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Old Nov 28th, 2005, 08:55 PM   #1
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I'm finished supporting the Liberals

Looks like I am NOT going to be voting Liberal this time out.
The very fishy parachuting in of Michael Ignatieff into my old riding reeks of the type of "sense of entitlement" that makes me ill.

Ignatieff is pro Iraq-war. Anti-Ukrainian as per his own writings. Has no issues with other candidates in his riding being unfarily "shut out."

The Executive of the Etobicoke-Lakeshore Federal Liberal Riding Association learned late on Friday, November 25, 2006 that their Member of Parliament, Jean Augustine, has resigned her seat and that Ignatieff is to be parachuted in as the sole, uncontested candidate in a surprise nomination meeting scheduled for December 1, 2005. The speed with which the nomination meeting was called and the abridgement of all timelines suggests that the Liberal Party is discouraging all other contenders.

Despite the abridgement of time, and the difficult nomination filing requirements, two candidates were in fact able to prepare and submit the required forms, including police and credit checks, as well as the required 30 signatures in support of their nominations.
The two candidates delivered their nomination documents to Liberal Party headquarters in Toronto, only to find that the office was locked before the 5:00 p.m. filing deadline. Liberal party staffers could be seen through the second storey windows but they refused to answer repeated knocking on the doors and phone calls to the office.


I can no longer "hold my nose" and vote Liberal.

This article kind of sums it up.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/National/

From Igantieff's book;


"I feel like declaring my basic prejudices on arrival. Isn't nationalism just an exercise in kitsch, in fervent emotional insincerity? Especially so in Ukraine. It has been part of Russia for centuries."
- from Blood & Belonging (p.80) by Michael Ignatieff

"I have reasons to take Ukraine seriously indeed. But to be honest, I'm having trouble. Ukrainian independence conjures up images of embroidered peasant shirts, the nasal while of ethnic instruments, phoney Cossacks in cloaks and boots, nasti- ant-Semites."
- from Blood & Belonging (p.79) by Michael Ignatieff

"From my childhood in Canada, I remember expatriate Ukrainian nationalists demonstrating in the snow outside ballet performances by the Bolshoi in Toronto. 'Free the captive nations!' they chanted. In 1960, they seemed strange and pathetic, chanting in the snow, haranguing people who just wanted to see ballet and to hell with the politics. They seemd fanatical too, unreasonable. Hadn't they looked at the map? How did they think Ukraine could ever be free?"
- from Blood & Belonging (p.79) by Michael Ignatieff

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Old Nov 28th, 2005, 09:00 PM   #2
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Okay. So who are you going to vote for, d'yathink?
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Old Nov 28th, 2005, 09:02 PM   #3
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What I find ironic is up at the top where the ads are there is an ad for LiberalDating . Just struck me funny now to see Macspectrum no longer voting "that way".
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Old Nov 28th, 2005, 09:12 PM   #4
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i never voted here before, and won't be doing it for a while (not a canadian citizen yet), but my thoughts are that the conservatives are not better than the liberals( Harper IS a moron, Martin is a little on the dumb side, IMHO), but i find that having the liberals on check by a strong opposition, or vice-versa, is the best alternative; and that is going to be the case, whatever any of you vote, so toss your valot up in the air, pick one, there you go.
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Old Nov 28th, 2005, 09:19 PM   #5
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Growing up in Manitoba, I had many friends with Ukranian heritage, but I can't condemn Igantieff's thoughts. The G&M article makes reference from Igantieff that the quotes were taken out of context. I'd tend to want to read the chapter in his book before making a swift condemnation of Igantieff.

How this guy became the Liberal representative for Etobicoke however, is a different issue entirely. It sounds that he spent much of his time in the United States working at a prestigious school. Reading some of the comments at the end of the article, it also seems that there was some effort to keep his name out of the running (?)
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Old Nov 28th, 2005, 11:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACSPECTRUM
Looks like I am NOT going to be voting Liberal this time out.
The very fishy parachuting in of Michael Ignatieff into my old riding reeks of the type of "sense of entitlement" that makes me ill.

Ignatieff is pro Iraq-war. Anti-Ukrainian as per his own writings. Has no issues with other candidates in his riding being unfarily "shut out."

