberal 21424 53.2
Dion Liberal 25412 59.8
Dryden Liberal 22468 52.7
Easter Liberal 9679 50.2
Godfrey Liberal 28709 53.4
Goodale Liberal 20666 51.8
Graham Liberal 30874 52.2
Guarnieri Liberal 23530 51.7
Kadis Liberal 29934 53.1
Karygiannis Liberal 28099 62.7
Lee Liberal 30281 65.6
MacAulay Liberal 11542 56.2
Malhi Liberal 25349 50.7
McCallum Liberal 32769 61.9
McGuire Liberal 10287 53.2
McKay Liberal 21875 53.3
McTeague Liberal 27720 52.5
Murphy Liberal 9586 50.2
Pacetti Liberal 23705 57.2
Patry Liberal 24433 51.1
Peterson Liberal 30713 55.3
Ratansi Liberal 23514 54
Russell Liberal 5737 50.2
Sgro Liberal 21418 63.8
Silva Liberal 20172 51.9
Simms Liberal 19853 52
Tonks Liberal 22871 57.1
Volpe Liberal 26041 52
Wilfert Liberal 27906 53.7
Wrzesnewskyj Liberal 29255 52.2
Angus N.D.P. 19195 50.6
Blaikie N.D.P. 16967 50.8
Christopherson N.D.P. 24503 51.3
Davies N.D.P. 23927 56.6
Stoffer N.D.P. 22848 52.9
Wasylycia-Leis N.D.P. 15582 57.2
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