My priorities are:
1. To have my cake;
2. To eat it too.
Seriously, it would be refreshing if any party advocating improving health care, education, etc. would have the balls to admit that these services cost money. The money has to come from somewhere, and it sure doesn't come from tax cuts.
The federal government doesn't bake this cake. They only provide a small percentage of funding for health care. The feds collect 2/3rds of income tax, but only deliver 1/3rd of the services.
There is nothing hypocritical about wanted to address the health care issue while at the same time wanting federal tax cuts.
The federal government doesn't bake this cake. They only provide a small percentage of funding for health care.
The Federal government contributes about 40% to health care, when you include direct transfers, equalization payments and public health spending. You can look it up.
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Originally Posted by Vandave
The feds collect 2/3rds of income tax, but only deliver 1/3rd of the services.
The first part is sort of true (depending on where one lives), the second part is misleading. It's like having a discussion about the military and saying the provinces collect 1/3 of the taxes and provide no services at all.
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Originally Posted by Vandave
There is nothing hypocritical about wanted to address the health care issue while at the same time wanting federal tax cuts.
I suppose we could cut federal support elsewhere, like education or the environment, but you want those enhanced too.
Health care costs money and the money has to come from somewhere. If you are serious about improving it, you shouldn't be looking for more tax cuts. It's a fantasy to think you can have both.
Beyond the core programs, there are billions of dollars of more discretionary spending. There is money there for healthcare, tax cuts and education. Note that since 2000 we have got tax cuts and more healthcare spending (and loads of other stuff). It is not a question of all or nothing. What's needed, what isn't and what can be done better?
Health care costs money and the money has to come from somewhere. If you are serious about improving it, you shouldn't be looking for more tax cuts. It's a fantasy to think you can have both.
We have a fiscal surplus right now and have had one for the last 5 or 6 years. That means the government is taxing us more than they are spending. If we keep spending the same, there is plenty of room for tax cuts.
Improving Health Care isn't just about throwing money at it. We have tried that and it hasn't worked. We have to work within the current budget and think of more innovative ways of dealing with Health Care. We have to get past this concept that money can solve all our societal problems. A good example of this is the situation of Natives in our country. We have thrown massive amounts of money at the problem, yet by all measures Natives are living in third world conditions. Should we keep throwing good money after bad? Or is it time to rethink how we are doing things in this country?
Beyond the core programs, there are billions of dollars of more discretionary spending. There is money there for healthcare, tax cuts and education. Note that since 2000 we have got tax cuts and more healthcare spending (and loads of other stuff). It is not a question of all or nothing. What's needed, what isn't and what can be done better?
This is a nice myth.
- The Federal government had large spending cuts while Martin was finance minister;
- We have been enjoying a booming economy;
- Health spending is increasing, and needs to increase substantially, just to keep pace with an aging population.
- discretionary spending? It's ALL discretionary. What would you cut?
The kind of leader I want is one who will get the population to come down to earth.
The Liberals have already targetted a few billion in cuts and improved efficiency, and they have a very loose definition what programs are needed.
There is more, and it's not a myth. Not all of it is from efficiency gains. Much would be from choosing where the money should go. Subsidies or health care or tax cuts? There are many choices to make and the current set of choices is by no means ideal (or well known) to all people. The country hasn't had a meaningful discussion because when anybody mentions cuts, many fly off the handle.
Go through the Federal budget, and look at where the money goes. Do you think it's spent as efficiently as it could be? Do you think its allocated to your priorities for the country? It's not a nice myth, and billions can be shifted in a down to earth manner. Also, it's not all discretionary, most of the $180B is direct transfers.
Some people think taxes should be the first option to cover increased health care spending, but many don't agree. There is more than one option.
1. Education, to the extent that the Feds have any say
2. health care - particularly a declaration of clear cut standards and resources to meet them
3. restructuring of middle and lower income tax to make it simpler and in some cases lower
4. A much clearer and stronger approach to a cleaner environment
5. national sovereignty
6. A more robust pusuit of Free Trade
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I agree with Martin, I think free trade is a good way to help with poverty. Look at the progress of China and India in the last 20 years, due to free trade policies. Now imagine 20 years into the future. These countries wouldn't be where they are without trade.
Agreed.
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"Words are sacred. They deserve respect. If you get the right ones in the right order, you can nudge the world a little." Tom Stoppard
“No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader".
Robert Frost
We have a fiscal surplus right now and have had one for the last 5 or 6 years. That means the government is taxing us more than they are spending. If we keep spending the same, there is plenty of room for tax cuts.
It means we have had significant spending cuts, a booming economy and have been paying down the debt. If you want things, you have to be prepared to pay for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandave
Improving Health Care isn't just about throwing money at it. We have tried that and it hasn't worked. We have to work within the current budget and think of more innovative ways of dealing with Health Care. We have to get past this concept that money can solve all our societal problems.
This "throwing money" line is a fairy tale. Health care costs a ton of money. Costs are going up and will continue to go up - the population is aging, living longer, and requiring more health care services as a consequence. If you want good health care, you have to pay for good health care.
If you want tax cuts, you pay for that another way. In Ontario, we have paid for idiotic tax cuts by the Harrisites by (among other things) a Toronto transit system that is being strangled to death, homelessness, effective elimination of provincial water inspection (that led to Walkerton), etc, The kicker was increased property taxes to pay for for the cost of services the Province downloaded to the cities and eliminated from its own budget.
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