The Executive of the Etobicoke-Lakeshore Federal Liberal Riding Association learned late on Friday, November 25, 2006 that their Member of Parliament, Jean Augustine, has resigned her seat and that Ignatieff is to be parachuted in as the sole, uncontested candidate in a surprise nomination meeting scheduled for December 1, 2005. The speed with which the nomination meeting was called and the abridgement of all timelines suggests that the Liberal Party is discouraging all other contenders.

Despite the abridgement of time, and the difficult nomination filing requirements, two candidates were in fact able to prepare and submit the required forms, including police and credit checks, as well as the required 30 signatures in support of their nominations.
The two candidates delivered their nomination documents to Liberal Party headquarters in Toronto, only to find that the office was locked before the 5:00 p.m. filing deadline. Liberal party staffers could be seen through the second storey windows but they refused to answer repeated knocking on the doors and phone calls to the office.


I can no longer "hold my nose" and vote Liberal.

This article kind of sums it up.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/National/

From Igantieff's book;


"I feel like declaring my basic prejudices on arrival. Isn't nationalism just an exercise in kitsch, in fervent emotional insincerity? Especially so in Ukraine. It has been part of Russia for centuries."
- from Blood & Belonging (p.80) by Michael Ignatieff

"I have reasons to take Ukraine seriously indeed. But to be honest, I'm having trouble. Ukrainian independence conjures up images of embroidered peasant shirts, the nasal while of ethnic instruments, phoney Cossacks in cloaks and boots, nasti- ant-Semites."
- from Blood & Belonging (p.79) by Michael Ignatieff

"From my childhood in Canada, I remember expatriate Ukrainian nationalists demonstrating in the snow outside ballet performances by the Bolshoi in Toronto. 'Free the captive nations!' they chanted. In 1960, they seemed strange and pathetic, chanting in the snow, haranguing people who just wanted to see ballet and to hell with the politics. They seemd fanatical too, unreasonable. Hadn't they looked at the map? How did they think Ukraine could ever be free?"
- from Blood & Belonging (p.79) by Michael Ignatieff


Michael, my old friend...

I am slightly shocked that you have decided to "go off the reservation" and not support the Federal Liberals, this time around. You were always one of the stalwarts. The faithful. No matter WHAT they did...no matter how BAD it got...you were still solidly behind the Martin/Chretien Liberals all the way.


You are (obviously) a very bright guy....and I always held out faint hope that you would eventually see that the current version of the Martin/Chretien Liberals are deeply corrupt and beyond redemption...but, still, I am a bit surprised....


Nevertheless, I will take this opportunity to welcome you out of the darkness and into the light.

And...whatever new party you decide to cast your vote for...I think that you will find a feeling of sudden and unexpected freedom in the very act of it. Personal empowerment, on a base scale. Big change from the old slavish party line. Good feelings and big smiles come from this sort of personal enlightenment.

Honest.
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Old Nov 28th, 2005, 11:54 PM   #7
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Last edited by HowEver; Nov 9th, 2008 at 10:12 PM.
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Old Nov 29th, 2005, 12:58 AM   #8
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowEver
In or out of context, it isn't hard to see how Ignatieff is being unfairly targeted as anti-anything based on the quotations cited. Poor scholarship or rush to judgement without facts?

Oh, I forgot, the people complaining that he is anti-Ukraine are those who tried to file their nomination papers at the last minute and were "shut out." Why would they wait for 20 minutes before 5:00 on a Friday to file? Makes you wonder how seriously they take this process.
from today's TO Star
"context" seems pretty clear to me

They cited the following passage in Ignatieff's book: "My difficulty in taking Ukraine seriously goes deeper than just my cosmopolitan suspicion of nationalists everywhere. Somewhere inside I'm also what Ukrainians would call a great Russian and there is just a trace of old Russian disdain for these little Russians."

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968793972154
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Old Nov 29th, 2005, 01:03 AM   #9
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Has anybody here got a copy of the book to check out the chapter in question? I can still see how that quote could be out of context, but have not read the 'context'.
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Old Nov 29th, 2005, 01:10 AM   #10
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I'm totally against hating any one party based on a single incident or statement. It's wayy too easy to be wrong about these things. And then vote wrong...while angry about something that may or may not have been said or done.

However...when you are talking about the Martin/ Chretien liberals....you will have a whole rolodex chock FULL of very GOOD and valid reasons to turf them out of power. Quickly and descisively.

Take your pick. There's enough for everyone, in there. More than enough. WAYYYY more than enough, actually...

Trust me on this.
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